To be honest I'm not sure how/why posts that aren't on topic aren't deleted. Mods please.
On topic:
It would solve a lot of problems if the legendary affix of zodiac ring affected every cool down as long as it is on cool down, regardless of the order and amount of cd's used.
Let me explain that, I shouldn't be able to sit on a cool down and have the ring "bank" cdr so as to be able to chain pop AC or a law or IS, but there are situations where it is necessary to use all cd's together and the ring in its current state can make that quite difficult. I'd love to see the reliance on cdr lessened, after experiencing play with a build that uses a lot of before cooldown toughness and a build that has its toughness invested in cd's I prefer the former. Not being forced into mandatory cdr rolls feels amazing, the two set and the ring give you those options.
That's just me though, perhaps I'm just sick of the Akkhan set and how unrewarding that style of stat stacking actually is in terms of time spent for what you get out of it.
Sorry dude you have no argument, gr 50 is high. Not being able to discern the difference between something being a high mark and a standard is pretty stupid when you think about it, clearly from your posts you can't do that. Which is fine, I could really care less. In the meantime, either post experiences/thoughts on the set and play mechanics or spend your time arguing semantics for no good reason.
All the time in the world for trolls who want to shit post dude. L2 english.
Shield glare seems to affect every add, elite or not. The only time you will see immunity is for shielded elites, or affixes that are go off regardless of cc.
Just from the change without playing you can tell its finally viable. But with all the cheese on ptr.... : But seems perfectly viable even without the ring that they should have just given the leg affix "you are immune to damage" XD
High Gr isnt rlay 30++... One would say 40, but honestly even hc wws do 40+ on live... xD But ye, for a non unity its like 37+ for everything else its 42-44+
What cheese?
High gr would be 50 + and Spongebob hit it yesterday with a 51 in rolands. XD Check out the official forums bro he's got vids of his clears, pretty good stuff. You can see the lag in some cases and its pretty atrocious.
You are actually with me on this, i told the same, its perfectly viable.
Cheese means a lot of stuff will be changed/nerfed, thats making insane builds possible now. And there are quite some bugs these builds use as well. Its a huge cheesecake with cheese topiing all over it, and some cheese sauce sparkled on it. Almost any class can do 50 and + on ptr now eyes closed Well aside form the lagg.... But i highly doubt blizzard gonna leave all thes einfinite resource, perma imunity 0 cooldown 100% chc builds all up. Well im 99% sure they wont,
But dont get me wrong roland gonna be pretty damn strong.
for your comment tho:
50-52 is the highest achieved(some barb exceptions) for most classes, so thats ultimate end game for now, we spoke about higher/high GR-s. So calling the baseline 50 is funny, please only do that if you cleared it with 2 classes or so.
Saying High gr is 50 /= gr 50 baseline.Lean to read for comprehension. Please do not put words in my mouth. Also feel free to post your progress here with a Rolands set up, this thread is for everyone after all.
To be honest there is always something better than punish for gr's, the only thing that could change that is a re work of the Akarat's Awakening shield. If that were to be bumped to 50% from 25%, with the proc guarenteeed then it may actually be workable with a Bloodbrother.
As far as weps go, at the moment I'd say Ancient HS or Furnace for a phys build , Fire could be ancient maximus or ancient golden flense. Love needed for flense though. The increased cdr that you get via Obsidian ring syncs very well with any sweep rune, but its not enough in and of itself.
Would love to see the Flense have updates to it, I don't believe that its blizzards intent that there be a stand alone sweep build. The itemization just isn't there yet. However it should be able to be played as an acceptable stand in for a furnace/hs. Some ways to go about this may be to raise the base damage on 2h flails. The only thing that should do more damage in base catagory is a 2h mace. Secondly the affix of the flail. As far as wrath gen goes, it works as advertised. Simply put with the mechanics of the current sweep runes the wrath gen isn't enough by itself to make flense worth taking in light of the lower base damage and lack of damage increasing legendary power or elemental affix.
How to increase the legendary power though? Effect of every rune is an option and would open us up to having synergy with the Blizzcon Elemental ring, something we don't currently have. This set has stack managing mechanics for days, so I'm not sure that more stacks to manage is the answer.
A legendary power that worked in the reverse of the bash bracers could be introduced as well.
The "jay" in blue would be me, to avoid any confusion.
Haven't run since last night, dropped 2 spots since then. Swapped the Zodiac ring for Broken promises, in lieu of gear the damage bonus is nice. Once we have gear Zodiac may over take, for the moment though as I'm building toughness all the damage I can get matters. Every rift that I placed on to date has been a combo of a1 mobs. With the lag we get anything other than that can lock connection, for me anyway.
