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  • 0

    posted a message on DEMO AREA at Diablo Stage!!!!HYPE
    Quote from skritsarngo-next

    I know blizzard is like the only game company that doesnt make games just for the sake of sales.

    Blizzard USED to be that way. Blizzard Activision is a different animal.
    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
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    posted a message on [Debate] Cheating in D3? What is cheating and what is not?
    Quote from Jarekexego-next

    Quote from sykoticgo-next

    Quote from Venalitergo-next

    Quote from BlacKcuDgo-next

    Quote from Venalitergo-next

    I really dont consider ThuD cheating. It shows you information that SHOULD be in game already; in particular, you're DPS and how skills/different legendary powers influence your character. ThuD is bending the rules to make the game make more sense / more enjoyable.


    Botting is outright cheating, and that's why I do not play Diablo 3 anymore.





    Just because you think it's ok doesn't make it ok. It's against the law (here blizz d3 TOS 2) and hence it is not allowed. This is a typical saying of any criminal hence, somebody using Thud is a criminal in the official sense.



    and I get that, in the strictest interpretation. But my argument is this: High level GR play is extremely flawed; the density and mob makeup is atrocious, and you NEED THud to actually complete most high level rifts because they are so broken. The definition of cheating is gaining an unfair advantage; THud just levels the playing field of a broken system.


    Sorry but your argument is ridiculous. THUD is CHEATING. How dense must people be not to understand this. It does not matter what you THINK should be a part of the game. IT ISN'T. Pure and simple. End of discussion. All the justification and BS "logic" you try and use to justify it does not change that fact. The definition is gaining an unfair advantage. You stated before that THUD is "bending" the rules, when its very design is breaking them. Allowing you to see things the game designers clearly never intended is breaking the rules and the TOS. In this sense you are gaining an unfair advantage over the game design, map design, other players who don't use it. and the RNG aspects of the mob types, and rift/ GR. Utterly sad that anyone can keep a straight face trying to justify this crap 1 page in let alone 7.

    The "debate" part of this discussion is simply allowing cheaters to try and justify why they cheat, and why we should not care.

    So pure and simple for you, right? But when you actually stop and think about it, and when you realize that Blizz has been silently allowing TH for years, you come to conclusion that you only have 2 options:
    - use TH and keep up with the competition
    - do not use TH and stay behind watching all the good fun passing you by hoping that Blizz fixes that, but we all know they wont
    If this is still simple for you, it means you're not interested in rankings, but then again why are you here discussing the issue that doesnt concern you?
    It is pure and simple. It is a Third Party Software. The issue of whether or not it allows me to compete for rankings is completely beside the point. It is a violation of the TOS and EULA that Blizzard set forth. I understand what TH users are saying, but understanding does not equal agreement. What "good fun passing you by" If you arent having fun the way the game was designed to be played, then use TH, but it as at your risk of being banned if / when Blizzard decides to act.

    No, rankings among people who have the benefit of THUD/ botting/ exploiting/ TPS using is not something I care about. Well, that is quite simple really. The fact ranking dont concern me matters not in the context of this discussion. The Thread title is "What is cheating and what is not?" Nowhere does that mention rankings.
    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
  • 0

    posted a message on Operation Man vs Bot
    Quote from SadoSpawngo-next

    Someone should take down the RosBot website.
    Also, get a hold of all the info of its users and expose them all.

    +1......would be AWFULLY interesting to see some names on there.I would gladly pay to see people try and worm their way out of that......lol
    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
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    posted a message on Streamer goes to sleep. Bots openly on stream.
    Quote from sarkoziggo-next

    p742 at the moment after one day ban? It's sick...




    Haha, indeed. http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/RedX-1598/hero/69066606 paragon 702. what the hell.


    The benefits of being carried and given all the gear he needs right off the bat. Must be nice to have mindless clan mates who will support a cheating lowlife.

