quick question on this small part of your post. while i am not at all in favor of there being a BoP system, im not entirely against a BoE system if done correctly as i stated much earlier in this discussion. my question is like you said you want to use items that "you spent time getting." with the way the D2 economy is set up, most people dont use anything they find (except for the early on items when your a low level), it is mostly items other people have found or duped. wouldnt you rather find that super unique item and have it actually be worth something? not have to find 40 of them for there to actually be any value to it.
I use a lot of rares/uniques leveling up. It's nice to then use those again if I make an alt. And also...just because I found that super unique...doesn't mean 40 other people won't have it. They'll still have it...they just wouldn't be able to trade it if there was a BoP or BoE system. And who is to say I won't want to use that same unique leveling another character? I don't want to be pigeonholed by some crap loot system like WoW in D3.
Quote from "moonshine" »
i stated in an earlier post in this thread, if blizzard implemented a respec option, you wouldnt have to reroll characters, granted some people would just because... but with a respec option you can make one barb, and respec him whenever instead of having to roll 10 barbs just to get the last one right. with a BoE system, and not everything has to be BoE.. just super rare stuff, i personally think it would help the items to retain some value.
BoE is a horrible idea. There are so many varying uniques and rares with stats that maybe one at the moment is nice, but you find something new that is better, then you're stuck with this good item that can't be traded or passed down to another char. Take rings/ammys for instance. Those can be used by any class pretty much. I have a sorce who has a real nice ring, but then I find a better one and equip it. Now I want to make a necro and I want to use the ring I no longer use on him...o...wait...I can't cuz it's BoE.
Quote from "moonshine" »
do i think blizzard would do this to diablo 3? highly doubtful, but i wouldnt be terribly upset if they did, as long as it was done correctly.
I agree that it's highly doubtful it will happen...however...i think if they did they'd lose a lot of players because that kind of system has no place in a hack and slash and fans are already pissed about the graphics...which can be somewhat looked past...but a BoE/BoP system...that's just asking for trouble.
Holy shit, if they add a BoE or BoP system, or any rolling system, I will not be buying Diablo 3.
Do NOT cater this action oriented game series to WoW players because they're too slow to click on an item before someone else does.
Oh, they've already catered to WoW players in the loot system.
Every player gets there own specific loot drops. So what you see on your screen that drops...only you can loot it. No more intense click fests for uber uniques.
Disclaimer : Please do not come into this thread to flame or make incessant claims that this will not be Diablo at all with these new systems. Do not claim it is a copy of World of Warcraft just because of this idea. Many games to this day borrow ideas from others. There are no "original" games anymore, only original concepts. Even Diablo 1 and 2 were worlds of difference when D2 added new things and even then, the "hardcore" fans would whine that it wasn't "Diablo."
If you really did play Diablo 2 over B.net at all then you know the economy sucked because of the myriad of uniques everyone had. Even I had four mules packed with high-end runes and gear and I had one mule carrying specifically Windforces, Eaglehorns, Stormshields, and Grandfathers.
When a game's item, like in Diablo 2, never had to be destroyed or sold because there was no reason to, then the economy will blow. If you can just keep muling or stashing or trading HIGH-END uniques over and over again, even after using them, then it becomes Diablo 2 in terms of trading / economy all over again.
Gold has no value in Diablo 2 whatsoever, only to repair your gear. When I used to frequent the trade channels and I hear, "40 SoJs for a .08 Windforce!! WHISPER ME NOW!!" it became quite clear that the economy went to crap.
Blizzard has to, and I strongly emphasize this because then it will be Diablo 2's economy again, implement some sort of way to stop the influx and retainment of high-end uniques to be able to be traded over and over again. And I believe a BoP (for certain universal items, like maybe a +20 attribute amulet ^_^) would help deter the economy from going to crap.
Now, with the Bind on Equip system, one would still be able to trade high-end uniques but once it is equipped, it becomes yours forever and cannot be traded. This will at least let a spellcaster who picks up a Mace +2 to sell to a warrior class without problems. I'm not saying that this will stop all items from becoming currency (hello, SoJs and runes) but it will at least stop the economy from going to crap.
You want a system like that? Go play WoW.
The great thing about the Diablo series is that it didn't feel like working grinding for items. It was fun and enjoyable. If you got a super duper most excellent awesome item, used it and then wanted to reroll....you didn't have to go farm for that item again or pray that a rare similar to it would drop.
The BoP and BoE system is one of things I disliked about WoW to begin with. I came from EQ where you could reuse items that YOU SPENT TIME getting.
If I put in my time to play the game and get items, I do not want to be forced into doing it again. Those items are mine and I want to be able to freely trade them between my characters and to other characters for items they might have that I want.
