I get home and begin one of my typical evening Act 1 MP1 runs on my trusty ol’ support barb. 4 of us are rocking through the run at a brisk pace when the DH of the group goes to town and starts idling. No problem I think to myself, the other 2 players are mowing down monsters left right and center so we don’t even break stride. With the run nearing its end one of the non idle players leaves the game leaving myself and a lawnmower of a witch doctor to face the third hall and the man himself, the Butcher. Approaching the Chamber of suffering we have to deal with the pesky AFK DH and wait for the countdown before we can dance with the meat-head.
Well the chamber of suffering loads and all I see down there is myself… The Lawnmower apologizes for hitting no and wishes me luck on my tango in the fryer before respectfully leaving the game. My first thought is, well this is going to take a while, no problem as Blizzard removed enrage timers. I start slowly chipping away at the butcher all the time wishing the DH would get back so he can leave. A few minutes pass and low and behold ALL the grates on the floor light up….
Well fuck me me….
I’m struck with horror as I realize they only removed enrage timers from champion packs, not act bosses. Now being forced to constantly stand in fire (oh how disappointed my old wow raid leader would be) I see my health slowly drop and there’s absolutely nothing I can do to stop it.
fuck me….
I start freaking out, my adrenaline starts going, I don’t really see how I can survive this fight now. Thoughts of previous deaths start to surface, only instead of this untimely demise coming unexpectedly, it will be long, drawn out and fully expected. I look at the butcher at 1/3 health, I look at the DH portrait, I begin cursing the DH for going AFK.
fuck me…
Well, if he’s taking me down, he’s taking me down with a fight. Focusing on the battle at hand I try and figure out how I could possibly survive this while full of adrenaline at this point and likely shaking as well. 2 healing wells, I’m sure they respawn, how long does that take? I couldn’t possibly survive their alternating cooldowns can I? Revenge? Charge? There’s a little bit of life leech. Potions? That’s a little more time. Iron Impact to reduce damage? Even more time. Oh look, there's plate not on fire for a few seconds! I try pouring on as much damage as I can while hitting revenge, leap attack and charge every instant they come off cooldown while also trying to dance on cold plates I see. I pop one healing well while frantically trying to sustain my health. Can I do this? I pop the second healing well, no healing wells left. I keep fighting for my life, I was sure I was going to die here, damn this fire! I start getting low on health and start thinking about the re-roll I’m about to do. The first healing well comes off cooldown! Can I do this? The butcher has maybe 1/8th of his health left and I’ve survived the healing well cooldowns. I’m literally fighting for my barbarian’s life now and doing everything I can to save it.
He collapses in a pile of battered flesh…
I stopped and just stared at the screen. I had to get up and pace the room. Yup, I was definitely shaking at that point. From across the room I look at my screen and see that DH portrait in the corner, fuck that guy… It took a few more minutes to calm down and collect myself, the most intense experience I’ve ever had playing Diablo 3 had just come to an end, but I survived it. Sorry Death, but I know you’ll be back some other day…
I plan on rushing HC and being the first HC player to reach and beat Inferno. I've taken a month off of work (25 days of saved up Vacation time!), plan on playing 70-90 hours at launch and 12-16 hours every day for the next month.
I'm looking for a party member or two who's planning on investing as much time in HC mode as I am as a consistent party will likley make their way to Inferno faster and safer than a solo player.
If there are no takers now I'll check again around the end of April.
I wasn't going to but the more I think about it, how can you beat experiencing brand new Diablo with the possibility of permanent death? Not knowing what's around the next corning and knowing EVERY corner might kill you?
It might slow me down at first with a few deaths but I can't think of any better way to experience Diablo 3!
If bosses have an equivalent chance-per-kill-time based off the boss itself
No, simply based off Killtime is BAD because you can makeup a lot of that time due to tailor made characters and static location. Drop chance needs to be based off kill time, difficulty AND time to locate. *IF* bosses are easier because you can find them a lot faster than champions they need to reduce their drop rates. If they are easier to kill because you can just tailor your character to take out that boss (ie stack fire/lightning resist for Diablo) then they also need to have their drop rates adjusted. I don't really care how hard/easy champs are, how random Bosses are or any of the other random crap you keep blathering about, it needs to be adjusted specifically for however they make the end game of Diablo 3.
And again I don't think there is really ANY chance of finding 'zero champs' when farming.
So what, you're calling me a liar? Seriously, 10 SK runs and ONE champ pack... It's a lot more efficient to just run SK over and over and over and over again for loot because he's always there and he always drops blue gear for you despite him taking a little longer to kill than champs. In fact by far the best way currently to get loot in the Beta is to just rush new characters to the Skeleton King repeatedly, AWESOME VARIETY OF MF PLACES WE HAVE THERE!!!
Tek... champs - minimum 4-5 per floor of every dungeon
No they don't actually, I've done many Skeleton King runs where I haven't encountered a single champ, yet for some reason the Skeleton King is always there and always guarantees me a blue.
have distinct random modifiers that can come in varieties of ridiculously easy to ridiculously hard but you can see which it is and easily avoid the latter
Opposed to bosses which are all really easy? And most champs weren't ridiculously easy in D2 for any character who wasn't decked out in top of the line gear (ie sorc's with infinity). As I explained above there were more troublesome modifiers than there were "ridiculously easy" mods, and a lot of them together made mobs very dangerous (Especially for Hardcore players). Throw in double and triple immunities and a lot of classes have an *extremely* difficult time with a large number of champs. Sure you could try and avoid certain mobs *if* you had the mobility (ie a sorc or enigma), but it was a lot more difficult if you played legitimately. It really sounds like you never played D2 legitimately Sel.
have much much much lower health so even if they have difficult modifiers are still generally quicker to kill.
If they weren't immune then yea, but you also have to realize that they could kill YOU a lot quicker (again, through legitimate play)
Bosses - require clearing at least 2-3 dungeon floors to get to even one
you don't have to clear the floor, in fact if you know where the only guaranteed good loot drop is (ie a boss), you will beeline your way there and kill any champs you find on the way. People won't spend their time clearing a floor "hoping" to find a champ when they know for sure where one is.
have way inflated health, have distinct scripts and epic effects that make them more interesting to fight. And bosses being 'predictable' is entirely dependent upon the quality of the AI.If the AI is well designed, the mobs may have say 10 abilities they can use but you can't be sure which they'll use when.
So you want to make bosses like champs only with prettier effects? it's a lot harder to make epic, scripted events when the boss you're fighting has a large pool of random effects so that's not going to fly. Bosses have never been as random, and even *if* they made bosses with a pool of abilities to choose from in order to increase their difficulty in order to "allow" Blizzard to give them good drops, that just makes bosses *the* best places in the entire game to farm which means EVERYONE who wants to farm is now forced to farm bosses because they are consistent, easy to find and always drop good loot.
I'm sorry, but except for the most RARE sets of modifiers, I don't forsee champions being slower OR harder than bosses on inferno.
Guess you didn't play D2 much OR read my previous few posts. You are wrong on this.
Even with the 'predictability' of the boss, if it's well designed it can still be a challenge.
No it won't because of their boss philosophies. They want bosses to be somewhat challenging, but MORE than that they want boss fights to be cool and epic with giant monsters and crazy effects. Challenge for bosses takes backseat to cool experiences.
Look at the Ninja Gaiden series. Once you'd fought a boss once yuou knew what it was going to do. But that didn't mean you could kill it every time because things were designed well.
I dont' know what ninja gaiden series you're talking about, but the nes bosses were just annoying. Very difficult to avoid patterns did not make for cool or epic encounters. Besides, talking about Ninja Gaiden, that was one of the MOST difficult nes series, and it wasn't just the bosses that made it difficult.
