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Loot 2.0, discovering its true potential.

  • #121
    In the topic of non main stats, I'd like to see legendary items that interact with non main stats. For instance, a Monk spirit stone that increased the efficiency of intelligence could be cool (instead of 1 int = 0.1 all res it could be 1 int = 0.5 all res ; 500 int = 250 all res, this could be cool).

    Better yet, I think non main stats should have other effects than dodge, armor, all res :
    Dex = dodge + movement speed
    Int = all res + resource generation or something
    Str = armor + blocking chance on shield or something

    I'm a little short on ideas here, but notice that I'm keeping away from trifecta stats because we don't want more dependency on those.
  • #122
    Quote from Laevus

    Quote from MrMonstrosity

    The other thought that came to my head that I'm kicking myself for not putting in original post is why there's affixes like int/dex, str/int, and dex/str. Well I'm going to make a prediction that we'll be seeing classes that utilize these stat combinations in the expansion.


    I think it's been mentioned before that crossover stats like that shouldn't be viewed as useless because even (for example) int and dex are useful for a Barb as all res and dodge boost, however minor. Of course, everyone prefers the min/max playstyle and I'm pretty sure Barbs get better return from 1 point in strength than 1 point in either dex or int anyway.

    Still, It's what has been said by the Blue Almighty, so maybe they won't change it.

    Personally, I think it's better they fix non-main stats on class specific item. I hate finding wizard hats at the best of times, but finding one with +125 str and +90 vit and no int at all is crazy. Whether they remove str and dex from wiz hats completely I don't know, but there should be (random number time!) a set 100-200 int roll on them, with a max 100 roll of str/dex if they stay.


    Quite frankly, I feel that Strength and Dex are the only "non-main stats" I want. Dodge is extremely good and Strength is good because I always need more armor. I feel that All Resist gear gives plenty.
  • #123
    Quote from Laevus



    I think it's been mentioned before that crossover stats like that shouldn't be viewed as useless because even (for example) int and dex are useful for a Barb as all res and dodge boost, however minor. Of course, everyone prefers the min/max playstyle and I'm pretty sure Barbs get better return from 1 point in strength than 1 point in either dex or int anyway.

    Still, It's what has been said by the Blue Almighty, so maybe they won't change it.

    Personally, I think it's better they fix non-main stats on class specific item. I hate finding wizard hats at the best of times, but finding one with +125 str and +90 vit and no int at all is crazy. Whether they remove str and dex from wiz hats completely I don't know, but there should be (random number time!) a set 100-200 int roll on them, with a max 100 roll of str/dex if they stay.


    There's a problem I have with main stat being eligible to roll on class specific items that isn't the main stat for said class. A serious problem.

    Sure, they may find a niche for classes to stack non-class specific main. However, when STR can spawn on a Manticore (as I just had happen not 10 minutes ago) ....it takes away from the precious RMP. A Manticore has 2 RMP's. If it can roll STR, that takes away from 1 of only 2 RMP's, only to give the DH a very minimal armor bonus.

    On weapons in particular, people don't want to see this happening. If people begin wanting to stack non-class main stats, they won't want this to occur on weapons.

    Simply put, having non-class mains roll on class specific items is the #1 reason why many potentially godly Legendary items roll as brimstone.
  • #124
    Quote from ruksak

    Quote from Laevus

    I think it's been mentioned before that crossover stats like that shouldn't be viewed as useless because even (for example) int and dex are useful for a Barb as all res and dodge boost, however minor. Of course, everyone prefers the min/max playstyle and I'm pretty sure Barbs get better return from 1 point in strength than 1 point in either dex or int anyway.

    Still, It's what has been said by the Blue Almighty, so maybe they won't change it.

    Personally, I think it's better they fix non-main stats on class specific item. I hate finding wizard hats at the best of times, but finding one with +125 str and +90 vit and no int at all is crazy. Whether they remove str and dex from wiz hats completely I don't know, but there should be (random number time!) a set 100-200 int roll on them, with a max 100 roll of str/dex if they stay.


