DiabloFans

Quote from Enkeria

Quote from fragdieb

dreamhack is the worlds greatest lan tournament. it hosts quake live, starcraft2, dota2 and many more tournaments . it's pretty well known in e-sports scene, and it takes place in sweden.

And even if I've bin in Sweden the last 6 times when Dreamhack is there, I still dont wanna go there.
However, this year my Dj friend will meet the DJ on stage for Dreamhack, and talk DJ stuff. I wont be there.

Im traveling elsewhere in December.

who cares? this topic is not about your feelings and travel destinations.

and we need last man standing !!!!!!!!

Stop arguing fools. TDM = crap.

Everyone who played d2 in a competitive environment (ladders and leagues) knows that.
Yes I know, in this forum there are no people who played d2 competitively with balanced rule sets. 99 % of this forum's member are freakin pvm heroes who maybe played some open, bad mannered pvp. I've not met one single person here who played competitivle pvp in d2. That's soooooooooooo poor diablofans.com.

You can't even discuss about it. STOP IT. Conax is correct in all of his points, also those about wow.

Since noone of you here realised it right now:
Under the current circumstances, Diablo 3 non casual PVP is utterly dead, even before the game got released.
Not even the most dedicated people will put work into setting up a competitive environment to play RET*RDED TEAM DEATH MATCH. This is for sure!!!! I know that since I am in regular contact with those people who ran those leagues in the past (1.08 - 1.11).


I seriously am askin myself what blizzard did this past 6 years. Pokin fingers up their nose. The pvp development team must be a bunch of damn newbs with no experience about competitive environments and setups.


If they don't change this whole pvp issue, we have 3 possibilities:

- play future games for competitive pvp
- go back to wow arena, like I did, when I read the recent news
- play d3 for pve fun and real life moneyz if it's going to be released in any near future


Over and out, rant about me, I really don't care.

Hi Diablofans!

I'm around here for a while, reading this forum since 2008, just never registered myself.
This site is a truly unique project, I've never encountered such a professional and ambitious fan site in around 10 years of personal diablo history.

So first of all: Thank you diablofans.com, diablofans staff and members. You're doing an awesome job!!!!


My personal background:

In the beginning I was introduced to diablo2 in the year 2000 by a friend. From this time on I was hooked to d2, it was a great time hackin' and slashin' through classic, it even got better in the expansion set. The run for items, pvping, trading and the appereance of a real market inside a game, just amazed me.

Later on, I stopped playing pvm, and went for one thing only:

The great decade of legit pvp 1.09 - 1.11

What is legit pvp you may ask?
It was a term used for playing pvp under a restricted rule set, which balanced out the flaws diablo 2 naturally had. Those rulesets were introduced and developed by leagues and pvp communities. The aim was to give different team vs team setups equal chances while fighting each other. During 1.09 those leagues were huuuuuuge, I remember tournaments with around 30 4n4 teams dueling each other. Besides 4n4 there also existed 1n1, 2n2, 3n3 leagues/tournaments. Most mentionable communities were duellliga, art of war, postreality, euro-pvp and polish clan league.

I remember being very eager and motivated to be one of the top players around, and well I partly succeeded. When I look back, I can say we (the teams/clans I was in) won some of those tournaments or at least got among the top 5 nearly every time. I also managed to evolve to one of the top assassin players around, it was a great time, although daily training was essential to stay up to the competition. But hey I was young and had nothing to do except passing school / university, life was easy

With experience and time passed, there came duties and responsibilities as for example being assassin moderator in various communities, admin of art of war, part of the rule development team e.g. at euro-pvp.
Our aim was to step up to the next level and make D2 dueling more interesting as an e-sport. We dreamed of receiving sponsorship for tournaments or leagues, or even sponsorship for the better teams around that time. We spent a lot of time bringing d2 pvp to a professional level, but ... we failed. Sponsors weren't interested, human resources were low and after introducing past 1.09 content, many active players just left to wow or quitted. I also think, if we would have had shoutcasters, streams of tournament finals etc. it could have become a lot better.

In 1.10/1.11 this scene did get another little push, because of many youngbloods joining the legit dueling scene, but it never was as many players as back in 1.09. To sum up, the scene was dead at around the year 2009. None of the mentioned communities do still exist, nor do the players or the items we gathered over years. Thanks to blizzards deleting/banning wave in 1.11, where nearly every user playing with a modified language dll or other bagatelles lost all of his wealth.
Luckily, I stopped some months before this happened, I would have cried ^^

Nevertheless, this time was my best time ever playing a game, due to friendships, the work and the little effort we had. Hell yeah I even met the guys I played with in real life. Is there anything better you can expect from a game?