Not only that but if they DO design it so that you run into 15-20 sets of mobs who are SIGNIFICANTLY harder than the boss BEFORE the boss I'll be highly - HIGHLY disappointed.
Well they aren't designing it like that so don't' worry about it. It's random, random is random. Like I said WITH AN EXAMPLE FROM DIABLO 3, a lot of the times you don't even run into a single champ doing a Skeleton King run
If there is ONE or TWO sets of modifiers that can spawn randomly that make the mobs insane, that's different, but if the AVERAGE champion is harder than a boss it will make the game very anti-climactic. VERY VERY anticlimactic.
there were a lot more than one or two sets in D2. Diablo and Baal were both huge pushovers in D2, hell lister, gloams and dolls were all more challenging than Baal while Obliv Knights, Iron Maiden, De Seis and Lower Resist were all more challenging than Diablo. Did that make those bosses VERY VERY anticlimatic for you?
It's like War in the North - which just came out so the reference is relevent. About 20 minutes before you fight the final boss you have to fight two trolls and like 4-5 other enemies in a sort of time sensitive situation. All normal enemies. They were VASTLY more difficult than the boss. DRAMATICALLY more difficult. And it almost completely ruined the satisfaction of finishing the game. Because the boss was such a pushover.
Sounds like a terrible game in general. Just checked Metacritic and you're comparing Diablo 3 to a game with an average metacritic score of 65? I'd be willing to bet War in the North has a lot more problems than easy boss fights..
Bosses are SUPPOSED to be the most difficult - that is why they're the boss. If the boss is a pushover and some random enemy who just wanders his halls aimlessly is so much stronger than him - WHY IS HE STILL THE BOSS?
Obviously not according to D2 and D2 was wildly successful!
As far as non-super-unique rares go there were really only a couple of combos that were even difficult. MSLE, con/fe/gloam+con... those are really the 3. Any other rare and there were THOUSANDS of other rares were really cake.
You must have a bad memory because, conviction, LE, FE, Amp damage, Fanat, Conc, Extra strong, extra fast, and immunes made A LOT of super uniques a bitch to deal with, ESPECIALLY considering D3 isn't going to have ridiculously overpowered gear and the best gear isn't stupidly easy to obtain because there hopefully won't be duping or bots.
Bosses were significantly easier than a lot of super uniques and you trying to justify there just being "a few among thousands" is an incredibly naive statement.
We know their reasoning, and we think it's stupid. That's why we're posting. Not because we want bosses to be 'the way to go' but because we want bosses to feel meaningful.
"We"? You mean you 14%? Sorry, but us 70% are more important, "we" win, because we like bosses not being worth farming and we are by far the majority.
Hey all, I put this together last night (Trying to mimic the 2010 Blizzcon schedule format) because I find it way easier to see where everything happens when looking at it in chart form instead of just all text and figured I'd share
I spent a while creating an excel D3 character sheet because I like doing that kinda stuff Eventually I will have a sheet for each class, but it started with the Wizard. There's a bunch of dummy data and functionality based off our knowledge of D3 pre fansite visit (so it has trait and skill points). It will also be updated to reflect D3 once it's released (along with updating the fake stats and items with real stats and items). And lastly it runs a little slow on some computers due to the dynamically updating images so I'd actually like to know how many people it affects. I can remove the images and replace them with text to speed up the doc, it just won't be as cool.
You need excel to use the doc, other than that you can input your characters level, skills, traits, gear (including the ability to make your own rare items), aura's and gems and it will calculate your characters statistics and damage output.
I made an excel calculator for the Wizard actually with skills, traits, items, gems, aura's and levels. I wasn't going to finish the others until we got a bunch of real info (it was also created before the Fansite invite so it works off the 20 trait and skillpoint system.
