I would absolutely pay for the beta (if i knew I wouldn't get some silly perma IP ban from blizzard because it's against their terms and conditions or something silly)
The reason why is simple.... I love diablo, that being said... I am buying the CE for 100 bucks, so whats another 10-20 to get the beta? Hell I'd pay anything reasonable
Like I said, just as a fan and diablo enthusiast, I want to play the game---BUT not having the beta when the game is released, I will have no clue what class is the best to play... because the addition of the RMA I would be able to test and find the character that I could level fastest with a party and have the potential of on release leveling up super fast, knowing how the character plays, some of the skills and how to use them in battles... essentially every one with the beta can practice and I can't because I don't have a key... so If I could pay to practice, try all the classes... by release I know exactly what to do!
With the ability of knowing exactly what class I want to play, I have the potential to make more money selling items on the RMA to make back the money I pay to get in the beta (hypothetically) So it's a no brainer to me... so probably not going to get a beta, and when the game is released I'll play all the classes and waste a ton of time finding out what I like and don't like and how good I can get with each character, and shit even have a chance to just try each character (to atleast a decent level (13)) with out the beta this is not possible to do before release obviously, and is a giant hindrance to any one who want to play competitively when the game is live
That being said, I spend hours of my days on forums, watching videos and entering contest, and using the character calculators and watching videos from mooege of skills runed, or other people like forces lets play playthroughs of the betas displaying all the newest updates from the different beta patches
and all that being said... I'm going to go with the build I want to play the most (frenzy barb) because it was my favorite character from d2, d2 LOD and I used it for ubers and PVP so I can't wait to level him up and go with that, and miss out on all the fun new classes to try and make some money
I'm not a big fan of the diablo 2 system, people were also hoarding up points and not spending them until nightmare/hell sometimes, that is not a system that works as it should.
I joined the beta yesterday and i felt that the game felt more complete then diablo 2, times have changed and the stat allocation mechanic feels outdated in my opinion.
More and more RPG are being created without stat allocation placement, if something is missing you can always pick the gear according to that.
In many situations you gimped your self in Diablo 2 in some ways, you saved up a lot of points for later use, by doing this you gimped your self until you decided to spend them, you could also put to much in a stat that become useless after a while (to much dex,energy).
I see no reason to spend time putting points my self, i can pick my skills, my runes, my gear, my sockets, gems etc... there are enough decisions i can make, so having stat allocation seems like a hassle not worth the risk of messing it up.
and don't forget about what dyes to color your gear
but seriously, I agree with you on the fact you don't gimp yourself... in D2 before the ability to respec, I would hate myself for putting any dex, and get pissed enough to entirely rebuild a character due to a few points in strength that could have been saved to throw on vitality... Before the respec, I re-built so many characters it is crazy... it contributed a bit to replayablity, but we didn't have inferno!
I think the new stat system allows for you to play and be more immerced in the game, and the lack of permanence is a nice convienence to the player (skills and stats wise) because it allows you to just play and have fun and not have to be diabolical in your picking apart of the scales to intentionally become a min-maxer...
the choice of skills will be more heavily favored and drive to find items to sell and trade in RMA... I think d3 is different for sure, but sometimes different can be good, and I think on launch day this game will be nice and polished
Well, an open beta would ruin the joy for alot of people in the sense that the server wont be able to keep up i think. Constant crashing would render it inplayable i think. Tho disregarding that, i dont think any1 would mind if every1 got an equal chance to be trying out the beta. I do think that people shouldnt be too afraid of not getting in the beta. You're not missing _that_ much really.
I think you are missing the ability to have an idea of what you want going into launch, which is huge
say for example I am going for a world first level 60 over all... if I have months to practice and experiment each character in beta, upon release I will know one character is the best for me to level up fastest and do well in what you can speculate will do well later on in the game.... not having a beta you are going in cold, and trying characters is a huge sacrifice in time that you miss out...
This example may be extreme, but take this less extreme level, for the average player.. if you know what 1 class you like from beta you can play it right at launch and not feel left out not trying the other classes, because you have already been able to level them from 1-13 in several different patches..
