It's nice to see Blizzard and I agree on something end game. I think this new Nephalem Valor system is perfect. It addresses almost all of my concerns (I'm sure I wasn't the only one) and provides a reason to not go mad switching skills as well. So, while we *might* see a certain area with more rare/champ packs at release, they now have good reason to balance that number with other areas if this becomes an issue. This should make playing through all different acts/areas - wherever EACH PLAYER prefers - viable and at the same time not leave bosses to the "one and done" bin of history.
Personally I'm hoping for EXACTLY what your second idea is: killing more rare/champ packs increases your MF *for the boss in that area.* It gives us an incentive to still kill bosses, but playing through the WHOLE area is the "best" strategy.
There will be no "sweet spots" for farming and players can't "find a way to make use of the game mechanics" because of the random component to the game that has been in it for its bloody entirety!
Whoa, while I'm making a big assumption (Blizzard won't be able to balance Inferno), I think this is a big assumption too. Players ALWAYS find ways to game the system. It's human nature. We could argue back and forth about our opinions on this, but we'll just hafta see. Personally I'd love to be proven completely and ridiculously wrong. Here's to hoping you're right!
and that is one of them. my point is a substantial percentage are not viable. I am not saying there is not a huge amount of options and builds, I am just making the point that it doesn't matter how many are mathematically possible because only a certain percentage of those are practical and I don't know how that would be calculated.
I dunno...I could see a comical use for this build (even though the passives don't go with the skills). You could use this as a distraction character in Inferno while letting the rest of your party destroy the mobs. The ultimate pacifist!
Deadly Reach + Foresight: Spirit generator that allows me to stay at least a little bit further from enemies, avoiding their immediate AoE damage and gain extra damage. Foresight + SSS = nasty. I might switch to Strike from Beyond if spirit gen is not up to par.
Dashing Strike + Way of the Falling Star: Escape skill that also allows me to root a running enemy, then follow up with Crippling Wave for extended slow. AoE too. I can always escape to a running enemy to get WAY away from whoever is wailing on me.
Breath of Heaven + Circle of Life: Allows me to group heal. The rune might be switched to Penitent Flame - we'll see if if works in PvP. If so, heck yeah!
Crippling Wave + Tsunami: Spirit generator that allows me to slow an enemy or two to help my team gang up on them. Dashing Strike (root) + Crippling Wave (slow) + Deadly Reach (hit while they run) should give me plenty of damage and spirit gen on a running enemy, to be followed up with SSS.
Mantra of Healing + Time of Need: Large area of effect heal-over-time for my team so if they are running, I can provide some distance healing before I run over and spam BoH. This would've been Boon of Protection before it was nerfed to uselessness. I chose Time of Need assuming it also provides physical resistance. If not...probably Sustenance for the extra HoT.
Seven-sided Strike + Sudden Assault: Massive targeted damage that allows me to go right where I need to. Expensive and on a long cooldown, so we'll hafta see how useful it is. I have a feeling this skill (or at least this rune) will be nerfed in PvP.
Passives The Guardian's Path: I plan on using a Diabo for the frontloaded damage and higher skill-based damage, so this is a natural choice. It should also allow me to spam my heals that much more. Exalted Soul: I those this for the deep spirit pool that will allow me to spam heals. However, if I find I'm using spirit as fast as I generate it, I'll likely switch to Near Death Experience. Guiding Light: A no-brainer since I plan on healing like mad. If I can activate this plus Deadly Reach damage bonus THEN hit with SSS, someone's probably gonna faceplant. Or at least crap their pants.
Yep, but a good one I think. Just look at D2, or pretty much any MMORPG out there. Heck, single player games aren't immune either. There was a bug in Mass Effect 1 where you could get virtually unlimited XP to level up to max in about an hour, instead of ~80 hours. Slightly different situation, but it's the same general theme.
Personally, I'm wondering how they're going to make act 1 as hard as the rest of the acts. The mobs in Act I are pretty simple and because of that, they aren't very difficult. Sure you can give them a million hit points and have them 1 shot you, but that's not very fun.
This, a million times. That's exactly my point! As great as the beta looks, I don't want Inferno to be easiest in Act 1.
Anything lower than that is "restricted." I.E. baseline is running the game from start to finish. If you want to play any other way you have -50% MF, even if it's exactly the same MF as they would have had without the incentive. It's just how min/maxers think, and I don't disagree with that. I know if there was +50% to MF for running the same act over and over again I'd be pissed.
