@casanova lol almost exactly like man. very nice. you have good taste :P.
i just think your gonna need a bit more survival for hell/inferno thats why i took caltrops.
80% chance to stun on FoF is really nice.. I don't normaly like using % stuff as an "ohh shiii" but 80% is rather high. Hopefully enough to run behind my friends
Yeah but...10 second cool down means for 8 seconds you can only spam entangling shot for your snare, leaving less time for all your spenders.
What about spike trap with scatter instead of strafe? No rockets, but it does AOE and will give you an instant 12 hatred, and you have a lot of spenders in your build.
You do have a point I guess. Thing is, I haven't played beta so how do traps work? Can I throw them a distance or do they just drop at my feet? A trap that just drops at my feet seems like slow game play to me and doesn't really intrest me much.
I've only seen footage of caltrops, but that can be cast from distance, I assume other traps work the same.
Edit: So whats the point of this build again? To kill things as slowly as possible, whilst you run in circles?
lol...yeah it wouldn't exactly be an entertaining build to play. Obviously if multiple sentries can happen the DPS can get very high, but it would be something that builds up. 10 sentries = 200% damage + 400% per second from the tether without me firing a single arrow, add on spike traps and the damage form multishot/evasive fire and it's pretty high DPS. I envisioned having a web of destruction that moved with me.
GladHeHasBeta, are you sure that's how the ballistics passive works? Just wonderig, I thought the 100% increase would mean the rockets go from 40% to 80% fire dmg, not 40% to 140%?
It sounds good in theory, but I have doubts in practice. On trash you have to multi-shot to get disc, but then multi-shot will probably kill the mobs. On a boss, you won't get much if any disc via multi-shot thus drastically lowering the # of sentries.
Yeah, it is definitely weaker vs. bosses without heavy direct damage. Hopefully a lot of the bosses will summon minions . For boss battles I'd probably sub out shadow power for preparation, since if the boss hits me once I'm probably dead anyway...no need for the life steal at that point. With prep I could pretty immediately spam 7 sentries. Plus, the DH naturally recovers discipline 1/sec and another 1/sec from the templar....and hopefully I'll have some gear that buffs it as well, at the very least I can keep adding 1 sentry every <4 seconds with some multishot hits until prep is back up...provided I don't need disc for vault/backflip (hopefully the templar/party can keep him occupied). The spike traps will compensate for any lost hatred from night bane, and if with scatter they overlap each other slightly and the boss stands still (hitting a tank maybe) I can hit him with 405% damage.
A lot of ifs and hopefullys in there though. I'll mostly be playing this class in a party with some friends, so I figured if I'm not as useful against the boss, meh.
Edit: Against a boss that does not drop minions I definitely would switch sentry to have rockets instead of the chain as long as he's not fire immune. Even if it is 80% dmg per rocket per 1.5 seconds that's 20%*my weapon speed (for example 1.6 from un-buffed dual xbows) = 32% DPS from the basic sentry fire + 80% * (1/1.5) = 53.3% from rockets = 85.3% DPS per sentry * 7 sentries = 597% DPS on a single target! Against groups I still want the chain for DOT and because it can hit multiple targets (no big AOE damage in the build).
I'm assuming that the sentry's basic attack speed will be the same as my weapon's, but if it is independent I'll just go for the heaviest damage 2 hand bow + quiver combo I can find.
@casanova lol almost exactly like man. very nice. you have good taste :P.
i just think your gonna need a bit more survival for hell/inferno thats why i took caltrops.
80% chance to stun on FoF is really nice.. I don't normaly like using % stuff as an "ohh shiii" but 80% is rather high. Hopefully enough to run behind my friends
Yeah but...10 second cool down means for 8 seconds you can only spam entangling shot for your snare, leaving less time for all your spenders.
What about spike trap with scatter instead of strafe? No rockets, but it does AOE and will give you an instant 12 hatred, and you have a lot of spenders in your build.
well if the 45% dmg is per second then id much rather have that. its like a spammable grasp of the dead. but if its not id just go with more slow to give me more time to attack. in hell/inferno mobs will sprint towards you so more slow is much more important then a 10% crit.
