As of right now i'm playing around testing some different specs (A fire and holy spec for T4+) and I noticed thorns was still going very strong. I am working on an indepth guide for the spec I feel is doing the most efficiently and I will post that soon.
Thorns build is fun, but they have stated a couple weeks ago that Thorns for crusaders is scaling incorrectly in torment gameplay. It is basically getting a 2000% bonus instead of 200% during Iron Skin and its scaling with Torment, making it do crazy damage on T6.
So this is going to get nerfed to the ground at some point, possibly soon. I wouldn't invest tons of money into this (unless you are ok with that) thinking it will stick around. Also note, the bracers with 1000% thorns per chance, is not working... at all. (dont know if he stated this, im not reading his post, it gave me a headache)
1. I don't know If u havent played Diablo 3 in a few week or not but They already fixed it, but Blizz will give Iron Maiden a buff or something in 2.0.5
Chest - Pants: Demon's Hide set (area dmg and thorns). Since it's easy to get the materials, craft your Demons till you get the best ones with Thorns on chest and pants.
Hi, i'm crafting demon's hide set, but after 30 craft just can't roll Thorn on pants, are you sure can be rolled on it?
1. Demon set is one of the bests for Thorns builds.
2. Vo'toyias is good but not necessary. I would recommend the Storm Shield (for 30% melee dmg reduction) and Akarat's Awakening (for CD reduction) over it since Vo'toyias can only double white thorn dmg (which can't crit).
Yea I know that it is really powerful. But it makes no sense in its current form and will be changed or nerfed I bet. Thats why I don't like it. See it should only provide you with 50% more damage for those 4 secs, but you are using it to reduce cooldowns, so it does something, its not intended to do...
You get it wrong, Cooldown reduction is just one part of it. Charged Up will amplify your Fist of heavens (and its links), Firewalker, Punish's Roar, Condemn, and Iron Skin damage. Yes, 50% weapon dmg for every other skill or effect you use. That's a HUGE increase.
Interesting stuff, esp. that you use Roar! I also have a crusader which is using Shield Bash as his main damage source, and I can kill Elites pretty easily. What I don't like about this that you need Ironskin AND Charged Up to make it work. Also Charged Up and Firewalkers are pretty overpowered right now, don't know if you are aware of that.
Yes Im making use of FW and Chared Up.
Charged up is pretty a must-have to proc Akarat Rally cooldown reduction.
What was the point of this thread to begin with? You said its not a guide, but instead you were going to explain something which I'm not sure what it was. #Confused
Thorns is op and there are 20 different threads of it
Yeah, many enough to confuse people with those crappy guides.
Ill explain a few later tonight (im pretty busy this time).
[Caution: Pre-2.0.5 Build - I will update the guide ASAP]
Notes to 2.0.5 changes:
- Sanguinary Vambraces dmg now scales with your STR (pretty good now).
- Akarat's Rally isn't a reliable CD reduction ability now (and you even lose the 1-time-immortal).
As I tried to adapt to the new patch, my Thorns crusader is still playable with the old build but isnt strong as he was. To me, although some are pretty good, I don't like new skill changes as I can't find a proper Thorn skill set (yet).
Now Im feeling like I have nothing to deal with 1vs1 boss situations and be the (most) useless one in the party (again).
And you will need GODLY (i mean perfect) gears to run T6 as fast as you used to with lesser gears.
I will try to update my skill/gear build but Im not sure since Blizzard really messed up Thorns Crus this time.
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This is not a guide. I will make a guide explaining "why"s (and "why not"s) if I have time and/or many people demand it.
Thorn crus is hard to build, you can't tell how strong a thorn crus is until you meet them. So, forget about sheet DPS and those crappy "this skill has more %DMG" shits if you like thorn crus and love to build one.
Im still looking for "decent" gears, but I can go solo T4 easily. I can solo T5 (not so fast) or party with my friends (one other thorny to split tank and one blessed shield for dmg).
Despite what people are saying, Thorny Crus do better than other classes at high Torment level. (At T5, best classes for party are Crus (Thorn to tank/deal dmg to big elite packs), Blessed Shield crus (Tons of dmg to clear mobs), DH (DMG buff and Single target dmg), WD (single target dps > but distract thorny crus with those pets) - Wiz and Barb and Monk are pretty useless). Trust me, I've played with many other classes with decent damage/toughness.
Some tips for you to build a good thorn crus:
Don't ever prioritize Thorn damage over your toughness. (keep your All res >1k, armor, hp as high as possible, higher = better). I recommend "Melee/ranged reduction" opts.
Keep your block chance at 60%-ish (Some might say the "block amount" is useless - don't trust them, it's pretty good) to make use of Renewal passive (this is your 2nd best HP source in fight besides healing globes)
You can not rely on Thorn dmg alone. You need other AOE proc skills/items.
Cooldown reduction is good for Akarat, try to get at least 25% CDR.
Your job is to fight MANY and BIG elites, don't waste your time killing white trash mobs, tell your Wiz friend to clear the trash.
Don't underestimate Area Damage.
99% of people who haven't tested them, but these are crappy items for thorn crus: Sanguinary Vambraces, Thundergod's Vigor, Coven's Criterion, and Hack.
Some explanations for above items:
1. Sanguinary Bracers: Proc chance is ~20% when being hit that deals 10x your Thorn damage (yes, white thorn dmg in character details). For example my Thorn Dmg is 32k (it's high), it will deal 320k dmg to ~15yard radius. Proc chance and damage is too low comparing even to your "white thorn dmg". You won't ever notice the damage, and If I have to say, it deals ~1% or less to my total damage. Doesnt help procing Akarat Rally.
2. Thundergod's Vigor: Yeah, lightning is nice. Proc chance is not too bad, but it only hits 5 3 enemies at a time when it procs (no aoe). Again, too tiny damage to notice. Doesnt help procing Akarat Rally (litteraly)
3. Coven's Criterion: 60% reduced dmg when block. Sounds pretty good, but I tested and It doesnt help me as Stormshield (-30% melee dmg) does. I don't know if it's bug or not, but don't count on that legendary prefix.
4. Finally: Hack. Name's good, sounds good, damage increase is not bad. But your main dmg source when fighting elite mobs is mainly from Iron Skin that deals ~30m-ish dmg (for me) each hits. You get the hack, you lose damage from your 2-H weapon. The benefit from Hack is that you will get a free Passive slot in exchange for a little damage lost (still).
Recommended gears:
Weapon: It's pretty nice If you can get Schaefer's Hammer, in my case, it deals 3M dmg per second to a ~10 yard AOE, the best out there.
Alternatives: Blade of Prophecy (It deals massive dmg if u can gather many mobs) - Maximus (Chain DPS is very good) or any weapon that is good for your 2nd skill.
Shields: Akarat's Awakening (to upkeep your skills), Stormshield (30% melee reduction can bring you up a Torment level), Vo'toyias Spike (Double white thorns dmg).
Helm - Bracers - Gloves - Shoulders: Thorns of the Invoker set (the best set for any thorns build). 1 more free slot you can choose anything that's good for you. It's good If you can craft a decent Helm of Rule.
Chest - Pants: Demon's Hide set (area dmg and thorns). Since it's easy to get the materials, craft your Demons till you get the best ones with Thorns on chest and pants belts.
Belt: String of Ears (30% melee reduction)
Boots: Firewalker (make the best use of your Provoke)
Rings: Ring of Royal Grandeur is a must + Bul'katho's for HP regen or Stone of Jordan for Elites or Justice Lantern for block chance.
Amulet: Countess Julia's Cameo (those laser beams are annoying) or Traveler's Pledge (guaranteed Thorns).
Passives:
Heavenly Strength/Finery: If you can find a good 1H weapon, you can use Finery for STR increase.
Iron Maiden: It's good for Thorns build, but you can live without it.
Renewal: For HP regen.
Hold your ground/Divine Fortress: Choose one depend on your Block chance (try to keep it at 60% with Punish).
Skills:
Left click: Punish - Roar (or Retaliate if you have +Physical dmg, but I still recommend Roar for better aoe dmg)
Right click: Any wrath spender you want. (I use Fist of the Heavens - Fissure)
Condemn - Vacuum: To gather monsters and dmg dealing.
Provoke - Charged Up: This will increase your Firewalker/Schaefer/Condemn/Punish Roar/FotH dmg and anything that deals dmg over time.
Iron Skin - Reflective Skin: Your main skill here.
Akarat Champion - Rally: You only need this skill for CD reduction (and an extra live). Use this before any skills when you face tough elite packs. Pop it up, and spam 1-2-3-right click, your skills CD will spin like motor wheels.
Paragon:
STR/VIT: If you find your toughness a bit low, then go for some VIT. All the rest to STR.
Crit DMG/ Crit Chance: Keep your Crit dmg as high as possible and Crit chance at optimum value (40-50%).
Life/Armor/Resist/Regen: Put points into anything you lack. (Prioritize Resist/Regen).
Area Dmg/LoH/Resource cost reduction: Get your Area Dmg, that's a must!
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2. I already mentioned those bracers in the post.
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Sorry bout that
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2. Vo'toyias is good but not necessary. I would recommend the Storm Shield (for 30% melee dmg reduction) and Akarat's Awakening (for CD reduction) over it since Vo'toyias can only double white thorn dmg (which can't crit).
3. Yes, you can use Wrathful instead of Renewal.
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Charged up is pretty a must-have to proc Akarat Rally cooldown reduction.
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Ill explain a few later tonight (im pretty busy this time).
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Ill explain later.
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Notes to 2.0.5 changes:
- Sanguinary Vambraces dmg now scales with your STR (pretty good now).
- Akarat's Rally isn't a reliable CD reduction ability now (and you even lose the 1-time-immortal).
As I tried to adapt to the new patch, my Thorns crusader is still playable with the old build but isnt strong as he was. To me, although some are pretty good, I don't like new skill changes as I can't find a proper Thorn skill set (yet).
