the one in the cinametic is the largest of the pieces, not the entire soulstone.
Same thing with Diablo, actually. He was successful in shattering it, leaving the largest to use as his own. In truth, all three were shattered at some point.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Be it through hallowed grounds or lands of sorrow
All in the Forger's wake is left bereft and fallow
Is the residuum worth the cost of destruction and maiming;
Or is the shaping a culling and exercise in taming?
The road's goal is the dark Origin of Being
But be wary through what thickets it winds.
-Excerpt from the Litany of Residuum;
As Translated by He Who Brings Order
Trag'Oul / Trang'Oul is the great Dragon on whose back the world of Sanctuary, and all others, rests. It acts as the balance point, and gives reason for the Priests of Rathma -- the Necromancers -- to despise celestial beings, be they demonic or angelic, for breaking the natural cycle of things by meddling in mortal affairs. This breaks the delicate symmetry of the Three Realms, something the Necromancer understands intimately and whose sole purpose in life is to maintain it.
It is my belief that Trag'Oul is the Necromancers' personification of the World Stone.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Be it through hallowed grounds or lands of sorrow
All in the Forger's wake is left bereft and fallow
Is the residuum worth the cost of destruction and maiming;
Or is the shaping a culling and exercise in taming?
The road's goal is the dark Origin of Being
But be wary through what thickets it winds.
-Excerpt from the Litany of Residuum;
As Translated by He Who Brings Order
First of all, I cannot see how Tyral could reasonably have been created from Belial.
Sorry, I meant the persona of Tyrael was created by Belial, an alias. They're not distinct entities. Who you think is an angel is and has always been Belial. From the manual, it seems Asmodan is much more pre-occupied with reigning in Hell than anything else. Of course, though Belial is Lord of Lies, it WOULD be difficult for him to pull off something as hard as fooling the entire angelic order.
When the Worldstone was destroyed, wasn't the barrier between the worlds shattered, not established?
I feel a little silly saying this -- 'cause I'm sure someone here must know -- but I don't really have ANY idea what the World Stone's true purpose or nature is. All I know is that the Soul Stones were carved from it, and they act as spiritual black holes, sucking in spirits when prompted, storing them and their energy. Thinking of it this way, perhaps it IS better to say that the boundaries between the Realms will collapse; perhaps the World Stone embodies the very essence -- the "spirit" and identity -- of Sanctuary, keeping it separate from the others. For Baal to change the World Stone would mean he would change the nature of Sanctuary from one of neutrality to one of Hadean quality. With it destroyed, Sanctuary will no longer be able to distinguish itself from the other Realms, and its spiritual forces may flood all of Sanctuary, as they once did in the day prior to the Sin Wars.
However, at one point I had thought that the World Stone acted as a sort of three-way bridge between the Realms' islands. Each island was kept stationary and connected, but when that basis is gone they'll float apart. The respective energies -- or perhaps a tide in the Void -- would eventually push all three back together.
Yet another interpretation is that the Soul Stones could act as bridges of energy to one of the magical Realms, allowing the Three to pull upon the ambient energies of Hell and concentrate them into themselves. Perhaps the World Stone does this at an even greater level, allowing Sanctuary to feed off Heaven and Hell and empower mortal life. When that mortal dies, it goes back to Heaven or Hell to re-energize them to repeat the process. (Huh, beginning to think of the carbon cycle...)
At any rate, I still think my hypothesis for Baal may be valid. He'd be an incorporeal entity floating about, slowly corrupting the Angelic Host. (And remember the Angels are said to be as capable of great wrath as any demon, so all it might take is just a push or two to go from righteous fury to zealous rage. Just look at the Zakarum.) Perhaps some properties stolen from the World Stone could help him mask his presence?
The soustlones aren't necessary for existing though, and as far as we know have no use when calling someone or something from the Abyss.