I can understand that, because I'd be one of those people. Maybe a bonus to MF isn't the right way to go about introducing an incentive to play different areas. Maybe +50% (max) is too much.
Maybe there should only be a small 10-20% MF bonus on the final boss (or midway boss as well, like the Skeleton King) of the Act if you progress through the quests. And before anyone says it, yes I know: Blizzard doesn't want boss runs to be the end-all be-all of D3 and I completely agree. Wholeheartedly.
Maybe they could allow you to continue gaining XP at a VERY slow rate after 60 and allow you to "buy" say, an hour's worth of 10-20% extra MF for Y amount of XP. Quests give XP...you can see where I'm going with that. You wouldn't have to do the quests, but it would provide a small incentive.
Obviously we're all just going to have to wait and see. If Blizzard is able to balance things right and make every area of Inferno equally difficult and rewarding, GREAT! There will be no one more pleased than I. But, shrug, I have my doubts.
On a slightly different note, who else is looking forward to the Jar of Souls quest on Inferno?!? I finally hit a 100 kill Massacre on a monk just recently. Took me long enough.
1. you treid inferno level?
2. You played it and deemd it Easy....
othervise...
your just another loudmouth who dont know what he talks about creating half-flame topic posts
Sigh. So much hostility. No, I'm not trying to create a flame post. Far from it. That's why I'm not going to respond in kind. That whole eons-old axiom about arguing on the internet...
Read my post #20 to see where I'm coming from. If you disagree, that's fine! Tell me why. Let's keep it civil.
They've stated plenty of times that, if they notice there's an area in inferno where almost everybody is farming, they'll tweak it so it's no longer THAT easy, making people look for a different area, or just making it harder to still farm that same spot...
Ahh, I hadn't seen that in any official post. If so, great! That's exactly what I want to see.
I gotta admit, I'm surprised at the amount of hostility people have to some system of incentive to play various areas of the game (but NOT limit you!). But like the previous poster said, play the game your way! And, for those doubting that Inferno will become at least somewhat easier than "You Will Die," just name ANY MORPG (not neccesarily massive) with a "hard" area: with enough time and experimentation, people almost always figure out a way to beat the system. I'm sure we'll see some strategy a few months after release of "take X classes of Y builds and you can rain death and destruction on Inferno instead of vice versa." Maybe not. I hope not. But I doubt it.
Wow who pissed in your cornflakes this morning? I didn't say I didn't like what Blizzard is doing - quite the opposite. I'm GLAD they're trying to encourage people to not just do the equivalent of Baal runs. Baal runs were boring. What I am saying is that unless the entirety of the game is completely balanced such that all areas are of similar difficulty on Inferno, it's likely there'll be the equivalent of Baal runs unless there's an incentive to not run the same area multiple times. That's the extent of my post. The rest was asking for constructive feedback on that general theme, not a drive-by posting. Oh, and is two paragraphs too much? Must be No Child Left Behind...
And that is if Blizzard doesn't BUFF the Inferno monsters. My guess is when a character can easily run Inferno by themselves, Blizzard is going to buff Inferno to make them work harder.
THIS is what I hope happens after the game has been out for a bit. There's no way they're making Inferno hard enough for those who'll figure out how to game the system.
I think everyone, including Blizzard, recognizes that players will try to find the easiest area of Inferno to run for items. I know they've done some things to try and curb that, but we all know...it's gonna happen. Personally I hope they find a good way to encourage playing through the game on Inferno difficulty, not just running the same quest over and over again.
Here's a couple of ideas
1. If you play through the game linearly on Inferno, you gain a stacking +10% magic find bonus in the next Act. Ie, if you progress to Act III this way, you'd have a 20% bonus through the entire Act. When you beat the game in Inferno, the bonus resets. Since each person's drops are separate from everyone else's, it won't matter if two people have different bonuses and are playing together. If you skipped ahead to different Act or went back to a previous Act, the bonus would not apply, period. This would encourage players to progress forward. However, there needs to be some incentive to FINISH the final Act and reset the bonus.
2. Provide a slowly regenerating bonus to each area in each Act, separate from all others. It would slowly regen up to +45% if it's not the area you've played the least and +50% if it IS the area you've played the least. That would encourage players to go through every area in every Act, but not necessarily in a linear order.
I happened to notice something today: In the beta, you must destroy the 4 pillars to gain access to Leoric. The pillars, once activated, bear a striking resemblence to the the pillars Tyreal activates in the end cinematic. Coincidence or hint?
Hopefully healing abilities won't be effective enough to be annoying in pvp.
And I certainly hope they are! Playing a healer in PvP is some of the most MP fun I've ever had. I've already figured out a nice spam healing monk! :Thumbs Up: Maybe I'll annoy you one day "soon."
I've been thinking about this myself. Based on the limited video we've seen so far of the PvP Arenas, I'm thinking D3 PvP will be very similar to Guild Wars Arenas. At least, I hope so.
I have waaaaay too much fun playing a healer in PvP. Being a BIG target makes it more fun. And, keeping people alive while at the same time frustrating the enemy because the guy they're beating on just won't DIE is eminently satisfying.
I do like the build: fire and forget AoE, stun, an escape skill, more damage for all + enemy slow, burst dmg, a get-outta-jail-free card, and a little healing. I see two major weaknesses and one smaller one:
1. The biggest weakness looks to be the high cooldowns on two of your skills, including your main damage dealer. 30 seconds is a long time to wait in PvP...and 45 seconds is intolerable. We'll have to wait and see if that 3 seconds of immunity is worth it because that skill will likely be used ONCE the whole round. I'm basing my viewpoint on the pace of the rounds from the youtube Arena videos. I'm sure things will change at release (and after!) but I'm seeing D3 as VERY fast paced. That makes cooldowns painful.
2. It looks like you have LOTS of spirit spending but your spirit gain is a little thin. Sure, Guardian's Path will help w/ a Bo, but I'm betting it won't be enough.
I think in the end 7SS will need to go: high spirit cost and long cooldown will make it rough to take into the Arena.
3. The minor weakness to the build is the 3rd passive: Seize the Initiative. I think with the diminishing returns on armor, 25% of dex won't be enough to justify the spot. I like the other two passive choices, but I think there are more valuable PvP passives: Fleet Footed; Exalted Soul (for burst damage or healing or BOTH); Near Death is painfully obvious...almost too much so; One With Everything (although if we really can't customize gear, this one will be useless), and Sixth Sense: not taking damage > reducing damage.
All that said, it looks like you'll have fun trying it out.
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Now, feel free to comment and tear apart my own "healer monk" PvP build. It's fairly off the cuff so I'm sure I'll leave out something obvious. My goal for this build is "generate spirit fast, heal faster, and stay away/alive."
Deadly Reach - long range (and hopefully safer) spirit gain with a chance of hitting multiple targets. + spirit gain rune.
Crippling Wave - AoE damage with high slow effect to prevent them from running OR prevent them from chasing me.
Dashing Strike - low spirit cost escape with no cooldown.
Breath of Heaven (25 spirit cost in game) - spammable heal.
Inner Sanctuary - escape/blocking skill. I'm very tempted to use an alabaster rune in this for the slow after the skill ends. This slow + Crippling Wave = rooted. Also, ranged allies can attack from safety in here, I think?
Mantra of Healing + Indigo = bread and butter skill. The 10 second shield for 100% damage immunity (up to 25% of life) + the 3 seconds of MAJOR life regen makes this a sick buff to cast on nearby allies getting the snot beat outta them. I would expect this one to get a cooldown placed on it, at least in PvP. If I'm lucky, that won't happen. If I'm lucky.
Passives of Guardian's Path + Bo so I can spam those skills, Exalted Soul so I can have a deep pool to spam from, and...Guiding Light IF I end up spamming Breath of Heaven. If not, NDE is a no-brainer. NDE + Mantra for the 10 second shield = back in the fight.
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It's nice to see Blizzard and I agree on something end game. I think this new Nephalem Valor system is perfect. It addresses almost all of my concerns (I'm sure I wasn't the only one) and provides a reason to not go mad switching skills as well. So, while we *might* see a certain area with more rare/champ packs at release, they now have good reason to balance that number with other areas if this becomes an issue. This should make playing through all different acts/areas - wherever EACH PLAYER prefers - viable and at the same time not leave bosses to the "one and done" bin of history.
Kudos, Blizzard. Kudos.
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I dunno...I could see a comical use for this build (even though the passives don't go with the skills). You could use this as a distraction character in Inferno while letting the rest of your party destroy the mobs.