Yeah, good point. Although the caltrops you stood in would still be there, so you could move behind it still get the 60% slow effect if they get close (plus the monster AI seems to naturally funnel down towards you if you run away). I wasn't reading the rapid fire rune correctly anyway...I was thinking it would crit the 405% but actually it would just be one rocket that crits for 270% which isn't worth it at all. The 80% slow would be way better.
Since you've used caltrops in the beta maybe you could clarify something for me...it says caltrops "activates when an enemy approaches" does that mean the 6 second countdown starts when an enemy "activates" it or when you cast it?
If you used the bait the traps rune on caltrops instead would this also give your rockets a better chance to crit? This rune pairs so naturally with rapid fire and since it's your only discipline skill, why not throw down one you can stand in?
Edit: So whats the point of this build again? To kill things as slowly as possible, whilst you run in circles?
lol...yeah it wouldn't exactly be an entertaining build to play. Obviously if multiple sentries can happen the DPS can get very high, but it would be something that builds up. 10 sentries = 200% damage + 400% per second from the tether without me firing a single arrow, add on spike traps and the damage form multishot/evasive fire and it's pretty high DPS. I envisioned having a web of destruction that moved with me.
GladHeHasBeta, are you sure that's how the ballistics passive works? Just wonderig, I thought the 100% increase would mean the rockets go from 40% to 80% fire dmg, not 40% to 140%?
I guess it would depend on whether the sentry works like a pet or like a trap...Zombie Dogs doesn't specify a limit in the description either (other than 60 sec cooldown) but I'm pretty sure from watching beta playthroughs that if you cast another Zombie dogs, it replaces the ones already out. Guess I assumed it worked as a trap like caltrops and could be spammed.
Italofoca has a point though, I am basically sacrifice everything in the build to generate discipline...yes I have some evasion, but I would want to avoid using them if possible to save discipline. We'll see though...hopefully it works since I'd love to see an almost all trap build that can handle Inferno. Didn't think about the rockets rune with the rockets passive...that would be OP DPS but I'd have to drop Tactical Advantage to do it which really reduces my evasion.
Obviously if it's 1 Sentry at a time the build is pointless.
By the way, does any one know what is the DH baseline Discipline in Beta 13?
The idea is to spam sentries for all or most of my discipline far in front of me into a group of monsters then immediately begin spamming multishot with supression fire to build up more discipline for more sentries and evasive moves. Then I'd kite enemies around with vault / evasive fire (buffed by tactical advantage) while dropping spike trap with scatter for hatred (more multishot therefore more sentries!) and added DPS and then repeat as necessary. I used as many discipline cost reducers and generators as possible in order to keep my discipline supply up without needing preparation with its cooldown (tumble, surge, perfectionist, supression fire). Originally had caltrops in the build for snare, but I think with vault-tumble, evasive fire-surge, and tactical advantage I can stay out of harms way pretty well. I put shadow power with night bane in for emergency life steal and hatred generation.
If done right, I could see having 10 or more sentries down at once, all with chains, all lasting 40 seconds with custom engineering passive.
It seems like it would work in theory but that will largely depend on the mechanics of the Sentry damage / Chain of torment damage.
Keys to the mechanics would be:
1. the shadow power works with the sentry/chain damage (although if I can stay out of the way I wont need to find out)
2. That I keep several bows/xbows on me that deal different types of elemental damage instead of physical, in case of resistance / immunes. I think this might work since neither the Sentry nor the Chains specifies a damage type (such "deals x% damage as physical/fire/etc."...just that it deals weapon damage.
Keys gear affixes would be increased speed, add elemental damage, and most importantly discipline buffs.
Follower would be a templar with intervene, loyalty, charge and inspire.
This is my idea for a Sentry - Chain of Torment build for a Demon Hunter I call Chain of Command.
It's kind of a quirky build but everything integrates pretty nicely together.
It's based on a few assumptions about Sentry/Chain of Torment:
1. There is no cooldown for Sentry (there isn't) or a limit on the total number Sentries that can be on the field at once (I'm assuming it's only limited by Discipline, since for other traps like Spike Trap is specifies a limit of 3 at once)
2. That using the Evasive Fire backflip and Vault don't "break the chain" to your Sentries in some way (don't see why it would).