Yeah, I thought of that. The only thing I could think of is to compare them to that story of the boat rower who is forever destines to row the boat unless someone else can take his place, whether they agree to it or are tricked into it. The Soul Stones, being spiritual vacuums, must always be filled. Of course, I'm sure the Three have also recognized the liability this poses, so they must have figured out a way around it.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Be it through hallowed grounds or lands of sorrow
All in the Forger's wake is left bereft and fallow
Is the residuum worth the cost of destruction and maiming;
Or is the shaping a culling and exercise in taming?
The road's goal is the dark Origin of Being
But be wary through what thickets it winds.
-Excerpt from the Litany of Residuum;
As Translated by He Who Brings Order
I joined some time ago but never had a chance to post until now, so I've not had any interest in reading many posts until just now, and I find that the "Tyrael = bad" formula is somewhat frowned upon. Woops. Well, read and see if this is still worth it. :3
Now, I'm not one for prophecies. Downright detest them, honestly. They always spoil the ending -- and the ending here is that Sanctuary dies. There are multiple prophecies recited throughout Diablo II material and various iterations thereof, and the following are the elements I wish to focus on: that, according to Lan Esen by way of Alkor, Sancutary is destined for ruination; the Prime Evil's defeat is "illusory", and they've yet to play the "final gambit"; and that the lore of each character faction (Druids, Barbarians, Amazons, etc.) assert that Sanctuary, by the end of days, shall no longer by at the whim of outside powers. For quick and easy reference, I quote the Prophecies:
Quote from name="Prophecy of Lam Esen (presumably) " »
"And the evil that was once vanquished shall rise anew. Wrapped in the 'guise of man, shall He walk among the innocent and Terror shall consume they that dwell upon the Earth. Behold, the war amongst the Heavens shall not be contained and the sons of man shall be engulfed in the flood of conflict, and all hope shall be lost unto them. And He shall make war upon the Heavens, and the Heavens shall gur themselves as for battle. The righteous shall fall upon the wicked and lay siege to the very gates of Hell. And He shall take peace from mankind and loose great Destruction upon the Earth. The Lord of Hatred shall ascend his throne, and the fires of Hell shall devour all. And He shall meet out his vengeance upon all flesh and the blood of innocence shall run as great torrents. Who then shall be saved?"
Quote from Prophecy of Bul-Kathos »
"And a child will cradle Terror in his breast as the heart of man falls under the shadow.
A Wanderer will pass through the ancient lands trailing chaos in his wake.
The Three Brothers will be reunited as the mortal world trembles before their might.
And so it was foretold that the Three, once reunited, would be shattered again—
Their defeat would be illusory—that the final gambit had yet to be played..."
"And now at last the storm surges forth from the southlands, and the hand of Destruction
Reaches out to undo the workings of the Ancients. The tides of Hell surge—ready to smash
Down upon the shores of the mortal world — to drown the guilty and the innocent alike."
Quote from name="Athulua (Amozonia) »
"[The Amazon's'] oracles long ago predicted the Dark Exile, and they have been preparing to combat it ever since. Amazons regard the destruction of the Three Prime Evils as their destiny, ushering in a new era when mortal men and women can at long last take their rightful place in the universe, no longer merely playthings for the beings of the Outer Realms."
Assuming all of these prophecies are accurate -- and many HAVE been fulfilled thus far by that Band of Adventurers -- then there is obviously some contradictions, making them mutually exclusive. Right? Not necessarily. This is where I, one who specializes in speculation and ramblings, do what I do best. The following is just a possiblity of what may be to come.
