What removing the Auction House means for the future of Diablo 3 (Diablo Digest)

  • #21

    I was already subscribed for some time to your channel on youtube and I liked this video as well. I didn't enjoy the final fantasy ones as much, but that's personal preference. I look forward to you making diablo videos more often again :) Your videos are done well and I enjoy watching/listening to them.


    I greatly appreciate the positive feedback and I fully understand how personal preferences go, so it's all good. Still, I'm sorry to hear you don't care for the FF ones, that's like my new drug. It's a sickness, maybe I should get it checked out. ;)


    While well worded your article has the assumption that removing the AH will also remove out-of-game trading for the diablo community. IF there is an optimal build/gear, players WILL find it out and they WILL actively try to obtain it. Removing the AH does not stop this; it was more visible with the AH, but once it is gone if optimal gear exists people will just use forums instead. So far, the bind-on-account system seems like it would have solved most of the issues you presented, OP, even if the AH was left in the game.

    I didn't forget about 3rd party sites, but I probably should have talked about that subject a bit more. you see, what I expect is that some people will still use other methods, it happened a lot in D2. I fully admit back then I didn't know about those sites but that doesn't mean it didn't happen, but it did mean that most people who just played just for fun didn't know about it or didn't bother as it wasn't at their fingertips.

    The big thing here isn't what people will do after the AH is gone. What matters is Blizzard's obligation. You see, right now, Blizzard wants to be very careful because they care about how people spent their money on their game. They won't touch skills or items that people paid good money for because Blizz knows it's bad to play with a person's expectation when real money is involved. They're always careful about changing things and giving warning in advance if something is going to change that affects customers (look how far ahead his announcement came for example).

    If users switch to Third party sites, Blizzard is no longer responsible for the money a person might have paid. That type of transaction is no longer supported by Blizzard so they can now change skills and items at will because it's all just game data with no monetary value applied. Granted Blizzard will still probably be careful about changing things too hastily, but they no longer have this Guillotine hanging over their necks that could drop the moment they dared to change something someone paid real cash for.

    The diablo team does admit loot 2.0 has to be the other half of the solution to the AH. But really the only way loot 2.0 can help is if it gives every single player a statistically realistic-yet not too time consuming- way to obtain optimal gear.If im a DH, and I want a 2 socket max damage, max CD Manticore; there MUST be a way for me to obtain it after only a few hours of farming or I will seek to save time by obtaining such an item through out-of game means.

    I'll have to respectfully disagree with the ability to get exactly what you want from a few hours. It should be about finding something cool that you might want to use and trying it out, not about picking that exact item that's perfect for what you want to do right now. But that's what trading is for and not everyone is going to go hunting on third party sites for that either. Sure some will, but a majority of the people who play casually probably won't care.


    In short you should not pass judgement on the "AH removal", good or bad, until you see what Loot 2.0 will actually do. So far we only have a vague idea.


    I'm not passing judgment, I wouldn't have cared if they didn't remove it because I didn't use it anyway. This is more about showing the road that can be taken, showing what this could mean now that the AH is out of Blizzard's hands. With their hands no longer tied to the system directly they are free to take more extreme actions.


    Welcome back, Kage. Saw your video day 1, but forgot to say hi. ^^


    Salutations good Sir. I choose to think of it not as forgetting to say hi, but rather you choose to very craftfully bump up the post on another day. ^_^


    And yet you yourself in your post do immedeat assumptions and judgement upon what the likelyhood of how a significant amount of people WILL act?

    Without the easy access to AH - most people won't bother to go to other sites etc. Because the main driving force behind the AH was not optimization - it was leissure. If something is very easy to access and gives you plenty of reward -> It becomes a routine -> it becomes normal.

    If it's hard to access - the number of people who will even remotely go to a third party site or w/e to get items, won't even get CLOSE to what AH does at the moment. As long as the reward system keeps on par with providing a standard for which is not impeding on their progress.

    I think this is a very valid point that convenience played a huge part in both the AH's success and failures. A lot of players aren't going to care about finding a 3rd party site if they feel they are finding enough to warrant playing. Hopefully Loot 2.0 does solve this.


    As for OP - Pretty solid view. Your choise of wording, pacing and what not all fits together to actually have me bother reading through all of it. And your thoughts , as far as i see it - are reasonable. I might even check out your YT Channel.