The good news is that Blizzard wouldn't put such a system into D3. They know the players of the Diablo series do not want a system like it. Plus, the Diablo series in no way supports such a system. It's a hack and slash and the fun about the game is to click, kill, and loot.
It's easy and though repetitive...it still retains its replay value...unlike WoW.
I'm 99% confident that we won't have to worry about Blizzard doing something so retarded...but if they did....that would be the icing on the cake. Many players can look the other way when it comes to the graphics, but when you start fucking with the game play...you're going to piss off a ton more and bullshit game mechanics like that in D3 will be a deal breaker for a good majority.
fargnbastage, you saying that the gameplay video shows everything that the game will be
correct me if im wrong but i believe that's assumption
and if you played it that long, you have no reason to complain, you paid for the game, you played it to the end, making fun of WoW is making fun of yourself because once upon a time, you were one of those people
and dont troll on other people telling them to fuck off, seriously what is wrong with you? show some respect to other people and be appreciative that blizzard is doing this for us
I'm not making fun of myself for bashing WoW since I played it. I realized long ago that the game was horrible months before BC was released. I stopped playing as much and kept my sub up because some of my guildies were still playing.
I also stopped PvEing for the most part and just PvP'd. I would camp people, gank, and do arenas.
no they arent, theyve established the fact that NO you wont be paying, it's off of battle.net
Yes it will be on Battle.net....a new version. Go back and watch the video. When someone asks "Will there be a monthly fee?" The dev responds "Right now we aren't sure whether we will or will not have a subscription for D3"
The problem that most of us have with the graphics is the lack of bump maping in the skins and models.
Instead of using the same gritty style and bump maping found in D2 in the Art Design, it is as though Blizzard exported the skins and models from WC3/WoW and put them in D3.
It simply doesn't fit.
The color and lighting is fine...cept maybe the blue/green fog in dungeons. D2 had plenty of light and color. But D2 also had texture, bump maping, and realistic Art Design. D3 is lacking it all and looks cartoony.
So all you haters can stop bitching about us not like the color or lighting because that's not the issue.:thumbsup:
And for the record I don't play WoW and never will. It's not that I think WoW is cartoony, repetitive, full of leet-speek kiddies, etc. I don't play WoW or any other MMO because I just cannot deal with having to pay a monthly fee to play a game. I don't care how good it is, I will never be good with a subscription based game. Since you are paying each month you feel complelled to play because if you don't then that is money wasted.
It's not like the fee is pro-rated for the times when you are not playing. Go on a trip for 2 weeks, well you are still paying for those 2 weeks of WoW, Star Wars, LoTR, The Matrix, etc. The compultion to play as much as possible so as to not waste the fee is why I avoid all MMO's. Now I am sure there are many MMO players who do not have this hangup of mine, but I do and that is why I don't do MMO's!
What will you do if you have to pay a fee for D3? You know that they are considering this...
did D2 keep the same look that Act 1 did? NO it changed from rogue encampment to hell all the way to a snowy summit, its IS possible to have bump mapping, D2 never changed skins/models throughout the whole game, NOW you start complaining
they can tone down color pallet depending on the location, you're an idiot, it's not gonna be bright and peachy in a cave as compared to a forest where sun will shine through
there is no logic in YOUR argument, you're too close-minded in thought
Oh my god your reading comprehension is TERRIBLE! I'm done talking to you until you learn how to read and comprehend the words in front of your beady little eyes, you pathetic putz.
If you play only on one side (Factions: Horde/Alliance) you are getting only about half of the game. Add to that different paths; different characters; getting items; just exploring the world. I would say it has as much, or more replay value than Diablo 2. You, sir, probably have never played WoW. EDIT: I KNOW you haven't played it enough to know what you're talking about.. Or else, you're a hypocrite. I, myself, have only spent casual time playing it (On free private servers.), and I STILL know more than you about the game. Try giving a game a chance before you bash it in your ignorance. That being said; I'm not a WarCraft fanboy. WarCraft 3 was a horrible disappointment compared to StarCraft for me. So, don't start with that B.S., which I know you were going to do.
--- Johnny.. What are we gonna do with you? The change in StarCraft 2 was negligible. The only people that were satisfied with it were the ones that only partially thought that the game was too "Wow-ish". The people who were most vocal about it were never satisfied with the change. I should know; I frequent all major StarCraft 2 forums. It was very negligible, and was even less of a change than the "How It Should Look Like" pictures that plague this site.
You know where assuming gets you? No where...because assumptions are based off of no knowledge and are usually wrong.
You should keep those banana lips shut and not shoot prematurely from your cockholster.
I played WoW from release and up until a couple months ago. I played both horde and alliance. I have seen all the end game content. I have seen most of the bosses in Sunwell. I have killed Illidain. I've basically done it all.