More relevant is for the RMA if I have an idea of the best or my favorite class I get left behind less in the race to get good gear while it is still of high value, or before value or specific affixes is known
ALL THAT BEING SAID
my original post about OB ruining the enjoyment is kind of like an aww bummer I was all excited now me winning isn't special... don't get me wrong, any chance at a beta I am going to love and play to the death
There's something to be said about both ways of doing stat points. Back in D2, there was a general formula of how to create all your characters and was rarely varied. In D3, auto stat points basically eliminates any chance of breaking your character.
The way things stand now, however, it appears that stat points seem virtually invisible. Without any need to get X more points into a category, you lose sight of how much you have. Yes, the inventory screen now lists all your stats, but there's no real point to look at it. What you have is what you've got, and there's no real way to change the outcome. Getting gear with more stat points helps, of course, but there's a difference between investing unreclaimable points and getting a chest piece with added strength. It just feels like stat points have become less tangible, if you understand my meaning.
I don't know how long it has been since you played LOD, but they changed the stat system so you could have 3 resets at akara one for each difficulty... so how does that effect your opinion on "permanence" of stats usage?
I like your point how you feel you forget you have stats so they don't feel releveant... which never occured to me but thinking about it like they kind of bugs me
the only thing that I kind of see past this with is the items giving you stats, increasing want/need for specific items (driving certain items values up for the RMH) as well as allowing for search of items to yield stats you may find as ideal or want that doesn't necisarily have to be what every one will desire (EX: I want to make a speed barb, so any thing to help this I'm hunting for)
I hate how they removed skill points because they were broken in D2. How could it not have crossed their mind that maybe they should have made the different attributes more attractive. People stacked stamina in D2 because strength and dex was mostly useless besides allowing you to wear armor. If they would have made strength increase your damage in a meaningful way there would actually be choices in the game and everyone would not just dump point into strength. Do you want to make a character that does more damage or has more survive-ability? It's a difficult choice.
Instead, they took the typical blizzard philosophy of, we failed on our first try so it's impossible to make it better. Instead, we'll remove it.
The attributes in d2 that you mentioned (strength) did add damage to attack (melee attack) but it was so low in significance and item centered that it was null, people never pumped strength for damage, because vitality was more valable for a "perfect builds" sake... now d3 has sort of flipped the script, where as before, the stats determined the gear, now the gear determines the stats...
Could they have just fixed the system to make it more viable to use energy? or to use strength outside getting gear... I think so.. but it comes down to their following, the blizz fans are insanely dedicated and will find the best mathmatical equation with stats so no matter how the balance goes, we will find the best most viable builds... I like your thought though if it could be scaled to work,
I feel they have done this with the 6 active skills... there are so many good ones to choose that you have to leave out some great skills, and all of them are viable in their own respect but not everything can be used for your "build"
That makes me miss the nephalem alter... I liked those in town, or before bosses, because it gives more of a feel to the whole 'semi-permanence' and an actual build... I am not the biggest fan of in run skill swapping, even with a cool down... but I think I'll avoid this by just getting good at using a certain build and not swap all the time mid run
If you're worried about permanently handicapping a character you can add a respec system.
Damage vs health is the best option. Dex could be damage mitigation. Energy could help with resources. If you make all the choices good choices then the player will actually have a choice. There will always be min-maxers but if you have a balanced system, most people will take different choices based on their play-style.
I agree there will always be min-maxers.. which is partially why I think this system (although it is new and un-revealed in it's fullest sense) is good thus far... upon release we could see certain affixes are the only desired affixes, and the rest get pawned for gold or dropped for their worthlessness in the items category
I think your ideas on damage vs health would make for a fun game... if we are relating to d2 LOD, a game we all know and love, I think they should eliminate mana going up with items or leveling so for example... if you are WW barb, if you put no points in mana you could only WW for a few seconds before you are incapable of doing the skill again, thus it would be relevant to balance between everything... and maybe give dex a more valuable assosciation
for example, dex does crushing blow, crit, or deadly strike, and increases block and dodge... so instead of just getting it for max block, it is scaled to as you pump it the other things get pumped making it viable to sacrifice health or mana or strength (damage) for
if all the attributes had a relevant gain then it would be a fun and interesting way to try and design a character... and min maxers would find good ways to build characters... but if glass cannon types wanted to pump dex, and go for a maybe less viable build that has high chance to crit and get super crazy damage bonuses they'd dump everything in strength and dex
all this aside... I'm a barb guy, and in d3 I like how they have done the fury system... building up your energy to spend it... so stats are taken out of it because the way the system is made... no need to dump into energy or a mana per say because you build up your fury to dump it with specific spendors... I love that system and can't wait to get a chance to try it out with the new and old class of diablo
For all of those lucky enough to win any of the recent contests beta keys, or have already been able to have at the Beta in any of the patch cycles
Would an Open Beta ruin your excitement of winning that competition??
I'm thinking, If I did win any of them, which I have not unfortunately, but if I did, then every one got in, I wouldn't feel as happy... the exlusiveness (stress testing aside) makes the beta more enjoyable to those who have it and more desired to those who don't
when reading a interview posted on Team Liquid's website... I came across a quote that really stood out to me made by Sixen
"In Diablo III, they’ve implemented a system that automatically allocates these stat points. Many people were saying that this removes character customization, which, to an extent, I suppose is true. If you wanted to render your character useless by “customizing” the stat points, you could certainly do so."
I feel this is so true, in that stats were only used in the old game to essentially "mess your character up" there was a perfect math equation almost to make a build (enough dex to max block, enough strength for gear, no energy then dump the rest in life) so all the complainers about not being able to use stats... how does this argument come into consideration
the argument I ofcourse am refrencing is the last line of the quote
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The reason why is simple.... I love diablo, that being said... I am buying the CE for 100 bucks, so whats another 10-20 to get the beta? Hell I'd pay anything reasonable
Like I said, just as a fan and diablo enthusiast, I want to play the game---BUT not having the beta when the game is released, I will have no clue what class is the best to play... because the addition of the RMA I would be able to test and find the character that I could level fastest with a party and have the potential of on release leveling up super fast, knowing how the character plays, some of the skills and how to use them in battles... essentially every one with the beta can practice and I can't because I don't have a key... so If I could pay to practice, try all the classes... by release I know exactly what to do!
With the ability of knowing exactly what class I want to play, I have the potential to make more money selling items on the RMA to make back the money I pay to get in the beta (hypothetically) So it's a no brainer to me... so probably not going to get a beta, and when the game is released I'll play all the classes and waste a ton of time finding out what I like and don't like and how good I can get with each character, and shit even have a chance to just try each character (to atleast a decent level (13)) with out the beta this is not possible to do before release obviously, and is a giant hindrance to any one who want to play competitively when the game is live
That being said, I spend hours of my days on forums, watching videos and entering contest, and using the character calculators and watching videos from mooege of skills runed, or other people like forces lets play playthroughs of the betas displaying all the newest updates from the different beta patches
and all that being said... I'm going to go with the build I want to play the most (frenzy barb) because it was my favorite character from d2, d2 LOD and I used it for ubers and PVP so I can't wait to level him up and go with that, and miss out on all the fun new classes to try and make some money
/endwhining /endrant
Cant wait for d3... and damn I hope i win a beta
0
but seriously, I agree with you on the fact you don't gimp yourself... in D2 before the ability to respec, I would hate myself for putting any dex, and get pissed enough to entirely rebuild a character due to a few points in strength that could have been saved to throw on vitality... Before the respec, I re-built so many characters it is crazy... it contributed a bit to replayablity, but we didn't have inferno!
I think the new stat system allows for you to play and be more immerced in the game, and the lack of permanence is a nice convienence to the player (skills and stats wise) because it allows you to just play and have fun and not have to be diabolical in your picking apart of the scales to intentionally become a min-maxer...
the choice of skills will be more heavily favored and drive to find items to sell and trade in RMA... I think d3 is different for sure, but sometimes different can be good, and I think on launch day this game will be nice and polished
0
say for example I am going for a world first level 60 over all... if I have months to practice and experiment each character in beta, upon release I will know one character is the best for me to level up fastest and do well in what you can speculate will do well later on in the game.... not having a beta you are going in cold, and trying characters is a huge sacrifice in time that you miss out...