Now Im feeling like I have nothing to deal with 1vs1 boss situations and be the (most) useless one in the party (again).
And you will need GODLY (i mean perfect) gears to run T6 as fast as you used to with lesser gears.
I will try to update my skill/gear build but Im not sure since Blizzard really messed up Thorns Crus this time.
----
This is not a guide. I will make a guide explaining "why"s (and "why not"s) if I have time and/or many people demand it.
Thorn crus is hard to build, you can't tell how strong a thorn crus is until you meet them. So, forget about sheet DPS and those crappy "this skill has more %DMG" shits if you like thorn crus and love to build one.
For you ref, this is my Profile:
http://kr.battle.net/d3/ko/profile/jinsk8r-1832/hero/33166762 DPS ~620k
Toughness ~20m
Sheet thorn dmg 34k
Thorn dmg ~950k
Iron skin crit (40% chance) ~35m
(All unbuffed)
Im still looking for "decent" gears, but I can go solo T4 easily. I can solo T5 (not so fast) or party with my friends (one other thorny to split tank and one blessed shield for dmg).
Despite what people are saying, Thorny Crus do better than other classes at high Torment level. (At T5, best classes for party are Crus (Thorn to tank/deal dmg to big elite packs), Blessed Shield crus (Tons of dmg to clear mobs), DH (DMG buff and Single target dmg), WD (single target dps > but distract thorny crus with those pets) - Wiz and Barb and Monk are pretty useless). Trust me, I've played with many other classes with decent damage/toughness.
Some tips for you to build a good thorn crus:
- Don't ever prioritize Thorn damage over your toughness. (keep your All res >1k, armor, hp as high as possible, higher = better). I recommend "Melee/ranged reduction" opts.
- Keep your block chance at 60%-ish (Some might say the "block amount" is useless - don't trust them, it's pretty good) to make use of Renewal passive (this is your 2nd best HP source in fight besides healing globes)
- You can not rely on Thorn dmg alone. You need other AOE proc skills/items.
- Cooldown reduction is good for Akarat, try to get at least 25% CDR.
- Your job is to fight MANY and BIG elites, don't waste your time killing white trash mobs, tell your Wiz friend to clear the trash.
- Don't underestimate Area Damage.
- 99% of people who haven't tested them, but these are crappy items for thorn crus: Sanguinary Vambraces, Thundergod's Vigor, Coven's Criterion, and Hack.
Some explanations for above items:1. Sanguinary Bracers: Proc chance is ~20% when being hit that deals 10x your Thorn damage (yes, white thorn dmg in character details). For example my Thorn Dmg is 32k (it's high), it will deal 320k dmg to ~15yard radius. Proc chance and damage is too low comparing even to your "white thorn dmg". You won't ever notice the damage, and If I have to say, it deals ~1% or less to my total damage. Doesnt help procing Akarat Rally.
2. Thundergod's Vigor: Yeah, lightning is nice. Proc chance is not too bad, but it only hits
53 enemies at a time when it procs (no aoe). Again, too tiny damage to notice. Doesnt help procing Akarat Rally (litteraly)3. Coven's Criterion: 60% reduced dmg when block. Sounds pretty good, but I tested and It doesnt help me as Stormshield (-30% melee dmg) does. I don't know if it's bug or not, but don't count on that legendary prefix.
4. Finally: Hack. Name's good, sounds good, damage increase is not bad. But your main dmg source when fighting elite mobs is mainly from Iron Skin that deals ~30m-ish dmg (for me) each hits. You get the hack, you lose damage from your 2-H weapon. The benefit from Hack is that you will get a free Passive slot in exchange for a little damage lost (still).
Recommended gears:
- Weapon: It's pretty nice If you can get Schaefer's Hammer, in my case, it deals 3M dmg per second to a ~10 yard AOE, the best out there.
Alternatives: Blade of Prophecy (It deals massive dmg if u can gather many mobs) - Maximus (Chain DPS is very good) or any weapon that is good for your 2nd skill.
- Shields: Akarat's Awakening (to upkeep your skills), Stormshield (30% melee reduction can bring you up a Torment level), Vo'toyias Spike (Double white thorns dmg).
- Helm - Bracers - Gloves - Shoulders: Thorns of the Invoker set (the best set for any thorns build). 1 more free slot you can choose anything that's good for you. It's good If you can craft a decent Helm of Rule.
- Chest - Pants: Demon's Hide set (area dmg and thorns). Since it's easy to get the materials, craft your Demons till you get the best ones with Thorns on chest and
- Belt: String of Ears (30% melee reduction)
- Boots: Firewalker (make the best use of your Provoke)
- Rings: Ring of Royal Grandeur is a must + Bul'katho's for HP regen or Stone of Jordan for Elites or Justice Lantern for block chance.
- Amulet: Countess Julia's Cameo (those laser beams are annoying) or Traveler's Pledge (guaranteed Thorns).
Passives:pantsbelts.Skills:
Paragon:
Bonus pics: