That analogy was kinda weird indeed. But maybe they're just afraid of not delivering something of great quality after all the negative feedback on the game's release state?
Imagine yourself as a developer, having all that responsability of keeping one of the biggest IPs of gaming not only alive, but modern, innovative and pleasing as many people as possible.
Developing the software and imagining what's going to happen is one thing. Then things happen completely different from what you and the entire dev team expected?
And don't come with the whole "but it's obvious". Games like Torchlight 2 and Borderlands 2 did everything as the fans wanted, and as perfect as possible (they even have offline lan modes), got insanely praised by the critics and gamers alike, and how many people do you see playing those?
They could at least give players a better pvp. I mean, what is brawling? Its the effort that matters to me. And brawling is zero effort on their part. We can't even pick teams and nothing was done to tweak anything in pvp what so ever.
You played TDM didn't you? I've seen the videos it looked like so much fun.
Why can't they just say what is going to happen and what their plan is. Its seems like they just want to talk about things and not commit to anything and have an excuse tied to everything that didn't happen yet.
At this point, i won't be suprised if the itemization patch they have been talking about gets dragged on til the expanison pack is announced. Then it gets scarped and we are told that it would just complicate the current D3 game, so we added it to the xpak instead.
I used to think Valve was slow and lazy,... Meanwhile, the servers have been down for over 12 hours for 'maintenance'. What are they maintaining?
I dunno, i think paragon as is, is just pointless right now, you don't progress anything meaningful in comparison with d2's level 99. Till you hit 99 in d2 every level counted towards progression. Once you hit level 60 in d3 tho, you stop progressing. What? You think tiny chunks of gf/mf + some stupid portrait change every now and then and stats you *gasp* "TOTALLY" need! is meaningful progression? *sigh* Paragon is just to trick fools they do something meaningful. Why exactly do you even bother with it? lol
Here we hit another golden nerve... it lacks skill involvement! YOU NEED TO HAVE SOMETHING AWESOME TO HAPPEN TO YOUR SKILLS THE MORE YOU PROGRESS YOUR PARAGON! *hint hint*
Ya, skill trees made leveling worth something. Still tho, its better than nothing, which seems to be how things have been going for D3.. From lvling to pvp, better than nothing.
They said skill trees and stats where illusions then why do i constantly feel like the D3 devs are playing magic tricks with me. Waving a hand across my face and telling me "This is great" does not make someone a Jedi.
All this skill tree talk is turning in circles. What is it?
-The fact that skill trees have dependencies and therefore limit your choices?
-The fact that the initial skill tree didn't let you respec?
-The fact that leveling gave you more options in the skill tree and you weren't done after 2 hours as in D3 right now?
I think the first point is bogus, and the second point is an elitist argument (sorry). The third point though is perfectly valid, at 60 the only thing you have is progressing gear (which gets ridiculed by the AH) and paragon (which is annoying and not as rewarding as leveling skills in D2).
The itemization overhaul is gonna fix the first thing, hopefully, by decreasing the impact of the AH and make grinding for gear worthwhile again.
As for the second thing, the idea maka mentioned in a different thread earlier today was great, going back to D1 (screw D2 for once please) - my monk's ability to kill demons just exploded after I finally found the "Book of Apocalypse" a few months into the game. Like I said in that thread, give us "rune quests" or some sort of leveling progress that unlocks new skill features. But it's a difficult matter as Blizzard made it crystal clear with their paragon design that there should be no time-consuming, mandatory, boring grind to achieve a basic game mechanics. I know you hate casuals, but D3 (just as all Diablo games) was always about being accessible for everyone, it was never "for the pro gamers only".
All this skill tree talk is turning in circles. What is it?
-The fact that skill trees have dependencies and therefore limit your choices?
-The fact that the initial skill tree didn't let you respec?
-The fact that leveling gave you more options in the skill tree and you weren't done after 2 hours as in D3 right now?
I think the first point is bogus, and the second point is an elitist argument (sorry). The third point though is perfectly valid, at 60 the only thing you have is progressing gear (which gets ridiculed by the AH) and paragon (which is annoying and not as rewarding as leveling skills in D2).
Except its cause and effect. You remove skill trees you end up with the latter. Its not elitist. In D2 you had to commit to a certain build, in D3 its the exact opposite.
The best part about D2 was making new characters. In D3, once you get to 60 your new 'charatcer' is just a quick skill swap and AH purchase away. Sure its fun to be able to swap skills in seconds, but its not good for replay value and game life. Which is why Blizzard keeps trying to figure out was to give the illusion of progression instead of staying with what worked so well in D2.