    Thank you. Not everything on my channel is a gem, but I do enjoy what I do so I put a lot of effort into it. B)


    I think it will be good but i hope they vome up with something else aswell


    Yes, something to make trading easier would help. I think something that doesn't attach a value to the items, but says "hey, I have this and I'd like to give it to someone, give me an offer". I've heard people suggest Browsable Stash tabs as an idea and I think that would be awesome. (all credit to ZiggyD for that one, I saw the idea first on his video).

    They've already given us the ability to add icons to our stash, why not tie it into Battle.net 2.0 and let people search your profile for items that you want to give away. Don't let players put a price on it so they have to still barter for items back and forth. That would be pretty cool. I think GGG is going to be doing something like this in the future for Path of Exile.
    Diablo 3 playthroughs and guides via Kagekaze's Domain or Twitch TV
    Come on by and comment on YouTube or chat on Twitch, twitch chat is often watched
  • #22
    Okay I know that making multi-posts is frowned on but darn my posts are getting long because of it. Forgive me just this one, mods. ;)
    Diablo 3 playthroughs and guides via Kagekaze's Domain or Twitch TV
    Come on by and comment on YouTube or chat on Twitch, twitch chat is often watched
  • #23
    Oh, we much prefer multi-posts to multiple post. Thank you!
  • #24

    Oh, we much prefer multi-posts than multiple post. Thank you!


    hehehe. It's just my posts just get scarry long when I reply to several people. O_O First world problems, I know. :lol:
    Diablo 3 playthroughs and guides via Kagekaze's Domain or Twitch TV
    Come on by and comment on YouTube or chat on Twitch, twitch chat is often watched
  • #25



    While well worded your article has the assumption that removing the AH will also remove out-of-game trading for the diablo community. IF there is an optimal build/gear, players WILL find it out and they WILL actively try to obtain it. Removing the AH does not stop this; it was more visible with the AH, but once it is gone if optimal gear exists people will just use forums instead. So far, the bind-on-account system seems like it would have solved most of the issues you presented, OP, even if the AH was left in the game.

    I didn't forget about 3rd party sites, but I probably should have talked about that subject a bit more. you see, what I expect is that some people will still use other methods, it happened a lot in D2. I fully admit back then I didn't know about those sites but that doesn't mean it didn't happen, but it did mean that most people who just played just for fun didn't know about it or didn't bother as it wasn't at their fingertips.

    The big thing here isn't what people will do after the AH is gone. What matters is Blizzard's obligation. You see, right now, Blizzard wants to be very careful because they care about how people spent their money on their game. They won't touch skills or items that people paid good money for because Blizz knows it's bad to play with a person's expectation when real money is involved. They're always careful about changing things and giving warning in advance if something is going to change that affects customers (look how far ahead his announcement came for example).

    If users switch to Third party sites, Blizzard is no longer responsible for the money a person might have paid. That type of transaction is no longer supported by Blizzard so they can now change skills and items at will because it's all just game data with no monetary value applied. Granted Blizzard will still probably be careful about changing things too hastily, but they no longer have this Guillotine hanging over their necks that could drop the moment they dared to change something someone paid real cash for.


    Good point! I will mention though that legally, because of the end user license agreement (the game is licensed to you not sold), Blizzard could change anything they want in the game while real money is involved. When you buy those Blizzard bucks you aren't trading currency for currency, you are technically buying the right to use X amount of blizzard bucks which Blizzard can take or modify in anyway....... But socially I definitely agree I could see an outrage and it would still be an annoyance for their legal team; removing the AH will help in that regards.

    The diablo team does admit loot 2.0 has to be the other half of the solution to the AH. But really the only way loot 2.0 can help is if it gives every single player a statistically realistic-yet not too time consuming- way to obtain optimal gear.If im a DH, and I want a 2 socket max damage, max CD Manticore; there MUST be a way for me to obtain it after only a few hours of farming or I will seek to save time by obtaining such an item through out-of game means.

    I'll have to respectfully disagree with the ability to get exactly what you want from a few hours. It should be about finding something cool that you might want to use and trying it out, not about picking that exact item that's perfect for what you want to do right now. But that's what trading is for and not everyone is going to go hunting on third party sites for that either. Sure some will, but a majority of the people who play casually probably won't care.



    Your right, it should be about finding something cool, but people's minds don't like working that way. The problem is that even when a minority of the population starts using 3rd party sites it will affect the rest of the population- this is afterall a social game. The people that go out and trade and/or buy will be significantly better than the casual player. This in turn causes those casual players to either quit because they can't keep up or begin trading/buying themselves-- this also is the status quo.

