I've read off and on that Blizz took out pentagrams and crosses from the game.
Why? Because of religious sentiments.
Honestly, I don't know about crosses so much. That doesn't really seem to be a constant theme in Diablo from what I remember. But there WERE pentagrams at one time, weren't there?
Was this REALLY a serious problem? I honestly don't remember there being such a huge public outrage and if there wasn't, I don't see a reason for them to consider the inclusion/exclusion of certain imagery from their game now based on what a few people may say.
So if it wasn't such a big deal then, why are they doing it now?
How many of you guys were actually offended about the depiction of pentagrams? Any Wiccans play this game and felt upset that their religious symbol was being misused?
The reason they have to do it now is because video gaming have become a lot more mainstream in the past 10 years, which means that if they don't want to have to deal with not being able to sell it certain places or having certain groups bugging them, they have to make things a bit less overt. Unfortunately.
I really wish we still had them. They REALLY spooked me out as a kid. And when I see them now, I still get some of that childhood uneasiness. I really wish they still had pentagrams smeared in blood across the floor. It made the place seem like..well, you shouldn't be there, and that you are, you're going to pay one way or another.
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Really? I wonder if that's going to stop Id when they create DooM 4. I doubt it.
I don't know, I don't think that kind of excuse holds much water. The music industry has had a plethora of artists who invoked disturbing imagery and yes, they had public outcries, and YES, they're still incredibly and unstoppably successful.
I just find it completely flimsy of an excuse that gaming has somehow gotten somewhere now that it wasn't 10 years ago.
I mean, really? 10 years ago, gaming was just as popular and huge as it is now.
I'm going to call it. Blizzard is being per-emptively cowards on this issue.
The ONLY excuse that I can think of is that they're trying to make Diablo a more child/teen friendly game. That's the ONLY reason that seems to make any coherent sense.
Edit: Or as someone else mentioned, they want the religions in Sanctuary to be their own religions.
As for the crosses and pentagrams, it has absolutely nothing to do with mainstream or religion. It is because after D2 came out, they retconned it and we were no longer fighting in a mideveal earth themed fantasy world being invaded by hell. We were now on some entirely new world that had no similarities to our. As such the whole pentagrams and crosses are out with the bath water in D3. It has to do with those symbols making absolutely no sense showing up on a world that is not themed off of earth.
I don't really remember noticing them that much to be honest. Though in D1 the cathedral was covered with them.
If you want to get the numbers right and actually accuse Jesus of wrongdoings correctly, you have to blame Yehwey, NOT Jesus. It is only according to what the bible says in the old testament and in any actions that Yehwey did throughout the bible that you can lay claim that it was technically more murderous than Hitler. Not Jesus.
I can sort of see that to an extent and it's the most reasonable excuse.
I'm sure that they can have ways of making something look "satanic" without having to use pentagrams. I mean, they ARE fighting Hell. Let's not mince words or even realms here. Hell is Hell. Heaven is Heaven.
I'm glad to see the crosses go, the Diabo-verse did not feel like priests fighting the devil to me.
I don't see room for Jesus in the Diablo universe, or any God.
If there is no Jesus, there will be no crosses (except for ones legitimately being used for crucifixion).
Diablo is not the devil, he is a giant fire-breathing dinosaur, a prime evil, one of many prime evils.
I bet the reasoning is less "lets try not to upset the Christians, they might forbid the game from being sold" and more "now that we have our own story, our own universe, we do not need generic references to Earthen culture, we can make our own cultures with their own unique symbols and icons."
I agree with what you have said. But I just need to point out that crucifixion is related to Christianity and therefore, is also inappropriate for the Diablo universe.
actually as a practicing christian who will be going to bed shortly for church tomorrow, the cross precedes Christ by a good bit. It was used by the Romans extensively prior to him being crucified. I can't say historically if it predates the Romans or not, but I do know they used it alot before they used it on Christ.
On the subject of the pentagram - it's been used in nearly every single world culture... and eliminating it just to get rid of it seems silly. But it's their decision.
At first when I read the first couple of threads I defiantly disagreed with taking out the symbols, but I realize that's just me being scared of change lol (loved D1 and D2), D3 is a brand new game from almost all standpoints, and I actually think it would be a lot more fun for them to come up with their own satanic symbols. Makes sense; still spooky but also has the lowest chance of pissing off some whiny people.
Yea they could use the cross, as kingcobb says it's defiantly an old symbol. But I mean, so is the swatzstika (spelling?) before it was called that. That symbol has been around almost as long as man, and for almost every culture it meant something good, like for instance it was the 'four L's' at one point; Life, light, luck and love. But yea my vote is on some brand new creepy symbols and what not =D
As a Wiccan, it does not bother me. As a writer and game developer, it is a bit silly. The cross and pentagram were used because of deep-rooted meanings endowed in certain societies... meanings derived from real world religions. The great mother has no place in Diablo II. God has no place in Diablo II. If you can enrich your fantasy world from the ground-up with your own diverse and interesting creative decisions, then please do so.
It is not all about being original or trying not to offend anyone. It is about choosing a design path that you created yourself and thus can rightfully dictate how it evolves. If they want to take the boring and strange route of throwing God into their work, then that would be a whole different story.
I really wish we still had them. They REALLY spooked me out as a kid. And when I see them now, I still get some of that childhood uneasiness. I really wish they still had pentagrams smeared in blood across the floor. It made the place seem like..well, you shouldn't be there, and that you are, you're going to pay one way or another.
This.
Diablo 1 was covered with this shit, crosses and blood and symbols all over the place.
