Its real amusing to see what people keep responding with. this thread isn't about music but was brought up at one point and now its EVERYWHERE best part is i don't even think you understand your arguing with yourself while im on my phone bored at work :-) :-) :-) :-)
All I got from this is you aren't to be taken seriously cause you're not even paying attention. Thanks for the heads up.
Siaynoq, Nokturnal might be talking about something slightly off-topic from the original conversation, but now you're just being a douche bag. No need to bash him like that, I took you as someone better than that. This thread should probably be closed before we bust out the pitch forks.
I'm not sorry at all for what I said. The guy was assuming just as much about everyone else by accusing us of stealing other people's work just cause we're not immediately coming out against piracy but instead having an open discussion about it. And he even said it twice. So as far as I'm concerned he bashed me just as much. I saw him that and raised him one.
Siaynoq, Nokturnal might be talking about something slightly off-topic from the original conversation, but now you're just being a douche bag. No need to bash him like that, I took you as someone better than that. This thread should probably be closed before we bust out the pitch forks.
I'm not sorry at all for what I said. The guy was assuming just as much about everyone else by accusing us of stealing other people's work just cause we're not immediately coming out against piracy but instead having an open discussion about it. And he even said it twice. So as far as I'm concerned he bashed me just as much. I saw him that and raised him one.
Oh so you're one of those "Well since he did it, that gives me justification to do it back" sorta guys hmm? Interesting...
Antagonizing your customer base is NEVER a smart business move.
I don't think their goal was to piss off gamers... they just want to protect their profits just like any business. However, look at Netflix, they changed their pricing and how they price streaming vs DVD shipments, and so many people got upset about it, that they changed back some of their service agreements... maybe Playstation will be hated so much between now and in 2 years when their new system is released that they might re-work what they are planning, into something more accommodating for people who are getting offended by this new stance.
AND all i got from this is that you're a forum whore living with mom more worried about your comments and quotes than getting a career. see how easy it is to play this game
Is Microsoft willing to give up their paid Xbox live for this? It would require them to make sure you have internet on your console at all times. This is not that much of an issue on PC games as the people that are interested in the games usually have internet, and it's getting harder to imagine pure offline gaming on PC. On console it is still very much offline.
You actually don't have to pay to be online with Xbox. Only you pay if you want to play multiplayer. Like there is a silver and gold account option. But still, it's just a really bad idea.
I resent it even with D3. I have no intention of pirating D3 and I still insist on being able to play offline. It's atrocious otherwise.
(Finally) On topic: this whole thing is clearly a move by the major companies to cash-in on second-hand game sales, motivated by the incredibly stupid notion that every person that buys a 2nd hand game will, invariably, buy it new if they are unable to get it 2nd hand.
Never thought of that. But I hope that if this is true, that it bites them in the ass. One thing I hate worse than complete idiots are the greedy ones.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I don't always burn. But when I do, I use hellfire.
Seems to me pretty much all has been covered here.
I think the used car analogy has already been mentioned as well and which I think sums up the situation very nicely. The lobbying within the entertainment industry have stepped up their game these last years.
However most of their so-called 'protective measures' seem to be motivated by extreme short-sightedness and greed.
They are completely overlooking the free advertising they are getting through 'easy/discounted availability' of their products.
I think it is difficult to argue against this case all the same, because while an estimate of lost sales through the 2nd hand games retail business can be easily(?) made, the same cannot be done of the advertisement value benefited by company/team behind the game.
That's why I like referring to games that are currently being funded by fans. This is a testament to the real nature of what they mean to us.
It's not a you-entertain-me-I-give-you-money one. It's a connection the creator of the game tries to form with the players. A story they wanted to share with you. An adventure they wanted you to take part in. Games, music, paintings are all forms of art and creativity that seeks to form that bond between the creator and the experimenter/viewer/consumer.
This is how one becomes a fan. Why one likes talking about their favorite games/music and why they in turn want to share it with the rest of the world. And what makes them want to spend money on the product(or future ones).
And there are also so many genres that would have remained unknown if it wasn't for that easy access to it for many individuals. Especially ones which don't have that immediate draw and can only be fully appreciated through actually experimenting it.
