Firebirds isn't a max of 3 procs per second, it is a max of 3 procss per 1/APS seconds. It is a maximum that scales with attack speed.
I took your theory of vyr stack procs working like FB procs to mean that like the FB-4 set, the Vyr-6 set cannot proc more than 3 times per 1/APS. If you meant something else, then we're talking past eachother. Archon stack acquisition does not scale with # of mobs hit...ever...100% verifiable, and everything I say further and have said above is assuming that is a known.
However if it was further limited to no more than 3 procs per 1/APS seconds, that wouldn't make a difference because you can only do one attack per 1/APS seconds....by definition. And then also one blast cast. That still only adds up to a maximum of two possible actions that can occur within the timeframe of the proposed ICD.
Seems about right...I haven't measured the cooldown on blast myself. Vyr's very well could have a limitation like firebirds and that I've never seen it.
However it still wouldn't really matter because firebirds is 3 procs per APS, and with archon at most you can only actually do two actions per APS....cast disintegration wave/arcane strike once and blast if it is off CD.
So it becomes a limitation that functionally doesn't matter.
"Enemies Hit Less Than Threshold" with a value of 3, suggesting you gain 1 stack per enemy hit up to a maximum of 3 for 3 enemies hit, per attaack.
I'm not sure how to interpret what Script Formula 0 is or what he means to imply when he says 'enemies hit less than threshold', but my testing has showed exactly what I have the in OP.
However I've yet to do very in depth testing on the beam, but I can assure you that the number of stacks it grants does not scale with the amount of enemies it hits.
you CAN'T stack up buffs indefinitely with that item. When the Archon expires, the stacks are turned into a timed buff that expires even if you transform again into Archon ad gain other stacks.
The new stacks for the archon count as a different buff.
Or at least this happened a few weeks ago on PTR.
Yes... I know that...
What I meant by indefinitely would be the Swami stacks overlapping with your Archon duration, increasing your initial APS and thus increasing the upper limit of your stacks. This could go on in an endless cycle to infinitely increase your stacks. Do note however, that once you have 200% IAS, getting another 1% wouldn't make a noticeable difference and even wasting a fraction of a second on: moving, opening/breaking doors, teleporting, changing zones would make it impossible to stack the buff up indefinitely.
This is of course assuming that Archon left click isn't limited by breakpoints (the way hydra is) but constantly updates as your attack speed increases. (I don't know if Archon left click has breakpoints, but it will be impossible to infinitely stack your buff if it does.)
All skills have breakpoints, but even if they didn't you stacks do not build up indefinitely. You converge on a steady state maximum and level off into a repeating up/down cycle. See my spreadsheet model if you want to verify it yourself. You could also mathematically verify this, but making a spreadsheet was easier.
It's worked that way for the combustion rune explosion ever since they made archon+vyr's use your highest elemental%. Looks like they just took that same code and applied it to the chantodo set.
his is false actually. I just tested this and while the initial explosion when turning into archon is fire damage (combustion rune) and will always be fire damage no matter what your highest elemental damage is or what rune you have selected. Chantodo's aoe element is determined by your highest elemental damage.
Element type doesn't change, but the rune choice determines which elemental bonus% on your gear gets applied to your damage. Easiest to test with wave of destruction....do it with an archon rune not matching the element% bonus of your gear, and then do it again with a matching rune/element% bonus. You'll find that you only get the elemental damage % bonus when the rune on your bars matches your highest elemental bonus affix
Yeah I rechecked everything in this latest patch that I found in the first one.
Still true...and because the wave of destruction damage doesn't change from tick to tick, anyone can test it with a pair of elemental bracers and choosing different archon runes to put on their bar.
Bot now I'm reading it again, there is actually a way to keep increasing your stacks, even if it is very hard.
If
you manage to enter Archon with the stacks of the Swami, then you start
with a considerable bonus to IAS and can manage to amass stacks faster
(at least at the start) so to end Archon with more stacks than you
started with. Rinse and repeat.
Now I think this is what North meant.
I'm assuming you're alluding to the interaction between ever increasing attack speed allowing ever more stacks to be accrued from the Vyr 6-set. If so, no you cannot do it indefinitely as you converge on a steady state maximum, unless you have infinite mobs flooding in to grant you stacks on kill.
I spreadsheeted it out if you want to try for yourself:
You can go to File: Download As to download a copy and then you can fiddle with the inputs on the left to see how it affects the graph.
It assumes you use Obsidian Ring, Swamii, 20 stack fazula, cast archon immediately upon its availability (not waiting for chantodo's stacks), that you cast your archon explosion once per second, and that you only use one spell to trigger obsidian ring (so it procs at a rate equal to your APS). I'm not sure if it can go faster.
Also, it doesn't matter if you have a head-start of stacks from kill procs, it still levels out.
Wouldn't the Wave of Destruction hit for 7350% weapon damage since every stacks adds 350% to the original Wave?
350% + 350% * 20 = 7350%
But I still have a hard time seeing how this will outperform TR, Archon has a blatant weakness and it also requires you to be in close range in order to utilize its full potential.
Once you equip the chantodo set you always have one stack, you don't need to build the first one, only increase it up to 20. So it is 20 x 350 = 7000% at max stacks.
Kinda forgot I made the post over on this forum, I made updates to the one on the official forum and just brought them over here. Other than the chantodo stacking bug being fixed and the changing 4-set piece the rest of the information didn't change for this latest PTR patch.
(2) Set Bonus
Archon gains the effect of every rune
(4) Set Bonus
Archon stacks also increase your Attack Speed, Armor and Resistances by 1%.
(6) Set Bonus
You also gain Archon stacks when you hit with an Archon ability
Chantodo's Resolve
(2) Set Bonus
Every second while in Archon form you expel a Wave of Destruction, dealing 350% weapon damage to enemies within 30 yards
Every time you hit with an attack while not in Archon form, 350% weapon damage is added to the Wave of Destruction, stacking up to 20 times
Vyr's Faq's
The Vyr 2-Set gives me all archon runes, does it matter which archon rune I put on my bar?
Yes! Both your explosion upon transforming (combustion rune) and the Wave of Destruction AoE from Chantodo's element bonus type are determined by the Archon rune you choose. If you're gearing for Fire Elemental% bonus, make sure to put the Fire archon rune on your bars otherwise you won't see that bonus appear in your damage.
How do Archon Stacks work? What do they do?
Each stack is a 6% damage buff that works just like Glass Cannon. So at 50 stacks, that's a 300% damage buff.
How do I build more Archon Buff Stacks?
Without the Vyr 6-set, killing an enemy is the only way to increase the number of stacks you have. You get 1 stack for each enemy killed in your game, by either you or your teammates. If you DO have the Vyr 6-set, casting one of your Archon spells and having it hit a target will grant you one more stack. Every cast of your #1 spell will grant one stack, every cast of your ground-slam left click will grant one stack, you gain one stacks from your channeled beam at a rate equal to your attacks/second, all regardless of how many enemies you hit with each attack.
How do Chantodo's Stacks work? What do they do?
If you have the 2-set bonus for the Chantodo's set you you'll cast wave of force continuously roughly once per second upon entering Archon Form. For each stack of chantodo's you have when you enter archon form it will increase the base weapon damage of this AoE for the entire duration of that archon cast. With one stack it will pulse for 350% weapon damage, with 20 stacks it will pulse for 7000% weapon damage.
How do I build more Chantodo's Buff Stacks?
See the above section of how to gain Archon Stacks with Vyr-6set, and replace archon skills with your normal skills. It is one stack per attack that lands, no matter how many enemies it hits. Channeled spells grant you stacks at your attack rate.
Misc
Chantodo's Wave of Destruction Hits for 344.1666% weapon damage per stack every 0.98333 seconds (or every 59 frames @60fps)
Hits for the same amount each time, uses your average weapon damage...so no variance occurs between min dmg/max dmg
Wave of Destruction can and does crit
The wave of Destruction DOES NOT grant you archon stacks on-it
Wave of Destruction does not get buffed by the 22% improved archon rune.
Correct.
No matter the method, you cannot get more than one stack due to hitting more than one enemy.
Firebirds isn't a max of 3 procs per second, it is a max of 3 procss per 1/APS seconds. It is a maximum that scales with attack speed.
I took your theory of vyr stack procs working like FB procs to mean that like the FB-4 set, the Vyr-6 set cannot proc more than 3 times per 1/APS. If you meant something else, then we're talking past eachother. Archon stack acquisition does not scale with # of mobs hit...ever...100% verifiable, and everything I say further and have said above is assuming that is a known.
However if it was further limited to no more than 3 procs per 1/APS seconds, that wouldn't make a difference because you can only do one attack per 1/APS seconds....by definition. And then also one blast cast. That still only adds up to a maximum of two possible actions that can occur within the timeframe of the proposed ICD.
Seems about right...I haven't measured the cooldown on blast myself. Vyr's very well could have a limitation like firebirds and that I've never seen it.
However it still wouldn't really matter because firebirds is 3 procs per APS, and with archon at most you can only actually do two actions per APS....cast disintegration wave/arcane strike once and blast if it is off CD.
So it becomes a limitation that functionally doesn't matter.
I'm not sure how to interpret what Script Formula 0 is or what he means to imply when he says 'enemies hit less than threshold', but my testing has showed exactly what I have the in OP.
However I've yet to do very in depth testing on the beam, but I can assure you that the number of stacks it grants does not scale with the amount of enemies it hits.
All skills have breakpoints, but even if they didn't you stacks do not build up indefinitely. You converge on a steady state maximum and level off into a repeating up/down cycle. See my spreadsheet model if you want to verify it yourself. You could also mathematically verify this, but making a spreadsheet was easier.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ISaWrDaWK8K40f83QMol1uaIYoCbq8bjQjrI6gqJY3Y/edit#gid=0
Yes, the IAS+defensive bonuses are also granted for swamii buff stacks.
Dunno, but that's just how it works.
It's worked that way for the combustion rune explosion ever since they made archon+vyr's use your highest elemental%. Looks like they just took that same code and applied it to the chantodo set.
Yeah I meant to reword that one.
Element type doesn't change, but the rune choice determines which elemental bonus% on your gear gets applied to your damage. Easiest to test with wave of destruction....do it with an archon rune not matching the element% bonus of your gear, and then do it again with a matching rune/element% bonus. You'll find that you only get the elemental damage % bonus when the rune on your bars matches your highest elemental bonus affix
Yeah I rechecked everything in this latest patch that I found in the first one.
Still true...and because the wave of destruction damage doesn't change from tick to tick, anyone can test it with a pair of elemental bracers and choosing different archon runes to put on their bar.
Stop quoting walls of text pls.
I'm assuming you're alluding to the interaction between ever increasing attack speed allowing ever more stacks to be accrued from the Vyr 6-set. If so, no you cannot do it indefinitely as you converge on a steady state maximum, unless you have infinite mobs flooding in to grant you stacks on kill.
I spreadsheeted it out if you want to try for yourself:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ISaWrDaWK8K40f83QMol1uaIYoCbq8bjQjrI6gqJY3Y/edit#gid=0
You can go to File: Download As to download a copy and then you can fiddle with the inputs on the left to see how it affects the graph.
It assumes you use Obsidian Ring, Swamii, 20 stack fazula, cast archon immediately upon its availability (not waiting for chantodo's stacks), that you cast your archon explosion once per second, and that you only use one spell to trigger obsidian ring (so it procs at a rate equal to your APS). I'm not sure if it can go faster.
Also, it doesn't matter if you have a head-start of stacks from kill procs, it still levels out.
Once you equip the chantodo set you always have one stack, you don't need to build the first one, only increase it up to 20. So it is 20 x 350 = 7000% at max stacks.
Kinda forgot I made the post over on this forum, I made updates to the one on the official forum and just brought them over here. Other than the chantodo stacking bug being fixed and the changing 4-set piece the rest of the information didn't change for this latest PTR patch.
The competitiveness of the set is immaterial to how it works.
That being said, even once we get the season-only belt it is miles behind tal's.
The Vyr 2-Set gives me all archon runes, does it matter which archon rune I put on my bar?
How do Archon Stacks work? What do they do?
How do I build more Archon Buff Stacks?
How do Chantodo's Stacks work? What do they do?
How do I build more Chantodo's Buff Stacks?