FUCK what the symbols mean to religions now.. I mean, the religions now are already just based on previous religions before them so what the hell does it matter.
Anyway, "strange" pentagrams and symbols, crosses and whatnot really helped make Diablo 1 what it was, which Diablo 2 is based off and is what most people know now..
BUT seeing the footage of D3 i can see how it can be without it.. But then again, Diablo 1 was a lot more dark and athmosperic, gothic and stuff, which really isn't what the D3 team is aiming for.
(Warning i am f***ing drunk, can't type or express myself very well... Maybe should have said that at the top of my post =P)
I really wish we still had them. They REALLY spooked me out as a kid. And when I see them now, I still get some of that childhood uneasiness. I really wish they still had pentagrams smeared in blood across the floor. It made the place seem like..well, you shouldn't be there, and that you are, you're going to pay one way or another.
This.
Diablo 1 was covered with this shit, crosses and blood and symbols all over the place.
FUCK what the symbols mean to religions now.. I mean, the religions now are already just based on previous religions before them so what the hell does it matter.
Anyway, "strange" pentagrams and symbols, crosses and whatnot really helped make Diablo 1 what it was, which Diablo 2 is based off and is what most people know now..
BUT seeing the footage of D3 i can see how it can be without it.. But then again, Diablo 1 was a lot more dark and athmosperic, gothic and stuff, which really isn't what the D3 team is aiming for.
(Warning i am f***ing drunk, can't type or express myself very well... Maybe should have said that at the top of my post =P)
Dont you wish you were playing D3 atm instead of sittin on some forums? I'm drunk, and I wish that very muchso =D
Choosing your own symbols is all well and good, but the other consideration is recognizability. If they draw some random symbol and unless there's some lore bit TELLIGN you it's a demon symbol you really have no idea.
People use common symbols not because they're trying to compare, but because they're trying to ensure people are able to recognize what those symbols refer to.
Why? Because of religious sentiments.
Honestly, I don't know about crosses so much. That doesn't really seem to be a constant theme in Diablo from what I remember. But there WERE pentagrams at one time, weren't there?
Was this REALLY a serious problem? I honestly don't remember there being such a huge public outrage and if there wasn't, I don't see a reason for them to consider the inclusion/exclusion of certain imagery from their game now based on what a few people may say.
So if it wasn't such a big deal then, why are they doing it now?
How many of you guys were actually offended about the depiction of pentagrams? Any Wiccans play this game and felt upset that their religious symbol was being misused?
I really just don't get it, honestly.
For me, it was more that they wanted to create their own world with their own religions and symbols.
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-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged
fun
I don't know, I don't think that kind of excuse holds much water. The music industry has had a plethora of artists who invoked disturbing imagery and yes, they had public outcries, and YES, they're still incredibly and unstoppably successful.
I just find it completely flimsy of an excuse that gaming has somehow gotten somewhere now that it wasn't 10 years ago.
I mean, really? 10 years ago, gaming was just as popular and huge as it is now.
I'm going to call it. Blizzard is being per-emptively cowards on this issue.
The ONLY excuse that I can think of is that they're trying to make Diablo a more child/teen friendly game. That's the ONLY reason that seems to make any coherent sense.
Edit: Or as someone else mentioned, they want the religions in Sanctuary to be their own religions.
Find any Diablo news? Contact me or anyone else on the News team
I don't really remember noticing them that much to be honest. Though in D1 the cathedral was covered with them.
If you want to get the numbers right and actually accuse Jesus of wrongdoings correctly, you have to blame Yehwey, NOT Jesus. It is only according to what the bible says in the old testament and in any actions that Yehwey did throughout the bible that you can lay claim that it was technically more murderous than Hitler. Not Jesus.
Anyway... A retcon? Boulderdash.
I'm sure that they can have ways of making something look "satanic" without having to use pentagrams. I mean, they ARE fighting Hell. Let's not mince words or even realms here. Hell is Hell. Heaven is Heaven.
I agree with what you have said. But I just need to point out that crucifixion is related to Christianity and therefore, is also inappropriate for the Diablo universe.
Crosses could be different though. It was originally used for a kind of execution and torture before Christianity hijacked it.
Yea they could use the cross, as kingcobb says it's defiantly an old symbol. But I mean, so is the swatzstika (spelling?) before it was called that. That symbol has been around almost as long as man, and for almost every culture it meant something good, like for instance it was the 'four L's' at one point; Life, light, luck and love. But yea my vote is on some brand new creepy symbols and what not =D
It is not all about being original or trying not to offend anyone. It is about choosing a design path that you created yourself and thus can rightfully dictate how it evolves. If they want to take the boring and strange route of throwing God into their work, then that would be a whole different story.
Diablo 1 was covered with this shit, crosses and blood and symbols all over the place.
FUCK what the symbols mean to religions now.. I mean, the religions now are already just based on previous religions before them so what the hell does it matter.
Anyway, "strange" pentagrams and symbols, crosses and whatnot really helped make Diablo 1 what it was, which Diablo 2 is based off and is what most people know now..
BUT seeing the footage of D3 i can see how it can be without it.. But then again, Diablo 1 was a lot more dark and athmosperic, gothic and stuff, which really isn't what the D3 team is aiming for.
(Warning i am f***ing drunk, can't type or express myself very well... Maybe should have said that at the top of my post =P)
Dont you wish you were playing D3 atm instead of sittin on some forums? I'm drunk, and I wish that very muchso =D
People use common symbols not because they're trying to compare, but because they're trying to ensure people are able to recognize what those symbols refer to.
Hollywood signage is simply silly in a Diablo game imo.