With all that said, there are two components to the entertainment industry- the financial/publisher part and the creative(artists/game developers) one.
These measures are seeing the day because the financial department has become so disjointed from the product-creation and public relation aspect, that decisions are being made to maximize profits without a complete understanding of the process.
Even then though, commercial success is understandably among one of the objectives for companies. I just don't think they are going the right way about it.
AND all i got from this is that you're a forum whore living with mom more worried about your comments and quotes than getting a career. see how easy it is to play this game
What the hell's your problem? 100% of your interventions in this thread have either been pure trolling or 'simply' off-topic. You were the only one to mention piracy; you were the one accusing people who posted of being thieves; and for all I know the only music you play is on Guitar Hero....but I don't even care! So either contribute or piss off.
(Finally) On topic: this whole thing is clearly a move by the major companies to cash-in on second-hand game sales, motivated by the incredibly stupid notion that every person that buys a 2nd hand game will, invariably, buy it new if they are unable to get it 2nd hand.
Maka you're right. Thank you so much for pointing that out to me. I am so sorry. Yes all I do is sit at home, unemployed, at my moms house, playing guitar hero. I only slander other people on here because in reality im just a failure and I don't know what to do!!!!
I'll start with some contribution: If I go to the store and buy a game. Its going to be mine for life. Yes. For example, I still own Poke'mon Snap for N64 and won't sell it. BECAUSE! When I make the decision, "I want to get this game" I have made sure I will work, pay, and collect for it. I don't own very many games because I am not that douche bag that buys everything he see's just cause its a game. I work hard and rationalize for every investment I put into anything to make sure its something I want. There are a lot of pieces to the puzzle I put together before finally saying, "Yes this is for me."
If people get something and want the way I do, there wouldn't be this need of "god dammit I made a mistake, ILL JUST SELL IT BAK ROFL!" to or because they get bored of it or whatever. Stop being so impulsive with your cash. How can I break this down to nerds?
In Diablo2 you have to be very particular in how you distribute your skill points correct? If you weren't you PAID for it
Yes all I do is sit at home, unemployed, at my moms house, playing guitar hero. I only slander other people on here because in reality im just a failure and I don't know what to do!!!!
Honestly, it's okay if you live with your mom. No one's going to judge you.
If I go to the store and buy a game. Its going to be mine for life. Yes. For example, I still own Poke'mon Snap for N64 and won't sell it. BECAUSE! When I make the decision, "I want to get this game" I have made sure I will work, pay, and collect for it. I don't own very many games because I am not that douche bag that buys everything he see's just cause its a game.
Why is it one extreme or the other? Why must you either get all vested and research all your purchases and plan to own it for life OR be a douchebag and impulsively buy everything just because it's new? Where is the middle ground with you?
I work hard and rationalize for every investment I put into anything to make sure its something I want. There are a lot of pieces to the puzzle I put together before finally saying, "Yes this is for me."
Because you feel this way, isn't that more reason to support being able to buy or borrow used games for console? You're describing not being impulsive and putting thought into your purchases. The way others may not be impulsive is to not buy a new game as soon as it comes out but one day settle for a used copy. And this is bad according to you, yes? I mean, once a game is paid for, the producer has been compensated for that single copy. So as long as there isn't a copy of that copy being made, how is the producer being cheated? If someone buys a used game, they're not getting it new. That's the catch. But the new version of that copy was once paid for and thus the developer of that copy was compensated for it.
If people get something and want the way I do, there wouldn't be this need of "god dammit I made a mistake
Yes, we must all treasure our games as investments. Cause there's no way in hell someone would ever buy Poke'mon Snap on an impulse. Such a lofty purchase requires serious research and soul searching. Because that's what consumerism is always about. Not ever being impulsive, but thinking very very carefully about every single thing you buy because you're gonna own it for life, or at least, you BETTER own it for life!
ILL JUST SELL IT BAK ROFL!" to or because they get bored of it or whatever. Stop being so impulsive with your cash.
How can I break this down to nerds?