Just from the change without playing you can tell its finally viable. But with all the cheese on ptr.... : But seems perfectly viable even without the ring that they should have just given the leg affix "you are immune to damage" XD
High Gr isnt rlay 30++... One would say 40, but honestly even hc wws do 40+ on live... xD But ye, for a non unity its like 37+ for everything else its 42-44+
What cheese?
High gr would be 50 + and Spongebob hit it yesterday with a 51 in rolands. XD Check out the official forums bro he's got vids of his clears, pretty good stuff. You can see the lag in some cases and its pretty atrocious.
Haven't had a good one drop, I have had some other drops witch allowed me to go to 34 mill toughness before any cd's, need to craft an ancient prio though.
I may be wrong here but doesn't piro have a chance to roll higher block % (I'm thinking more damage from this) than FW? 70 shields crafted yesterday and only 3 ancients so hoping for better luck today. I'll keep my eye out for a FW in the meantime, thanks for the heads up mang : )
Survival may be an issue. With the extreme lag rotating defense skills is a massive issue. Build is very very weak to ranged mobs of any type lag or not I feel quite confidant in that. I have to play with the different laws, however at gr 37+ through unity, Iron skin(steel skin rune) Decaying strength I was seeing instant proc's of Indestructible from groups of mobs 10+. If there were ranged mobs shooting me off screen there was a death, unavoidable due to lag. Now this is just first brush, I was only running for 40 or so minutes for that gr 42. That was the second rift I attempted at that level, first one failed due to massive lag. When I say massive I mean hitting a defensive and waiting 5-7 seconds for it to actually go off. Massive.
AC prophet is at the moment necessary. Steel skin/Decaying strength by themselves are no where near enough protection for the damage you can see. Even then due to the in your face nature of the build you still take a thrashing, certain affix/mob combinations are an instant proc of prophet/Indy. In live I've not seen that happen with either of my AC builds, so again taken with a grain of salt this could be lag.
These runs were done with no ancient items, I lucked out and found an Obsidian Ring, and it may be mandatory after a certain point to use this and unity. There is a way to game the legendary affix to give a great deal more uptime on AC:Prophet via the ring, It takes practice I'm not anywhere near max uptime on the skill due to a lack thereof.
From a defensive standpoint this set is still behind any AC build in my opinion and by a fairly wide margin. Its playstyle is however far more complex and using the shield bash skill in a defensive manner to create an out for yourself is do able. Perhaps with far less lag I'd have an idea if you could use sb in this way reliably till then no idea.
Damage wise the build clears trash on par with an AC build with some clear advantages. You can snipe large adds/elite packs with the bracers to game the timer. Where AC builds rely on or create their own density, this build thrives in lower pop rifts. The damage of sheild bash is not overpowered in the slightest at gr 40+, not op at 35+ either. It is what is necessary for the build to function. Was not able to test sweep, however looking at the BASE damge difference between a 2h flail, 2h polarm, 2h mace I'd say that a Golden Flense setup NOW would lose to either a furnace or heart slaughter. Handily.
Wrath management: The other side of AC being necessary for myself at the moment. I'll have to see how different focuses on my sets play out, in an ideal would I would be able to test a CDR,RCR,LOH, Glass cannon setup for the set.
Btag is jay#1401, I believe I'm in the top 50 for the ptr but can't remember what number exactly. These things are subject to sudden change so that may be already out of date. It should also be noted that the build I used was thrown together in a few moments, as well as the gems I use (Taegok, BoTT, Pain enhancer) would love to be rid of the PH but it takes forever to do anything on ptr, so tests with other gems will have to wait.
As far as trials go, I suspect that condemn would still crush the rolands set as far as maximum level of key, based on mechanics of play.
Lastly, and probably one of if not the most important thing: The set is a very fun very engaging play. As there are adjustments made I hope this isn't lost. Part of the fun is seeing the crits for billions, the other part is the intensive positional skill needed for the build. All in all it is a huge and wonderful upgrade from what the set was, even if it does need more tuning.
They don't have to nerf it, you only see those whopping crits when you gain the affix of the bracer, so the set would clear the rg faster but take longer on trash, where the AC builds go through trash well but flounder on the gr.
When hitting into a large pack the bracer buff doesn't activate it just assists in clearing out those last few mobs, usually at mid high gr those large adds have 9b hp around 45 that becomes 17b or so, so you won't be one shotting anything.
