"Hey wanna join my private hostility game so we can gank each other by surprise ? Sounds so exciting to be caught by surprise"
This thread failed by putting the hostility troll back into the debate.
Duel is fail because it's impossible to duel without letting the rest of the group handle the purpose of the game (which is PvM) alone.
THERE WILL BE PVP STOP ASKING FOR SHIT-COPY OF IT INCLUDED IN PVM GAMES
K so I join your game with my brother. We decide that you know what... were gonna go do a different part of the act and not work with you, or you know what...were gonna gather all of the lore we can and really savor every moment of the game. Mess with the blacksmith for a few hours maybe, respawn the merchant gear for an hour or so... So tell me..hows that PvM going for you? Oh...I didn't just do the exact thing that you said dueling would do to you did I?
Before someone posts "Oh that wouldn't happen!" Oh it would, actually I am pretty inclined to do just that, because of these conversations we have here. The ignorance in most of these posts and the white knights that ride into the PvP section that have no reason to be here other then to try and talk down to PvP'ers, is exactly why the hostile system suited me so well over the years, it was simple. You spew BS, I hit a button and boom...no more BS, perfect bliss.
I could could care less about PvP, but Adon is right. PvP is the prime focus on longevity for a Diablo game. The benefits I see from D3 is I might actually play an public game and I'll probably get into arena when I'm maxed and bored.
Seriously though watching you two talk is hilarious.
Adon may be right about Diablo 2. However, that doesn't really apply to Diablo 3. I expect that we'll see quite a bit of both PvM and PvP content to extend the life of the game. I mean, Blizzard already made posts stating they expect to be able to do monthly / bi~monthly PvM content updates due to the added funds generated by the RMAH.
As for the hilarity, I can only agree. ^-^
I hope they add real content unlike how they neglected and shunned Diablo 2. Their track record doesn't bode well for them in this case, but ill be optimistic just this once.
Yea great, it has hardcore PvM'ers interested...they will surely support such a feature and enhance the longevity of it(NOT).
It's ok, with the race for drops taken out of the game it will solve a lot of the fighting. There will still be arguing though, that I am confident of. I didn't play 12+ years with millions of players in this community to not get a feel for how they act. You might not see it now, but later on it will come, it always does.
Arguing over who is wrong or right is pointless, you seem to be basing everything off of the here and now, which you are correct. Everything will be peachy here and now. I am talking about the longevity of the game, the prime years if you will. In which case my experience will prove me correct.
Actually, you do realize that your experience with the game actually proves me correct. You've talked about harassing players with hostility, beating people in completely unfair 1v7's, etc. Your experiences there are the exact reasons why an integrated and separated PvP system is better for the game. Thanks. ^-^
Yea I guess you wouldn't want a big bad level 29 joining your game and taking 7 level 80's out. That would be unfair. Much better idea to hold the hands of those level 80's and tell them it will be alright because the big bad level 29 is stuck in the arena, he can't hurt you anymore.
Lol... I sense an Outlier / Extremist reply in this one.
The incredibly slim probability of a level 29 coming in and taking out level 80s is freaking low. You were losing the argument so you pulled this one COMPLETELy out of your asshole. Even if it does happen ... thats not what you want hositility for.. .and thats not what 99.999% of griefers used it for.
Oh it is not as low as you would think. Not even close, good times. Yea maybe 99.999% didn't use it for that, but those 99.999% weren't anything to worry about, trust me. Only thing I loved more then hunting loud mouths down, was taking them out when they tried to hunt me down. Again though, im clearly the minority and my opinion or experience doesn't mean jack.
Yea great, it has hardcore PvM'ers interested...they will surely support such a feature and enhance the longevity of it(NOT).
It's ok, with the race for drops taken out of the game it will solve a lot of the fighting. There will still be arguing though, that I am confident of. I didn't play 12+ years with millions of players in this community to not get a feel for how they act. You might not see it now, but later on it will come, it always does.
Arguing over who is wrong or right is pointless, you seem to be basing everything off of the here and now, which you are correct. Everything will be peachy here and now. I am talking about the longevity of the game, the prime years if you will. In which case my experience will prove me correct.
Actually, you do realize that your experience with the game actually proves me correct. You've talked about harassing players with hostility, beating people in completely unfair 1v7's, etc. Your experiences there are the exact reasons why an integrated and separated PvP system is better for the game. Thanks. ^-^
Yea I guess you wouldn't want a big bad level 29 joining your game and taking 7 level 80's out. That would be unfair. Much better idea to hold the hands of those level 80's and tell them it will be alright because the big bad level 29 is stuck in the arena, he can't hurt you anymore.
It is cumbersome. The way you are seeing it and saying it is that you either want to do 1 or the other. You are drawing a picture that NO ONE would EVER want to PvP while they are PvMing, and that NO ONE would EVER become upset because they suddenly decided "Oh hey, lets duel real quick" and then find out they have to make a new game to do just that.
You also seem to forget how the community of Diablo operates. It is a competitive game, whether you want to think so or not or whatever Blizzard wants to think. People are competing to become the best player, they compete with killing monsters, they compete with gear, compete with riches, and compete in PvP. They will argue, and they will fight...A LOT, and they will want to duel to settle it, just like they have for the past 12+ years. Making them have to jump through hoops to do so will only piss the community off, face it. It is a shotty design and it will be corrected, just wait.
You forget that your style of playing isn't the average gamer anymore. Sure heavy competition may have been the case back when Diablo 2 was popular...now days though, the general gamer tends to play games on a cell phone more often then their PC. I played through every class in D3 already around 5-10 times, almost completely via public games. Guess what...no arguing really, no competing over gear, no competing over gold, nothing like that. People just wanted to play and have fun. If I got a really kewl piece of gear and linked it...people never tried to fight me for it. So no... I don't think people will want to constantly fight other players the way you describe, at least not the majority of players. Heck, a good example is WoW (as WoW is a large RPG with dueling)...I've never once in my seven or so years of playing it had a duel request to settle a dispute. Any duel request I've ever had has either been griefing, or messing around outside of town with a couple friends. I don't see duels serving the purpose you suggest they will at all.
Face it, Adon...you're a minority in the gamer community now. That isn't a bad thing, but gaming has changed and evolved. Blizzard is just keeping up with that evolution by catering more to what the new community wants. Those people like yourself that want the hardcore elitist PvP are a minority of a minority. This is especially true in a game like Diablo where the primary focus is the storyline/campaign. In games like this, PvP is an extra for those that want it. I'd say that Blizzard is actually doing great with its design as their Arena system actually has hardcore PvM players mildly interested in PvP and that says something.
Since you won't likely read my two paragraphs above, I'll make it simple.... YOU....ARE....WRONG.
Yea great, it has hardcore PvM'ers interested...they will surely support such a feature and enhance the longevity of it(NOT).
It's ok, with the race for drops taken out of the game it will solve a lot of the fighting. There will still be arguing though, that I am confident of. I didn't play 12+ years with millions of players in this community to not get a feel for how they act. You might not see it now, but later on it will come, it always does.
Arguing over who is wrong or right is pointless, you seem to be basing everything off of the here and now, which you are correct. Everything will be peachy here and now. I am talking about the longevity of the game, the prime years if you will. In which case my experience will prove me correct.
Poor poor chip, getting jumped by all of the PvM'ers.
My argument still stands, there should be a waypoint to the arena in game. We should not have to leave the game to duel, it is a cumbersome design and I fully expect them to correct it. We should also have the option to customize the arena into different rule sets. 1v7 - 4v4 should all be applicable and in game for us to decide on.
It's not a cumbersome design actually. Given the design of the game overall, moving PvP to its own game-mode actually is the only viable way to have a public PvP system. Implementing a private only PvP system into PvM only confuses people, can be used for griefing, and diverts resources. The design of Diablo 3 is that you are either PvPing or you are PvMing. You aren't meant to be doing both at the same time, period. Considering this design, it would be better for those that want more out of PvP to be asking for additional Arena features and not trying to change PvM so they can PvP in it.
It is cumbersome. The way you are seeing it and saying it is that you either want to do 1 or the other. You are drawing a picture that NO ONE would EVER want to PvP while they are PvMing, and that NO ONE would EVER become upset because they suddenly decided "Oh hey, lets duel real quick" and then find out they have to make a new game to do just that.
You also seem to forget how the community of Diablo operates. It is a competitive game, whether you want to think so or not or whatever Blizzard wants to think. People are competing to become the best player, they compete with killing monsters, they compete with gear, compete with riches, and compete in PvP. They will argue, and they will fight...A LOT, and they will want to duel to settle it, just like they have for the past 12+ years. Making them have to jump through hoops to do so will only piss the community off, face it. It is a shotty design and it will be corrected, just wait.
This might be a good time to point out that all we've been promised thus far is a bare bones arena system with no additional utility beyond its 3v3 function.
Poor poor chip, getting jumped by all of the PvM'ers.
My argument still stands, there should be a waypoint to the arena in game. We should not have to leave the game to duel, it is a cumbersome design and I fully expect them to correct it. We should also have the option to customize the arena into different rule sets. 1v7 - 4v4 should all be applicable and in game for us to decide on.
It is about a system that has been intact in Diablo since it was created. It is also about the people who enjoyed the feature of the random dynamic emotions it brought to the game. Now you join a game and thats it, you know exactly what is going to happen and how, it is very static.
Damn im out $10.
So the desires of the few should override the desires of the many, eh? I mean...most every poll here on the issue has been against it. This is coming from the PvP forum, where you'd kind of expect that the majority of posters would be FOR the feature...
Well the website I directed you to before in D2JSP is FOR it and they control the whole Diablo economy ATM ha. The people voting in this sub forum are the PvM people, this website is mainly PvM oriented and team play coop, not to many PvP in this website. It doesn't matter, I am not saying it will be in the game, I am saying I would enjoy it, even it was only in private whatever. Kills a part of the game for me but whatever well see what they do with the arena.
A system that can easily be abused is not a good system. Hostility easy to abuse. Are you saying that that abuse is okay then? To which I personally can't agree. That's the fault in that system, it's not about the little people that didn't grief it is about the many that did. Apparently the many should suffer for the enjoyment of the few.
It is about a system that has been intact in Diablo since it was created. It is also about the people who enjoyed the feature of the random dynamic emotions it brought to the game. Now you join a game and thats it, you know exactly what is going to happen and how, it is very static.
I still got my hopes that the big changes blizz is still implementing and considering on thier pvp mechanics may involve the inclusion of hostility. I think enough people liked the idea that there is a chance some 'form' of hostility might comeback. This might explain the shear magnitude of the changes, they have to be doing something big with PvP for the things to still be in construction because PvP was showcased in some of the early diablo 3 demos at the blizzcons.
Doubt it, will most likely never happen. Jay Wilson is an avid caped crusader against hostility, he was obviously attacked and killed many times to give him such trauma. It allows to much "griefing" opportunity, and they don't care enough about the "little people" who liked the features it offered beyond griefing. We will most likely get a boring ass team arena where you will be forced to team duel or join randoms and get stomped by an organized group, and have to make 3 games just to duel once and continue where you left off.
$10 says Ecutruin comes in here and writes 3 essays explaining how hostility is bad and PvP and PvM don't mix or whatever he rants about.
Oh well see, ill run my stuff to gather the data don't worry!
Your stuff?! So, you'll somehow hack Blizzard and get the exact numbers for number of players playing in private games versus public games eh? Because unless you can do that, you'll be waiting on Blizzard to actually announce something...which they might not do.
Honestly, it doesn't even matter.. if I'm wrong, I'm wrong. In all honestly, it means that dueling/hostility is a WORSE idea as players would be using private games even more and as such more exposure to the negatives. So, if you're right... the result stays the same.
I gots stuff, good stuff. Itll prove my dominance.
Getting so upset and angry haha. IDK according to you though the majority of players play in public and will do so in D3, yet again..Blizzard says otherwise.
Who did they review to get these answers about PvP? Only thing I saw regarding PvP was a questionnaire they did at Blizzcon which is an inaccurate head count because 90% of the people there were for SC2 and WoW.
Upset!? ~laughs~ No way, I'm laughing at your posts generally. I'm pretty sure I'd be posting a whole lot different if I was angry.
I never said Blizzard said anything about PvP. What I said is what did the majority of players do for PvP... to which the answer is... sit outside town in Act 1 and fight. Guess what Arena is?... joining a specific game to essentially sit in a set area to fight. Oh wait... Blizzard is ignoring their PvP player~base and making something completely different then they are used to playing.. I'm so wrong.
Did I say that the majority of players in PvM are CURRENTLY playing in public games? No. I explained why that was the case specifically in my previous post. So yes, I feel that come the actual release, we'll see the majority actually being public games. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if we see it during this open beta.
Oh well see, ill run my stuff to gather the data don't worry!
Good, glad you are happy. I am tired of reading 3 essays for you to attempt to get your point across haha. Beta or not, you are grabbing at straws here, the majority of games has always been and always will be private. You cannot simply sit there and flaunt how Blizzard says majority of players didn't PvP and majority of players PvM'd, then simply ignore fact they said majority of players play in private.
I don't believe I ignored that fact. I believe I actually gave a reason for why it exists. Seems you chose to not read that as well.
Well first off, pretty simple. No it would act much like D2 hostility probably with a few tweaks if needed so no dueling in town. If they gain your trust and grief you then that is on you, should be better at reading people. If they don't want pvp then stay out of private games with randoms?
Yea the arena fixes everything!! Team battles which EVERYONE wants. Health globes which EVERYONE wants. 3 games to duel once which EVERYONE wants. Man...blizzard rocks!
You are the exact person I was talking about, no idea about PvP at all, just a PvM'er who comes in this sub forum to try and say everything is alright when clearly you are just going to go die to Leoric at level 60 in normal ha.
See, the funny thing Adon... team battles are what the MAJORITY want. Health globes are useful for a more CASUAL play style. As for three games to duel once...well, certainly seems like Blizzard doesn't want you do run around dueling everyone...hrm...I wonder if that is INTENTIONAL...I just don't know.
If you haven't realized this yet, Blizzard is making these choices in order to make the game (including PvP) appeal to a larger audience. Why did the majority of players play private games in Diablo 2? How did the majority of people PvP in Diablo 2? Seriously.. Blizzard is making the game according to what the MAJORITY of their player~base want. You obviously don't seem to be one of those people... so perhaps the game just isn't for you? Perhaps... you should ~gasp~ stick with the game you love (Diablo 2).
Getting so upset and angry haha. IDK according to you though the majority of players play in public and will do so in D3, yet again..Blizzard says otherwise.
Who did they review to get these answers about PvP? Only thing I saw regarding PvP was a questionnaire they did at Blizzcon which is an inaccurate head count because 90% of the people there were for SC2 and WoW.
I didn't even bother to read your whole post because it is already wrong at the start. Blizzard themselves have already stated that majority of D2 games took place in private games, and even in the beta and internal test the majority was private games. The Diablo community is full of assholes (I being 1 of them as Koda knows ), people will be pushed to private games further through the release regardless if they want or not, whether it is because someone is a dick in a public game or they finally met friends or wanna solo, the odds are majority are in private.
Blizzards beta was primarily private games because it could actually take five minutes sometimes for the matchmaker to set you up with someone on the same quest as you unless you were skeleton king grinding. I played the beta very heavily, and experienced this myself on numerous occasions. Of course people are going to goto private games when waits are that long sometimes. Once the game is officially released and there is a steady stream of players at all levels of play, wait times will be way smaller.
I love how you won't even take the time to ready a post, but you'll manage to prove me right. Thanks! Its good to know that I have a great example to prove my point.
Good, glad you are happy. I am tired of reading 3 essays for you to attempt to get your point across haha. Beta or not, you are grabbing at straws here, the majority of games has always been and always will be private. You cannot simply sit there and flaunt how Blizzard says majority of players didn't PvP and majority of players PvM'd, then simply ignore fact they said majority of players play in private.
All this 'dueling & hostility' is getting messy. Can you activate in town, and fight in town? What if someone doesn't want to pvp? Can you come into peoples games disguised as a friend just to grief? The list goes on and on.
I really wish Blizzard was competent enough to realize this problem and actually fix it! They should just add a separate place where you can duel and pvp. Make it to where you queue up for it! And then when you're ready you get transported to this awesome setting or something, and you and a group if you want can duke it out with a point counter up top or something. Call it an arena! This would solve like every problem and give a fun area while giving the PVP aspect it's own world!
But nope, Blizz sucks.
/sarcasm
Well first off, pretty simple. No it would act much like D2 hostility probably with a few tweaks if needed so no dueling in town. If they gain your trust and grief you then that is on you, should be better at reading people. If they don't want pvp then stay out of private games with randoms?
Yea the arena fixes everything!! Team battles which EVERYONE wants. Health globes which EVERYONE wants. 3 games to duel once which EVERYONE wants. Man...blizzard rocks!
You are the exact person I was talking about, no idea about PvP at all, just a PvM'er who comes in this sub forum to try and say everything is alright when clearly you are just going to go die to Leoric at level 60 in normal ha.
Look it's not that hard. I took the idea from you yourself. There's no need to play social politics (blah blah you hurt my feelings I'm a victim blah blah) with it and base our thought process on blind hatred for one crop or what "might" happen. Also, nearly everyone would use this feature overtime, gauranteed. Even if they were originally against it, they would find it useful at some point in time. I'm as anxious as anyone to get in there and bash me up some monsters, but I also know the vast majority of players will still spend most of their time in >private games< playing with their >friends and family as well as solo< and having a convenience like non-grief hostility or duels in >private games< would be a huge credit to the diablo series.
You're quite wrong actually. I have a feeling the majority of players will actually play Public games, both PvM and PvP. Why? Because its more fun to play with people. Your friends and family won't always be on when you are (unless you purposely play that way only) and as such people will generally end up playing with randoms.
In addition to my belief, its very evident that Blizzard's goal is to have people play together in public games, hence them making it so easy to dive right in. If they expected most people to play private, they would not have put the effort into making a public matchmaking system for quests and such.
I'm not making my decision based on irrational fears, or anything like that. I look at the way the feature would likely be used, how the PvP posters here act, and how the PvM posters here act. I'm sorry if that means I see something different then you, but I just don't see the future being a NEEDED feature. If Blizzard added it, I wouldn't be one to complain about it existing... but I won't support adding it right now. Its a feature that I see very little good coming from, while I can see quite a bit of negative resulting.
Again, I point you to the people that post here on behalf of PvP generally...is that honestly an attitude you want to promote? I sure don't. What would duels/hostility offer that Arena could not (assuming Arena got a FFA/1v1 mode)? The amount of people that would actually want to duel mid quest would be so minor, compared to those that would try use it to grief or complain that it isn't in public games. Sorry, but how can I justify supporting it?
I didn't even bother to read your whole post because it is already wrong at the start. Blizzard themselves have already stated that majority of D2 games took place in private games, and even in the beta and internal test the majority was private games. The Diablo community is full of assholes (I being 1 of them as Koda knows ), people will be pushed to private games further through the release regardless if they want or not, whether it is because someone is a dick in a public game or they finally met friends or wanna solo, the odds are majority are in private.
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Before someone posts "Oh that wouldn't happen!" Oh it would, actually I am pretty inclined to do just that, because of these conversations we have here. The ignorance in most of these posts and the white knights that ride into the PvP section that have no reason to be here other then to try and talk down to PvP'ers, is exactly why the hostile system suited me so well over the years, it was simple. You spew BS, I hit a button and boom...no more BS, perfect bliss.
It's ok, with the race for drops taken out of the game it will solve a lot of the fighting. There will still be arguing though, that I am confident of. I didn't play 12+ years with millions of players in this community to not get a feel for how they act. You might not see it now, but later on it will come, it always does.
Arguing over who is wrong or right is pointless, you seem to be basing everything off of the here and now, which you are correct. Everything will be peachy here and now. I am talking about the longevity of the game, the prime years if you will. In which case my experience will prove me correct.
You also seem to forget how the community of Diablo operates. It is a competitive game, whether you want to think so or not or whatever Blizzard wants to think. People are competing to become the best player, they compete with killing monsters, they compete with gear, compete with riches, and compete in PvP. They will argue, and they will fight...A LOT, and they will want to duel to settle it, just like they have for the past 12+ years. Making them have to jump through hoops to do so will only piss the community off, face it. It is a shotty design and it will be corrected, just wait.
My argument still stands, there should be a waypoint to the arena in game. We should not have to leave the game to duel, it is a cumbersome design and I fully expect them to correct it. We should also have the option to customize the arena into different rule sets. 1v7 - 4v4 should all be applicable and in game for us to decide on.
Damn im out $10.
$10 says Ecutruin comes in here and writes 3 essays explaining how hostility is bad and PvP and PvM don't mix or whatever he rants about.
Who did they review to get these answers about PvP? Only thing I saw regarding PvP was a questionnaire they did at Blizzcon which is an inaccurate head count because 90% of the people there were for SC2 and WoW.
Well first off, pretty simple. No it would act much like D2 hostility probably with a few tweaks if needed so no dueling in town. If they gain your trust and grief you then that is on you, should be better at reading people. If they don't want pvp then stay out of private games with randoms?
Yea the arena fixes everything!! Team battles which EVERYONE wants. Health globes which EVERYONE wants. 3 games to duel once which EVERYONE wants. Man...blizzard rocks!
You are the exact person I was talking about, no idea about PvP at all, just a PvM'er who comes in this sub forum to try and say everything is alright when clearly you are just going to go die to Leoric at level 60 in normal ha.