So what are my expectations for the upcoming DIABLO 3 (if it ever comes out before I am too old to react ... )
First of all, I am pretty sure, pvp is gonna be big in d3. In the longterm, it's the thing which will keep me playing for the upcoming 4 - 10 years. What I expect next is a huge wave of former d2 players coming back to meet up, form leagues, an active scene. I also do appreciate the dedication of people like FORCE (thumbs up!) who plans to shoutcast future tourneys and so on, this is what an active pvp scene needs: COVERAGE. You should have been around 6 years ago dude ^^. Although blizzard said they wont focus too much on pvp, I hope this time we can get it popular and big.



Last thing I wanna talk about is the time which has passed since anouncement of diablo 3.
What can I say here ... well development is faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar toooooooo slooooooooooooow.
I personally wait for it since I dunno... many moons ago describes it best I think. Diablo 3 is now at the peak where people are losing interest... so they better hurry up.

A simple example: We already worked out a D3 pvp focused website, forum, tournament/league scripts, marketing concepts etc., 1,5 years ago.
Why? Because we had the impression D3 is around the corner.... Nowadays, none of the people involved have any interest in the topic or just dropped the idea. It simply took too long. Thx to blizzard for raising false expectations.


Well, thats my introduction and my personal diablo history. Hope you had an interesting read.


Best regards!

^fragdieb aka B4ST4RD aka LEH-B4ST4RD aka TC-B4ST4RD



greetings to the following (uuuhh nostalgic purpose):

Art of War Community
Duelliga Community
Postreality Community
Euro-Pvp Community
The Amazon Basin
Legit Ear Hunters Clan
Terrorcorps Clan
Terror ad Vincit Clan
Vik, Spirals, Invisible, Faleya and many other people I've met in those years, too many to quote each.



I appologise for my grammar and vocabulary, english is not my mother tongue.

Vooodu Vs. AudioCG - livestream duel on day one patch DEMANDED !

I'm at zero. Sometimes turtles pass me in between packs. Once a snail even asked me to pull over and let him by. In early act 1, before he dies, Deckard usually whips me with his cane for holding him up so much.

Quote from Sindromica

I mean,look at vanilla world of warcraft...todays's wow bears only cosmetic resemblance to the latest blizzard cash strumpet...over time wow has been dulled down to the extent where for example our bows somehow have magic arrows that never run out and pets that never need feeding or resurect your friend with an instant boost to lvl 80,wheres the challenge gone?....so i predict that over time as much as the blizzard beguile you with the difficulty of inferno mode(our internal test team cant even beat it) it will eventually succum to the inevitable and be dummed down for the masses...i type this in the hope that it wont and forever remains a challenge but my synical side tells me my hopes will be dashed.

Please prove me wrong MR Blizzard.

I'm going to be very generous of spirit and actually address the kernel of substance here.

D3 is a very different animal from WoW. The reason for the watering down of WoW end-game content was that developers were spending thousand of man-hours developing content only 2% of the population would actually see. That and they wanted the play-time from install to level cap to remain consistent despite expansions, so they sped leveling up with each expansion.

Diablo 3 faces neither of those issues. Inferno is the same content with higher mLevel. They're not wasting tons of time designing a boss no one will reach, so their RoI is fine without any watering down.

Similarly, when they release a new expansion, it will be a new Act, new classes, probably a new gear mechanic of some type, but nothing like the total environmental re-set that a WoW expansion was where you never go back to hang out in the previous expansion's content.

So, rest easy. If Inferno IS toned down, it will have nothing to do with the factors you're worried about.

I just wanted to put this all in one post, and make it a bit easier to see. Some of this could be wrong, so feel free to post to correct any of it that isn't right and I'll edit it.

Much of this is based off assumptions about how something is most likely to operate in the game.
____________

What forms of +Damage are Multiplicative VS Additive...

Monster Debuffs: ???
Critical Hit Chance: Additive
Critical Hit Damage: Additive
Attack Speed: Additive
Damage Increased by Skills: Additive
Damage Increased by Attributes: Additive
____________

Critcal Multiplier: 1 + [Crit % + Crit Damage %]

For this equation both the Crit % and Crit Damage % are decimals.
____________

Multipliers are represented as 1 + Damage Increase. 10% = 1.1, etc. This does not apply to Skill Damage, 150% = 1.5 Multiplier. It doesn't apply to Attack Speed either of course.