Well to start you can stop equating anyone considering selling a game they own as complete foaming at the mouth retards. For one thing I suspect you're overestimating how many people try to sell games. For many it's not even worth it trying to sell or exchange. If you sell it online, you gotta post the ad, be ready to ship it, and be ready to lower your price since there's always a bunch of other people selling the exact same thing anyway. I think most people are willing to live with their purchases even if they didn't research them as extensively as you claim to do. And all that aside, none of it matters because the developer has already been compensated for their content when they sold it new.
Gotta wonder if Nintendo could be the big equalizer here. I could see microsoft and sony getting greedy and run out of town by good ol nintendo.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I want to say something but I'll keep it to myself I guess and leave this useless post behind to make you aware that there WAS something... "
-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged
(Finally) On topic: this whole thing is clearly a move by the major companies to cash-in on second-hand game sales, motivated by the incredibly stupid notion that every person that buys a 2nd hand game will, invariably, buy it new if they are unable to get it 2nd hand.
Never thought of that. But I hope that if this is true, that it bites them in the ass. One thing I hate worse than complete idiots are the greedy ones.
I really think it will bite them in the ass. There are MANY, many games, I'd wager 95% or more of them that are put out, that I will never pay $60 for. Now if somebody is selling their copy for cheap, sure I might try it out if it slightly interests me. But because I bought a used copy, that doesn't mean I'm cheating the developers. The person I bought it from already paid full price, and since he will no longer be with a copy then it doesn't matter at all.
Again I'll bring up used cars. All you people yelling that buying second hand is screwing people out of money, do you buy used cars? Did you parents give you a car? *Gasp!* You didn't pay for that car! You're screwing that company out of money! Same goes for everything else, like used books, used movies, old CD's. If I was the owner of a car / band / video game developer / book, I'd be happy people are buying it second hand. I already got paid for the initial item, and even though I don't make money off of the re-sale, it means more people are buying / reading / listening / playing my stuff. That could even lead to that person loving whatever they get, and buying their next purchase brand new.
I just really, really don't understand this argument that we shouldn't be allowed to buy used stuff, in this case specifically games.
I think most of what need to be said has been said but as a person involved in the development of software I can tell you first hand many companies just don't understand second hand sales or pirated copies of their software. I've seen it time and time again. Please remember that many companies (especially large ones) are run by business type people and not (as i'll put it here) "computer people" (this is how i was referred to once when trying to make a point about software piracy to a CFO).
The simple fact is many of these decisions are about their bottom line (which is fine). They see a segment of the market that they wish to get in on and increase their profits. Now lets take an extreme example, if they get 5 % of the used/pirated copies to buy new thats a 5% increase in sales (assuming no loss from people disagreeing with their tactics). Now also lets take into account that while video games have a high used/pirate rate they are but a drop in the bucket for software or items in general (books is my favourite example here). Some software has a 99%+ piracy rate. This just happens and is a cost of doing business. And as i mentioned above it also has to do with an understanding that not everyone who will buy used or pirate will buy the game at full price.
The problem is when it becomes illegal to sell used. Thats just crazy. Some would like it that way. If you disagree with it, honestly, talk to your representatives in office and make your case. Many stores would like to say that you cannot return games, well when those policies infringe on your rights as consumers guess which one has actual priority.
Guess what, there are a lot of gamers out there. Online petitions and forum talk is great but if you don't like the path the RIAA and other groups are trying to head it down, get involved. There are quite a few of us who are against them and if enough of us get involved things change. I saw the results of the backlash against many of the new laws in the US. It made politicians think (and not all of them are evil and two faced). The key point is talking their language and showing them that these types of practices and paths will be fought.
Oh and as a last point I buy most of my games new (over 95%) and the ones I got used were console games that were not on the shelf any longer. It would be great if we could get all the old games we want new but sometimes thats just not the case (hell making sure they work,*cough nes flashing screen cough*, is hard enough).
The most important thing i can say out of all this is get the real facts. Don't believe mine or anyone elses. Go read the reports, go look at the data and try to come to a decision that is based on data and then act on it. Cause we all know that 99% of all facts said on the internet are made up and the amount of garbage information or prose is insane.