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http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/monk#bZXVhg!Zdf!caZYca
Deadly Reach + Foresight: Spirit generator that allows me to stay at least a little bit further from enemies, avoiding their immediate AoE damage and gain extra damage. Foresight + SSS = nasty. I might switch to Strike from Beyond if spirit gen is not up to par.
Dashing Strike + Way of the Falling Star: Escape skill that also allows me to root a running enemy, then follow up with Crippling Wave for extended slow. AoE too. I can always escape to a running enemy to get WAY away from whoever is wailing on me.
Breath of Heaven + Circle of Life: Allows me to group heal. The rune might be switched to Penitent Flame - we'll see if if works in PvP. If so, heck yeah!
Crippling Wave + Tsunami: Spirit generator that allows me to slow an enemy or two to help my team gang up on them. Dashing Strike (root) + Crippling Wave (slow) + Deadly Reach (hit while they run) should give me plenty of damage and spirit gen on a running enemy, to be followed up with SSS.
Mantra of Healing + Time of Need: Large area of effect heal-over-time for my team so if they are running, I can provide some distance healing before I run over and spam BoH. This would've been Boon of Protection before it was nerfed to uselessness. I chose Time of Need assuming it also provides physical resistance. If not...probably Sustenance for the extra HoT.
Seven-sided Strike + Sudden Assault: Massive targeted damage that allows me to go right where I need to. Expensive and on a long cooldown, so we'll hafta see how useful it is. I have a feeling this skill (or at least this rune) will be nerfed in PvP.
Passives
The Guardian's Path: I plan on using a Diabo for the frontloaded damage and higher skill-based damage, so this is a natural choice. It should also allow me to spam my heals that much more.
Exalted Soul: I those this for the deep spirit pool that will allow me to spam heals. However, if I find I'm using spirit as fast as I generate it, I'll likely switch to Near Death Experience.
Guiding Light: A no-brainer since I plan on healing like mad. If I can activate this plus Deadly Reach damage bonus THEN hit with SSS, someone's probably gonna faceplant. Or at least crap their pants.
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This, a million times. That's exactly my point! As great as the beta looks, I don't want Inferno to be easiest in Act 1.
I can understand that, because I'd be one of those people.
Maybe there should only be a small 10-20% MF bonus on the final boss (or midway boss as well, like the Skeleton King) of the Act if you progress through the quests. And before anyone says it, yes I know: Blizzard doesn't want boss runs to be the end-all be-all of D3 and I completely agree. Wholeheartedly.
Maybe they could allow you to continue gaining XP at a VERY slow rate after 60 and allow you to "buy" say, an hour's worth of 10-20% extra MF for Y amount of XP. Quests give XP...you can see where I'm going with that. You wouldn't have to do the quests, but it would provide a small incentive.
Obviously we're all just going to have to wait and see. If Blizzard is able to balance things right and make every area of Inferno equally difficult and rewarding, GREAT! There will be no one more pleased than I. But, shrug, I have my doubts.
On a slightly different note, who else is looking forward to the Jar of Souls quest on Inferno?!?
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Sigh. So much hostility. No, I'm not trying to create a flame post. Far from it. That's why I'm not going to respond in kind. That whole eons-old axiom about arguing on the internet...
Read my post #20 to see where I'm coming from. If you disagree, that's fine! Tell me why. Let's keep it civil.
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Ahh, I hadn't seen that in any official post. If so, great! That's exactly what I want to see.
I gotta admit, I'm surprised at the amount of hostility people have to some system of incentive to play various areas of the game (but NOT limit you!). But like the previous poster said, play the game your way! And, for those doubting that Inferno will become at least somewhat easier than "You Will Die," just name ANY MORPG (not neccesarily massive) with a "hard" area: with enough time and experimentation, people almost always figure out a way to beat the system. I'm sure we'll see some strategy a few months after release of "take X classes of Y builds and you can rain death and destruction on Inferno instead of vice versa." Maybe not. I hope not. But I doubt it.
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Wow who pissed in your cornflakes this morning? I didn't say I didn't like what Blizzard is doing - quite the opposite. I'm GLAD they're trying to encourage people to not just do the equivalent of Baal runs. Baal runs were boring. What I am saying is that unless the entirety of the game is completely balanced such that all areas are of similar difficulty on Inferno, it's likely there'll be the equivalent of Baal runs unless there's an incentive to not run the same area multiple times. That's the extent of my post. The rest was asking for constructive feedback on that general theme, not a drive-by posting. Oh, and is two paragraphs too much? Must be No Child Left Behind...
THIS is what I hope happens after the game has been out for a bit. There's no way they're making Inferno hard enough for those who'll figure out how to game the system.
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Here's a couple of ideas
1. If you play through the game linearly on Inferno, you gain a stacking +10% magic find bonus in the next Act. Ie, if you progress to Act III this way, you'd have a 20% bonus through the entire Act. When you beat the game in Inferno, the bonus resets. Since each person's drops are separate from everyone else's, it won't matter if two people have different bonuses and are playing together. If you skipped ahead to different Act or went back to a previous Act, the bonus would not apply, period. This would encourage players to progress forward. However, there needs to be some incentive to FINISH the final Act and reset the bonus.
2. Provide a slowly regenerating bonus to each area in each Act, separate from all others. It would slowly regen up to +45% if it's not the area you've played the least and +50% if it IS the area you've played the least. That would encourage players to go through every area in every Act, but not necessarily in a linear order.
Thoughts?
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Thoughts?
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And I certainly hope they are! Playing a healer in PvP is some of the most MP fun I've ever had. I've already figured out a nice spam healing monk! :Thumbs Up: Maybe I'll annoy you one day "soon."
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I have waaaaay too much fun playing a healer in PvP. Being a BIG target makes it more fun. And, keeping people alive while at the same time frustrating the enemy because the guy they're beating on just won't DIE is eminently satisfying.
I do like the build: fire and forget AoE, stun, an escape skill, more damage for all + enemy slow, burst dmg, a get-outta-jail-free card, and a little healing. I see two major weaknesses and one smaller one:
1. The biggest weakness looks to be the high cooldowns on two of your skills, including your main damage dealer. 30 seconds is a long time to wait in PvP...and 45 seconds is intolerable. We'll have to wait and see if that 3 seconds of immunity is worth it because that skill will likely be used ONCE the whole round. I'm basing my viewpoint on the pace of the rounds from the youtube Arena videos. I'm sure things will change at release (and after!) but I'm seeing D3 as VERY fast paced. That makes cooldowns painful.
2. It looks like you have LOTS of spirit spending but your spirit gain is a little thin. Sure, Guardian's Path will help w/ a Bo, but I'm betting it won't be enough.
I think in the end 7SS will need to go: high spirit cost and long cooldown will make it rough to take into the Arena.
3. The minor weakness to the build is the 3rd passive: Seize the Initiative. I think with the diminishing returns on armor, 25% of dex won't be enough to justify the spot. I like the other two passive choices, but I think there are more valuable PvP passives: Fleet Footed; Exalted Soul (for burst damage or healing or BOTH); Near Death is painfully obvious...almost too much so; One With Everything (although if we really can't customize gear, this one will be useless), and Sixth Sense: not taking damage > reducing damage.
All that said, it looks like you'll have fun trying it out.
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Now, feel free to comment and tear apart my own "healer monk" PvP build. It's fairly off the cuff so I'm sure I'll leave out something obvious. My goal for this build is "generate spirit fast, heal faster, and stay away/alive."
http://us.battle.net...dXfg!Zdf!bYYYbY
Deadly Reach - long range (and hopefully safer) spirit gain with a chance of hitting multiple targets. + spirit gain rune.
Crippling Wave - AoE damage with high slow effect to prevent them from running OR prevent them from chasing me.
Dashing Strike - low spirit cost escape with no cooldown.
Breath of Heaven (25 spirit cost in game) - spammable heal.
Inner Sanctuary - escape/blocking skill. I'm very tempted to use an alabaster rune in this for the slow after the skill ends. This slow + Crippling Wave = rooted. Also, ranged allies can attack from safety in here, I think?
Mantra of Healing + Indigo = bread and butter skill. The 10 second shield for 100% damage immunity (up to 25% of life) + the 3 seconds of MAJOR life regen makes this a sick buff to cast on nearby allies getting the snot beat outta them. I would expect this one to get a cooldown placed on it, at least in PvP. If I'm lucky, that won't happen. If I'm lucky.
Passives of Guardian's Path + Bo so I can spam those skills, Exalted Soul so I can have a deep pool to spam from, and...Guiding Light IF I end up spamming Breath of Heaven. If not, NDE is a no-brainer. NDE + Mantra for the 10 second shield = back in the fight.
TL;DR right?