5
Well the chamber of suffering loads and all I see down there is myself… The Lawnmower apologizes for hitting no and wishes me luck on my tango in the fryer before respectfully leaving the game. My first thought is, well this is going to take a while, no problem as Blizzard removed enrage timers. I start slowly chipping away at the butcher all the time wishing the DH would get back so he can leave. A few minutes pass and low and behold ALL the grates on the floor light up….
Well fuck me me….
I’m struck with horror as I realize they only removed enrage timers from champion packs, not act bosses. Now being forced to constantly stand in fire (oh how disappointed my old wow raid leader would be) I see my health slowly drop and there’s absolutely nothing I can do to stop it.
fuck me….
I start freaking out, my adrenaline starts going, I don’t really see how I can survive this fight now. Thoughts of previous deaths start to surface, only instead of this untimely demise coming unexpectedly, it will be long, drawn out and fully expected. I look at the butcher at 1/3 health, I look at the DH portrait, I begin cursing the DH for going AFK.
fuck me…
Well, if he’s taking me down, he’s taking me down with a fight. Focusing on the battle at hand I try and figure out how I could possibly survive this while full of adrenaline at this point and likely shaking as well. 2 healing wells, I’m sure they respawn, how long does that take? I couldn’t possibly survive their alternating cooldowns can I? Revenge? Charge? There’s a little bit of life leech. Potions? That’s a little more time. Iron Impact to reduce damage? Even more time. Oh look, there's plate not on fire for a few seconds! I try pouring on as much damage as I can while hitting revenge, leap attack and charge every instant they come off cooldown while also trying to dance on cold plates I see. I pop one healing well while frantically trying to sustain my health. Can I do this? I pop the second healing well, no healing wells left. I keep fighting for my life, I was sure I was going to die here, damn this fire! I start getting low on health and start thinking about the re-roll I’m about to do. The first healing well comes off cooldown! Can I do this? The butcher has maybe 1/8th of his health left and I’ve survived the healing well cooldowns. I’m literally fighting for my barbarian’s life now and doing everything I can to save it.
He collapses in a pile of battered flesh…
I stopped and just stared at the screen. I had to get up and pace the room. Yup, I was definitely shaking at that point. From across the room I look at my screen and see that DH portrait in the corner, fuck that guy… It took a few more minutes to calm down and collect myself, the most intense experience I’ve ever had playing Diablo 3 had just come to an end, but I survived it. Sorry Death, but I know you’ll be back some other day…
-This is why I play Hardcore
1
I plan on rushing HC and being the first HC player to reach and beat Inferno. I've taken a month off of work (25 days of saved up Vacation time!), plan on playing 70-90 hours at launch and 12-16 hours every day for the next month.
I'm looking for a party member or two who's planning on investing as much time in HC mode as I am as a consistent party will likley make their way to Inferno faster and safer than a solo player.
If there are no takers now I'll check again around the end of April.
Thanks!
1
It might slow me down at first with a few deaths but I can't think of any better way to experience Diablo 3!
1
No, simply based off Killtime is BAD because you can makeup a lot of that time due to tailor made characters and static location. Drop chance needs to be based off kill time, difficulty AND time to locate. *IF* bosses are easier because you can find them a lot faster than champions they need to reduce their drop rates. If they are easier to kill because you can just tailor your character to take out that boss (ie stack fire/lightning resist for Diablo) then they also need to have their drop rates adjusted. I don't really care how hard/easy champs are, how random Bosses are or any of the other random crap you keep blathering about, it needs to be adjusted specifically for however they make the end game of Diablo 3.
So what, you're calling me a liar? Seriously, 10 SK runs and ONE champ pack... It's a lot more efficient to just run SK over and over and over and over again for loot because he's always there and he always drops blue gear for you despite him taking a little longer to kill than champs. In fact by far the best way currently to get loot in the Beta is to just rush new characters to the Skeleton King repeatedly, AWESOME VARIETY OF MF PLACES WE HAVE THERE!!!
1
No they don't actually, I've done many Skeleton King runs where I haven't encountered a single champ, yet for some reason the Skeleton King is always there and always guarantees me a blue.
Opposed to bosses which are all really easy? And most champs weren't ridiculously easy in D2 for any character who wasn't decked out in top of the line gear (ie sorc's with infinity). As I explained above there were more troublesome modifiers than there were "ridiculously easy" mods, and a lot of them together made mobs very dangerous (Especially for Hardcore players). Throw in double and triple immunities and a lot of classes have an *extremely* difficult time with a large number of champs. Sure you could try and avoid certain mobs *if* you had the mobility (ie a sorc or enigma), but it was a lot more difficult if you played legitimately. It really sounds like you never played D2 legitimately Sel.
If they weren't immune then yea, but you also have to realize that they could kill YOU a lot quicker (again, through legitimate play)
you don't have to clear the floor, in fact if you know where the only guaranteed good loot drop is (ie a boss), you will beeline your way there and kill any champs you find on the way. People won't spend their time clearing a floor "hoping" to find a champ when they know for sure where one is.
So you want to make bosses like champs only with prettier effects? it's a lot harder to make epic, scripted events when the boss you're fighting has a large pool of random effects so that's not going to fly. Bosses have never been as random, and even *if* they made bosses with a pool of abilities to choose from in order to increase their difficulty in order to "allow" Blizzard to give them good drops, that just makes bosses *the* best places in the entire game to farm which means EVERYONE who wants to farm is now forced to farm bosses because they are consistent, easy to find and always drop good loot.
Guess you didn't play D2 much OR read my previous few posts. You are wrong on this.
No it won't because of their boss philosophies. They want bosses to be somewhat challenging, but MORE than that they want boss fights to be cool and epic with giant monsters and crazy effects. Challenge for bosses takes backseat to cool experiences.
I dont' know what ninja gaiden series you're talking about, but the nes bosses were just annoying. Very difficult to avoid patterns did not make for cool or epic encounters. Besides, talking about Ninja Gaiden, that was one of the MOST difficult nes series, and it wasn't just the bosses that made it difficult.
Well they aren't designing it like that so don't' worry about it. It's random, random is random. Like I said WITH AN EXAMPLE FROM DIABLO 3, a lot of the times you don't even run into a single champ doing a Skeleton King run
there were a lot more than one or two sets in D2. Diablo and Baal were both huge pushovers in D2, hell lister, gloams and dolls were all more challenging than Baal while Obliv Knights, Iron Maiden, De Seis and Lower Resist were all more challenging than Diablo. Did that make those bosses VERY VERY anticlimatic for you?
Sounds like a terrible game in general. Just checked Metacritic and you're comparing Diablo 3 to a game with an average metacritic score of 65? I'd be willing to bet War in the North has a lot more problems than easy boss fights..
Obviously not according to D2 and D2 was wildly successful!
1
You must have a bad memory because, conviction, LE, FE, Amp damage, Fanat, Conc, Extra strong, extra fast, and immunes made A LOT of super uniques a bitch to deal with, ESPECIALLY considering D3 isn't going to have ridiculously overpowered gear and the best gear isn't stupidly easy to obtain because there hopefully won't be duping or bots.
Bosses were significantly easier than a lot of super uniques and you trying to justify there just being "a few among thousands" is an incredibly naive statement.
"We"? You mean you 14%? Sorry, but us 70% are more important, "we" win, because we like bosses not being worth farming and we are by far the majority.
1
http://i.imgur.com/1sD9o.jpg
1
I spent a while creating an excel D3 character sheet because I like doing that kinda stuff
You need excel to use the doc, other than that you can input your characters level, skills, traits, gear (including the ability to make your own rare items), aura's and gems and it will calculate your characters statistics and damage output.
http://media.diablofans.com/dps_calc.xls
Let me know what you think!
1
Sixen will be hosting it here sometime shortly