This example may be extreme, but take this less extreme level, for the average player.. if you know what 1 class you like from beta you can play it right at launch and not feel left out not trying the other classes, because you have already been able to level them from 1-13 in several different patches..
More relevant is for the RMA if I have an idea of the best or my favorite class I get left behind less in the race to get good gear while it is still of high value, or before value or specific affixes is known
ALL THAT BEING SAID
my original post about OB ruining the enjoyment is kind of like an aww bummer I was all excited now me winning isn't special... don't get me wrong, any chance at a beta I am going to love and play to the death
0
I like your point how you feel you forget you have stats so they don't feel releveant... which never occured to me but thinking about it like they kind of bugs me
the only thing that I kind of see past this with is the items giving you stats, increasing want/need for specific items (driving certain items values up for the RMH) as well as allowing for search of items to yield stats you may find as ideal or want that doesn't necisarily have to be what every one will desire (EX: I want to make a speed barb, so any thing to help this I'm hunting for)
The attributes in d2 that you mentioned (strength) did add damage to attack (melee attack) but it was so low in significance and item centered that it was null, people never pumped strength for damage, because vitality was more valable for a "perfect builds" sake... now d3 has sort of flipped the script, where as before, the stats determined the gear, now the gear determines the stats...
Could they have just fixed the system to make it more viable to use energy? or to use strength outside getting gear... I think so.. but it comes down to their following, the blizz fans are insanely dedicated and will find the best mathmatical equation with stats so no matter how the balance goes, we will find the best most viable builds... I like your thought though if it could be scaled to work,
I feel they have done this with the 6 active skills... there are so many good ones to choose that you have to leave out some great skills, and all of them are viable in their own respect but not everything can be used for your "build"
That makes me miss the nephalem alter... I liked those in town, or before bosses, because it gives more of a feel to the whole 'semi-permanence' and an actual build... I am not the biggest fan of in run skill swapping, even with a cool down... but I think I'll avoid this by just getting good at using a certain build and not swap all the time mid run
I agree there will always be min-maxers.. which is partially why I think this system (although it is new and un-revealed in it's fullest sense) is good thus far... upon release we could see certain affixes are the only desired affixes, and the rest get pawned for gold or dropped for their worthlessness in the items category
I think your ideas on damage vs health would make for a fun game... if we are relating to d2 LOD, a game we all know and love, I think they should eliminate mana going up with items or leveling so for example... if you are WW barb, if you put no points in mana you could only WW for a few seconds before you are incapable of doing the skill again, thus it would be relevant to balance between everything... and maybe give dex a more valuable assosciation
for example, dex does crushing blow, crit, or deadly strike, and increases block and dodge... so instead of just getting it for max block, it is scaled to as you pump it the other things get pumped making it viable to sacrifice health or mana or strength (damage) for
if all the attributes had a relevant gain then it would be a fun and interesting way to try and design a character... and min maxers would find good ways to build characters... but if glass cannon types wanted to pump dex, and go for a maybe less viable build that has high chance to crit and get super crazy damage bonuses they'd dump everything in strength and dex
all this aside... I'm a barb guy, and in d3 I like how they have done the fury system... building up your energy to spend it... so stats are taken out of it because the way the system is made... no need to dump into energy or a mana per say because you build up your fury to dump it with specific spendors... I love that system and can't wait to get a chance to try it out with the new and old class of diablo
0
Would an Open Beta ruin your excitement of winning that competition??
I'm thinking, If I did win any of them, which I have not unfortunately, but if I did, then every one got in, I wouldn't feel as happy... the exlusiveness (stress testing aside) makes the beta more enjoyable to those who have it and more desired to those who don't
thoughts?
0
"In Diablo III, they’ve implemented a system that automatically allocates these stat points. Many people were saying that this removes character customization, which, to an extent, I suppose is true. If you wanted to render your character useless by “customizing” the stat points, you could certainly do so."
I feel this is so true, in that stats were only used in the old game to essentially "mess your character up" there was a perfect math equation almost to make a build (enough dex to max block, enough strength for gear, no energy then dump the rest in life) so all the complainers about not being able to use stats... how does this argument come into consideration
the argument I ofcourse am refrencing is the last line of the quote