Perhaps the only serous feedback should come from the people that are able to run 40+ gr from the set. Torment testing would be 100% irrelevant as there are so many ways to cheese damage now. I copied a set over that should be able to run to 40 no problem, no ancients which was the case when I ran my first 40 in non season before the gr buffs, with a stampede setup. When I can get past the q I'll post screen shots and findings from content that actually matters.
In a word, everything. Not trying to be a dick, you have some of the pieces for the build however there are several things that you need. For rings you need Unity/SOJ either naturally rolling socket or max cdr. You need Furnace (STR/DMG/CDR/SKT) or Heartslaughter, furnace is bis. For a shield you'd want STR/CDR/CC/Phalanx damage. Helm should be Akkhan, STR/CC/Phalanx/SKT.
Chest legs should have all resist instead of the armor, look for a chest with secondaries that reduce damage from melee and ranged attacks. As far as secondaries go, you don't want gold find or + exp at all. Resist rolls, Health globe healing bonus and pickup are much more powerful and are often over looked.
Ammy should be a legendary, Phys/CC/CHD/SKT is bis for phalanx, but STR/CC/CHD/SKT is fine. Your overall goal should be getting to 56-57% cdr, 60% physical damage,65% Phalanx damage followed by as much crit/crit damage as you can get on your gear. You don't end up with a lot of room for cc/chd so the rolls that you do get need to be near max. Hellfire ammy would be bis, followed by an immunity ammy with the stats mentioned above. Ess of Johan/Eye of Illich make for good equips as well, just make sure to try and target close to your character when using the ess so the pull will benefit your pain enhancer secondary.
Passives are good, active talents for gr should be: Phalanx(stampede), AC: Prophet, LOV: Unstoppable,Iron Skin:Steel Skin, Steed Charge: Rejuvination/Endurance, and Provoke. Shield Glare can be subbed in for Provoke if you prefer. These are optimal for T6 as well, there is enough cc/buffing in parties between witch doc's, crusaders, barbs and monks that you should only need one cc. Phalanx stampede being that one ability.
The diamonds in your gear need to be Rubies, highest cut.
For T6 farming you can go with a Travelers Pledge/Compas Rose combo instead of the yellow/bkb ring you have, leave leoric's as is or search for that gg soj I mentioned earlier. Leg gems for leorics can be Bane of the trapped, Powerful, Pain enhancer. These are fine for T6. For Greater rift Pain enhancer, GOGUK(if below cdr of 56%) Bane of the trapped. If you get 57% cdr explore other gems beside Goguk. Good luck and happy farming : )
You CAN'T burst down an elite pack, unless you play rank 37 greater rifts. L2P dude. This is the last time I am ever writing anything to you, because you are like a radio and I don't argue with the radio!
P.S. Just stop sharing your precious info. All you do is mislead the ones that are even worse than you.
Funny thing bro, gr 50 on ptr is gr 40 live, with better gear. Its all L2P till 55, for every class. By the way great vid, way to kill that wall.
Thanks to the op for posting findings, he's entitled to his opinion and that's all this stuff is at this point. Nerds need to chill.
Why is it that video links on this site work 1/3 of the time? Nvm, works if you go for the play icon, the link itself comes back with 'page unavailable"
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To be honest I'm not sure how/why posts that aren't on topic aren't deleted. Mods please.
On topic:
It would solve a lot of problems if the legendary affix of zodiac ring affected every cool down as long as it is on cool down, regardless of the order and amount of cd's used.
Let me explain that, I shouldn't be able to sit on a cool down and have the ring "bank" cdr so as to be able to chain pop AC or a law or IS, but there are situations where it is necessary to use all cd's together and the ring in its current state can make that quite difficult. I'd love to see the reliance on cdr lessened, after experiencing play with a build that uses a lot of before cooldown toughness and a build that has its toughness invested in cd's I prefer the former. Not being forced into mandatory cdr rolls feels amazing, the two set and the ring give you those options.
That's just me though, perhaps I'm just sick of the Akkhan set and how unrewarding that style of stat stacking actually is in terms of time spent for what you get out of it.
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Sorry dude you have no argument, gr 50 is high. Not being able to discern the difference between something being a high mark and a standard is pretty stupid when you think about it, clearly from your posts you can't do that. Which is fine, I could really care less. In the meantime, either post experiences/thoughts on the set and play mechanics or spend your time arguing semantics for no good reason.
All the time in the world for trolls who want to shit post dude. L2 english.