DPS =

[Monster Debuff Multiplier] x [Critical Multiplier] x [Attack Speed] x [Overall Damage Multiplier] x [Primary Attribute Multiplier] x [Skill Damage Multiplier] x [Weapon Damage]

Remove Attack Speed to find the damage of abilities with cooldowns. Insert the Attack Speed of the ability to find its DPS.

Also, you can remove [Weapon Damage] and [Attack Speed] and replace it with your [Weapon DPS] in order to perhaps make the calculation easier when looking at abilities that don't have cooldowns.

____________

As for Damage Reduction (against monsters the same level as you):

It's best represented as [1 - DR]. So if you have 25% reduction it would be [1 - 0.25]=0.75. Meaning the monster is doing 75% of his normal damage.

It is unknown how Monster Debuffs stack. I would assume that they do to some extent, but eventually become less valuable. They should each be their own multiplier regardless. If you had Bad Medicine (20%), Resolve (25%), Threatening Shout (20%), Breaking Wave (10%) and Circle of Protection (35%). 0.8*0.75*0.8*0.9*0.65=0.28. An enemy would only be doing 28% damage, before calculating Armor, Resists, Dodge or Block.

Moving on...

Armor DR = Armor / (50*mlvl + Armor)
Resists DR = Resists / (5*mlvl + Resists)

Dodge DR is simply equal to your Dodge Percentage. If you have a 30% chance to Dodge, you're only being hit 70% of the time. Or more specifically, you're only taking 70% Monster Damage. Dodge from gear should be multiplicative. That is, if you have 3% Dodge on a Belt and 3% Dodge on Boots, it would be 0.97*0.97*[Base Dodge]. The same goes for passives.

However, it's worth noting that Dodge becomes better the more you have of it. A 1% gain when you have 5% Dodge, is worth less than a 1% gain when you have 30% Dodge. More exactly, the former is equal to a 1.05% DR gain, the latter is equal to a 1.43% DR gain. At 90% Dodge, 1% more Dodge gives you a 10% DR gain. And finally, at 98% Dodge, 1% more Dodge gives you a 50% DR gain.

That being said, it only alters the value of each point of Dodge, it doesn't alter the DR of Dodge itself when calculating your Total Damage Reduction.

Total Damage Reduction =

[1 - Monster Debuff] x [1 - Armor DR] x [1 - Resists DR] x [1 - Dodge] x [-1] + [1]

Block would then be figured in on top of this. So it would reduce your damage taken by a flat amount in addition to your Damage Reduction.

This equation is interesting so that you can find how much damage you'll be taking on average, but since Dodge is not actually a percent reduction, it could be more useful to leave Dodge out of it and just know that you'll only be hit a % of the time and then calculate how much damage you'll take when you are hit. And then you would factor in Block after that.

Keep in mind that although it's possible to get very high DR, it only refers to monsters the same level as you. Once you're in Inferno, many monsters will be above you in level which means your defensive stats won't be worth as much. Therefore, it becomes more necessary to stack very high defense against monsters the same level as you.

____________

These two calculations should give you a rough idea of your Damage / Defense.

Let me know what I've left out, or if anything is wrong...

____________

Notes...

Your displayed damage is a rounded figure. If you do 2.5 damage it should display 3 damage on the screen. Monster Health is also a rounded figure. Both of these are rounded traditionally. The damage displayed does not reflect the damage you're actually doing. Your damage is truly in decimal form, but the game rounds it for the display. This means that your displayed damage will often not add up to the deficit in the Monster's Health.

Crit chance cap was said to be 75% back when Precision existed. This may or may not have changed, but we could assume it's 75% at the moment until we learn otherwise.

Damage Reduction refers to just Armor in the Character Tab, not your Total Damage Reduction.

It is unknown if the Dodge cap will be 100% or perhaps something lower closer to 50%. The gains begin increasing quite a bit per point of Dodge after about 50%.

There may be an equation for Dodge involving mlvl, but I'm not sure of it at this point. But I would expect Dodge to be reduced somehow against higher level monsters, just as Resists and Armor are.

I'm not sure of a Block Cap, though it was 75% in D2 and could be the same in D3. However, Blocking works differently in D3 because it doesn't completely negate damage but rather works off a Block Amount. Also, Block % may or may not be lowered when moving.

There is likely a Damage Reduction cap as well. Perhaps somewhere around 75%? Not sure really.