Enforcing replayability by making you discard a character every time you "misclick" on a wrong skill is not a good game design concept at all. There's a reason why D2 allowed respecs later on, and even PoE and TL2 have some sort of respec.
Besides, it's not about "mains and alts". There are plenty of players on these forums with 5 classes on about the same paragon level, they have no mains, they just play several classes. If you're arguing for a "no respec policy", these people would need to have about ~15 characters they'd play in parallel.
Or just take it back to the RPG aspect. What does that look like... Game: "Your character just learned a new ability, he can now shoot electrified arrows." Player: "Cool, let's try this out! - Oh crap, this is worse than my previous main attack. I'm gonna jump off this cliff, kill this character, and create a new hero."
I dunno, i think paragon as is, is just pointless right now, you don't progress anything meaningful in comparison with d2's level 99. Till you hit 99 in d2 every level counted towards progression. Once you hit level 60 in d3 tho, you stop progressing. What? You think tiny chunks of gf/mf + some stupid portrait change every now and then and stats you *gasp* "TOTALLY NEED!" is meaningful progression? *sigh* Paragon right now is just to trick fools they do something meaningful. Why exactly do you even bother with it? lol
Here we hit another golden nerve... it lacks skill involvement! YOU NEED TO HAVE SOMETHING AWESOME TO HAPPEN TO YOUR SKILLS THE MORE YOU PROGRESS YOUR PARAGON! *hint hint* IF IT INVOLVES CHOICE = ALL THE BETTER, MORE BUILD VARIETY!
Am getting somewhere, eh? Hehehe! Food for thought here.
Well only gf/mf and stupid portrait , we arent playing the same game then... in my diablo 100 para level also gives me 300 strenght... just saying so there is progression in your character power and survivability...
Enforcing replayability by making you discard a character every time you "misclick" on a wrong skill is not a good game design concept at all. There's a reason why D2 allowed respecs later on, and even PoE and TL2 have some sort of respec.
Besides, it's not about "mains and alts". There are plenty of players on these forums with 5 classes on about the same paragon level, they have no mains, they just play several classes. If you're arguing for a "no respec policy", these people would need to have about ~15 characters they'd play in parallel.
Or just take it back to the RPG aspect. What does that look like... Game: "Your character just learned a new ability, he can now shoot electrified arrows." Player: "Cool, let's try this out! - Oh crap, this is worse than my previous main attack. I'm gonna jump off this cliff, kill this character, and create a new hero."
Buy level 30 you could try out any skill you want by simply equiping any item with said skill.
And seriously, who cares about miss clicking? Thats a cop out, pay attention is the solution, even an 'ACCEPT BUTTON" would fix this.. Miss clicking can get you killed in HC,, should that mode be removed?
This is not forcing replayability, its about truth. D3 is that proof of what happens when you remove builds and permanent choice. You get this. Instant gratification with no depth all tied to items only. You can't have both.
Well, sadly another flaw in the game is the lacking of sense of permanency. They can fix that if they showed some balls but they might piss of an entire legion of hardcore casuals in the process.
But that would bring back alot of players.... Maybe they could have a different game mode..lol
Paragon can be a great tool of customization (mainly skill wise) if done right, it will bring a whole new everything in the game. Combined with some permanency in the process and you fixed build variety... probably never gonna happen tho.
OMG... Permanency is like Necromancy. Its forbiden.
Am I the only one that sees itemization and abilities as two separate issues that just happen to share the same problem? ...They aren't interesting choices.
For example, DH really only have 2 weapons that are worth using. I think that allowing you to enchant/stat swapping your items to make it more customized (and making it soulbound) could really help the itemization issue.
Enchanting
I have a boots and I have collected a recipe to enchant any set of boots with a spell that reduces my discipline cost for vault. As a heavy vault user, I spend the 100 DE to enchant the item to make me slightly more powerful in the way I want. I can enchant over it later with another spell for another 100 DE if I change my playstyle.
Stat Swap
I have a Mempo that rolled +205 healt regen. I use 100 DE to swap the stat to crit; however, since 205/342 = 60% of a perfect roll for that stat, then my crit roll can only be 60% of max roll. This would swap the 205 health regen for 3.6 crit.
Main stats would roll at half value. For example, I have a piece that has 100 dex, 100 str, and 100 vit. I'm a barb, so I don't really care too much about the dex, so I spend 100 DE to roll that stat into my vit. It's 100/200 for the initial stat roll (50%) but it gets discounted by another 50% due to being a main stat. After swapping, my stats look like this: 100 str, 125 vit.
