Not sure if this fits into what you guys are speaking about, but I did some math.
With Astral Presence, Storm Armor w/Gold Rune (-7 AP costs), and Familair (4.5 AP regen/sec), I'm regenerating AP at 19/sec.
With 120 AP pool, I can cast Ray of Frost (22AP/sec) for 40 seconds for 16461.5 damage total over that time.
I can cast Dis exponentially longer, but I would never be sitting casting for 4 minutes straight.
For 40 seconds, I could do 8440 damage total over that time.
RoF does twice as much damage in the 40sec AP lifespan, but after 4 minutes of Disintegrating a monsters face off,
it does 25320 damage total over that time.
So for 'shorter' bursts of channeling, as you put it, I'm going with RoF.
However, I should make mention of RoF being a single target only spell. Disintegrate, according to you guys right?...pierces enemies so those damage numbers I'm reporting...you could do double those or triple those if there 2-3 monsters around. I just don't expect them to always (or even occasionally) be a single file line.
Not sure if this fits into what you guys are speaking about, but I did some math.
With Astral Presence, Storm Armor w/Gold Rune (-7 AP costs), and Familair (4.5 AP regen/sec), I'm regenerating AP at 19/sec.
With 120 AP pool, I can cast Ray of Frost (22AP/sec) for 40 seconds for 16461.5 damage total over that time.
I can cast Dis exponentially longer, but I would never be sitting casting for 4 minutes straight.
For 40 seconds, I could do 8440 damage total over that time.
RoF does twice as much damage in the 40sec AP lifespan, but after 4 minutes of Disintegrating a monsters face off,
it does 25320 damage total over that time.
So for 'shorter' bursts of channeling, as you put it, I'm going with RoF.
However, I should make mention of RoF being a single target only spell. Disintegrate, according to you guys right?...pierces enemies so those damage numbers I'm reporting...you could do double those or triple those if there 2-3 monsters around. I just don't expect them to always (or even occasionally) be a single file line.
My thoughts,
DKR
Disintegrate, used correctly, will hands down always do more damage than Ray of Frost vs anything other than bosses. If you've played Diablo 2 you know how stupidly easy it is to get enemies into a line. Once you've got their attention all you have to do is back off and they'll chase you.... forming into a line.
So my next question, have RoF for single targets, and utilize Dis for mobs? Could Arcan Orb be substituted for mob damage in your opinion? It does great splash/AoE damage
It does great damage. Following my calculation/formula of AP costs/regen amounts & times-
I can cast ArcOrb 12 times, (~once each second) and do 4569.5 damage.
Not sure if this fits into what you guys are speaking about, but I did some math.
With Astral Presence, Storm Armor w/Gold Rune (-7 AP costs), and Familair (4.5 AP regen/sec), I'm regenerating AP at 19/sec.
With 120 AP pool, I can cast Ray of Frost (22AP/sec) for 40 seconds for 16461.5 damage total over that time.
I can cast Dis exponentially longer, but I would never be sitting casting for 4 minutes straight.
For 40 seconds, I could do 8440 damage total over that time.
RoF does twice as much damage in the 40sec AP lifespan, but after 4 minutes of Disintegrating a monsters face off,
it does 25320 damage total over that time.
So for 'shorter' bursts of channeling, as you put it, I'm going with RoF.
However, I should make mention of RoF being a single target only spell. Disintegrate, according to you guys right?...pierces enemies so those damage numbers I'm reporting...you could do double those or triple those if there 2-3 monsters around. I just don't expect them to always (or even occasionally) be a single file line.
My thoughts,
DKR
Disintegrate, used correctly, will hands down always do more damage than Ray of Frost vs anything other than bosses. If you've played Diablo 2 you know how stupidly easy it is to get enemies into a line. Once you've got their attention all you have to do is back off and they'll chase you.... forming into a line.
This isnt D2, the AI is vastly improved, dont expect the same buggy lolol easy targets you got in d2
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"...We few, we happy few, we band of brothers; for he to-day that sheds his blood with me
shall be my brother..."
From what I've seen of it Arcane Orb is pretty sweet. It's harder to compare with Disint than Ray for obvious reasons.
Plus side - You can cast and move, no need to stay in one place (Pretty big)
Negative side - If you have a huge mob of enemies the orb is only going to hit the front of it while Disint would pierce through the entire thing.
Rune Wise -
Alabaster rune for it is silly since it pretty much just turns it into a more expensive version of Disint, and the Obsidian rune is for melee mages. Indigo could be better than Crimson for damage output, it depends on how much 8 yards is. I'm doubtful Golden is worth it.
This isnt D2, the AI is vastly improved, dont expect the same buggy lolol easy targets you got in d2
Lol, the fact of the matter is that enemies will always chase you. If enemies chase you and you run away, by default they must form into a line. Monsters aren't going to have leashes and I doubt they have the AI to dodge and weave as they chase after you.
This isnt D2, the AI is vastly improved, dont expect the same buggy lolol easy targets you got in d2
Lol, the fact of the matter is that enemies will always chase you. If enemies chase you and you run away, by default they must form into a line. Monsters aren't going to have leashes and I doubt they have the AI to dodge and weave as they chase after you.
wasting time setting them up to get disint to work is wasting time
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"...We few, we happy few, we band of brothers; for he to-day that sheds his blood with me
shall be my brother..."
This isnt D2, the AI is vastly improved, dont expect the same buggy lolol easy targets you got in d2
Lol, the fact of the matter is that enemies will always chase you. If enemies chase you and you run away, by default they must form into a line. Monsters aren't going to have leashes and I doubt they have the AI to dodge and weave as they chase after you.
wasting time setting them up to get disint to work is wasting time
Heh, I wasn't aware there was a race. I'm not a Disintegrate fan. I'm simply saying its not hard getting enemies into position to maximize the effectiveness of the spell.
I haven't seen any video or explanation of the targeting type for Arcane Torrent. Does anyone know how Arc Torrent, Meteor, or Blizzard will compare in AoE range/width, and for a more subjective estimate, how Arc Torrent will compare with Disintegrate for ability to deal with a group of creatures? Given that they cost the same, and that continuous use of Torrent should deal more damage than Disint (Disint: 188-234 crimson and ramped up, Arc Torrent: 107-181 * (100% + 120%) = 235-398 crimson, RayoF: 369-434 crimson), this seems like a prudent comparison. Furthermore, in the case of either short bursts or AP stable/AP building scenarios, you can/may have arcane (alabaster) hydras dealing 120%-increased damage to a target (though this is a separate aspect to consider really.)
On a somewhat separate note, it seems that more people like golden familiar than crimson, but if crimson is simply 40% more damage period, then I have trouble seeing the 4.5 AP/sec as superior in net DPS for even a very extended period.
Funny you should say that about RoF and Disintegrate with Arcane Torrent Oneoftheorder because I've been talking about doing those spells for days. I plan on casting Arcane Torrent with Red rune to get the 120% damage, and then Disintegrate while the damage is increased using Red rune because its damage is higher than AT, and I will be casting them both often. RoF is higher than disintegrate but costs more mana, and only hits one target...
A bunch of people are going to be using these 3 spells along with Frost Nova, Diamond Skin, and Energy Armor/Storm Armor.
Video of Arcane Torrent: go to 3 minutes 37 seconds.
There is the issue that we do not know how long it takes Disintegrate to "ramp up" when crimson-runed; if it is a nontrivial portion of that 6 sec debuff duration, the Torrent-woven Disintegrate strategy may not work out to better dps than a sustained Torrent (unless someone already knows what that ramp time is.)
While the possibility exists for a 1:5 torrent:disintegrate weave cycle on the basis of dropping the buff then swapping, I'm pretty sure it won't make sense to do a build that includes RoF as well as any of the other channeled effects. There is the argument of single target (boss/unique) vs multitarget scenarios, but I think that sacrifices too many spells slots. I suspect every (PvE) wizard will want Familiar (crimson) and Mirror Image (crimson), and probably Slow Time (crimson or alabaster) as these are going to be substantial dps boosts on top of whatever your primary sources of damage are. Similarly, I suspect you will want either (golden) Storm or (indigo) Energy Armor, depending on your spell selection/play style for AP endurance (some builds which include golden Signature spells may circumvent the need for either of these by building for some kind of pump/purge strategy, although they would probably benefit from indigo Energy Armor.)
In general, I think you really only need to be concerned w/ 1) having a spell which will be good for single target (even if it is not optimized purely for that), 2) a spell good for multitarget, and 3) a method of endurance/regen. Beyond that, I would think looking for a combination of damage boosts and utility. If you are playing mostly solo, you may have to lean towards utility.
A bunch of people are going to be using these 3 spells along with Frost Nova, Diamond Skin, and Energy Armor/Storm Armor.
I love how you just assume everyone is going to be using your build. Have you even thought of the time it takes Disintegrate to ramp up during that 6 second window of de-buff time you have? I know you haven't thought about the fact you're going to be standing in place to deal damage.
I also know you haven't thought of the possibility that Alabaster runed Disintegrate might actually do more damage than Crimson.... I know it's the only rune I'll be using with it.
Funny you should say that about RoF and Disintegrate with Arcane Torrent Oneoftheorder because I've been talking about doing those spells for days. I plan on casting Arcane Torrent with Red rune to get the 120% damage, and then Disintegrate while the damage is increased using Red rune because its damage is higher than AT, and I will be casting them both often. RoF is higher than disintegrate but costs more mana, and only hits one target...
A bunch of people are going to be using these 3 spells along with Frost Nova, Diamond Skin, and Energy Armor/Storm Armor.
Video of Arcane Torrent: go to 3 minutes 37 seconds.
Funny you should say that about RoF and Disintegrate with Arcane Torrent Oneoftheorder because I've been talking about doing those spells for days. I plan on casting Arcane Torrent with Red rune to get the 120% damage, and then Disintegrate while the damage is increased using Red rune because its damage is higher than AT, and I will be casting them both often. RoF is higher than disintegrate but costs more mana, and only hits one target...
A bunch of people are going to be using these 3 spells along with Frost Nova, Diamond Skin, and Energy Armor/Storm Armor.
Video of Arcane Torrent: go to 3 minutes 37 seconds.
out of the 6 spells you mentioned, I currently only plan to use 1 of them :). I guess I'm not part of that "bunch".
I think your vid misidentified Arcane Torrent. the animation at 3:37 actually looks like Meteor (Indigo) aka Meteor Shower. here's the definition
Meteor Shower
Unleash a volley of 14 smaller meteors that strike for 139 - 189 Fire damage.
I think this is the real Arcane Torrent at 50 seconds. it actually looks like the little spell icon
Omg...... You're right on the Indigo Meteor.... I'm not sure why the clip of the skill plays twice once at normal speed and then again in slow motion. When I first saw this vid I remember being a little confused at this part because the wizard -clearly- isn't channeling. Watching it over and over it looks like back when this was taken it was either only 7 meteors OR it comes down in 2 waves of 7 meteors. There are definitely 2 cast animations though..... Hmmm.
Regardless this is AMAZING. Indigo Meteor is SO viable, those are dropping fast enough to easily be usable to decimate groups! I am SO glad, I wanted to use this Rune/Spell combo so badly.
Edit: trashed youtube links to make post smaller.
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With Astral Presence, Storm Armor w/Gold Rune (-7 AP costs), and Familair (4.5 AP regen/sec), I'm regenerating AP at 19/sec.
With 120 AP pool, I can cast Ray of Frost (22AP/sec) for 40 seconds for 16461.5 damage total over that time.
I can cast Dis exponentially longer, but I would never be sitting casting for 4 minutes straight.
For 40 seconds, I could do 8440 damage total over that time.
RoF does twice as much damage in the 40sec AP lifespan, but after 4 minutes of Disintegrating a monsters face off,
it does 25320 damage total over that time.
So for 'shorter' bursts of channeling, as you put it, I'm going with RoF.
However, I should make mention of RoF being a single target only spell. Disintegrate, according to you guys right?...pierces enemies so those damage numbers I'm reporting...you could do double those or triple those if there 2-3 monsters around. I just don't expect them to always (or even occasionally) be a single file line.
My thoughts,
DKR
Disintegrate, used correctly, will hands down always do more damage than Ray of Frost vs anything other than bosses. If you've played Diablo 2 you know how stupidly easy it is to get enemies into a line. Once you've got their attention all you have to do is back off and they'll chase you.... forming into a line.
So my next question, have RoF for single targets, and utilize Dis for mobs? Could Arcan Orb be substituted for mob damage in your opinion? It does great splash/AoE damage
It does great damage. Following my calculation/formula of AP costs/regen amounts & times-
I can cast ArcOrb 12 times, (~once each second) and do 4569.5 damage.
At 12 seconds, Dis only does 2743 damage.
This isnt D2, the AI is vastly improved, dont expect the same buggy lolol easy targets you got in d2
for he to-day that sheds his blood with me
shall be my brother..."
Plus side - You can cast and move, no need to stay in one place (Pretty big)
Negative side - If you have a huge mob of enemies the orb is only going to hit the front of it while Disint would pierce through the entire thing.
Rune Wise -
Alabaster rune for it is silly since it pretty much just turns it into a more expensive version of Disint, and the Obsidian rune is for melee mages. Indigo could be better than Crimson for damage output, it depends on how much 8 yards is. I'm doubtful Golden is worth it.
Lol, the fact of the matter is that enemies will always chase you. If enemies chase you and you run away, by default they must form into a line. Monsters aren't going to have leashes and I doubt they have the AI to dodge and weave as they chase after you.
for he to-day that sheds his blood with me
shall be my brother..."
Heh, I wasn't aware there was a race. I'm not a Disintegrate fan. I'm simply saying its not hard getting enemies into position to maximize the effectiveness of the spell.
for he to-day that sheds his blood with me
shall be my brother..."
On a somewhat separate note, it seems that more people like golden familiar than crimson, but if crimson is simply 40% more damage period, then I have trouble seeing the 4.5 AP/sec as superior in net DPS for even a very extended period.
Builds I see making the most sense look roughly like:
Arc Tor w/ arc Hydra: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/wizard#kRShgO!ZbV!ZaZZbZ
RayoF w/ Meteor: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/wizard#jPZhgO!bXV!ZZbZbZ
Meteor/Hydra/MMs: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/wizard#ZRPhQO!fXb!bbZZYZ
These are all from the standpoint of a "pure dps" wiz most likely in a group of characters.
A bunch of people are going to be using these 3 spells along with Frost Nova, Diamond Skin, and Energy Armor/Storm Armor.
Video of Arcane Torrent: go to 3 minutes 37 seconds.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqEGfgZuLI8
While the possibility exists for a 1:5 torrent:disintegrate weave cycle on the basis of dropping the buff then swapping, I'm pretty sure it won't make sense to do a build that includes RoF as well as any of the other channeled effects. There is the argument of single target (boss/unique) vs multitarget scenarios, but I think that sacrifices too many spells slots. I suspect every (PvE) wizard will want Familiar (crimson) and Mirror Image (crimson), and probably Slow Time (crimson or alabaster) as these are going to be substantial dps boosts on top of whatever your primary sources of damage are. Similarly, I suspect you will want either (golden) Storm or (indigo) Energy Armor, depending on your spell selection/play style for AP endurance (some builds which include golden Signature spells may circumvent the need for either of these by building for some kind of pump/purge strategy, although they would probably benefit from indigo Energy Armor.)
In general, I think you really only need to be concerned w/ 1) having a spell which will be good for single target (even if it is not optimized purely for that), 2) a spell good for multitarget, and 3) a method of endurance/regen. Beyond that, I would think looking for a combination of damage boosts and utility. If you are playing mostly solo, you may have to lean towards utility.
I love how you just assume everyone is going to be using your build. Have you even thought of the time it takes Disintegrate to ramp up during that 6 second window of de-buff time you have? I know you haven't thought about the fact you're going to be standing in place to deal damage.
I also know you haven't thought of the possibility that Alabaster runed Disintegrate might actually do more damage than Crimson.... I know it's the only rune I'll be using with it.
out of the 6 spells you mentioned, I currently only plan to use 1 of them :). I guess I'm not part of that "bunch".
I think your vid misidentified Arcane Torrent. the animation at 3:37 actually looks like Meteor (Indigo) aka Meteor Shower. here's the definition
I think this is the real Arcane Torrent at 50 seconds. it actually looks like the little spell icon
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwfE5GsYFpg&feature=player_detailpage#t=50s
Omg...... You're right on the Indigo Meteor.... I'm not sure why the clip of the skill plays twice once at normal speed and then again in slow motion. When I first saw this vid I remember being a little confused at this part because the wizard -clearly- isn't channeling. Watching it over and over it looks like back when this was taken it was either only 7 meteors OR it comes down in 2 waves of 7 meteors. There are definitely 2 cast animations though..... Hmmm.
Regardless this is AMAZING. Indigo Meteor is SO viable, those are dropping fast enough to easily be usable to decimate groups! I am SO glad, I wanted to use this Rune/Spell combo so badly.
Edit: trashed youtube links to make post smaller.