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I think I just don't like how dmg multipliers seem to have become the focus of gears. It feels uninteresting to me. I would much rather have no dmg multipliers on gear, and instead have purely functional legendary affixes/set bonuses, such as with Carnevil, The Swami, Madstone, Ranslor's Folly and Leonine Bow of Hashir. Uliana's for the 6pc bonus is actually 1 of my favourite things about D3 (prior to being buffed in 2.4.1), as it can synergise so well with gungdo and/or madstone. I feel that giving players the option to equip anything they want, to suit their own personal playstyle, should have been the initial design goal. Ideas like ancients, augmenting and paragon could have been introduced beyond this point, to provide infinite progression.

Damage multipliers (largely from sets) hurt build diversity, and the devs' response was to introduce a set which allows more freedom in item choice (legendaries as opposed to sets), by applying yet another dmg multiplier. This seems like a lazy approach which fails to correct the issue.

Quote from Hayabaxa»

I think it's intended by Blizzard and what if they made even non-ancients count too? All I hear is people whining about the progression being too fast, this would only make this relatively slow "build" even faster. I think they should keep it this way, something to aim for later on in the end game and something that takes a little more effort to gather rather than full 6-p set.

xoxo

Quote from Snowflakesz»

If you didn't reroll Chest to 3 sockets, reroll goldfind to Elite Damage Reduction.

Quote from Autiwa»

I agree with your idea to apply a lower bonus to non ancient legendaries. The idea is that : AFAIK LoN is designed for TX content, and we should be able to use it early on, not as an end-game set no ones play because you don't have the gear.

But LoN is also an end-game build for some classes (DH and Cruise at least), so if we change it, we have to make sure it doesn't break that in one way or the other.

I notice that armor has been retained on pants and chest, which seems wasteful to me, particularly when armor on chest can be re-rolled to 11% elite dmg reduction, or earthquake dmg. I also notice move speed has been retained on the boots, where ancient spear dmg would likely be preferred (shifting the move speed to paragon).

The free set in seasons is the biggest problem though... it makes any non-set build worthless. The closest alternative we have is LoN, which is still a set (albeit much less restrictive - less gear slots required), however since we can't make any use of it until we have a multitude of ancients, we are essentially forced into playing using sets at season start.

In my understanding, Blizzard wants to make cohesive build construction a reality for casual and invested players, from early game (offers free sets very quickly in seasons, and high drop chance) into late game (ancient tier, augs, paragon - with enough main stat from paragon any build is possible). So what I don't understand is the current state of LoN. The issue I see is that the ring set itself provides literally no bonus if the player has no ancients; this is a problem because it makes the ring extremely unrewarding, if picked up too early in the game. As a requirement of the LoN set, and to make it comparable to other build options (sets), you need to outweigh any dmg bonus on the set, before LoN will even be worth considering. Ex: Let's say a given set provides 500% dmg bonus. This means that before LoN can even be considered as a realistic option, you need to have 5 ancient items = 500% dmg bonus. This acts to further delay the use of LoN, which turns it into an end-game set (essentially unusable before end-game).

So my question is this:

Why is LoN bonus restricted to ancients? The set would be far more useful throughout the game if it also gave a bonus for legendaries; obviously, the bonus from ancients should be higher, making ancients more rewarding. I would personally like to see legs give 70% each, and ancients give 100%, this would give the following figures (assuming all 13 gear slots are occupied).

Full Leg:

70 x 13 = 910% dmg bonus

6 Leg + 7 Ancient (roughly 50/50)

70 x 6 = 420

100 x 7 = 700

420 + 700 = 1120% dmg bonus

Full Ancient:

100 x 13 = 1300% dmg bonus

I think this setup would make LoN far more attractive in early game, without restricting playstyle.

Note: Giving a player a specific set for free is restrictive, because no standard legendaries can currently compete against it. Basically, once you have a set that's it, there's no reason to switch it until you get either a better set, or your full ancient LoN set.

Sorry to repeat myself, but just so this is abundantly clear; the option for ALL main stats, as opposed to ONLY your native stat will eventually (after a long time) allow you to incorporate an additional build changing legendary, by swapping dmg reduction off of a gear slot and providing that reduction via paragon instead (armor + dodge + block all combined at high levels). The combined values, factoring in diminishing returns on each separate defensive stat, should be enough to allow 1 and no more than 2 (at an extreme stretch) defensive items to be shifted off of a build. To give an estimate, I'd say around 750 points in 3 of the Core stats would ideally provide enough dmg mitigation to switch out 1 item. This means that a player should ideally be at Plvl 2850 for the 1st item switch, and Plvl 5100 or higher for the 2nd item switch.

I would personally consider the option to swap in a build changing item to be highly valuable (although dependent on affix creativity), which hopefully provides enough incentive to funnel into non-native mainstat as Plvl increases.

@wiwh:

The need to forsake dps for mitigation on gear would only be present at low plvl, after which point, the mitigation is shifted to paragon rather than gear, making it a non-issue. Also, Plvl is relatively easily obtained, as evidenced by seasons. Again, this proposal takes no interest in catering to lower plvls, but rather intends to extend the usefulness of paragon, through minor changes to the current system..

Quote from Shapookya»

Some of those changes are out of place, imo. For example the buff to All resists. Isn't that already the most desired stat from those 4? Why make it even stronger?

Also the core stats wouldn't change as long as you give +dmg from a mainstat. There is no reason to put your points in Dex as barb. Sure, you get dodge, but you lose out on dmg, so it's not an option.

It isn't aimed so much at balancing the overall paragon system, but rather stat distribution. Changing the mechanics of mainstats means that we are required to pour more paragon into Vit as we climb higher in difficulties (read as GR), as opposed to simply pumping into mainstat for dmg. In order for Vit to be an attractive option vs dmg, it would be necessary to drop raw defense off of mainstats. To compensate, supp defense is then added; as a result, gearing options are expanded (i.e use of "on block" items for either defensive OR offensive builds). As stated in the initial post, THIS IS NOT INTENDED AS A LONG-TERM FIX, it's simply an idea which could act as middle-ground, and which requires minimal alteration to the existing structure.

Regarding "power creep". The entire point of this change is to reduce the amount of paragon points spent in your character's native mainstat, without providing any direct compensation; instead placing emphasis on skill variation and gear selection to facilitate further growth. I can only speak for myself, but I don't consider build exploration to be the same thing as power creep.

For instance, I would consider a significant buff to a set to be power creep, while I would consider the option to equip an unaltered piece of gear which provides a dmg bonus, in place of a piece of gear which provides dmg reduction, to be build exploration.

Hiya peepz.

I've been giving some thought as to what simple changes (as opposed to a complete overhaul) could be made to paragon, following recent discussion on the topic, and a clear view (indicated by poll results) that the community would like some kind of change. I know there was quite an in-depth suggestion made a fair while back, which included raised caps on numerous stats, as well as the addition of various proc effects and what-not. I would consider that implementation to be an overhaul, and thus less simple to design and balance appropriately; this translates to a lengthier development stage, higher costs, and overall a lower chance that the changes would be made.

Given the above statements, I am looking to get some feedback on some minor (mostly) changes, which would be simpler to balance, in the hopes of finding a middle ground, and hopefully improving our chances of seeing some change in the more-foreseeable (as opposed to distant) future.

Specifically, I would like feedback in terms of;

Reception (How do you feel about the changes?)

Balancing (Do you feel that each stat provides a reasonable bonus?)

Long-term effects (What impact would you expect on Plvl 5k+?).

Here we go.

Firstly, a slightly less minor change, to support changes to paragon. Change mainstat bonuses to the following;

Str:

DMG multiplier for Str classes AND provides block chance (very minor gain per point. Calculate as with CDR/dodge chance - diminishing returns)
No longer provides armor.

Dex:

DMG multiplier for Dex classes AND provides dodge chance.
No longer provides armor.

Int:

DMG multiplier for Int classes AND provides thorns (low gain per point).

- Provides uncapped thorns via paragon.
- Provides a minor dmg source for Int classes as opposed to survivability (suits the glass cannon playstyle).

No longer provides all res.

Vit:

HP and Armor
Provides the 2 most effective stats for survivability, which should make it more attractive vs pure mainstat, particularly with armor/res coming off of mainstat.

Note:
All point distribution caps remain the same (Str, Dex, Int, Vit are uncapped. Everything else capped at 50).

Core (For ALL classes):

Str - Provides Str, which in turn provides block chance, which is otherwise unseen on anything but Crusader.
Dex - Provides Dex, which in turn provides dodge chance, which is otherwise unseen (in reliable quantities) on anything but Monk.
Int - Provides Int, which in turn provides Thorns, which may help to make Thorns focused builds more competitive/stay relevant.
Vit - Provides Vit, which in turn provides reliable survivability.

Offense:

No changes.

Defense:

Life - No change.
Armor - No change.
All Res - Provides +10 All Res AND +0.5% Resistance (applies to all res AND single res) per point.
Life Regen - Provides +100 Life Regen AND +0.5% Life Regen per point.

Utility:

Area Damage - No change.
Resource Cost Reduction (renamed to "Resource Management" for clarity) - Combine maximum resource bonus (originally from Core tab) into this bonus.
Life on Hit - Provides +50 Life on Hit AND +0.5% Life on Hit per point.

REMOVE Gold Find and REPLACE WITH...
Move Speed - Provides +0.5% Move Speed AND increases Max Move Speed by 0.2% per point.

The Benefits:

1) Block based items can be adopted more readily (including Justice Lantern and Defender of Westmarch).
2) Dodge can be used by all classes as supplementary toughness.

- Makes other mantras attractive to monks (rather than just Salvation - Agility).

3) Additional thorns focused builds may emerge, and helps to keep LoN/Invoker Thorns comparable as power creep occurs.
4) Offering multiple sources of toughness for all classes reduces need to stack dmg reduction - opening up more gear slots for build diversity.
5) Shifting direct dmg reduction off of mainstat and onto Vit helps to curb the practice of stacking mainstat as plvl grows.

- For clarity, mainstat in this case refers to the stat associated with dmg multiplier for a given class.

6) Providing a % bonus on All res can curb the need for stacked single res on secondaries, opening up more options for proc on hit/ life per kill/ globe radius, etc.

- Opening up options for proc on hit may also provide reliable CC, which may lead to more build diversity, and better synergy.

- examples: stun on hit + haunt of vaxo / knockback on hit + strongarm bracers / freeze on hit + rhimeheart

7) I personally find life regen to be lackluster and I think my recommendation for a % bonus will help to re-align HP regen with max HP.

- May also open up possibilities for Death's Bargain in the future, although the dmg calc is inefficient for this leg affix atm. It should really be designed to function as Thorns does, gaining dmg bonus according to mainstat.

8) I also find Life on Hit to be poorly aligned with current potential for max HP values, the change would help to re-align HP recovery with max HP.
9) Increasing max move speed by 10% (to a total of 35%) makes move speed on an item valuable again (I'm looking at you Compass Rose and boots).

- Also aids in speed farming and reduces the need for teleport-type skills - giving us back a skill slot and offering wider build diversity.

EDIT:

Heart of Iron would cause issue with a thorns build, but I imagine this could be remedied fairly easily by modifying the leg affix, possibly such that the bonus to thorns was not reliant on a particular mainstat, or where the bonus is associated with the highest non-vit mainstat.

Yup, GMaps is just a nickname.

Quote from springfield12»

I didn't use bot, macros, and turboH; yet, I still got banned. Anyone else got banned for things other than bot and thud?

Someone has no faith in DH. *points to the poll* (DH is missing, WD is up there 2x)

"and to be clear, pretty much everything out of Gaby's mouth is total horse shit"

You mean to say that you understood any of the "words" that came out of Gaby's mouth? Seriously, I watched the vid, I got the gist of what happened, but I couldn't for the life of me understand WTF Gaby was saying.