In regards to skills, they need to revamp them so they interact in different ways with each other. A couple examples:
1. I'm a barbarian that uses Earthquake and Revenge. Everytime that I use revenge, it extends the duration of earthquake by 1 second and lowers the cooldown by 10 seconds.
2. I'm a DH that uses sentry and rapid fire. When ever I am within 10 yards of one of my sentries and I use rapid fire, then my sentry starts to use rapid fire too.
3. I'm a wizard. I shoot an energy twister through my blizzard to have it collect ice shards to deal additional damage with a chance to freeze on hit.
Finding those skill combinations that work well together and fit your playstyle would make the game much more interesting.
not that it is a "fix" but people seem to be forgetting about hardcore. Plenty of opportunity to make new characters and the economy is in better shape. Granted you can't try very many "different" builds as you level. This has really picked up my interest in D3 again... even if Blizzard like to lag death you every so often.
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Playing Diablo since 97. I know nothing and having nothing good to say, I be a troll.
That would be really interesting, but Blizzard would label it as "too complex"
:D. I can help but think of their reasons at to why we can't have a weapon swap.
I think it was along the lines of " People thought they lost their weapon".
Im not sure if this is because they think its too complex or they think we are all stupid newbies who can't figure out a simple button function.
I hope blizzard doesn't start making clothes.. They would just sell onezee's and tell us shirts, pants and socs are just too complex with to many choices. Its just not fun....
In regards to skills, they need to revamp them so they interact in different ways with each other. A couple examples:
1. I'm a barbarian that uses Earthquake and Revenge. Everytime that I use revenge, it extends the duration of earthquake by 1 second and lowers the cooldown by 10 seconds.
2. I'm a DH that uses sentry and rapid fire. When ever I am within 10 yards of one of my sentries and I use rapid fire, then my sentry starts to use rapid fire too.
3. I'm a wizard. I shoot an energy twister through my blizzard to have it collect ice shards to deal additional damage with a chance to freeze on hit.
Finding those skill combinations that work well together and fit your playstyle would make the game much more interesting.
That would be really interesting, but Blizzard would label it as "too complex"
Which part is too complex? I could see the stat swapping piece be considered complex, especially since all players do not know what a perfect roll provides. Maybe if it was simplified to be 1/2 or 1/4 of the stat.
Also, I think the ability pairing feature could work. Players could choose to use it or just run with their abilities as they use them now. The pairing would just reward players that are willing to spend the time on designing new builds based upon pairings.
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They could at least give players a better pvp. I mean, what is brawling? Its the effort that matters to me. And brawling is zero effort on their part. We can't even pick teams and nothing was done to tweak anything in pvp what so ever.
You played TDM didn't you? I've seen the videos it looked like so much fun.
Why can't they just say what is going to happen and what their plan is. Its seems like they just want to talk about things and not commit to anything and have an excuse tied to everything that didn't happen yet.
At this point, i won't be suprised if the itemization patch they have been talking about gets dragged on til the expanison pack is announced. Then it gets scarped and we are told that it would just complicate the current D3 game, so we added it to the xpak instead.
I used to think Valve was slow and lazy,... Meanwhile, the servers have been down for over 12 hours for 'maintenance'. What are they maintaining?
Ya, skill trees made leveling worth something. Still tho, its better than nothing, which seems to be how things have been going for D3.. From lvling to pvp, better than nothing.
They said skill trees and stats where illusions then why do i constantly feel like the D3 devs are playing magic tricks with me. Waving a hand across my face and telling me "This is great" does not make someone a Jedi.
-The fact that skill trees have dependencies and therefore limit your choices?
-The fact that the initial skill tree didn't let you respec?
-The fact that leveling gave you more options in the skill tree and you weren't done after 2 hours as in D3 right now?
I think the first point is bogus, and the second point is an elitist argument (sorry). The third point though is perfectly valid, at 60 the only thing you have is progressing gear (which gets ridiculed by the AH) and paragon (which is annoying and not as rewarding as leveling skills in D2).
The itemization overhaul is gonna fix the first thing, hopefully, by decreasing the impact of the AH and make grinding for gear worthwhile again.