    What Im getting at here is this: 2 scenarios
    1. Diablo 3 with in-game AH
    2. Diablo 3 with no AH
    For each instance of the game some players will try to play casually while others will seek to maximize one or multiple characters. Im saying this: the only difference between the two scenarios is that one provides a safe in-game way of trading while the other does not. I do submit though that the real logical reason for removal of the AH is so that Blizzard can un-tie their hands and change the game more freely (though their hands are only tied by verbal and social media backlash)
    Blizzard used to care about releasing Diablo III, then they all took an arrow in the knee...
  • #26

    I do submit though that the real logical reason for removal of the AH is so that Blizzard can un-tie their hands and change the game more freely (though their hands are only tied by verbal and social media backlash)


    Whether or not I agree with your thesis, I think it says a lot about the community that the vocal minority can hold a company like Blizzard hostage in that manner. It's a scenario where the inmates are running the asylum and the opinions of a few, because of how they amplify their voices, end up hurting us all.

    That IAS nerf, in retrospect, was 100% legit. It didn't ruin IAS. It didn't make IAS a horrible stat. It just made it "not good enough" that a blue item with perfect IAS was no longer a "top" item. Blizzard was completely justified in making that change, yet it was contentious as anything. Why? Because a couple thousand people shit the bed because they had made RMAH purchases.

    As a community we have to stand up to those people because their interests are toxic and self-serving and do not represent the needs of the community at large. They have poisoned the water just as much as anything else. We should not allow the game to be held hostage by that demographic. We should have Blizzard's back when it comes to changing things, even if it means that people who have sunk real-world $$$ into items are up shit's creek.
    66.0k elite kills :: 1.97m total kills :: p244
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  • #27


    I do submit though that the real logical reason for removal of the AH is so that Blizzard can un-tie their hands and change the game more freely (though their hands are only tied by verbal and social media backlash)


    Whether or not I agree with your thesis, I think it says a lot about the community that the vocal minority can hold a company like Blizzard hostage in that manner. It's a scenario where the inmates are running the asylum and the opinions of a few, because of how they amplify their voices, end up hurting us all.

    That IAS nerf, in retrospect, was 100% legit. It didn't ruin IAS. It didn't make IAS a horrible stat. It just made it "not good enough" that a blue item with perfect IAS was no longer a "top" item. Blizzard was completely justified in making that change, yet it was contentious as anything. Why? Because a couple thousand people shit the bed because they had made RMAH purchases.

    As a community we have to stand up to those people because their interests are toxic and self-serving and do not represent the needs of the community at large. They have poisoned the water just as much as anything else. We should not allow the game to be held hostage by that demographic. We should have Blizzard's back when it comes to changing things, even if it means that people who have sunk real-world $$$ into items are up shit's creek.


    Yeeeaah.....I'm pretty sure that was Blizzard's lawyers' advice, and not the community's problem (although the people you talk about are very much real). I'm pretty sure their legal department said "yeah, I'd be careful messing with things people have purchased for real money, if I was you".
  • #28

    Yeeeaah.....I'm pretty sure that was Blizzard's lawyers' advice, and not the community's problem (although the people you talk about are very much real). I'm pretty sure their legal department said "yeah, I'd be careful messing with things people have purchased for real money, if I was you".


    Yes, as much as Blizz may want to prevent public outcry, I agree with Maka that they really just want to avoid those three sexy words that get any lawyer all twitterpaited. "Bait and Switch"
    Diablo 3 playthroughs and guides via Kagekaze's Domain or Twitch TV
    Come on by and comment on YouTube or chat on Twitch, twitch chat is often watched
  • #29
    when you said on your vid "there is no built in trade system" i paused it.

    ever try right clicking a character frame?
  • #30

    when you said on your vid "there is no built in trade system" i paused it.

    ever try right clicking a character frame?


    A Trade window does not a Trade system make. While they did add public chat channels, that's hardly a replacement or a "Trade System" either. While it's close to what D2 had, it's far from optimal. While I admit I wasn't quite clear in my meaning, I'm talking about getting a full trade system in place where you can list gear you want to sell/trade to prevent having wade through chat spam
    Diablo 3 playthroughs and guides via Kagekaze's Domain or Twitch TV
    Come on by and comment on YouTube or chat on Twitch, twitch chat is often watched
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