    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
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    posted a message on [Debate] Cheating in D3? What is cheating and what is not?
    Quote from Venalitergo-next

    Quote from BlacKcuDgo-next

    Quote from Venalitergo-next

    I really dont consider ThuD cheating. It shows you information that SHOULD be in game already; in particular, you're DPS and how skills/different legendary powers influence your character. ThuD is bending the rules to make the game make more sense / more enjoyable.


    Botting is outright cheating, and that's why I do not play Diablo 3 anymore.



    Just because you think it's ok doesn't make it ok. It's against the law (here blizz d3 TOS 2) and hence it is not allowed. This is a typical saying of any criminal hence, somebody using Thud is a criminal in the official sense.

    and I get that, in the strictest interpretation. But my argument is this: High level GR play is extremely flawed; the density and mob makeup is atrocious, and you NEED THud to actually complete most high level rifts because they are so broken. The definition of cheating is gaining an unfair advantage; THud just levels the playing field of a broken system.
    Sorry but your argument is ridiculous. THUD is CHEATING. How dense must people be not to understand this. It does not matter what you THINK should be a part of the game. IT ISN'T. Pure and simple. End of discussion. All the justification and BS "logic" you try and use to justify it does not change that fact. The definition is gaining an unfair advantage. You stated before that THUD is "bending" the rules, when its very design is breaking them. Allowing you to see things the game designers clearly never intended is breaking the rules and the TOS. In this sense you are gaining an unfair advantage over the game design, map design, other players who don't use it. and the RNG aspects of the mob types, and rift/ GR. Utterly sad that anyone can keep a straight face trying to justify this crap 1 page in let alone 7.

    The "debate" part of this discussion is simply allowing cheaters to try and justify why they cheat, and why we should not care.
    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
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    posted a message on Streamer goes to sleep. Bots openly on stream.
    Quote from Mad_Tomgo-next
    Cheaters gonna cheat. Botters gonna bot.

    New account, same cheater playing/ botting it. Only difference is he will very likely remember to turn his stream off from now on.
    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
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    posted a message on BlizzCon 2015 - Diablo is dead

    A 1 hour panel time does not indicate the game is dead. However by all accounts, it is in some serious need of new blood.


    The state of the game today is in a serious decline. If you compare it to Diablo 2, after only 3 years to have it be at the point it is at is a damn shame. Diablo 2 is 15 years old, and LOD is 14. I logged in to D2 tonight and there were 18435 users in 17927 games at 1115pm. Granted there are a fair amount of those that are player bots or spam bots, but to have it generate that kind of playerbase 15 years after release is amazing. In contrast, in D3 the TOTAL number of public games at 1120pm tonight over ALL Difficulty levels and all 5 tags was 652 (yes I was so bored I counted) When you only have that many games open to players in Diablo 3 three years in it is time to start rethinking things. Granted, this is only the Americas server, you still have Europe and Asia, and you still have private games, but the writing is on the wall. Even with the amount of players who are in private games that are likely botting, some people in groups pushing rifts, and others who just play with friends or clan members, I frankly doubt there are as many people on D3 as there are on D2 tonight. I could be wrong, but since Blizzard did away with the /users command in D3 we will never know for sure.


    They need to have something new and BIG in the works if they want this game to still have a playerbase in a few years. Either that, or release a few more bugfixes and season patches and move on to Diablo 4.

    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
  • 1

    posted a message on [Debate] Cheating in D3? What is cheating and what is not?

    LMAOL
    You all are seriously a joke.

    A bunch of cheaters crying about others cheaters. Just pointing fingers and naming each other.

    It's ridiculous.


    Guess what?


    A lot of top players use or used bot.

    A lot of top players use or used 3rd party programs.

    A lot of top players exploited the shit out of this game. Numlock macro is an exploit, deal with it (use of ingame mechanic by means not intended by Blizz)!

    Every top player and twitch streamer use TH. Don't even start on "you don't have physical proof". You use it, everyone knows (you never hit dead ends on GRs for f*** sake, you open that map all the time, you rush through bad floors in a blink... c'mon, you guys think everyone is stupid? lol).


    And Guess what again??! All the above is a direct violation of EULA and TOS. All are bannable offenses and you are just doing extra hours in Diablo 3.

    You guys are trying to make a escale about what kind of cheat is bannable.


    Get this inside your heads: THEY ARE ALL FORBIDDEN, YOU ALL HAVE BEEN STREAMING THEM FOR MONTHS NOW. THEY ALL VIOLATE THE SAME RULE IN EULA/TOS. THEY ALL ARE BANNABLE OFFENSES.


    Every top player and streamer has played with someone on the group that used the above. Why did you not report them? Because they are friend? Nice huh? Bullshit! You took advantage by cheating and playing with other cheater(s).



    Who cheats in any level or in anyway can't talk shit about the situation. You are part of the problem, not the solution.


    PS.: That open letter to Devs from streamers and top players was one of the most hypocritical, funny and butthurt things I have ever seen.

    BY FAR.

    A bunch of cheaters complaing about others that cheat harder.

    LMFAOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Quoting again just because of how beautiful this post is. Maybe not the most eloquent way to get it across, but it is on point.


    The sad part is that so many of the posters in the last few threads about botting / cheating will ignore it because they know it is true and don't wanna hear it.......Also props to Drahque for your response. At least you admit it which is more than I can say for a lot of you.
    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
  • 1

    posted a message on Playtime is NOT a proof for botting.

    Quote from wqwfstgo-next

    I know players who do this or Num-Lock skills to keep a game open while they are sleeping. They do this when they had decent loot in the game. In Season 3 it happened that you didn't find a Kridershot for a week and then voila 3 Kridershots in less than 2h in the same game... For this reason several player had / have a very high playtime aswell.


    So you are saying that you keep games open while you are sleeping because of loot servers? C'mon, gimme a break! First it was your underage child that was playing every night and farming keys - now you just idle in-game without doing anything? You and Drahque are ridiculous. :ban:


    No offense but you and Drahque need to air your dirty laundry somewhere else. It is getting old already.
    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
  • 0

    posted a message on Playtime is NOT a proof for botting.
    Quote from pewpewgo-next

    I think 1 % of the people botting, with extremely high paragon numbers, have children..

    source = none.


    This part struck me as odd. You cannot tell who is a bot simply by a high paragon number.

    If you really look at it, the people with the highest paragon numbers are not getting them from botting. They are likely part of 4 man rotations speed running 65+ grifts for hours on end. In the Open Letter against Botting thread, most estimates (or maybe from experience ) put the BEST numbers for botting at around 40-50 billion xp/hour. With the right optimized group you are making 300-400+ billion an hour or more speed running high GRifts. Even if you bot all day you are still earning less xp than a well formed group going at it for 3-5 hours. Not saying that people who bot do not have high paragon numbers, but to be fair, most of the high end paragon numbers come from group running, not just solo botting. Maybe some people are doing both, but they arent getting high paragon levels soloing.

    Now botting as part of a group is always a possibility, but I imagine that would get noticed fairly quickly by the group and stopped. Also, I USED to think that botting in a group would be unheard of (a death sentence for your account). Now with Blizzards lackadaisical stance lately I am not so sure.

    Point is that Paragon levels only or high playtime only is simply not a basis for throwing the "Botting" tag onto a player. Unless Blizzard can definitively tell who is using TPS and who is not, we are all just throwing accusations and speculating who is and who is not using a bot.

    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
  • 0

    posted a message on Open Letter against Botting
    Quote from cying




    thud is cheating. flat out. you saying it provides features that shouldve been there is like a botter saying blizzard shouldve allowed innate automated playing and looting. like...what??? what are you even thinking?? cheaters saying the cheat is acceptable EXCEPT FOR THE MAPHACK PORTION because it shouldve been there? wow...just wow.
    Amen brother. Amen.
    The logic from the THUD supporters in this thread is simply astounding. "THUD is everything the DIablo 3 HUD should have been." Well, it isn't and THUD is software from a third party, so hmmmmm, why did that REALLY get left out of the letter. I wonder....
    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
  • 0

    posted a message on Open Letter against Botting



    Personally, I play more on the casual side. Never even look at leaderboards, never attempted to get on them, and don't pay much attention to the more competitive side of D3. I like to consider myself "decent enough" at the game (Almost 800 paragon, pretty good gear on my fav characters, could handle 60-65 rifts) but totally nothing special. But I could totally understand from the perspective of a legitimate player looking to play more seriously that it could be pretty defeating to only see the cheaters winning and totally agree something should be done about it.



    By your statement you could handle 65. That could put you on every leaderboard except monk. How do these top end players make the assumption that people on the leaderboards are botters. They could very well level that accusation if you were on them. They can say anything they want to about people botting, but how do they KNOW that ANYONE on the leaderboards are. Simple answer : They don't. They are leveling unsubstantiated accusations against others. The finger could just as easily be pointed back at them. We would have the same proof of their botting as they have against anyone else.

    I am by NO means saying that there are no players on the leaderboards that have exploited the TOS by using bots. I am simply saying until Blizzard takes action, we have no proof that any of them have. We all know there are botters out there, but this letter comes from the "part of the community that engages in the Competitive aspects". They are only complaining about the impact on the Leaderboards and Conquests. Period. It states that in the opening paragraph. JUst because you assume that someone used illicit means to compete with you does not make it true.

    Lets say that they ban all botters at the moment and remove all said names from the leaderboards. I hesitate to think that it will have much of an impact in the top end of the leaderboards that the signatories are in. Playstyle, reaction time, fishing for grifts, snapshotting, THUD, key macros, num lock all have more to do with the top end of the competitive aspect of the leaderboards. A bot can only do so much. After getting all the gear you need, you still need to be able to complete the higher level grifts. Different players have different skills. Just because you have all the mats, keys , gear you need does not make everyone capable of competing for the top 1% on the leaderboards.


    Just hope Blizzard ends the season, removes and bans all botters, and lets us move on with all of our lives and the game.

    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
  • 1

    posted a message on Open Letter against Botting
    Quote from Nachtengo-next

    Quote from Bagstonego-next


    "it seems to be that the vocal minority is quite strong on this one with the urge to fight back to defend their botting. "







    Quote from Bagstone (Page 2)

    "Our letter and this thread is about botting. I don't think there are two different opinions about bots (unless you're a botter), something you cannot say about other issues."





    Meanwhile by your own words those of us calling for ALL CHEATERS to be punished "are defending our botting". I have to say that is disappointing especially coming from you.


    We're not talking about solutions to the problem, we're not talking about anything around the issue, we're talking about botting.




    So whats your opinion on a solution? Paragon Cap in Season? Captcha like mentioned so often? Something else?
    I*m realy interested to hear something additional than all this already mentioned stuff.



    First off I don't know if there is a 100% viable solution to the problem since Blizzard has let it get so far out of hand as it stands today.

    If Blizzard can truly detect Bots, and not just "bot like behavior" then at least we have a starting point. However if they just go after anyone who has 12 plus hours of playtime a day for example, then you could be banning a great number of legitimate players mistakenly. People go on binges with this game, they leave the game on and sit in menus for 6 hours, they enter and leave games repeatedly looking for the perfect grifts, they run endless rifts back to back with no let up except maybe a few minutes break. That can all be looked at as behavior that is "bot like". But the real question remains if their system in place can currently detect 3rd party programs playing the game, because if they cannot, then ZERO bans should be handed out.

    Now, on the other side of the coin, if Blizzard CAN see that third party programs are reading memory, injecting any commands into the game, or anything else that these programs can do, then by all means, ban them. Ban them all. Any and every player that uses a 3rd party program.

    Now for arguments sake, lets say they do not take that road. Lets say they realize that removing bots would severely impact their playerbase on a daily average. Lets say they find an alternate measure.

    Assuming they can identify bot users, one "solution" if they choose not to undertake a massive ban wave would be to flag these players accounts, in a visible way that ANY and ALL players can see. Lets say a new icon like a player portrait that cannot be changed, or maybe an asterisk next to their name when they log in or a message to all players when they join a party. Another harsher alternative would be something that may be too difficult to implement, but lets say any player who has been VERIFIED of botting is restricted from joining public games. They can play on their own or with clan/friendslist players, HOWEVER, if a GRift is opened in a group, no player who is flagged can join with other people. They can make their own GRifts, and they can push high GRifts, but they will not appear on the leaderboards, but there will always be a way to tell if the person has been/is a bot user.

    In addition, I think that the paragon system is simply out of hand. I think paragon should be harder to obtain, and be limited to 800 points in season. Non season should be unlimited, but for competitive play it is simply too powerful and provides too much of a bonus in damage. I have completed GRift 55 on my monk and will be slowly pushing it to 60 if I can, and for that I am proud. However there is ZERO chance of me competing with players who have 1300 or 1600 paragon levels. Cap it at 800 for seasons and it might also be time for an overhaul of the available pages/choices on the paragon system. That however is a different discussion.

    Captcha systems would work to a point, but would also annoy a lot of legit players who simply get tired of entering it. Also, when would the captcha come up......Beginning, mid game, would it pause the game, would it come up in the middle of a boss fight, would it come up when you just killed the boss and have 10 seconds to turn in the rift ? Things could go worse because of them.

    You wanted possible solutions. That would be mine.


    PS - Nachten You mistakenly changed the part of my quote from Bagstone's name to Arydor. (I changed it back for you)

    No idea why that happened, but lets keep the accusations with who actually said them.

    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
  • 2

    posted a message on Open Letter against Botting
    Quote from Bagstonego-next

    "it seems to be that the vocal minority is quite strong on this one with the urge to fight back to defend their botting. "


    Quote from Bagstone (Page 2)

    "Our letter and this thread is about botting. I don't think there are two different opinions about bots (unless you're a botter), something you cannot say about other issues."



    For someone who is preaching to stay on topic and avoid the name calling and accusations, I would say to read what you yourself wrote. You leveling accusations like that (twice in this thread in 2 separate comments ) is better in exactly what way ? How is it justifiable in your eyes to call anyone in this thread a botter ? What proof do you have ?

    You mention people leveling accusations against signatories of the open letter. You ask what proof there is of that, well, open admission from at least 2 of them have been quoted in these last 10 pages. There have already been posts detailing accounts of botting/ account sharing/ turbohud using by several of your signers. However I guess that is something we can overlook because they are internet stars and we are not.

    Meanwhile by your own words those of us calling for ALL CHEATERS to be punished "are defending our botting". I have to say that is disappointing especially coming from you.

    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
  • 0

    posted a message on Open Letter against Botting

    This whole argument is comical to me.


    Diablo 3 will never be able to do what you petitioners want it to, and to be honest if it did, that list have fewer names backing it. If Diablo took a stance on Botting, they would likely have to take the same stance on ALL forms of cheating. This means your precious THUD should be banned as well. This means that you players sharing your account EVEN once should be a banned offense. That means if you have used any exploit even once you should be banned. I have to giggle to think how many of your accounts would be banned then.


    You cannot cherry pick which evils you want to remove without coming across as insincere. For those arguing this thread is not about THUD, by MeatHeadMikhails logic, you are all THUD users. The simple fact is you can know there are bots, turbohuds, account sharers out there and simply not care. Just because someone doesnt feel the same way about it that you do does not mean they endorse it or use it. To think that way is simply childish and inane.


    We all know there are botters in the game. We all know there are THUD users. We all know that people share there accounts. SO DOES BLIZZARD. If you ask them to ban one, you need to ask them to ban all. That is the only way your precious leaderboard will EVER be legitimate.

    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
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