Primary damage will be inflicted by the Chains through casting as many as possible sentries, then using Vault and Evasive Fire to move around quickly and avoid taking hits, plus Caltrops to snare, and of course by the Sentry damage. Due to high use of many Discipline skills, I've included several discpline cost reducers and generators to keep it full.
I chose Evasive Fire with Surge because it generates 4 hatred per shot compared to 3 for other generators, plus the backflip will keep me out of harms way and give a speed boost from the Tactical Advantage passive. The Surge is to reduce the Discipline cost of the backflip to 2.
Secondary: Vault / Tumble
This will be key for mobility as well as making sure my Chains are inflicting lots of damage. The tumble is for Discipline cost reduction as a key to this build will be based on spamming tumble. Like the backflip, this will also give me a speed boost with Tactical Advantage.
First Hotkey:Sentry / Chain of Torment
This will be the primary damage dealer. I'll drop 5 or more Sentries at 20% weapon damage each along with 5 chains at 40% weapon damage per second. If the Sentry attack speed is based on my own attack speed, I'll likely go for high attack speed dual crossbows, but if the Sentry attack speed is independent, I'll aim for the highest damage 2 hand bow or crossbow I can get with a quiver to add more damage.
Second Hotkey: Multishot / Supression Fire
This skill is here mainly for the +1 Discipline after every enemy hit ability from the Supression Fire rune. According to the video preview of this skill, it appears to fire about 10 arrows, so this will be my primary method for recharging my discipline to lay more sentries.
Third Hotkey: Caltrops / Carved Stakes
This is here for its snare ability with the carved stakes for cost reduction. I considered using the Jagged Spikes (45% weapon damage) rune instead, but I would rather save the Discipline for more Sentries.
Fourth Hotkey: Shadow Power / Night Bane
This skill will be for healing in case of emergency. I am assuming that the damage done by my Sentries will also provide the life-steal from Shadow Power. The Night Bane rune will provide Hatred as well, so I can continue with the Multishot.
Passive 1: Custom Engineering
Double the duration of both my Sentries and Caltrops
Passive 2: Tactical Advantage
The speed boost this will provide for both Evasive Fire and Vault will be a big help for staying away from Monsters.
Passive 3: Perfectionist
The cost reduction of 20% to all Discipline spells will be a big help for dropping more Senties.
Follower: Templar
I think almost all Demon Hunters would use this follower. Skill would be Intervene (to bail me out of trouble, then I should be able to vault away and heal with Shadow Power), loyalty for healing, Charge for stun, Inspire for the Hatred and Discipline.
Combat flow:
Entering an area with monsters I'd immediately spam as many Sentries as I can afford arranged in a way that optimizes Chain of Torment damage also (this will take some time to master I'm sure), followed by spamming of multishot to recharge my Discipline and make room for more Sentries. If monsters get close I'll either vault or evasive fire to get away, all the while building discipline with multishot and dropping Sentries. As needed I'll drop Caltrops to snare monsters (especially bosses) and use Shadow Power to recharge health and hatred as needed, besides using Evasive Fire to generate hatred as well.
Weapon Choice:
As I said it will depend on the mechanics of the Sentry. If it has the same attack speed as my weapon, I may go for higher speed (dual xbows). If it is independent I'll go for max 2 hand damage with a bow or xbow with a quiver to add damage. I'd also want to keep a few other bows on me that deal damage differently (elemental, arcane, whatever) for dealing with immunes.
Not sure if this build would work...depends largely on the mechanics of the Sentry (would the Sentries and Chains share the life steal from Shadow Power? Elemental damage from my weapon? Chance to Critical Strike?), but if it works like I think it will, this might be a viable Trap class for Inferno. Required level is 48 (44 without Tumble).
Let me know what you think!
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This video shows casting spike trap from distance.
I've only seen footage of caltrops, but that can be cast from distance, I assume other traps work the same.
Yeah, it is definitely weaker vs. bosses without heavy direct damage. Hopefully a lot of the bosses will summon minions
A lot of ifs and hopefullys in there though. I'll mostly be playing this class in a party with some friends, so I figured if I'm not as useful against the boss, meh.
Edit: Against a boss that does not drop minions I definitely would switch sentry to have rockets instead of the chain as long as he's not fire immune. Even if it is 80% dmg per rocket per 1.5 seconds that's 20%*my weapon speed (for example 1.6 from un-buffed dual xbows) = 32% DPS from the basic sentry fire + 80% * (1/1.5) = 53.3% from rockets = 85.3% DPS per sentry * 7 sentries = 597% DPS on a single target! Against groups I still want the chain for DOT and because it can hit multiple targets (no big AOE damage in the build).
I'm assuming that the sentry's basic attack speed will be the same as my weapon's, but if it is independent I'll just go for the heaviest damage 2 hand bow + quiver combo I can find.
Yeah but...10 second cool down means for 8 seconds you can only spam entangling shot for your snare, leaving less time for all your spenders.
What about spike trap with scatter instead of strafe? No rockets, but it does AOE and will give you an instant 12 hatred, and you have a lot of spenders in your build.
Thanks!
Yeah, good point. Although the caltrops you stood in would still be there, so you could move behind it still get the 60% slow effect if they get close (plus the monster AI seems to naturally funnel down towards you if you run away). I wasn't reading the rapid fire rune correctly anyway...I was thinking it would crit the 405% but actually it would just be one rocket that crits for 270% which isn't worth it at all. The 80% slow would be way better.
Since you've used caltrops in the beta maybe you could clarify something for me...it says caltrops "activates when an enemy approaches" does that mean the 6 second countdown starts when an enemy "activates" it or when you cast it?
lol...yeah it wouldn't exactly be an entertaining build to play. Obviously if multiple sentries can happen the DPS can get very high, but it would be something that builds up. 10 sentries = 200% damage + 400% per second from the tether without me firing a single arrow, add on spike traps and the damage form multishot/evasive fire and it's pretty high DPS. I envisioned having a web of destruction that moved with me.
GladHeHasBeta, are you sure that's how the ballistics passive works? Just wonderig, I thought the 100% increase would mean the rockets go from 40% to 80% fire dmg, not 40% to 140%?
Italofoca has a point though, I am basically sacrifice everything in the build to generate discipline...yes I have some evasion, but I would want to avoid using them if possible to save discipline. We'll see though...hopefully it works since I'd love to see an almost all trap build that can handle Inferno. Didn't think about the rockets rune with the rockets passive...that would be OP DPS but I'd have to drop Tactical Advantage to do it which really reduces my evasion.
Obviously if it's 1 Sentry at a time the build is pointless.
By the way, does any one know what is the DH baseline Discipline in Beta 13?
Thanks!
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/demon-hunter#XViRTl!aUf!cYbbca
The idea is to spam sentries for all or most of my discipline far in front of me into a group of monsters then immediately begin spamming multishot with supression fire to build up more discipline for more sentries and evasive moves. Then I'd kite enemies around with vault / evasive fire (buffed by tactical advantage) while dropping spike trap with scatter for hatred (more multishot therefore more sentries!) and added DPS and then repeat as necessary. I used as many discipline cost reducers and generators as possible in order to keep my discipline supply up without needing preparation with its cooldown (tumble, surge, perfectionist, supression fire). Originally had caltrops in the build for snare, but I think with vault-tumble, evasive fire-surge, and tactical advantage I can stay out of harms way pretty well. I put shadow power with night bane in for emergency life steal and hatred generation.
If done right, I could see having 10 or more sentries down at once, all with chains, all lasting 40 seconds with custom engineering passive.
It seems like it would work in theory but that will largely depend on the mechanics of the Sentry damage / Chain of torment damage.
Keys to the mechanics would be:
1. the shadow power works with the sentry/chain damage (although if I can stay out of the way I wont need to find out)
2. That I keep several bows/xbows on me that deal different types of elemental damage instead of physical, in case of resistance / immunes. I think this might work since neither the Sentry nor the Chains specifies a damage type (such "deals x% damage as physical/fire/etc."...just that it deals weapon damage.
Keys gear affixes would be increased speed, add elemental damage, and most importantly discipline buffs.
Follower would be a templar with intervene, loyalty, charge and inspire.
It's kind of a quirky build but everything integrates pretty nicely together.
It's based on a few assumptions about Sentry/Chain of Torment:
1. There is no cooldown for Sentry (there isn't) or a limit on the total number Sentries that can be on the field at once (I'm assuming it's only limited by Discipline, since for other traps like Spike Trap is specifies a limit of 3 at once)
2. That using the Evasive Fire backflip and Vault don't "break the chain" to your Sentries in some way (don't see why it would).
Primary damage will be inflicted by the Chains through casting as many as possible sentries, then using Vault and Evasive Fire to move around quickly and avoid taking hits, plus Caltrops to snare, and of course by the Sentry damage. Due to high use of many Discipline skills, I've included several discpline cost reducers and generators to keep it full.
Here is the Build:
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/demon-hunter#XViRYl!aUf!cYbbYa
Primary: Evasive Fire / Surge
I chose Evasive Fire with Surge because it generates 4 hatred per shot compared to 3 for other generators, plus the backflip will keep me out of harms way and give a speed boost from the Tactical Advantage passive. The Surge is to reduce the Discipline cost of the backflip to 2.
Secondary: Vault / Tumble
This will be key for mobility as well as making sure my Chains are inflicting lots of damage. The tumble is for Discipline cost reduction as a key to this build will be based on spamming tumble. Like the backflip, this will also give me a speed boost with Tactical Advantage.
First Hotkey: Sentry / Chain of Torment
This will be the primary damage dealer. I'll drop 5 or more Sentries at 20% weapon damage each along with 5 chains at 40% weapon damage per second. If the Sentry attack speed is based on my own attack speed, I'll likely go for high attack speed dual crossbows, but if the Sentry attack speed is independent, I'll aim for the highest damage 2 hand bow or crossbow I can get with a quiver to add more damage.
Second Hotkey: Multishot / Supression Fire
This skill is here mainly for the +1 Discipline after every enemy hit ability from the Supression Fire rune. According to the video preview of this skill, it appears to fire about 10 arrows, so this will be my primary method for recharging my discipline to lay more sentries.
Third Hotkey: Caltrops / Carved Stakes
This is here for its snare ability with the carved stakes for cost reduction. I considered using the Jagged Spikes (45% weapon damage) rune instead, but I would rather save the Discipline for more Sentries.
Fourth Hotkey: Shadow Power / Night Bane
This skill will be for healing in case of emergency. I am assuming that the damage done by my Sentries will also provide the life-steal from Shadow Power. The Night Bane rune will provide Hatred as well, so I can continue with the Multishot.
Passive 1: Custom Engineering
Double the duration of both my Sentries and Caltrops
Passive 2: Tactical Advantage
The speed boost this will provide for both Evasive Fire and Vault will be a big help for staying away from Monsters.
Passive 3: Perfectionist
The cost reduction of 20% to all Discipline spells will be a big help for dropping more Senties.
Follower: Templar
I think almost all Demon Hunters would use this follower. Skill would be Intervene (to bail me out of trouble, then I should be able to vault away and heal with Shadow Power), loyalty for healing, Charge for stun, Inspire for the Hatred and Discipline.
Combat flow:
Entering an area with monsters I'd immediately spam as many Sentries as I can afford arranged in a way that optimizes Chain of Torment damage also (this will take some time to master I'm sure), followed by spamming of multishot to recharge my Discipline and make room for more Sentries. If monsters get close I'll either vault or evasive fire to get away, all the while building discipline with multishot and dropping Sentries. As needed I'll drop Caltrops to snare monsters (especially bosses) and use Shadow Power to recharge health and hatred as needed, besides using Evasive Fire to generate hatred as well.
Weapon Choice:
As I said it will depend on the mechanics of the Sentry. If it has the same attack speed as my weapon, I may go for higher speed (dual xbows). If it is independent I'll go for max 2 hand damage with a bow or xbow with a quiver to add damage. I'd also want to keep a few other bows on me that deal damage differently (elemental, arcane, whatever) for dealing with immunes.
Not sure if this build would work...depends largely on the mechanics of the Sentry (would the Sentries and Chains share the life steal from Shadow Power? Elemental damage from my weapon? Chance to Critical Strike?), but if it works like I think it will, this might be a viable Trap class for Inferno. Required level is 48 (44 without Tumble).
Let me know what you think!