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@op
Shield glare seems to affect every add, elite or not. The only time you will see immunity is for shielded elites, or affixes that are go off regardless of cc.
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Saying High gr is 50 /= gr 50 baseline.Lean to read for comprehension. Please do not put words in my mouth. Also feel free to post your progress here with a Rolands set up, this thread is for everyone after all.
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To be honest there is always something better than punish for gr's, the only thing that could change that is a re work of the Akarat's Awakening shield. If that were to be bumped to 50% from 25%, with the proc guarenteeed then it may actually be workable with a Bloodbrother.
As far as weps go, at the moment I'd say Ancient HS or Furnace for a phys build , Fire could be ancient maximus or ancient golden flense. Love needed for flense though. The increased cdr that you get via Obsidian ring syncs very well with any sweep rune, but its not enough in and of itself.
Would love to see the Flense have updates to it, I don't believe that its blizzards intent that there be a stand alone sweep build. The itemization just isn't there yet. However it should be able to be played as an acceptable stand in for a furnace/hs. Some ways to go about this may be to raise the base damage on 2h flails. The only thing that should do more damage in base catagory is a 2h mace. Secondly the affix of the flail. As far as wrath gen goes, it works as advertised. Simply put with the mechanics of the current sweep runes the wrath gen isn't enough by itself to make flense worth taking in light of the lower base damage and lack of damage increasing legendary power or elemental affix.
How to increase the legendary power though? Effect of every rune is an option and would open us up to having synergy with the Blizzcon Elemental ring, something we don't currently have. This set has stack managing mechanics for days, so I'm not sure that more stacks to manage is the answer.
A legendary power that worked in the reverse of the bash bracers could be introduced as well.
http://imgur.com/I8POzvM
The "jay" in blue would be me, to avoid any confusion.
Haven't run since last night, dropped 2 spots since then. Swapped the Zodiac ring for Broken promises, in lieu of gear the damage bonus is nice. Once we have gear Zodiac may over take, for the moment though as I'm building toughness all the damage I can get matters. Every rift that I placed on to date has been a combo of a1 mobs. With the lag we get anything other than that can lock connection, for me anyway.
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http://imgur.com/e4wP6gc
Made a mistake and went into a gr with no unity/conc. Worked out well rift was full of a1 melee mobs, no pylons.
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Just got in, ss of the setup as of now http://imgur.com/kGaNmTH
The heart slaughter and the rolands shoulder slot are ancient, nothing else is.
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What cheese?
High gr would be 50 + and Spongebob hit it yesterday with a 51 in rolands. XD Check out the official forums bro he's got vids of his clears, pretty good stuff. You can see the lag in some cases and its pretty atrocious.
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/16491108969
The thread on bnet.
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Haven't had a good one drop, I have had some other drops witch allowed me to go to 34 mill toughness before any cd's, need to craft an ancient prio though.
I may be wrong here but doesn't piro have a chance to roll higher block % (I'm thinking more damage from this) than FW? 70 shields crafted yesterday and only 3 ancients so hoping for better luck today. I'll keep my eye out for a FW in the meantime, thanks for the heads up mang : )
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Here come the pics, no vids as my card doesn't support recording. Neither would my internet with the extreme lag that I'm getting on the ptr atm.
http://imgur.com/zKBrfPd,hpDD9YD,P45ROSV
GR42 run. Some thoughts:
Survival may be an issue. With the extreme lag rotating defense skills is a massive issue. Build is very very weak to ranged mobs of any type lag or not I feel quite confidant in that. I have to play with the different laws, however at gr 37+ through unity, Iron skin(steel skin rune) Decaying strength I was seeing instant proc's of Indestructible from groups of mobs 10+. If there were ranged mobs shooting me off screen there was a death, unavoidable due to lag. Now this is just first brush, I was only running for 40 or so minutes for that gr 42. That was the second rift I attempted at that level, first one failed due to massive lag. When I say massive I mean hitting a defensive and waiting 5-7 seconds for it to actually go off. Massive.
AC prophet is at the moment necessary. Steel skin/Decaying strength by themselves are no where near enough protection for the damage you can see. Even then due to the in your face nature of the build you still take a thrashing, certain affix/mob combinations are an instant proc of prophet/Indy. In live I've not seen that happen with either of my AC builds, so again taken with a grain of salt this could be lag.
These runs were done with no ancient items, I lucked out and found an Obsidian Ring, and it may be mandatory after a certain point to use this and unity. There is a way to game the legendary affix to give a great deal more uptime on AC:Prophet via the ring, It takes practice I'm not anywhere near max uptime on the skill due to a lack thereof.