A major problem facing a continuation of the Diablo franchise centers on the fact that two of the Souls Stones have been destroyed, supposedly casting Diablo and Mephisto to the furthest most reaches of the Abyss. (Digression: I, for one, consider the scenario where Lillith reincarnates the Three as apocryphal.) However, in Mephisto's case I see an easy solution: it is known that he corrupted the High Council of Zakarum with shards of his Soul Stone, the largest of which was implanted in the hand of the Que-Hagan of that Order. What of the other shards? Certainly the Council Members were killed, but their shards were left unacconted for. Might it be possible that a risiduum of Mephisto's essence remains? Obviously. Moreover, were the shards re-united, he may manifest in an even greater, more powerful form, given that their collective mass/energy would probably surpass that of the Stone held by the Que-Hagan. This would then validate the Prophecy wherein it is stated that "The Lord of Hatred ascends his Throne". Mephisto has thrown the Zakarum into chaos and left them decimated. Too, the Eastern Jungles are a loci of great power, so it's reasonable that many of the local mage clans have also suffered heavily. Lastly, Mephisto hasn't received his due, in my opinion, though his influence is arguably the most far reaching in Sanctuary: he bent the Zakarum to his will, clamped down on the East, and sent forth lieutenants to Tristram resulting in Diablo's release.
Now, what of Diablo? After rallying the legions of hell, his Stone was shattered at the Hell Forge, casting him into the Abyss. (Note a curiosity here: a band of mortals succede at punching through the Hellish legions and ripping out its black heart, where demigods strove to do just this for aeons but failed...) For his return I see little alternative than to again pull upon Mephisto, who may have provided his brother a shard as a backup to take to Hell. It is my belief that Diablo rallied those demonic legions that once helped overthrow he and his brothers, leaving the greater bulk of the loyalists relatively unscathed. Why? Loyalty is a fickle thing, and The Three simply used the lesser evils -- Andariel, Duriel -- and their adherents. As I'll explain later, the Three may have smelled trouble brewing in Hell, and modified their plans accordingly...
Finally, Baal. We know little of his fate, other than that he succeded in corrupting the World Stone, the bridge between the realms. Before its destruction at the hands of Tyrael, Baal's spiritual essence fled into the Stone. Where to from there? According to my hypothesis -- HEAVEN!
See where this might be going? Mephisto remains at large in Sanctuary; Diablo lingers on in Hell; and Baal, by the power of the World Stone (which, as I've read, was created by the Angels, particularly Inarius) awaits in Heaven. Each of them is positioned in each of the dominant Realms. I'll leave this you with this ominous message as I jump to another strand of my web of intrigue.
Enter Tyrael. Rebel, forger of Orders, curiously neglectful, and refuses to adhere to the dictates of Heavenly isolationism. Repeatedly he intervenes on the part of Mankind, to the chagrine of his colleagues. My hypothesis?
Tyrael is dead.
The entity leading the Heroes is an imposter; none other than Belial, Lord of Lies. Having witnessed that the Prime Evils' efforts in the mortal plane, Belial slays Tyrael and takes his place (or, perhaps, "Tyrael" was created by Belial to begin with) and attempts to stop the Brothers in Sanctuary. This would explain Belial's absence. In the end, pulling upon the powers granted him by both Heaven and Hell, "Tyrael" destroys the World Stone and severs all three realms. But to what end? To fulfill the prophecies, of course -- to ensure that SANCTUARY comes to dominance. With the World Stone destroyed, the remainder of the demonic legions on earth are left stranded, as are those Angels who followed "Tyrael". And as we know, Outer Beings are left weak without a connection to their home realms, and can maintain their existence only through using humans and their souls. Maybe it is Tyrael's/Belial's plan to wait out the aeons, rally those Outer Being survivors and lead them in this new world, where they shall corrupt and possess all of mankind, the most plentiful source of energy through out the realms. Years into the future, when the link between the three realms is re-established, Belial will have succeded where Diablo, Mephisto and Baal "failed" -- procuring an endless source of spiritual, HUMAN energy, and directing it via an Angelic and Demonic alliance against both Heaven and Hell. In this way, Sanctuary is no longer at the whim of outside forces.
It is at this time that The Three, strategically located in Heaven, Earth and Hell, pull their final gambit, using an unwitting Belial as he used them, and strike out with a ferocity this world -- no world -- has ever witnessed.
All will quake with Fear.
In the absence of any sovereign power, the dissidents of the Burning Hells are polarized by Fear.
Hatred leads to suffering.
Mankind, resenting being the playthings of others, gurs itself for battle to prove itself superior against the Hated outer realms.
And the suffering begets the final Destruction.
The righteous fury of the Heavens, ill-content with the sins of Man, prepare to fulfill the original plans of the Anguinis Council to Destroy Sanctuary.
Who, then, shall be saved?
Afterword
One strand to tie up: Asmodan. What has the lord of Sin been up to? I've no clue, honestly, but I think he had something to do with the onset of the SIN Wars. Perhaps it was he who secretly suggested to the Three totake Sanctuary as their own, and used this as an excuse to unite the other Evils together in an attempt to overthrow them. Of course, he vainly believed Heaven would abandon its own defense to aid Mankind against the banished Three; actually, they would up doing the exact opposite, fortifying their realm even further. But again, where does he FIT? Sins lead to Terror, Hatred, Destruction, Lies, Pain and Anguish....
Another prominant character whose fate is unknown is Horazon the Summoner. He vanished, leaving some depraved Vizjerei contemporary of Drognan to take up his mantle. Might he prove pivitol in empowering the Three, or re-establishing a balance between all Realms? Will he at some point embody one of the Evils? I see no reason that Horazon, possessed by the essence of Mephisto, could not take advantage of the blurring of the lines between the Realms and pull Diablo's essence from the Abyss before it is fully diluted. The ensuing chaos and a quick marshalling of demonic forces could liberate Baal's Soul Stone from Tyrael's clutches, allowing for his own reincarnation as well. Who knows.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Be it through hallowed grounds or lands of sorrow
All in the Forger's wake is left bereft and fallow
Is the residuum worth the cost of destruction and maiming;
Or is the shaping a culling and exercise in taming?
The road's goal is the dark Origin of Being
But be wary through what thickets it winds.
-Excerpt from the Litany of Residuum;
As Translated by He Who Brings Order
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Same thing with Diablo, actually. He was successful in shattering it, leaving the largest to use as his own. In truth, all three were shattered at some point.
All in the Forger's wake is left bereft and fallow-Excerpt from the Litany of Residuum;
As Translated by He Who Brings Order
It is my belief that Trag'Oul is the Necromancers' personification of the World Stone.
All in the Forger's wake is left bereft and fallow-Excerpt from the Litany of Residuum;
As Translated by He Who Brings Order
Sorry, I meant the persona of Tyrael was created by Belial, an alias. They're not distinct entities. Who you think is an angel is and has always been Belial. From the manual, it seems Asmodan is much more pre-occupied with reigning in Hell than anything else. Of course, though Belial is Lord of Lies, it WOULD be difficult for him to pull off something as hard as fooling the entire angelic order.
I feel a little silly saying this -- 'cause I'm sure someone here must know -- but I don't really have ANY idea what the World Stone's true purpose or nature is. All I know is that the Soul Stones were carved from it, and they act as spiritual black holes, sucking in spirits when prompted, storing them and their energy. Thinking of it this way, perhaps it IS better to say that the boundaries between the Realms will collapse; perhaps the World Stone embodies the very essence -- the "spirit" and identity -- of Sanctuary, keeping it separate from the others. For Baal to change the World Stone would mean he would change the nature of Sanctuary from one of neutrality to one of Hadean quality. With it destroyed, Sanctuary will no longer be able to distinguish itself from the other Realms, and its spiritual forces may flood all of Sanctuary, as they once did in the day prior to the Sin Wars.
However, at one point I had thought that the World Stone acted as a sort of three-way bridge between the Realms' islands. Each island was kept stationary and connected, but when that basis is gone they'll float apart. The respective energies -- or perhaps a tide in the Void -- would eventually push all three back together.
Yet another interpretation is that the Soul Stones could act as bridges of energy to one of the magical Realms, allowing the Three to pull upon the ambient energies of Hell and concentrate them into themselves. Perhaps the World Stone does this at an even greater level, allowing Sanctuary to feed off Heaven and Hell and empower mortal life. When that mortal dies, it goes back to Heaven or Hell to re-energize them to repeat the process. (Huh, beginning to think of the carbon cycle...)
At any rate, I still think my hypothesis for Baal may be valid. He'd be an incorporeal entity floating about, slowly corrupting the Angelic Host. (And remember the Angels are said to be as capable of great wrath as any demon, so all it might take is just a push or two to go from righteous fury to zealous rage. Just look at the Zakarum.) Perhaps some properties stolen from the World Stone could help him mask his presence?
Yeah, I thought of that. The only thing I could think of is to compare them to that story of the boat rower who is forever destines to row the boat unless someone else can take his place, whether they agree to it or are tricked into it. The Soul Stones, being spiritual vacuums, must always be filled. Of course, I'm sure the Three have also recognized the liability this poses, so they must have figured out a way around it.
All in the Forger's wake is left bereft and fallow-Excerpt from the Litany of Residuum;
As Translated by He Who Brings Order
Now, I'm not one for prophecies. Downright detest them, honestly. They always spoil the ending -- and the ending here is that Sanctuary dies. There are multiple prophecies recited throughout Diablo II material and various iterations thereof, and the following are the elements I wish to focus on: that, according to Lan Esen by way of Alkor, Sancutary is destined for ruination; the Prime Evil's defeat is "illusory", and they've yet to play the "final gambit"; and that the lore of each character faction (Druids, Barbarians, Amazons, etc.) assert that Sanctuary, by the end of days, shall no longer by at the whim of outside powers. For quick and easy reference, I quote the Prophecies:
Assuming all of these prophecies are accurate -- and many HAVE been fulfilled thus far by that Band of Adventurers -- then there is obviously some contradictions, making them mutually exclusive. Right? Not necessarily. This is where I, one who specializes in speculation and ramblings, do what I do best. The following is just a possiblity of what may be to come.
A major problem facing a continuation of the Diablo franchise centers on the fact that two of the Souls Stones have been destroyed, supposedly casting Diablo and Mephisto to the furthest most reaches of the Abyss. (Digression: I, for one, consider the scenario where Lillith reincarnates the Three as apocryphal.) However, in Mephisto's case I see an easy solution: it is known that he corrupted the High Council of Zakarum with shards of his Soul Stone, the largest of which was implanted in the hand of the Que-Hagan of that Order. What of the other shards? Certainly the Council Members were killed, but their shards were left unacconted for. Might it be possible that a risiduum of Mephisto's essence remains? Obviously. Moreover, were the shards re-united, he may manifest in an even greater, more powerful form, given that their collective mass/energy would probably surpass that of the Stone held by the Que-Hagan. This would then validate the Prophecy wherein it is stated that "The Lord of Hatred ascends his Throne". Mephisto has thrown the Zakarum into chaos and left them decimated. Too, the Eastern Jungles are a loci of great power, so it's reasonable that many of the local mage clans have also suffered heavily. Lastly, Mephisto hasn't received his due, in my opinion, though his influence is arguably the most far reaching in Sanctuary: he bent the Zakarum to his will, clamped down on the East, and sent forth lieutenants to Tristram resulting in Diablo's release.
Now, what of Diablo? After rallying the legions of hell, his Stone was shattered at the Hell Forge, casting him into the Abyss. (Note a curiosity here: a band of mortals succede at punching through the Hellish legions and ripping out its black heart, where demigods strove to do just this for aeons but failed...) For his return I see little alternative than to again pull upon Mephisto, who may have provided his brother a shard as a backup to take to Hell. It is my belief that Diablo rallied those demonic legions that once helped overthrow he and his brothers, leaving the greater bulk of the loyalists relatively unscathed. Why? Loyalty is a fickle thing, and The Three simply used the lesser evils -- Andariel, Duriel -- and their adherents. As I'll explain later, the Three may have smelled trouble brewing in Hell, and modified their plans accordingly...
Finally, Baal. We know little of his fate, other than that he succeded in corrupting the World Stone, the bridge between the realms. Before its destruction at the hands of Tyrael, Baal's spiritual essence fled into the Stone. Where to from there? According to my hypothesis -- HEAVEN!
See where this might be going? Mephisto remains at large in Sanctuary; Diablo lingers on in Hell; and Baal, by the power of the World Stone (which, as I've read, was created by the Angels, particularly Inarius) awaits in Heaven. Each of them is positioned in each of the dominant Realms. I'll leave this you with this ominous message as I jump to another strand of my web of intrigue.
Enter Tyrael. Rebel, forger of Orders, curiously neglectful, and refuses to adhere to the dictates of Heavenly isolationism. Repeatedly he intervenes on the part of Mankind, to the chagrine of his colleagues. My hypothesis?
Tyrael is dead.
The entity leading the Heroes is an imposter; none other than Belial, Lord of Lies. Having witnessed that the Prime Evils' efforts in the mortal plane, Belial slays Tyrael and takes his place (or, perhaps, "Tyrael" was created by Belial to begin with) and attempts to stop the Brothers in Sanctuary. This would explain Belial's absence. In the end, pulling upon the powers granted him by both Heaven and Hell, "Tyrael" destroys the World Stone and severs all three realms. But to what end? To fulfill the prophecies, of course -- to ensure that SANCTUARY comes to dominance. With the World Stone destroyed, the remainder of the demonic legions on earth are left stranded, as are those Angels who followed "Tyrael". And as we know, Outer Beings are left weak without a connection to their home realms, and can maintain their existence only through using humans and their souls. Maybe it is Tyrael's/Belial's plan to wait out the aeons, rally those Outer Being survivors and lead them in this new world, where they shall corrupt and possess all of mankind, the most plentiful source of energy through out the realms. Years into the future, when the link between the three realms is re-established, Belial will have succeded where Diablo, Mephisto and Baal "failed" -- procuring an endless source of spiritual, HUMAN energy, and directing it via an Angelic and Demonic alliance against both Heaven and Hell. In this way, Sanctuary is no longer at the whim of outside forces.
It is at this time that The Three, strategically located in Heaven, Earth and Hell, pull their final gambit, using an unwitting Belial as he used them, and strike out with a ferocity this world -- no world -- has ever witnessed.
All will quake with Fear.
Hatred leads to suffering.
And the suffering begets the final Destruction.
Afterword
One strand to tie up: Asmodan. What has the lord of Sin been up to? I've no clue, honestly, but I think he had something to do with the onset of the SIN Wars. Perhaps it was he who secretly suggested to the Three totake Sanctuary as their own, and used this as an excuse to unite the other Evils together in an attempt to overthrow them. Of course, he vainly believed Heaven would abandon its own defense to aid Mankind against the banished Three; actually, they would up doing the exact opposite, fortifying their realm even further. But again, where does he FIT? Sins lead to Terror, Hatred, Destruction, Lies, Pain and Anguish....
Another prominant character whose fate is unknown is Horazon the Summoner. He vanished, leaving some depraved Vizjerei contemporary of Drognan to take up his mantle. Might he prove pivitol in empowering the Three, or re-establishing a balance between all Realms? Will he at some point embody one of the Evils? I see no reason that Horazon, possessed by the essence of Mephisto, could not take advantage of the blurring of the lines between the Realms and pull Diablo's essence from the Abyss before it is fully diluted. The ensuing chaos and a quick marshalling of demonic forces could liberate Baal's Soul Stone from Tyrael's clutches, allowing for his own reincarnation as well. Who knows.
All in the Forger's wake is left bereft and fallow-Excerpt from the Litany of Residuum;
As Translated by He Who Brings Order