The problem that we face is that we can't pick anyone that uses any references (memes, pop culture, movies, etc.) from outside the series (everyone's first complaint), so that eliminates 95% of them. Then we got in trouble for picking one that focused on image usage and didn't include a caption, so we had to be sure entries had literal captions.
What are the rules, exactly? I mean - while I'm not complaining about losing - the last competition I entered, I apparently wasn't able to win from the moment I sent in my submission. This was largely due to the aforementioned rules of selection that were implemented after previous weeks (namely, the first winner). I wasn't aware of them at the time, and thus, made my submission accordingly.
I totally understand the decisions made, I don't think the contest was 'rigged', and I even found the winning submission to be somewhat amusing (though my own preferences lean elsewhere, even aside from my own) but I would've liked to be kept into the loop. Making a submission like the first winner's ended up making it impossible for me to win from the start, because of changes in the rules that I was not aware of. That is frustrating, to say the least. As such, I kind of want to avoid a repeat situation like that again, if at all possible.
For a moment while writing this, I asked myself if I was simply ignorant, or just making a big deal out of nothing. To ensure that I wasn't being biased in my perspectives, I went back to the third contest to examine it a bit more closely: http://www.diablofans.com/news/932-beta-key-contest-3/. I didn't see anything about no memes, or even no images. I suppose one could take the speech and thought bubbles aspect literally, and extrapolate that it cannot be anything except such, but then the actual winner technically wouldn't apply, for having subtext; this of course would be a silly proposition. Combine this with the fact that the first winner had an image, and you run into a situation of some rules obscurity.
I digress. What was done is done. But, that doesn't mean I won't learn from previous errors. So, now I ask, what are the rules for this? Outside references are no-no's, I assume. How 'short' is 'short'? Will I be disqualified for typing too much or too little? It's just really difficult to read between the lines now, and I'm worried that there's some hidden clause that will guarantee loss before I even submit a given piece of writing. I suppose the easy answer is "If you're worried about losing, then don't participate." Honestly, though, I'd like to. I have no problems with losing; It's the 'no chance' feeling that I'd rather not meet with again. Thus, I figured that opening the lanes of communication would be a good idea. There's no ill will, just confusion and caution, I suppose.
Thanks for reading, and preemptive thanks for any possible clarity on the matter.
I'll be supporting people complaining about this even if I haven't actually entered the contest. Just so we're clear.
edit: Not answering the people's concerns and locking these topics is just going to make things worse I'm sure. After all, this is Diablo Fans as I remember, not Sixen's Blog.
I'm not sure where you got that quote, you didn't link to it. Anyhow we don't have a direct set of rules. The guidelines are in the post.
The best advice I could give you would be to make the next entry (which is writing) unique and interesting, not too short and not too long. Keep in mind those are just guidelines though.
I'm not sure whoever's post you linked is relevant anymore in a writing contest and we aren't going to revisit a past contest.
Finally an intelligent and constructive post about this topic. I've been reluctant to post in any of the previous since they've just been filled with rage and QQ..
I agree with you that the contest rules should be a bit clearer stated in the first place. I understand why they want to keep the contests rather relaxed and not be too strict, but adding some general guidelines (a bit more descriptive and clearly visible in the original post) wouldn't be hard and would prevent:
1. A lot of entries that are going to be "disqualified" anyway. Reducing the work of looking through them, and the effort of creating them.
2. Having to answering to questions regarding rules.
3. A lot of the QQ waves that come after from disappointed members who didn't win.
Really I see no reason not to do this.
Edit: This is less relevant to this new writing contest though since it's pretty clear what you should do and figuring out how long/short it should be is kinda up to each his own.
Its not a pm, its a quote from the controversy beta contest 3 thread.
Edit: Or at least thats where i thought i read it. I know i read it somewhere. Maybe it was in the comments section of the actual contest for Beta key #4.
Mmm I found the quote. Magistrate was stating his opinion. There are no rules against such things that's just how he decided to vote. Your submission had just as fair of a chance.
Scroll down until you see the Warner Brother's frog, then go down two posts down to Magistrate's. He has a disclaimer, but that's still an exact quote of the explanation that I read. Not sure if or how it applies to things, but if true (which seems to be the case) then my concerns are still persistent. I suppose I understand a lack of strict rules (Relaxed competitive atmosphere), but it does seem somewhat unnerving that there's no consistency in choice of 'best'. Makes it difficult - if not impossible - to get an idea of how to compete when the definitions of quality adjust from week to week.
The best advice I could give you would be to make the next entry (which is writing) unique and interesting, not too short and not too long. Keep in mind those are just guidelines though.
Obscure ones at that. Though I can't say I'm disappointed or anything, since I'll be the first to admit that such guidelines are completely fair, and of course note the subjective nature of artistic endeavors.
Mmm I found the quote. Magistrate was stating his opinion. There are no rules against such things that's just how he decided to vote. Your submission had just as fair of a chance.
I see. Well, then thanks very much for your time. I suppose if it indeed wasn't a matter of simply trying to quell complaints, then I have no room for concern. Still, it doesn't help my enthusiasm for the future, but I appreciate the clarity none the less. Thanks.