Starcraft at Launch















Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

Blizzard hears the cries of fans and obviously reads the complaints. If this was not the case Starcraft 2 would still just have Auto-Matchmaking and nothing more.

In statistics, a sample is a subset of a population. Typically, the population is very large, making a census or a complete enumeration of all the values in the population impractical or impossible. The sample represents a subset of manageable size. Samples are collected and statistics are calculated from the samples so that one can make inferences or extrapolations from the sample to the population.




"WHERES ARE MY AVATARS?"
"WHY CAN I NOT IGNORE X BOT"
"I TRY TALKING BUT MY TEXT IS PUSHED OFF SCREEN IN .0003 SECONDS"
"WHY AM I AUTO ASSIGNED A CHANNEL , EG TRADE 1,2,3,4 ALL MY FRIENDS ARE IN TRADE 2"
"WHY NO PRIVATE CHANNELS??"







All of these listed features are present in EVERY Blizzard game.

You do not want bots? I get it. But why not give users a means to entire another channel or actively block said bots? It doesnt make sense unless you

want to make the Chat experience for the user as painful as possible.

Where is the Blizzard that holds value to quality? If you didnt want people to socialize just make it obvious and dont impliment Chat Channels and face the negative PR that comes with it. But if your going to release a feature AT LEAST GIVE IT YOUR ALL.

This thread will be updated, just post and I will add VALID arguments to the tables, yes this is biased, yes this is the PvP discussion. This will be used to strengthen the PvP argument.

Plaintiff - PvP'ers
Demands

Customizable Arena options for private matches - Game types (FFA, Teams, 2 v 3, ect) - Changing the time limit - custom respawn times (instant, XX seconds, none) - other options I can't think of right now.

World PvP option (D2 Style) - Allow world PvP as a game option during creation.

Group/Party vs Group/Party - Able to selectively choose if you want to take XXX to the arena/dual/game.

Statistics (toggleable or personal only) - Kills, deaths, highest burst damage, most players killed in a life, ect.

Guild/Clan Flags - Ability to show your guild/clan name on your flag.

Wishful thinking:

Wagers - A safe way to bet on duels (it is going to happen either way right? Cough Cough RMAH logic).


Defendant - PvM'ers
Defense

Balance - Not many are expecting this, actually nobody is except the PvMers useing it as a counter aurgument. - And no you don't need to be inside of an arena for skills to be balanced, even in D2 they had ways of balancing skills on players.

Ladders - PvM'ers do not want ranks/ladders.

Esport - PvM'ers don't want an "esport".

Elitism - Don't want to deal with elitism.

So I am going to rant a bit because this bugs me a lot. PvE people and Blizzard "cough" Jay Wilson "cough". I feel like people who are agaisnt PvP in Diablo didn't even play the game.. It honestly hurts my brain to see people agaisnt PvP in this game. Truly hurts my brain. I can't grasp the concept of hating on something so much when it has literally zero effect on any PvE'ers.. If you don't want to PvP it's very simple. You just don't do it. It makes no logical sense to hate or bash something that doesn't effect you.. I'll say it again. It makes no logical sense. So I am not sure why PvE players care so much that PvP people want Blizzard to back one of the biggest, if not the biggest thing about Diablo 2's endgame. PvP.

I mean lets be real about D2 for a second shall we? So you're level 90+ on almost every character.. You've already maxed out all the PvE content in the game 8x3 = 24+ times AT THE VERY LEAST! I played the game for 5-6 years and you can imagine how many times I beat the game over and over to get loot. So in terms of story line, original content, and really anything else to the game it's over with pretty quickly or at least Diablo 2 was. First run through is nice and takes a while, everything after that you're rushing a character through the game to get to a point where you can farm bosses for loot, to trade, then to PvP. Unless you play offline which takes a lot longer and can be done for a personal goal but that has again ZERO effect on PvP so it's irrelivent. Anywho the PvE aspect of this game has been covered in that Diablo 3 will most likely have a great story line (Played the Beta, It was awesome for me and I go into it) but once the game is beaten, (yes I know Blizz said I will die a lot and Inferno mode will be incredibly hard and most likely very fun but..) you just beat end game content over and over for more loot so you can..

TRADE! That's right. That's the other part of this fantastic game which was so incredibly fun! Blizzard has already managed to ruin that in Diablo 3 making items purchasable through the game (Yes I know websites would of been selling items anyways but doing this encourages every 12 year old with a credit card to have FAT LOOTS when all they did was drop 100 extra bucks on the game making them no better then anyone else which imo is complete bullshit to promote in a game BUT ANYWAYS!) You beat the hardest end game bosses for more loot! With this loot you trade it to get better loot! So you can kill bosses faster to get loot FASTER! So you can either end the game here for yourself and trade all day (not hating, tradings cool if you wanna trade all day but there's more to the game) or you can use that nicely aquired loot too..

KILL OTHER PLAYERS. Now onto the final stage of what Diablo 2 was. I played D2 for a long, long time. It the game I've returned too most in my entire life. Everytime I came back to the game it went exactly like how I wrote it down. PvE to get Items, then trade those items, so I can be good at PvP. To do anything otherwise seemed.. Pointless..? PvP was the ultimate end game in D2 if you really think about it.

I mean really, what else is there too the game? Kill stuff for rewards, then trade rewards for better stuff, then try and build the best character for PvP. Now you might say I have a flawed view of the game or I am just being biased towards PvE because I was an avid fan of PvP and still em but I will tell you, you're completely wrong if you think that.

I LOVE a good storyline. I LOVED D2's storyline. I watched every cinematic countless times because I just enjoyed the game so much in every aspect.I came back to the game not only because I loved it's PvP but because I loved playing Diablo the game so much. To not take advantage of what Diablo 2 had to offer was just silly, and still is silly in my eyes. There's three things you can do in D2. PvE for Loot. Trade Loot. PvP. That's it. You can choose to do 1/3 or 2/3 and limit the games full potential but I chose to do 3/3 and I enjoyed D2 more then any game in my entire life.

So when you have people spamming "WAHH WE DON'T WANT IT TO BE AN ESPORT!" or "PVP WILL TAKE AWAY FROM THE PVE CONTENT BECAUSE BLIZZARD WILL HAVE TO TRY AND BALANCE IT AND PUT RESOURCES ONTO SOMETHING I AM NOT INTERESTED IN!" I'd call you a selfish person then. If you try and claim PvP wasn't a massive part of D2 then you didn't play the game to it's full potential. I want D3 to be a kick ass storyline driven RPG as much as anyone does. In fact I am sick of all this PvP games I've been playing lately and I've been waiting for a great game with a great storyline to come out and I cannot wait for D3. Once I am done beating the game in 2-3 months I will want to move on from the RPG aspect and start PvPing again. Except I can't because it's not going to be supported what so ever..

The game will be completely imbalanced most likely for PvP. (I am aware D2 was imbalanced but D3 has the knowledge, the tools (the pve and pvp balancing tool which YES THEY DO HAVE!), and the time to make it balanced for the PvP community. Blizzard is a big boy company now since D2's release and they can handle this shit if they so choose too they just simply aren't which again, blows my mind) The game will have very little support for PvP compared to the PvE aspect and won't have any ranked system for players to go up against each other and see who's the best. To not promote or care about one of the three BIGGEST aspects let alone the ONLY three aspects of D2 makes me lose faith in Blizzard as a company and dims the light PC gaming as a whole as Blizzard has produced the best games I've ever played in the past, but it seems the future holds a different story for me and Blizzards relationship.

Supporting PvP supports the Diablo community. Supporting PvP as an eSport makes the game more popular then you can imagine. You want more PvE content? Well if the games an incredibly popular eSport it will give Blizz the money and motiviation to keep it comming with more great content for us. Supporting PvP just adds to the game. I think that's the biggest point here is that adding and supporting PvP just adds more content and things to do in the game which to my knowledge isn't a bad thing what so ever. I don't think I can stress that enough that it only adds to the greatness of what Diablo 3 can be.

So PvE'ers I am not sure what your problem is other then you want all the focus to be on PvE game for your own selfish needs because you've all made it so clear you don't dare about PvP in your game. PvP only makes Diablo 3 stronger in EVERY ASPECT OF THE GAME and if you don't want to support that aspect guess what.. YOU DON'T HAVE TOO! Just go kill monsters and shit to trade over and over and let the community of PvP'ers be happy killing each other with that aquired loot.

PvE'ers by not supporting PvP you take away from the game, and most of all you take away from the community. Remember that when bashing PvP.

Blizzard by not supporting PvP the way it should be supported in Diablo 3 you take away from your game, and you let down the community. Remember that when neglecting a major aspect of what made your game popular and what kept people coming back to play it.

I know you guys are suffering so I came up with this idea for a video and was lucky enough to know some amazingly talented guys and we shot this in about an 8-hour span.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36TBZroRZ78

If enough people like this we will make more!