    There's a problem I have with main stat being eligible to roll on class specific items that isn't the main stat for said class. A serious problem.

    Sure, they may find a niche for classes to stack non-class specific main. However, when STR can spawn on a Manticore (as I just had happen not 10 minutes ago) ....it takes away from the precious RMP. A Manticore has 2 RMP's. If it can roll STR, that takes away from 1 of only 2 RMP's, only to give the DH a very minimal armor bonus.

    On weapons in particular, people don't want to see this happening. If people begin wanting to stack non-class main stats, they won't want this to occur on weapons.

    Simply put, having non-class mains roll on class specific items is the #1 reason why many potentially godly Legendary items roll as brimstone.



    I couldn't agree more actually, I was referring more to rares with my comments.

    My opinions on the legendary stats have changed over time, but I've come back to my initial reaction. When they first released what stats would be on them, I hated the idea of +1 random stat. Hated it.

    I always liked to work out builds in D2 by browsing Arreat Summit when I couldn't play, or figuring it out in my head because the stats were set, fixed. I never liked the idea that stats could roll randomly on such a much sought after item.

    Granted, they wanted to increase diversity blah blah blah, but I feel it's one of the main reasons that we get disappointed with each legendary we identify. I'd would much MUCH rather have full Blizzard created stats (with ranges) that make each item good for different reasons in themselves so that if I find a weapon, I won't be disappointed to find it's got no random socket roll or no random crit damage roll.

    People might complain that this would hurt the game as the powerful items would stay more powerful and there would be more of them, but don't forget that soon we'll have previously lower level legendary items rolling with ilvl 63 stats, greatly increasing the item pool. If it's still an issue, lower the drop rate of all shiny laser items.

    My opinion of course :P
    "It takes a man with real heart...to make beauty out of the stuff that makes us weep." - Clive Barker
  • #125
    We need EVERY single idea you have for Diablo 3... Why haven't they hired you yet?! Blizzard needs to stop being like a slowpoke and bringing small features. We need big changes, and alot of them. Not just "Ok here you go, have PvP, 3 bosses and Loot V2 that isn't as good as MrMonstrosity's ideas". Blizzard really needs to think for once about their fans, in the end we made them how they are today, atleast they should stop being 100% greedy and atleast care alittlebit, they sure don't lack the money. 15mil copies sold of Diablo 3? A ton from RMAH? I think if they'll improve the game drastically pre-expansion that will benefit Diablo 3 forever, then release a huge expansion with alot of features, it's gonna be the only way to save Diablo 3. But anyways, I expect the worst and hope for the best. Even though my bet is on that they won't make it as awesome as it would be with these changes from MrMonstrosity. But we can hope...

    PS I hope you're working in the gaming industry, your ideas are beyond this world. You could probably create the best game in gaming history with those ideas lol. :)
  • #126
    Nice to see and hear some ideas which are really intriguing. I think the basic principles you are talking about have merit but not necessarily the implementation such as rewarding the player with a buff for discovering items.

    You state that item hunt is the single most important aspect of the game and to a certain extent I agree with that. I would say that it is a critical aspect of the game but only in combination with other important aspects.

    That said with regards to item hunt one aspect that has always confused me is why the entire game is geared around selling and destroying items that you have worked hard at finding or been lucky enough to find (specifically legendaries). The stash available is so limited that you have to sell or destroy items and you can't keep them for future use or just to collect them which is fun in and of itself.

    Collecting items should be encouraged and rewarded as well (not with a buff but like a trophy room for viewing them).

    Just interested to hear your thoughts on the idea that collecting items should be rewarded not discouraged.
  • #127
    The only issue I have is the legendary rune idea. It depends on the options available on the legendary item. If I don't like the extra effect of the legendary, I feel I'm not using it for 100% and that will result in 1 legendary being useless (to me). It also requires that Blizzard will make new rune effects, while still a lot of effects are broken and should be fixed first.
    One option I would like better is when the legendary item improves the current runes available. Not all of themat once, but just one which will be determined once you identify it. Ofcourse this means that all runes need to be fixed and I wonder if Blizz is able to do this properly.