From a defensive standpoint this set is still behind any AC build in my opinion and by a fairly wide margin. Its playstyle is however far more complex and using the shield bash skill in a defensive manner to create an out for yourself is do able. Perhaps with far less lag I'd have an idea if you could use sb in this way reliably till then no idea.
Damage wise the build clears trash on par with an AC build with some clear advantages. You can snipe large adds/elite packs with the bracers to game the timer. Where AC builds rely on or create their own density, this build thrives in lower pop rifts. The damage of sheild bash is not overpowered in the slightest at gr 40+, not op at 35+ either. It is what is necessary for the build to function. Was not able to test sweep, however looking at the BASE damge difference between a 2h flail, 2h polarm, 2h mace I'd say that a Golden Flense setup NOW would lose to either a furnace or heart slaughter. Handily.
Wrath management: The other side of AC being necessary for myself at the moment. I'll have to see how different focuses on my sets play out, in an ideal would I would be able to test a CDR,RCR,LOH, Glass cannon setup for the set.
Btag is jay#1401, I believe I'm in the top 50 for the ptr but can't remember what number exactly. These things are subject to sudden change so that may be already out of date. It should also be noted that the build I used was thrown together in a few moments, as well as the gems I use (Taegok, BoTT, Pain enhancer) would love to be rid of the PH but it takes forever to do anything on ptr, so tests with other gems will have to wait.
As far as trials go, I suspect that condemn would still crush the rolands set as far as maximum level of key, based on mechanics of play.
Lastly, and probably one of if not the most important thing: The set is a very fun very engaging play. As there are adjustments made I hope this isn't lost. Part of the fun is seeing the crits for billions, the other part is the intensive positional skill needed for the build. All in all it is a huge and wonderful upgrade from what the set was, even if it does need more tuning.
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They don't have to nerf it, you only see those whopping crits when you gain the affix of the bracer, so the set would clear the rg faster but take longer on trash, where the AC builds go through trash well but flounder on the gr.
When hitting into a large pack the bracer buff doesn't activate it just assists in clearing out those last few mobs, usually at mid high gr those large adds have 9b hp around 45 that becomes 17b or so, so you won't be one shotting anything.
Perhaps the only serous feedback should come from the people that are able to run 40+ gr from the set. Torment testing would be 100% irrelevant as there are so many ways to cheese damage now. I copied a set over that should be able to run to 40 no problem, no ancients which was the case when I ran my first 40 in non season before the gr buffs, with a stampede setup. When I can get past the q I'll post screen shots and findings from content that actually matters.
1
Chest legs should have all resist instead of the armor, look for a chest with secondaries that reduce damage from melee and ranged attacks. As far as secondaries go, you don't want gold find or + exp at all. Resist rolls, Health globe healing bonus and pickup are much more powerful and are often over looked.
Ammy should be a legendary, Phys/CC/CHD/SKT is bis for phalanx, but STR/CC/CHD/SKT is fine. Your overall goal should be getting to 56-57% cdr, 60% physical damage,65% Phalanx damage followed by as much crit/crit damage as you can get on your gear. You don't end up with a lot of room for cc/chd so the rolls that you do get need to be near max. Hellfire ammy would be bis, followed by an immunity ammy with the stats mentioned above. Ess of Johan/Eye of Illich make for good equips as well, just make sure to try and target close to your character when using the ess so the pull will benefit your pain enhancer secondary.
Passives are good, active talents for gr should be: Phalanx(stampede), AC: Prophet, LOV: Unstoppable,Iron Skin:Steel Skin, Steed Charge: Rejuvination/Endurance, and Provoke. Shield Glare can be subbed in for Provoke if you prefer. These are optimal for T6 as well, there is enough cc/buffing in parties between witch doc's, crusaders, barbs and monks that you should only need one cc. Phalanx stampede being that one ability.
The diamonds in your gear need to be Rubies, highest cut.
For T6 farming you can go with a Travelers Pledge/Compas Rose combo instead of the yellow/bkb ring you have, leave leoric's as is or search for that gg soj I mentioned earlier. Leg gems for leorics can be Bane of the trapped, Powerful, Pain enhancer. These are fine for T6. For Greater rift Pain enhancer, GOGUK(if below cdr of 56%) Bane of the trapped. If you get 57% cdr explore other gems beside Goguk. Good luck and happy farming : )
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Thanks to the op for posting findings, he's entitled to his opinion and that's all this stuff is at this point. Nerds need to chill.
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