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    posted a message on The Sin War
    "Friday October 28, 2005"
    Blizz Con was over a long time ago.
    Posted in: Lore & Storyline
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    posted a message on The Sin War
    Even I can't answer that for sure, he might have wanted it destroyed so its corrupted power won't be used for evil, but that was before he knew what Baal intended to do with it.
    Another think that can raise a few thoughts is what came to be of the other pieces of the Soul Stones,
    of Mephisto's there are six more pieces, Baal's Soul Stone probably shattered into allot more pieces considering that the one that was chosen to contain him should have been the biggest despite its small size and in one of the old trailers of Diablo II we can see the wanderer drooping on hes way a chunk of
    what appears to be the Soul Stone which was probably too big to stick inside a head.


    Regarding Bartuc, I did read it, and it looked to me as if you were trying to present him and Baal as some sort of partners, which would not have been true even if it was the same Bartuc.


    But you may be right, maybe I am taking this too seriously.
    I guess that so many times seeing people answer to such issues with nonsense I could easily trace back guild suited up lore and fan fiction stories made me a bit more aggressive then I should be.
    Still, as a logical person I find it disappointing in some ways that I haven't yet came across someone who has sufficient knowledge in the lore Diablo in order to really delve into the more philosophical aspects of it.
    Posted in: Lore & Storyline
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    posted a message on The Sin War
    Stop, I can't take this any more, so many mistakes, so few lines.
    But first, if the trivia at Diablo Wiki and the old website of Nephalim (I think its down now) are your sources of information, neither is accurate.
    The Wiki is poor and most armature and Nephalim's site can obly be describes as fan fiction.
    I'll start by saying that Blood Raven was A Rouge who fought beneath Tristram, not THE Rouge, many a Rouges fought against the minions of Diablo and she was but only one of them, this goes the same as for the Summoner.
    Second, the Blizzard approved expansion for Diablo, Hell Fire, does not have any importance in means of lore, it does not fit with what came before it and not with what came after it.
    Third, the Hight Council of the Zakarum should usually consist, based on what we know, of seven High Council members and one Que-Hegan, the head of the council.
    The former Que-Hegan was Khalim and once slaughtered by the council priests was succeeded by Sankekur who became the new Que-Hegan.
    Fourthly, this is not the same Bartuc, the Warlord of Blood is dead, hes head dismembered and sent far away from the rest of hes body.
    And finally, I am personally glad I have no deep experience with the lore of other worlds because it can result in uncorrect prejudice.
    What happens to a soul, be it human, demon or angel in the wold of Diablo once its body is dead if far more complex, I currently am working on analyzing different examples but for now I can only say with certainty that you should consider this, why then, if Baal was nowhere near dead, did Tyrael send Marius to destroy hes Soul Stone at Hellforge.
    Posted in: Lore & Storyline
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    posted a message on The Sin War
    And about the bet suggestion, I don't think thats the case, in war you don't send a bunch of your best warriors to fight against a bunch of the enemies warriors and thus determine who wins the war or anything for that matter, and especially not in a war as vast as this.
    The puzzle is very simple if you take it one step at a time.
    When Izual was captured he gave the Prime Evils the secrets of the Soul Stones and probably also the secret of the World Stone, “The Worldstone, the ancient source of all the Soulstones and their power”.
    It is safe to assume that Heaven knew about the mortal realm for a lot of time, they have been using the power of the Soul Stones to their advantage in the war against Hell and through time, it might also have been the season for their rules of not interfering with man kind directly.
    A drawing that might raise a few thought can be found in the manual of the first Diablo, page 57, you can see an angel crushing a demon, a stone is chained to hes chest and in hes forehead there is what appears to be a Soul Stone.
    Now the Prime Evils, with the help of Izual needed a big and complex plan that will allow them to take over the mortal realm, gain control over some Soul Stones and then use them to corrupt the world stone, thus the Sin War had began.
    Hell made it very clear that they want to gain control over the mortal realm, that until now was not involved in the conflict, and Heaven, whether they wanted to protect the secret of their Would Stone or simply stop Heall where ever they might have found something that they can gain to their favor, followed.
    The Three stirred the conflict masterfully, always making it look as if it was meaningless until finally the rest of Hell had enough.
    The four Lesser Evils coalitioned together against the Prime Evils and after a great internal struggle in Hell, were able to exile them into the place they “loved” so much, the mortal realm.
    With the Three out of the way, the struggle between Hell and Heaven was once again diverted to the borders of the two realms.
    But what was happening on the mortal realm was exactly the opposite, now that the forces of Heaven were out of the way, and with no interference from those who are not loyal to them, the Three could had their way with Sanctuary.
    The Prime Evils waged continuous war over the mortal, and just as Izual had predicted, Tyrael finally made hes move.
    As we know, Tyrael was almost too sentimental when it came to humans and their suffering and was deeply involved with the humans during the Sin War, this can be seen in the book Demonsbane that takes place in the second stage of the Sin War, before the dark exile.
    Seeing the humans in and their suffering, he decided to band together a group of mortals and give them the Soul Stones so that they could trap the Prime Evils within them, they were given the name Horadrim.
    Whether their plan was to wait until the Horadrim brought the Soul Stones and then take them from the humans or to let the Horadrim imprison them, it was the later the took place.
    The Prime Evils were captured and during the time they spent inside the Soul Stones, they corrupted them, twisting their function to enable them to achieve their own goals.
    A couple of centuries later, the Three started to break free from their imprisonments one by one, and the rest, is history.
    So what was the Sin War?, certainly not a bold bet, getting the favor of the mortal was never the real issue as far at the Prime Evils were concerned.
    “The angel Tyrael has watched over the guardians or Arreat throughout history.
    I do mot believe that Baal and Tyrael have come here to fight over a paltry few souls.
    They are here to settle a conflict as old as time itself.”
    The Sin War was a cold and calculated move that ensured both the Three's exile to the mortal realm and gaining possession over the Soul Stones, humans were simply the ones who got stuck in the middle of it.
    Posted in: Lore & Storyline
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    posted a message on The Sin War
    I got it preordered about a month ago, it arrived just yesterday and I have only one and a half hours until the post office opens.
    Posted in: Lore & Storyline
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    posted a message on Act 4 Corrupted Tyrael End Boss
    And I don't think you have been paying enough attention, thinking it?, their saying it, and in all sorts of freakish ways.
    All ways are possible when switching sides be it by accident, self volition or imposement, the Balance works in mysterious ways, yet it is its doing and any shift of power, especially one that is big as this one must have a season, a justification, or be balanced at the opposite side, but having Tyrael turn evil at the dawn of the Diablo's return to the mortal realm doesn't make any sense.
    Posted in: Lore & Storyline
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    posted a message on The Sin War
    The terms might be a little vague but mixing them up like this gives me a headache.
    “The coming of the Great Conflict to the mortal realm is known as the Sin War.
    Angels and Demons, disguising themselves while traveling amongst men, attempted to secretly lure mortals to their respective causes.”
    The struggle between Heaven and Hell is called by mortal men The Great Conflict.
    The Sin War, the coming of the Great Conflict into the mortal realm is just a speck of this vast collision between good and evil.
    The Diablo series takes place between the years 1260-1265 to the Kehjistan count, (Probably set by the Vizjerei) thats about 700 years after the Dark Exile in 510, the event that marked the end of the period when both Heaven and Hell, hidden in the shadows, fought for the faction of men, when mortal champions rose up the ranks of both sides and when both angels and demons took a more active role in the shaping of Sanctuary's history.
    The period of the Dark Exile is greatly distinguished from the Sin War because once the forces of Hell abandoned the realm of men, so did the forces of Heaven, leaving the humans to the mercy of the exiled three.
    The lack of will by Heaven to help the mortals fight against the Three was the reason why Tyrael gave the soul stones the the Horadrim, and why it was considered to be “Against the wishes of Heaven”.
    Posted in: Lore & Storyline
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    posted a message on The Sin War
    It saddens me to see the people who are suppose to be the pioneers of Diablo III lack basic knowledge in the lore of Diablo.
    The Sin War is the straggle between the powers of Heaven and Hell over the Sanctuary, it began when the Three first diverted the war between Heaven and Hell upon the mortal realm as part of Izuals plan to let the Three gain control over the soul stones.
    The Sin War faded into a second phase once the Three were exiled into the mortal realm, this is known as The Dark Exile, the three still continued to wage war upon the humans but this time the majority of Hell did not back them up and where now once again fighting directly against the forces of Heaven and also between themselves.
    The Sin War finally came to a halt once the Three were captured by the Horadrim.
    In the book called The Tale of the Three, which was probably written by Lazarus, it is said that once the Three are reunited, the Sin War will once again spread across the mortal realm.
    Though at least one of the purposes of gaining control over the soul stones was clearly to use their powers to corrupt the World Stone as many prophecies had predicted, it is fair to say that the Three still have something to gain by taking over the mortal realm as we can see in the book Moon of the Spider that even though the World Stone is destroyed demons keep fighting for control over Sanctuary.
    So much for the lore of it, as for Diablo III, I hate speculating but yes, there is a chance that it will take place in the past during the time of the Sin War but I don't think that if that was to be the case then it will still be called Diablo III.
    The name will them probably be transformed the same as did Warcraft to World of Warcraft.
    Posted in: Lore & Storyline
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    posted a message on Act 4 Corrupted Tyrael End Boss
    Since the beginning of time, the angelic forces of the High Heavens and the demonic hordes of the Burning Hells have been locked in an eternal conflict for the fate of all Creation.”
    So can an archangel get a kick by watching humans struggle for the fate of their mortal souls against the demonic hoards of Hell?, he must be one hell of a twisted being, and I just can't see Tyrael this way.
    There are many things that just doesn't add up, why tangle with the worst of the worst only to be outwitted?
    It fits a human to think he can manipulate evil to do his bidding, but not an angel, and certainly not a great evil such as this.


    Now I'll admit, it doesn't really say anywhere that Heaven wants whats best for man kind, in fact, some of their attempts to eradicate evil at certain occasions resulted in hurting the same people they wanted to save.
    During the Cold War the US supported economically countries that were in threat of a Soviet takeover, to prevent what I think was called the domino effect and to stop Communism from spreading.
    In some ways, its the same, whether they do wish for the benefit of humanity or just don't give a dam is not relevant, it is best leave their agendas aside and focus more about the actions they are taking to help humans.
    Hell spreads through evil, it empowers the wicked over the righteous in this life and pray upon them in the next, Heaven on the other hand spreads itself through good, it teaches the righteous how to over come the wicked in this life evil and rewards them in the next.


    This is how the conflict goes, regardless of who, if any, is caught in the middle of it.
    Angels go where demons go and demos go where angels go, Sanctuary probably isn't the first realm they struggled over and will probably won't be the last.
    The conflict is maintained by a balance of good and evil, driven by any shift in the balance towards the side that is underpowered only to immediately shift again towards the first side thus maintaining a level amount of power on both sides that can in theory cancel out each other only to repeat the process all over again.


    Pawns on either side of the conflict can change sides as the balance shifts, this is known, but it must be a gigantic shift to tip over such a powerful weapon of good to the side of evil.
    Now I can already hear people say that there was a shift, the Prime Evils are dead.
    So first of all, there are strong evidence that say otherwise.
    Pandemonium level, that although it looks like a twisted patch bonus, does have a text of lore that explains it.
    And other text such as the ones from the Book of the Slayer that clearly show that we haven't seen the last of the Three: “Evil is eternal and so, too, are his minions.
    Slay one and another comes to take his place, changing its form
    and appearance until it becomes the twin of its dead brother.
    This is why the Prime Evils must be imprisoned, not slain.
    For if they are only slain, they will come forth in another form.”

    And secondly, if we really have seen the last of any of the Three, then there can't be a Diablo III.
    Posted in: Lore & Storyline
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    posted a message on Act 4 Corrupted Tyrael End Boss
    Good and Evil are not things that can just change for no reason.
    They make up the balance of the mortal world and other worlds as well, they are the scales of destiny, and as such, beings that participate in either side of the conflict usually have little to say in the matter.
    Any one who read the fourth book should know two important issues.
    First, Tyrael is still good, that after the Prime Evils are gone, that after the World Stone is destroyed, still the world needs to be saved and still Tyrael is there to help.
    The second thing is that in the book, Diablo and his brothers are still talked about as crucial factors in the future of Sanctuary and the overall hierarchy of Hell.
    True, so much for an opportunity for Tyrael to show his Evil side, but it is not a matter of guessing who suddenly turns evil or who suddenly turns good, this is a matter of direct continuity, of Diablo III.


    The World Stone was placed in the mortal world to serve as a barrier between it and other realms, this is why normally, Angels, Demons, Elements, Gods of sanctuary both old and new, Dreamers Nephalims, and countless other creatures from countless other realms could not interfere with the fate of men directly as long as the World Stone served its purpose.
    Many of there creatures took a more passive role in the fate of Sanctuary, each with its own side of the conflict.
    Now, that the World Stone is destroyed, who's to say they won't take a more active part, choosing to join the battle or better yet, rebuild the barriers between the realm of Sanctuary and the other realms.
    History had taught us that the powers of the magical fabric the World Stone weaved over the realm of Sanctuary could have been manipulated by mere mortals, yet alone gods.
    Different types of this barrier enchantment were used also in the game itself protecting the docks of Kurast and Harrogath.
    So although the World Stone was destroyed, it was still the lesser of the two evils and certainly not a part of a grand scheme Tyrael, the wicked mastermind, had instored for Sanctuary.
    Posted in: Lore & Storyline
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    posted a message on Act 4 Corrupted Tyrael End Boss
    Whenever a great evil comes unto the realm of man, a great good of the same scale follows and vise versa, with the single purpose of extinguishing the other.
    The balance is determined by how things turn out in the end, this is how it is has been since the beginning of time.
    To suggest that Tyrael is evil in any manner is preposterous, as it is clearly shown that he plays a most important part in tipping the balance towards the side of good.
    I cant see how people who have no clue about the lore of the game just find a character and say "Ooh, Cain might actually be evil and he will bring Diablo back to life", "What with that Tal Rasha person, he is still out there and he is evil", "Natalia is actually Andariel who is not dead and she destroyers the world".
    Enough I say, there are plenty of powers in the universe of Diablo that still have an effect on the balance between good and evil, be it gods, elements, dragons, and demons or angels both familiar and unfamiliar to us, but just taking a name you know and saying "He's actually a bad guy", thats not as near as what you would expect from a even the worst thing Blizzard can come out with.
    Posted in: Lore & Storyline
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    posted a message on Act 4 Corrupted Tyrael End Boss
    I loved it, but it's just me, I loved all the books.
    There are two major important things to take note of in the book.
    The first is that Tyrael is still a good guy and the second is that Diablo is mentioned there, as someone who still got alot of infualnce concerning the future of Sanctuary.
    http://sanctuary.info.googlepages.com/
    I've written it a few months ago, it's not realy going to update any time soon.
    Posted in: Lore & Storyline
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    posted a message on Act 4 Corrupted Tyrael End Boss
    I'm going to have to cut in and ask the crutial question of them all, did any one of you people read fourth book?
    It clearly shown there that there has been no great masterplan, Tyrael is, as always, one of the good guys.
    Posted in: Lore & Storyline
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