There is no replay value in WoW because there is no sense of accomplishment. They pigeon hold you to factions and then destroy world PvP with bgs which are northing more than amusement rides for carebears and casual PvPers to enjoy.
WoW is linear, with a hold your hands quest system. It's a great game for people new to MMOs, or for people with little time to play and who want to reach end game quick and fast.
Real MMOs take effort and time. Quests mean something and you feel a sense of accomplishment. They do not hold your hand throughout every level.
After giving this some thought, here's my opinion.
We indeed haven't seen more than 20 mins of gameplay so far, it'd be nice to see 10x as much in the future and judge how the game looks overall. I must admit I was almost shocked by the visuals when the game was first announced; it looked cartoonish and over-coloured all around. Since then my opinion has mellowed, but I still think it could be desaturated JUST A BIT and given some more detail. Either by more polygons on the characters (probably not the best way) or simply adding Bump- and Normal Mapping to the characters, and retexturing them with ''specular highlights'' and whatnot on the textures. Already that would make a drastic difference, I suppose.
There can be light and colour in daytime, and there should. Now when I recall playing D2, it was fairly saturated all around and it had a lot of colour. So now when I look at the game, you can say its colours have been desaturated in D3. As so, it's certainly not the colours that bother me anymore, it's the shading.
From up close, the game just appears to resemble WoW. It's most likely my personal judgement and visual perception, but I can't help noticing this. The gameplay video shows the gore and the visual look to be almost seperate in my eyes, in a way they don't fit together. It's like adding gore to a children game. Anyway, it'd be extremely difficult to transplant D2 from 2D form into 3D, but that should give a small perspective on how the game ideally would appear in my visions.
But what the heck, I'll still play the game even if it wasn't as good-looking as it could be. These are just ''my'' suggestions on how to make the game better, and besides, the game probably isn't visually even honed to absolute perfection yet. Who knows if Blizzard has something different in mind as the game appears to be in alpha stage visually.
I agree 100%. It's not so much the colors or the lighting, because D2 had both color and lighting...but it's the shading and texturing of the skins and models. They are too smooth and cartoon like.:thumbsup: And the armor...jesus...the armor went from a Gothic style to WoW-like. That's a bad move, IMO.
Hi guys, I'm new here and I just had to register when I saw the posts of this thread.
Can someone actually be more childish than the guys here who says Diablo needs to be dark?
For christ sake, when I look outside, I can see the sun is shining. ISN'T THAT REALISTIC? If fulltime darkness is reality to you nerds, then I highly suggest you to rise up from your chair and go outside to the daylight (if it's night out there then wait til it's daylight). I really can't believe how you can complain about such thing. I BET IT'S NOT NIGHT ALL THE TIME IN THE WORLD OF SANCTUARY.
And 2nd thing, it's been 8 years since d2, times have changed and graphics have improved. Should D3 be the same sharp edged d2 that we saw 8 years ago? NO, it should be a game made with the same basic idea than D2, but made with the programs and knowledge of the year 2008 and so on.
You guys are just pathetic. Grow up, and more importantly, get some fresh air!
P.S. I never should have posted this reply, as someone once said "Never argue with idiots, they will bring you down to their level and beat you with experience."
hahahaha fargnbastage WOW im close-minded for thinking that the whole video is not how the gameplay video is but YOU'RE not close-minded for thinking that the whole game is NOT all the same, that makes so much sense, it really does...
stop calling my argument weak because it's based on nothing, i'm basing it on the fact that they know what they're doing and yet again, yours is on a 20 min vide, if you dont like it, stop complaining acting so childish
*bangs head on desk*
Why would the game change in appearance? What makes you think that in another part of Act 1 that they will suddenly add bump mapping, change the whole Art Design, give every model new skins, and tone down the color pallet?
That would basically be a whole new game...and it's not possible to have bump mapping in one part of a game and then have it in another. It is also impossible to change skins/models from one part of the map to another.
You simply just aren't thinking logically. :thumbsup:
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I use a lot of rares/uniques leveling up. It's nice to then use those again if I make an alt. And also...just because I found that super unique...doesn't mean 40 other people won't have it. They'll still have it...they just wouldn't be able to trade it if there was a BoP or BoE system. And who is to say I won't want to use that same unique leveling another character? I don't want to be pigeonholed by some crap loot system like WoW in D3.
BoE is a horrible idea. There are so many varying uniques and rares with stats that maybe one at the moment is nice, but you find something new that is better, then you're stuck with this good item that can't be traded or passed down to another char. Take rings/ammys for instance. Those can be used by any class pretty much. I have a sorce who has a real nice ring, but then I find a better one and equip it. Now I want to make a necro and I want to use the ring I no longer use on him...o...wait...I can't cuz it's BoE.