    Great post and it's good to see people still very pasionate about D3.
  • #128
    The magic find change (with some tuning perhaps) is quite brilliant.

  • #129
    Ideas are great and there is only one thing I would change there.

    I'm not sure why people force Gold so much. Whenever I see someone using mystic, it requires millions of gold to upgrade some items, that's just stupid.

    Involve better game mechanics to upgrade items, to find certain materials, I don't know why is everyone forcing gold and Chinese farmers so much.

    I don't want to farm endlessly and beg Gods for some drop so I can sell it for bunch of gold and upgrade my item. Upgrading items should be completely separated from Gold. Not everyone is getting billion worth items. I have over 1300 hours played and I m farming mp10 for past couple of months and I never got item worth more then 50 mils. Not everyone is lucky and have 160 million gold (just giving an example from your post) to upgrade an item.
  • #130
    Truly amazing post. Would love to see alot of these ingame sometime in the future.

    Blizzard : Do yourself a favor and hire this guy!
  • #131
    Thank you very much for shareing with us this amaising perspective on the game!

    I really hope that somw high profile game designers up there at Diablo's 3 Blizzard designer's team take a serious look on what you put down on the table here.

    Or even better I hope you are interested, apply and get accepted as a Diablo 3 designer. ;)

    And yeah plz keep your ideea flowing to the public scene... please...

    PS the down side or reading up your post is that the cold reality hit's you hard when you put your hand back on the game. What you lay out before us its just to good to ever get implemented. They are afraid so thats why they will take the infinit small staps not to ruin the game even more.

    PS2 And yeah I have AH so much, I think is the worst think for the health of the game. Its fun and interesting but kills your interest in the game so much faster!
  • #132
    The +damage from achievements based on sheer luck is plain bad. I have played D2:LoD for 7 years never ever found a fracking Stone of Jordan so yeah you want to have the self found special snowlfake badge all right, but without any other benefit besides the personal ego boost.


    There are a few solutions to that. If you make the bonus small and rewarded for each step of the way it wont feel so bad being unlucky not finding the last one. IE if bonus is 0,1% per unique twohanded sword, getting stuck on 9/10 won't be that bad.
    Or you could have it max out when you have found 3/4 of the uniques in a collection and getting all of the last 1/4 only rewards you some visual effect.

    The only issue I have is the legendary rune idea.


    I have a bit of a feeling that if they are good enough they become mandatory just like sockets are now on weapons, so a weapon without the "right" rune becomes almost worthless.
    I would probably prefer to see them as separate drops and either have a few empty rune slots we can fill with what we prefer. Another possibility is to make them replace the ones we have now. The dropped runes would have the basic properties of the existing runes we have now + some legendary effect or some random properties depending how often you want them to drop.

    We need EVERY single idea you have for Diablo 3... Why haven't they hired you yet?! Blizzard needs to stop being like a slowpoke and bringing small features. We need big changes, and alot of them.


    The collective player base is awesome for generating ideas, simply because we are so many. Some blizzard will have thought of themselves, some are twists of their ideas and some will be new ideas.

    But as you can see, not even the few pretty straight forward ideas of the OP has drawbacks that need to be evaluated and perhaps addressed or modified. And this is even before the coding has begun or even evaluating if the ideas can be implemented without having to change or replace to much of the existing code. Some ideas probably look awesome on paper but once implemented in game they are clunky or just confusing.
  • #133
    If only half of these changes were implemented, I'd be spending most of my game time in Diablo III again. Leave it to a player to realize what keeps players coming back to a game, I guess. Heck, I'd pay for these changes to be implemented. All of them substantially increase the replayability and the freshness of the game (save perhaps the adjustments to the legendary beam of light, which is purely cosmetic: you merely bring the "wow" moment from the point in time when you identify the item to the point in time when it drops... it's a novelty that will wear off after a few dozen drops - but then again, it's so easy to implement, the art/dev team might as well go for it).

    I sincerely hope Blizzard is listening.
  • #134
    Quote from Colossus

    Nice to see and hear some ideas which are really intriguing. I think the basic principles you are talking about have merit but not necessarily the implementation such as rewarding the player with a buff for discovering items.

    You state that item hunt is the single most important aspect of the game and to a certain extent I agree with that. I would say that it is a critical aspect of the game but only in combination with other important aspects.

    That said with regards to item hunt one aspect that has always confused me is why the entire game is geared around selling and destroying items that you have worked hard at finding or been lucky enough to find (specifically legendaries). The stash available is so limited that you have to sell or destroy items and you can't keep them for future use or just to collect them which is fun in and of itself.

    Collecting items should be encouraged and rewarded as well (not with a buff but like a trophy room for viewing them).

    Just interested to hear your thoughts on the idea that collecting items should be rewarded not discouraged.


    That somewhat scares me too, if all the legendary items are good for at least some build does that mean we're going to want to collect one of each item? We'd be running out of space for sure.

    What you have to remember though is "destroying" (salvaging) the item is actually a smaller hunt for items in itself. The hunt for those rare brimstones that you can use to craft other items. That's one of the reasons the 100% salvage rate needs to disappear, we need a risk.
  • #135
    Awesome awesome post. The effort is impressive. I find myself agreeing with most of your suggestions (did not really care for your insistance that the drop rates must be tied to the AH ... it doesn't).

    That said, while these changes would make the D3 experience much better, it doesn't come close to addressing the root problem with D3, and that is that everything (progression, customization, power etc.) is dependant on your gear. This is the fundamental game flaw that loot will never fix.
  • #136
    Quote from whoopadeedoo

    Awesome awesome post. I find myself agreeing with nearly everything you said.

    That said, while these changes would make the D3 experience much better, it doesn't come close to addressing the root problem with D3, and that is that everything (progression, customization, power etc.) is dependant on your gear. This is the fundamental game flaw that loot will never fix.


    Character customization is a huge deal, especially when it comes to an ARPG. Paragon levels granting points to actually customize your character will change this I hope. The only issue I see them running into is, do they let people respec these at any point? If they did would it be hard to do so?

    I can already see someone getting to level 100 paragon and messing up by putting one point in the wrong trait. Maybe they'd have the option to reset lets say the points in level groups 1-10, 11-20, 21-30, etc simply by re-leveling. It's hard to explain, I'll try to show:

    1-10 (10 points) (5 trait options)
    11-20 (10 points) (5 trait options)
    21-30 (10 points) (5 trait options)
    31-40 (10 points) (5 trait options)
    41-50 (10 points) (5 trait options)
    51-60 (10 points) (5 trait options)
    61-70 (10 points) (5 trait options)
    71-80 (10 points) (5 trait options)
    81-90 (10 points) (5 trait options)
    91-100 (10 points) (5 trait options)

    Players could spend those 10 points in each group anyway they want among lets say 3 or so different traits per group. If you want to adjust them you'll have to reset that specific group and gain the required experience the same as before. It might make +exp items useful for even lvl 100 paragon levels at some point. It's not as harsh as messing up in D2, but it at least provides punishment for changing.
  • #137
    Quote from MrMonstrosity

    Quote from whoopadeedoo

    Awesome awesome post. I find myself agreeing with nearly everything you said.

    That said, while these changes would make the D3 experience much better, it doesn't come close to addressing the root problem with D3, and that is that everything (progression, customization, power etc.) is dependant on your gear. This is the fundamental game flaw that loot will never fix.


    Character customization is a huge deal, especially when it comes to an ARPG. Paragon levels granting points to actually customize your character will change this I hope. The only issue I see them running into is, do they let people respec these at any point? If they did would it be hard to do so?

    I can already see someone getting to level 100 paragon and messing up by putting one point in the wrong trait. Maybe they'd have the option to reset lets say the points in level groups 1-10, 11-20, 21-30, etc simply by re-leveling. It's hard to explain, I'll try to show:

    1-10 (10 points) (5 trait options)
    11-20 (10 points) (5 trait options)
    21-30 (10 points) (5 trait options)
    31-40 (10 points) (5 trait options)
    41-50 (10 points) (5 trait options)
    51-60 (10 points) (5 trait options)
    61-70 (10 points) (5 trait options)
    71-80 (10 points) (5 trait options)
    81-90 (10 points) (5 trait options)
    91-100 (10 points) (5 trait options)

    Players could spend those 10 points in each group anyway they want among lets say 3 or so different traits per group. If you want to adjust them you'll have to reset that specific group and gain the required experience the same as before. It might make +exp items useful for even lvl 100 paragon levels at some point. It's not as harsh as messing up in D2, but it at least provides punishment for changing.



    Any stat allocation has to be meaningful. In other words, it can't be a few token stats to pad your main stat or vit ... it has to be emergent choices to give your character real power and uniqueness. Furthermore, these choices have to interact with gear and vice versa. Gear and character should compliment and synergize. We should not be simply the sum of our gear or sum of our points. The easiest way to accomplish this is to make elemental damages matter again. This linear, universal dps/ehp rat race is a horrible game design. I like most of your suggestions, but none of them really help us fix this fundamental flaw of D3. The game will forever be shallow until the devs address customization, progression, and power systems.

    Sorry to detract from your thread. I'm done (for now) :P
  • #138
    Quote from whoopadeedoo

    The easiest way to accomplish this is to make elemental damages matter again. This linear, universal dps/ehp rat race is a horrible game design.


    A small thing that's always bothered me is how a character could use an item with let's say Elemental Fire damage and cast Blizzard without any sort of penalty. Maybe a bonus for using items and skills of the appropriate elemental type? Every class and build would be now required to use different weapons instead of that damn EF...
  • #139
    Quote from maka

    Quote from Shinna1989

    Quote from MrMonstrosity

    The reason I think it's good is because right now low level characters never find legendary items, this would at least give them the same chance at finding a legendary the same as high levels do.

    This is not true and already proven. There was a 6hr legendary farming competion last days for charity. One of the teams used fresh dinged lv60 chars(archon the wizzards team) they managed to collect close to 70 legendaries which was approx 50% of what the pl100 teams got. So saying you dont get legendaries is wrong. You dont find that many thats right but imo its ok since you should feel rewarded for grinding your way thru pl100.


    That proves nothing. The sample size is ridiculously small. Ridiculously.

    Sure its based on rng but on avg. its approx 50%...

    PL100 farming mp10 = 300mf from pl + 250 mf from mp10 + 75 from 5nv = 625 mf
    PL0 farming mp10 = 0 mf from pl + 250 from mp10 + 75 from 5nv = 325 mf

    Simple math not always have to deal with huge samplesizes. ;)
  • #140
    Quote from FuriousBalls

    Ideas are great and there is only one thing I would change there.

    I'm not sure why people force Gold so much. Whenever I see someone using mystic, it requires millions of gold to upgrade some items, that's just stupid.

    Involve better game mechanics to upgrade items, to find certain materials, I don't know why is everyone forcing gold and Chinese farmers so much.

    I don't want to farm endlessly and beg Gods for some drop so I can sell it for bunch of gold and upgrade my item. Upgrading items should be completely separated from Gold. Not everyone is getting billion worth items. I have over 1300 hours played and I m farming mp10 for past couple of months and I never got item worth more then 50 mils. Not everyone is lucky and have 160 million gold (just giving an example from your post) to upgrade an item.


    I agree, not all of us have billions of gold to spend with no worries... the poor will spend som much time gathering gold that they'll be afraid of use it just for an upgrade...
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