As for the second thing, the idea maka mentioned in a different thread earlier today was great, going back to D1 (screw D2 for once please) - my monk's ability to kill demons just exploded after I finally found the "Book of Apocalypse" a few months into the game. Like I said in that thread, give us "rune quests" or some sort of leveling progress that unlocks new skill features. But it's a difficult matter as Blizzard made it crystal clear with their paragon design that there should be no time-consuming, mandatory, boring grind to achieve a basic game mechanics. I know you hate casuals, but D3 (just as all Diablo games) was always about being accessible for everyone, it was never "for the pro gamers only".
Except its cause and effect. You remove skill trees you end up with the latter. Its not elitist. In D2 you had to commit to a certain build, in D3 its the exact opposite.
The best part about D2 was making new characters. In D3, once you get to 60 your new 'charatcer' is just a quick skill swap and AH purchase away. Sure its fun to be able to swap skills in seconds, but its not good for replay value and game life. Which is why Blizzard keeps trying to figure out was to give the illusion of progression instead of staying with what worked so well in D2.
D3 is all about Mains and Alts...
Besides, it's not about "mains and alts". There are plenty of players on these forums with 5 classes on about the same paragon level, they have no mains, they just play several classes. If you're arguing for a "no respec policy", these people would need to have about ~15 characters they'd play in parallel.
Or just take it back to the RPG aspect. What does that look like... Game: "Your character just learned a new ability, he can now shoot electrified arrows." Player: "Cool, let's try this out! - Oh crap, this is worse than my previous main attack. I'm gonna jump off this cliff, kill this character, and create a new hero."
Well only gf/mf and stupid portrait , we arent playing the same game then... in my diablo 100 para level also gives me 300 strenght... just saying so there is progression in your character power and survivability...
Buy level 30 you could try out any skill you want by simply equiping any item with said skill.
And seriously, who cares about miss clicking? Thats a cop out, pay attention is the solution, even an 'ACCEPT BUTTON" would fix this.. Miss clicking can get you killed in HC,, should that mode be removed?
This is not forcing replayability, its about truth. D3 is that proof of what happens when you remove builds and permanent choice. You get this. Instant gratification with no depth all tied to items only. You can't have both.
But that would bring back alot of players.... Maybe they could have a different game mode..lol
OMG... Permanency is like Necromancy. Its forbiden.
For example, DH really only have 2 weapons that are worth using. I think that allowing you to enchant/stat swapping your items to make it more customized (and making it soulbound) could really help the itemization issue.
Enchanting
I have a boots and I have collected a recipe to enchant any set of boots with a spell that reduces my discipline cost for vault. As a heavy vault user, I spend the 100 DE to enchant the item to make me slightly more powerful in the way I want. I can enchant over it later with another spell for another 100 DE if I change my playstyle.
Stat Swap
I have a Mempo that rolled +205 healt regen. I use 100 DE to swap the stat to crit; however, since 205/342 = 60% of a perfect roll for that stat, then my crit roll can only be 60% of max roll. This would swap the 205 health regen for 3.6 crit.
Main stats would roll at half value. For example, I have a piece that has 100 dex, 100 str, and 100 vit. I'm a barb, so I don't really care too much about the dex, so I spend 100 DE to roll that stat into my vit. It's 100/200 for the initial stat roll (50%) but it gets discounted by another 50% due to being a main stat. After swapping, my stats look like this: 100 str, 125 vit.
In regards to skills, they need to revamp them so they interact in different ways with each other. A couple examples:
1. I'm a barbarian that uses Earthquake and Revenge. Everytime that I use revenge, it extends the duration of earthquake by 1 second and lowers the cooldown by 10 seconds.
2. I'm a DH that uses sentry and rapid fire. When ever I am within 10 yards of one of my sentries and I use rapid fire, then my sentry starts to use rapid fire too.
3. I'm a wizard. I shoot an energy twister through my blizzard to have it collect ice shards to deal additional damage with a chance to freeze on hit.
Finding those skill combinations that work well together and fit your playstyle would make the game much more interesting.
:D. I can help but think of their reasons at to why we can't have a weapon swap.
I think it was along the lines of " People thought they lost their weapon".
Im not sure if this is because they think its too complex or they think we are all stupid newbies who can't figure out a simple button function.
I hope blizzard doesn't start making clothes.. They would just sell onezee's and tell us shirts, pants and socs are just too complex with to many choices. Its just not fun....
Which part is too complex? I could see the stat swapping piece be considered complex, especially since all players do not know what a perfect roll provides. Maybe if it was simplified to be 1/2 or 1/4 of the stat.
Also, I think the ability pairing feature could work. Players could choose to use it or just run with their abilities as they use them now. The pairing would just reward players that are willing to spend the time on designing new builds based upon pairings.