I agree that it's highly doubtful it will happen...however...i think if they did they'd lose a lot of players because that kind of system has no place in a hack and slash and fans are already pissed about the graphics...which can be somewhat looked past...but a BoE/BoP system...that's just asking for trouble.
Oh yeah, where did you hear this? Link please. Also, what certain loot?
If by "certain" loot you're talking about all uniques...then that still sucks.
Oh, they've already catered to WoW players in the loot system.
Every player gets there own specific loot drops. So what you see on your screen that drops...only you can loot it. No more intense click fests for uber uniques.
You want a system like that? Go play WoW.
The great thing about the Diablo series is that it didn't feel like working grinding for items. It was fun and enjoyable. If you got a super duper most excellent awesome item, used it and then wanted to reroll....you didn't have to go farm for that item again or pray that a rare similar to it would drop.
The BoP and BoE system is one of things I disliked about WoW to begin with. I came from EQ where you could reuse items that YOU SPENT TIME getting.
If I put in my time to play the game and get items, I do not want to be forced into doing it again. Those items are mine and I want to be able to freely trade them between my characters and to other characters for items they might have that I want.
The good news is that Blizzard wouldn't put such a system into D3. They know the players of the Diablo series do not want a system like it. Plus, the Diablo series in no way supports such a system. It's a hack and slash and the fun about the game is to click, kill, and loot.
It's easy and though repetitive...it still retains its replay value...unlike WoW.
I'm 99% confident that we won't have to worry about Blizzard doing something so retarded...but if they did....that would be the icing on the cake. Many players can look the other way when it comes to the graphics, but when you start fucking with the game play...you're going to piss off a ton more and bullshit game mechanics like that in D3 will be a deal breaker for a good majority.
I'm not making fun of myself for bashing WoW since I played it. I realized long ago that the game was horrible months before BC was released. I stopped playing as much and kept my sub up because some of my guildies were still playing.
I also stopped PvEing for the most part and just PvP'd. I would camp people, gank, and do arenas.
The PvP in WoW is decent...but could be improved.
Yes it will be on Battle.net....a new version. Go back and watch the video. When someone asks "Will there be a monthly fee?" The dev responds "Right now we aren't sure whether we will or will not have a subscription for D3"
Instead of using the same gritty style and bump maping found in D2 in the Art Design, it is as though Blizzard exported the skins and models from WC3/WoW and put them in D3.
It simply doesn't fit.
The color and lighting is fine...cept maybe the blue/green fog in dungeons. D2 had plenty of light and color. But D2 also had texture, bump maping, and realistic Art Design. D3 is lacking it all and looks cartoony.
So all you haters can stop bitching about us not like the color or lighting because that's not the issue.:thumbsup:
I don't mind the art design or graphics. It fits the WoW model. What I hate about WoW is the linear game play and the monotony behind it.
I'm sad to see that Blizzard has taken the Art Design of WoW and the texture for skins and models and have placed them in D3.
What will you do if you have to pay a fee for D3? You know that they are considering this...
Oh my god your reading comprehension is TERRIBLE! I'm done talking to you until you learn how to read and comprehend the words in front of your beady little eyes, you pathetic putz.
You know where assuming gets you? No where...because assumptions are based off of no knowledge and are usually wrong.
You should keep those banana lips shut and not shoot prematurely from your cockholster.
I played WoW from release and up until a couple months ago. I played both horde and alliance. I have seen all the end game content. I have seen most of the bosses in Sunwell. I have killed Illidain. I've basically done it all.
There is no replay value in WoW because there is no sense of accomplishment. They pigeon hold you to factions and then destroy world PvP with bgs which are northing more than amusement rides for carebears and casual PvPers to enjoy.
WoW is linear, with a hold your hands quest system. It's a great game for people new to MMOs, or for people with little time to play and who want to reach end game quick and fast.
Real MMOs take effort and time. Quests mean something and you feel a sense of accomplishment. They do not hold your hand throughout every level.
Now go find a dark corner and fuck off already.
The game is much more fun when PvP is FFA, there is custom loot, and you can fly in Azeroth.
I agree 100%. It's not so much the colors or the lighting, because D2 had both color and lighting...but it's the shading and texturing of the skins and models. They are too smooth and cartoon like.:thumbsup: And the armor...jesus...the armor went from a Gothic style to WoW-like. That's a bad move, IMO.
Your immature post is pathetic.:thumbsup:
*bangs head on desk*
Why would the game change in appearance? What makes you think that in another part of Act 1 that they will suddenly add bump mapping, change the whole Art Design, give every model new skins, and tone down the color pallet?
That would basically be a whole new game...and it's not possible to have bump mapping in one part of a game and then have it in another. It is also impossible to change skins/models from one part of the map to another.
You simply just aren't thinking logically. :thumbsup: