hope im not off topic and so i dare to say that i agree. the universe seems to work without God. tis true it does. but it deosnt mean that he didnt create the universe. it just means that it works perfectly, as far as we kno.
I wouldn't say we know it works -perfectly- because that implies we have a point of comparison. We don't have any other universe to look at and really tell how perfect the universe is.
The reason to think a higher power is at work is not found in physics or theories of how the universe works etc. it is found in our lives.
Sorry, I don't follow that line of reasoning. We exist, we have lives, and we live them evidently. We know the universe exists evidently. I don't know what reason we have to make a cognitive leap to a higher power through these evident things that, as you agreed, could exist independent of a god/higher power assumption.
if god created gravity the universe, physics, etc, all these complicated things why does that imply that we can prove the existance of God through those things, all we will find as we further explore those areas is how those areas work, kinda like the movie The Time Machine, the man created the machine because of his wife's death so how could he use it to safe his wife. God wont be found through some super complicated formula or physics or super intellectual conversations. hope i made sense and stayed on topic, lol.
I don't know if god did create the universe or not and I am not going to assume what science will or will not be able to tell us in the future either. Hence I retain my position of doubt and lack of an assumption either way.
this is where it gets confusing because there seems to be the assumption that the proof of Gods existance lies in some comological truth or something. the problem here is, for example, the Christian God is also referred to as the God of history because he acts in our history and thru events. so in order to proof this God's existance thats where u would look not in science or phsyics or the universe. I have already shared events where i strongly believe God has acted in pple's lives and these events have been responded to as simply coincidenc or mistake. this was the answer i expected to recieve from someone who hasnt lived that event. So when u say,"proof to me your god exists" the issue is what god r u referring to because depending on the God the evidence or proof would be found in a certain place, not just anywhere. if u want proof of the existance of birds u dont go looking underwater. hope i stayed on topic and shed some light on the complication of answering this question. its true that i believe god created the universe and everythin within but the God i believe in shows himself in our history, so the place to find proof of him would be there. it would be a different kind of proof, not scientific.
While I have plenty of things to say on this topic, I (a.) have no time to read through it all, and (b.) don't really want to express my opinion directly.
I'm willing to discuss the topic through private messages if you like. =)
Yes, as I said, he suggested no first-cause is required. I guess I have to repeat myself again when I say that I am NOT ruling out any possibility of god. I'm simply showing that what we do know does not imply god any more than it disregards god. You argued we had reason to think a higer power was at work. I'm saying we have no such reason to assume so. The universe, as we are coming to understand it, seems to work without a god. We certainly don't understand it entirely, or even well, but that understanding of our current limitations does not imply god one way or the other.
hope im not off topic and so i dare to say that i agree. the universe seems to work without God. tis true it does. but it deosnt mean that he didnt create the universe. it just means that it works perfectly, as far as we kno. The reason to think a higher power is at work is not found in physics or theories of how the universe works etc. it is found in our lives. if god created gravity the universe, physics, etc, all these complicated things why does that imply that we can prove the existance of God through those things, all we will find as we further explore those areas is how those areas work, kinda like the movie The Time Machine, the man created the machine because of his wife's death so how could he use it to safe his wife. God wont be found through some super complicated formula or physics or super intellectual conversations. hope i made sense and stayed on topic, lol.
I only clarified that my question was genuine since i know quite a lot of religious folks feel offended at being asked if they are gay.
Glad you are not of that group.
And I must say I am quite surprised by your revelation. Chances are that you are bisexual which is a predisposition possible within our species.
Once again I am not accusing, only trying to understand. I can say with confidence that I have not experienced any attraction to a man. I can appreciate the beauty of one but there is simply no trace of sexual attraction. So it is my experience against yours here. Considering that I have no moral or religious doubt or stance against homosexuality, I hope you will consider my experience as relevant too.
Let's wait and see if we get more people willing to back up mine or your experience on this one.
lol, okay maybe i should've rewritten everything. ill try to explain my position further. Homosexuality, bisexual, hetero these are all terms scientists came up with to explain something they dont understand. We are beginning to label each other based on certain experiences and thats not true, in my opinion. there is NO such thing as a homosexual to me, not in the way u may understand it. there are pple with certain attraction to men that they have decided to grow and nurture because at some point they felt confused and decided they are homosexuals and jumped into the bandwagon. n correct me if im wrong. but an appreciation to beauty also has an attraction to it attached. If i think a painintg is beatiful i am attracted to it. but obviously there is no possiblity for sexual intercourse there. with a woman i may be attracted to her beauty but it doesnt mean i want to have sex unless i decide it does. so why do some pple deicide to show their sexual attraction to other pple, and even animals, but not paintings? the answer is that its not possible but if it was they would definately go for it. does it mean that its right, well that depends or ur views. All i had was a feeling, which does not mean i jumped into sexual attraction. that can happen if i follow the feeling, which i did not. i also have that appreciation for beauty, hell i should if im studying art. sry i couldnt wait i needed to clarify
i assume you're not gay, and since you're not, your opinion on homosexuality doesnt matter
any homosexual you ask will say that it's not something they chose to be, but something they chose to accept. you didnt choose to be heterosexual, it's just something that is. it's the same for homosexuals. why do you think some homosexual ppl commit suicide instead of choosing to NOT be homosexual? it's because it's NOT something you can choose, just as little as you could choose to be homosexual. sure you could choose to have sex with another guy (if you're a guy) but that doesnt make you gay. it would be quite convenient if gay guys could just have sex with a girl, and then they are heterosexual suddenly -.- sorry, but it doesnt work that way.
you'd be surprised what ppl masturbate to...
oh dont worry i wouldnt be surprised, i assure you. so ur telling me homosexuals have liked men since birth? wow thats impressive didnt even kno 2 year olds had that kind of sexual drive. and its not a matter of choosing its about understanding. if im a certain way but i dont understand why i am this way than how can i possibly change or alter said aspect of myself. for instance, my relationship with my mother is very stressful, and maybe it causes me a lot of suffering but until i understand why my relationship with her is so stressful ill never manage to change it with or without God's help. The homosexuals that commit suicide... not sure what that has to do with anything, they could've committed suicide for any number of reasons. the core to all those reasons is usually between hopelessness and unhappiness. i would also encourage everyone to research more closely the rate of suicides every day, the media doesnt like to share those numbers.
I really don't care what you believe. Beliefs are not evidential and therefor useless to me. The title of the thread is "prove," your god exists. Not "make me believe," or "tell me what you believe," or anything like that. So, if you have evidence to present me that suggest your god exists, present it, but don't waste your time telling me what you believe. I didn't ask you that.
You knew this was not currently possible before you even made the thread. Therefore, you structured this thread to welcome people to try and do something that is not possible. What do you hope to get out of this?
I'm having second thoughts about leaving this open if this is the case. There is literally nowhere this thread can go but in a very tiny circle. All that can really happen here is a futile conversation going from civil to hostile. I honestly don't see a point for this thread to exist unless restructured.
i have to agree it cannot be proven thru words, especially not in forums, the existence of God can be discussed. but to prove it thru words and in a forum is impossible. as i said earlier the proof of God's existance will not be found in a forum thread, its impossible because he shows himself thru specific events in our live's. i can mention an event, in fact several but it wont do anybody here any good. all these super intellectual discussions are driving me nuts. besides we'll all find out whether God exists sooner or later. I know where i stand and thru my experiences and the experience of may pple around me and also far away i know God exists. nothing said in this thread will prove me otherwise so. its as impossible to give proof of the existance of God as it is to give proof that he doesnt exist, especially in the forums.
Yes you did but you connected it with pride and as I explained I help the other foe my well being.
i could have connected it to soo much more but i neither have the time or patience to write every little thing, which i guess is unfortunate. im acutally getting tired of this...sry guys. last note i might leave is this, if u wanna find proof of God then get ur ass off the forums u wont find the proof here.
i dont believe in god, cause the bible is full of so much crap. most of it is just to scare ppl into submission. and turns humans into mindless puppets.
if someone tells me im going to hell for burning a bible this is what i do. I laugh at their face and then slap them once. chances are that if u get scared of the bible then ur not understanding it, theres nothing to be scared off. if it was just saying that im going to hell if i dont do this or that, then i would burn every copy of it. but thats soo not wat it says soo im good. oh n about mindless puppets i see them all the time, a result of the media, if it feels good DO IT! hell yea...mindless.
I, and the vast majority of scientists, disagree with this idea
okay well i...i...i disagree too, YEA take that, one for the team :)no sriously i dont really trust scientists, for instance if i get depressed they tell me to take some drugs instead of facing, understanding, and solving my depression. and then maybe theyd ask me to go to therapy and that never solves anything for any of the pple i kno have gone, at least not permanently.
I don't interpret it however I want, I take the era it was written in and the area that the books were written in into context and I read it as such. Just like Romeo and Juliet wouldn't make sense in the 1990's in America. "Bitch killed herself for the dude? Dude stabbed himself? Dat couple's fucked up yo!"
then what would u compare a tax collector to back then to today?
I understand there are stories in it, like the wife who turned back and looked at the city (Cannot for the life of me remember any of the names) and turned into a pillar of salt for disobeying god.
But then there are rules as well, like don't be gay.
the wife turned around for a reason not just cause she felt like it. She turned around because she believed herself better and thought that the pple deserved what was comming to them. kinda like us when we are happy when someone we hate gets the justice we think they deserve. thats wat the story means. it relates directly to us and how we act.
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0