P.S. Meant to click edit instead of delete. I haven't slept, so hand eye sucks. Sorry.
I have absolutely no problem losing but to lose to frankly rubbish entries is extremely disheartening and leaves me wondering "Why did I bother at all?". I would love to see someone win who actually deserves it for a change, if I didn't know better I'd think the winners (especially this week) were just picked at random.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The question isn't why do I kill. The question is, why I don't kill everybody.
Mmm I found the quote. Magistrate was stating his opinion. There are no rules against such things that's just how he decided to vote. Your submission had just as fair of a chance.
Judging by the particular language Magistrate used (we can't pick references) I'm not fully convinced this is his opinion. If this were the case, he would have said something along the lines of "I personally don't pick any with references". Why the particular language expressing inability to choose a specific type of entry? After the first winner, which was both lacking captions and was a pop culture reference...
edit: P.S. The 2012 apocalypse is also a pop culture reference.
Why the particular language expressing inability to choose a specific type of entry? After the first winner, which was both lacking captions and was a pop culture reference...
We try to speak as a team when we can but of course we are our own people as well. We all have differing opinions and that's just about all you'll see from us unless it's strictly regarding forum rules. In the end Sixen has final say since he runs the site and has the keys(he hasn't exercised that right or anything, it's been a democratic process).
So all I can do is try to clear up everyone's concerns. I'll say right now though I don't want to deal with any further straight out complaints or complaint threads, I WILL close them. In the end humor and which one was "best" is subjective and I simply can't change that.
The number of threads is doing no-one any good, so I'm writing this.
Keep in mind this: generally if something is not forbidden in the free world, it is allowed. It is the essence of creativity to think of something no-one else did, and that we haven't forbidden.
The beta key contest is a contest of creativity and that automatically includes pushing the envelope and trying the rules. A caption could've won the contest just alike, so there was no disadvantage to the people that didn't read the first post that included detailed how-to and mentioned that obviously adding other things besides speech bubbles is allowed. The next contest might be won by an especially poignant caption, so do not take the winning entry of contest 1# as a sign of official criteria for judging the entries. Every entry was judged only by its merits.
If you have something to say on the beta contest, please do so in a civil manner. Most fruitful target is PM'ing Sixen or a manager (Daemaro, Scyberdragon or Phrozendragon). While as we will try to give everyone a fair shot, whining and flaming other users will not increase one's chances. Constructive discussion in a calm manner is always appreciated.
Now:
The problem that we face is that we can't pick anyone that uses any references (memes, pop culture, movies, etc.) from outside the series (everyone's first complaint), so that eliminates 95% of them. Then we got in trouble for picking one that focused on image usage and didn't include a caption, so we had to be sure entries had literal captions.
Solution: Can Sixen, when there's a new beta key contest, just put the rules in his post regarding the current contest. The OP has legitimate concerns regarding the rules. I will also be pissed off if there were multiple set of "rules" from different Mods/Admin. It won't be that much effort.
Daemaro. Do you even have a voice in this? I mean do you express your vote as well? Cause I didn't think you do, or any other moderator in that matter. :]
Agreed, Sixen really should put concrete rules for each individual contest. I think most of the anger towards these giveaways has actually been regarding the rules and the lack of clarity.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The question isn't why do I kill. The question is, why I don't kill everybody.
Thanks for your response Daemaro. I just wouldn't like it to be the case that Sixen tells all the mods who are choosing their favorite entries "Don't choose any with pop culture references" and keep that information out of the rules. As long as its just Magistrate's own personal preference it's not really a big deal. I'd probably agree with him and try to choose something more original rather than a reference that anyone could make, shows more creativity.
Yes we have say in the contests if we want to, no one is forced to participate in voting, and no Sixen hasn't told us any more specific rules than you guys have gotten.
Anyways this contest now is pretty straight forward. Not sure what we're doing after this but I'll see if I can get a clearer set of rules depending on what we're doing.
I'll let you all in on a secret. We got 10 keys total just like every other fansite. I wish we had gotten more and were special but Blizzard treats all the sites the same. There is nothing nefarious going on, no conspiracy.
Anyways I'm finally going to bed. I think the topic of this thread has been addressed so I'm closing it before bed lest it get out of hand while I sleep.
Thanks all for your concerns and I hope I helped answer some of them.
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I totally understand the decisions made, I don't think the contest was 'rigged', and I even found the winning submission to be somewhat amusing (though my own preferences lean elsewhere, even aside from my own) but I would've liked to be kept into the loop. Making a submission like the first winner's ended up making it impossible for me to win from the start, because of changes in the rules that I was not aware of. That is frustrating, to say the least. As such, I kind of want to avoid a repeat situation like that again, if at all possible.
For a moment while writing this, I asked myself if I was simply ignorant, or just making a big deal out of nothing. To ensure that I wasn't being biased in my perspectives, I went back to the third contest to examine it a bit more closely: http://www.diablofans.com/news/932-beta-key-contest-3/. I didn't see anything about no memes, or even no images. I suppose one could take the speech and thought bubbles aspect literally, and extrapolate that it cannot be anything except such, but then the actual winner technically wouldn't apply, for having subtext; this of course would be a silly proposition. Combine this with the fact that the first winner had an image, and you run into a situation of some rules obscurity.
I digress. What was done is done. But, that doesn't mean I won't learn from previous errors. So, now I ask, what are the rules for this? Outside references are no-no's, I assume. How 'short' is 'short'? Will I be disqualified for typing too much or too little? It's just really difficult to read between the lines now, and I'm worried that there's some hidden clause that will guarantee loss before I even submit a given piece of writing. I suppose the easy answer is "If you're worried about losing, then don't participate." Honestly, though, I'd like to. I have no problems with losing; It's the 'no chance' feeling that I'd rather not meet with again. Thus, I figured that opening the lanes of communication would be a good idea. There's no ill will, just confusion and caution, I suppose.
Thanks for reading, and preemptive thanks for any possible clarity on the matter.
edit: Not answering the people's concerns and locking these topics is just going to make things worse I'm sure. After all, this is Diablo Fans as I remember, not Sixen's Blog.
Ha. Bagstone.
The best advice I could give you would be to make the next entry (which is writing) unique and interesting, not too short and not too long. Keep in mind those are just guidelines though.
I'm not sure whoever's post you linked is relevant anymore in a writing contest and we aren't going to revisit a past contest.
I agree with you that the contest rules should be a bit clearer stated in the first place. I understand why they want to keep the contests rather relaxed and not be too strict, but adding some general guidelines (a bit more descriptive and clearly visible in the original post) wouldn't be hard and would prevent:
1. A lot of entries that are going to be "disqualified" anyway. Reducing the work of looking through them, and the effort of creating them.
2. Having to answering to questions regarding rules.
3. A lot of the QQ waves that come after from disappointed members who didn't win.
Really I see no reason not to do this.
Edit: This is less relevant to this new writing contest though since it's pretty clear what you should do and figuring out how long/short it should be is kinda up to each his own.
I'm pretty positive that's a PM as you guys always direct people to send PMs instead of writing topics for public viewing. :]
Ha. Bagstone.
Ha. Bagstone.
Edit: Or at least thats where i thought i read it. I know i read it somewhere. Maybe it was in the comments section of the actual contest for Beta key #4.
http://www.diablofans.com/news/947-beta-key-contest-4/page__st__40/
Scroll down until you see the Warner Brother's frog, then go down two posts down to Magistrate's. He has a disclaimer, but that's still an exact quote of the explanation that I read. Not sure if or how it applies to things, but if true (which seems to be the case) then my concerns are still persistent. I suppose I understand a lack of strict rules (Relaxed competitive atmosphere), but it does seem somewhat unnerving that there's no consistency in choice of 'best'. Makes it difficult - if not impossible - to get an idea of how to compete when the definitions of quality adjust from week to week.
Obscure ones at that. Though I can't say I'm disappointed or anything, since I'll be the first to admit that such guidelines are completely fair, and of course note the subjective nature of artistic endeavors.
I see. Well, then thanks very much for your time. I suppose if it indeed wasn't a matter of simply trying to quell complaints, then I have no room for concern. Still, it doesn't help my enthusiasm for the future, but I appreciate the clarity none the less. Thanks.
P.S. Meant to click edit instead of delete. I haven't slept, so hand eye sucks. Sorry.
Judging by the particular language Magistrate used (we can't pick references) I'm not fully convinced this is his opinion. If this were the case, he would have said something along the lines of "I personally don't pick any with references". Why the particular language expressing inability to choose a specific type of entry? After the first winner, which was both lacking captions and was a pop culture reference...
edit: P.S. The 2012 apocalypse is also a pop culture reference.
We try to speak as a team when we can but of course we are our own people as well. We all have differing opinions and that's just about all you'll see from us unless it's strictly regarding forum rules. In the end Sixen has final say since he runs the site and has the keys(he hasn't exercised that right or anything, it's been a democratic process).
So all I can do is try to clear up everyone's concerns. I'll say right now though I don't want to deal with any further straight out complaints or complaint threads, I WILL close them. In the end humor and which one was "best" is subjective and I simply can't change that.
My quote from http://www.diablofans.com/topic/30514-second-caption-contest-discussion/page__p__686023#entry686023
At that time something like this went around:
Now:
Solution: Can Sixen, when there's a new beta key contest, just put the rules in his post regarding the current contest. The OP has legitimate concerns regarding the rules. I will also be pissed off if there were multiple set of "rules" from different Mods/Admin. It won't be that much effort.
Ha. Bagstone.
Anyways this contest now is pretty straight forward. Not sure what we're doing after this but I'll see if I can get a clearer set of rules depending on what we're doing.
Anyways I'm finally going to bed. I think the topic of this thread has been addressed so I'm closing it before bed lest it get out of hand while I sleep.
Thanks all for your concerns and I hope I helped answer some of them.