K
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I'm not sorry at all for what I said. The guy was assuming just as much about everyone else by accusing us of stealing other people's work just cause we're not immediately coming out against piracy but instead having an open discussion about it. And he even said it twice. So as far as I'm concerned he bashed me just as much. I saw him that and raised him one.
Siaynoq's Playthroughs
Oh so you're one of those "Well since he did it, that gives me justification to do it back" sorta guys hmm? Interesting...
I don't think their goal was to piss off gamers... they just want to protect their profits just like any business. However, look at Netflix, they changed their pricing and how they price streaming vs DVD shipments, and so many people got upset about it, that they changed back some of their service agreements... maybe Playstation will be hated so much between now and in 2 years when their new system is released that they might re-work what they are planning, into something more accommodating for people who are getting offended by this new stance.
-Temp
Siaynoq's Playthroughs
-Temp
I resent it even with D3. I have no intention of pirating D3 and I still insist on being able to play offline. It's atrocious otherwise.
Siaynoq's Playthroughs
I think the used car analogy has already been mentioned as well and which I think sums up the situation very nicely. The lobbying within the entertainment industry have stepped up their game these last years.
However most of their so-called 'protective measures' seem to be motivated by extreme short-sightedness and greed.
They are completely overlooking the free advertising they are getting through 'easy/discounted availability' of their products.
I think it is difficult to argue against this case all the same, because while an estimate of lost sales through the 2nd hand games retail business can be easily(?) made, the same cannot be done of the advertisement value benefited by company/team behind the game.
That's why I like referring to games that are currently being funded by fans. This is a testament to the real nature of what they mean to us.
It's not a you-entertain-me-I-give-you-money one. It's a connection the creator of the game tries to form with the players. A story they wanted to share with you. An adventure they wanted you to take part in. Games, music, paintings are all forms of art and creativity that seeks to form that bond between the creator and the experimenter/viewer/consumer.
This is how one becomes a fan. Why one likes talking about their favorite games/music and why they in turn want to share it with the rest of the world. And what makes them want to spend money on the product(or future ones).
And there are also so many genres that would have remained unknown if it wasn't for that easy access to it for many individuals. Especially ones which don't have that immediate draw and can only be fully appreciated through actually experimenting it.
With all that said, there are two components to the entertainment industry- the financial/publisher part and the creative(artists/game developers) one.
These measures are seeing the day because the financial department has become so disjointed from the product-creation and public relation aspect, that decisions are being made to maximize profits without a complete understanding of the process.
Even then though, commercial success is understandably among one of the objectives for companies. I just don't think they are going the right way about it.
Maka you're right. Thank you so much for pointing that out to me. I am so sorry. Yes all I do is sit at home, unemployed, at my moms house, playing guitar hero. I only slander other people on here because in reality im just a failure and I don't know what to do!!!!
I'll start with some contribution: If I go to the store and buy a game. Its going to be mine for life. Yes. For example, I still own Poke'mon Snap for N64 and won't sell it. BECAUSE! When I make the decision, "I want to get this game" I have made sure I will work, pay, and collect for it. I don't own very many games because I am not that douche bag that buys everything he see's just cause its a game. I work hard and rationalize for every investment I put into anything to make sure its something I want. There are a lot of pieces to the puzzle I put together before finally saying, "Yes this is for me."
If people get something and want the way I do, there wouldn't be this need of "god dammit I made a mistake, ILL JUST SELL IT BAK ROFL!" to or because they get bored of it or whatever. Stop being so impulsive with your cash. How can I break this down to nerds?
In Diablo2 you have to be very particular in how you distribute your skill points correct? If you weren't you PAID for it
Why is it one extreme or the other? Why must you either get all vested and research all your purchases and plan to own it for life OR be a douchebag and impulsively buy everything just because it's new? Where is the middle ground with you?
Because you feel this way, isn't that more reason to support being able to buy or borrow used games for console? You're describing not being impulsive and putting thought into your purchases. The way others may not be impulsive is to not buy a new game as soon as it comes out but one day settle for a used copy. And this is bad according to you, yes? I mean, once a game is paid for, the producer has been compensated for that single copy. So as long as there isn't a copy of that copy being made, how is the producer being cheated? If someone buys a used game, they're not getting it new. That's the catch. But the new version of that copy was once paid for and thus the developer of that copy was compensated for it.
Yes, we must all treasure our games as investments. Cause there's no way in hell someone would ever buy Poke'mon Snap on an impulse. Such a lofty purchase requires serious research and soul searching. Because that's what consumerism is always about. Not ever being impulsive, but thinking very very carefully about every single thing you buy because you're gonna own it for life, or at least, you BETTER own it for life!
Well to start you can stop equating anyone considering selling a game they own as complete foaming at the mouth retards. For one thing I suspect you're overestimating how many people try to sell games. For many it's not even worth it trying to sell or exchange. If you sell it online, you gotta post the ad, be ready to ship it, and be ready to lower your price since there's always a bunch of other people selling the exact same thing anyway. I think most people are willing to live with their purchases even if they didn't research them as extensively as you claim to do. And all that aside, none of it matters because the developer has already been compensated for their content when they sold it new.
Well not anymore, with the whole respeccing feature.
Siaynoq's Playthroughs
-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged
You know how much money Nintendo could make if they allowed me to buy Zelda ALTTP off of steam?! I'd buy all those games!
I really think it will bite them in the ass. There are MANY, many games, I'd wager 95% or more of them that are put out, that I will never pay $60 for. Now if somebody is selling their copy for cheap, sure I might try it out if it slightly interests me. But because I bought a used copy, that doesn't mean I'm cheating the developers. The person I bought it from already paid full price, and since he will no longer be with a copy then it doesn't matter at all.
Again I'll bring up used cars. All you people yelling that buying second hand is screwing people out of money, do you buy used cars? Did you parents give you a car? *Gasp!* You didn't pay for that car! You're screwing that company out of money! Same goes for everything else, like used books, used movies, old CD's. If I was the owner of a car / band / video game developer / book, I'd be happy people are buying it second hand. I already got paid for the initial item, and even though I don't make money off of the re-sale, it means more people are buying / reading / listening / playing my stuff. That could even lead to that person loving whatever they get, and buying their next purchase brand new.
I just really, really don't understand this argument that we shouldn't be allowed to buy used stuff, in this case specifically games.
The simple fact is many of these decisions are about their bottom line (which is fine). They see a segment of the market that they wish to get in on and increase their profits. Now lets take an extreme example, if they get 5 % of the used/pirated copies to buy new thats a 5% increase in sales (assuming no loss from people disagreeing with their tactics). Now also lets take into account that while video games have a high used/pirate rate they are but a drop in the bucket for software or items in general (books is my favourite example here). Some software has a 99%+ piracy rate. This just happens and is a cost of doing business. And as i mentioned above it also has to do with an understanding that not everyone who will buy used or pirate will buy the game at full price.
The problem is when it becomes illegal to sell used. Thats just crazy. Some would like it that way. If you disagree with it, honestly, talk to your representatives in office and make your case. Many stores would like to say that you cannot return games, well when those policies infringe on your rights as consumers guess which one has actual priority.
Guess what, there are a lot of gamers out there. Online petitions and forum talk is great but if you don't like the path the RIAA and other groups are trying to head it down, get involved. There are quite a few of us who are against them and if enough of us get involved things change. I saw the results of the backlash against many of the new laws in the US. It made politicians think (and not all of them are evil and two faced). The key point is talking their language and showing them that these types of practices and paths will be fought.
Oh and as a last point I buy most of my games new (over 95%) and the ones I got used were console games that were not on the shelf any longer. It would be great if we could get all the old games we want new but sometimes thats just not the case (hell making sure they work,*cough nes flashing screen cough*, is hard enough).
The most important thing i can say out of all this is get the real facts. Don't believe mine or anyone elses. Go read the reports, go look at the data and try to come to a decision that is based on data and then act on it. Cause we all know that 99% of all facts said on the internet are made up and the amount of garbage information or prose is insane.
K