At first I thought I agreed with the OP and was probably going to remove shadow power from main pregame build (main pregame build... jesus christ), but I decided to check it out after seeing this thread. I now leaning towards a no hatred generator build with this shadow power with the hatred regen being a must skill along with multi shot discpline generator and a companion hatred generator (i love summons sue me). While its late and this isn't fantastically thought out I do like the leach idea because in D2 I used to absolutely love life leeching on multi shot inches from enemies it only took a single shot for full regen and while it will probably require more than 1 shot for full regen in D3 i have really come around on this skill. All because of this thread... see the OP was constructive.
1. Class is ranged (typically), should be decent at avoiding damage in the first place.
2. 3 seconds is really nothing.
3. So you're low on health, pop SP and you get a decent amount to full health.
4. Using this skill will not allow you to surround yourself with enemies and stay alive, especially not in Inferno. In Inferno, unless you can kill the enemies in 3 seconds or less (which is seriously not likely), you will probably die instantly when those 3 seconds are up. You're better off kiting and playing it safe.
All it really is now is a 'discipline to health' converter. It's a heal that requires you to deal damage in order to provide you with any health. Sure, the Skill Runes add different effects (well, 3 of them do), but they are not all that useful.
Night Bane -- Honestly, if you want to spend Discipline to gain Hatred, you might as well go Preparation[Punishment] and get full Hatred instead of just 45. Blood Moon -- Great, now I'm leeching 300hp per second instead of 200. Cool~ Well of Darkness -- Cheaper heal. Yay? Gloom -- Probably the best Skill Rune attached to this the new Shadow Power. Seems like a PvP ability tho. Will only truly be useful if the heal from Shadow Power isn't keeping you alive. Shadow Glide -- Pretty much worthless, because if you're moving, you're not dealing damage. If you're not dealing damage, you're not healing. If you're not healing, there's no point to this ability. You might as well just use Vault instead.
Edit: I suppose Shadow Glide could be used with Strafe, but you'd only be moving at 105% - 140% normal movement speed.
Personally I'd rather have the old Shadow Power, so that I could burn enemies quicker on a ranged class, instead of an ability that allows me to heal myself quickly for a very short duration.
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Playing a Wizard. Looking for Demon Hunters to play with.
theres already a topic about this, on the front page nonetheless lol. but yes, i dislike the change. ive skipped the skill with the change, but it may become necessary in later difficulties.
PvE (or PvM): There's no reason that you should be standing still while taking damage on a ranged class, you don't need to have this ability to heal you because you can easily kite and deal damage instead of trying to endure the damage by out-healing yourself with Shadow Power. There are plenty of health globes that drop and heal you. If you are struggling so much that you can't kill any monsters to get health globes to drop, then you are already in so much trouble that this ability (3 seconds of it) won't help you very much.
PvP: If someone is trying to kill you, and they see you pop this, you're going to get stunned and it's not going to do you any good. Period.
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Playing a Wizard. Looking for Demon Hunters to play with.
Just did the math and the discipline reduction from Well of Darkness is worthless, because the 10% increased heal from Blood Moon gives more hp per discipline consumption. I really think that Blizzard should remove Skill Runes like this that are rendered irrelevant by other Runes for the same skill. We all know that word of this will get out and there will be NO ONE using Well of Darkness as a result.
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Playing a Wizard. Looking for Demon Hunters to play with.
Also to further expand on what Nastai is saying, the Night Bane aspect is virtually useless as well considering Preparation's Punishment effect restores more (all) Hatred per Discipline too and they have the same cost. The only difference is the new leeching effect of SP which is far less usefull than the old effect imo.
In my build from the previous iteration SP played a big part, and I was not necessarily building around it, but the plan was to have as much up time as possible. Now I'm torn on whether or not the skill will even be in my build, and if it is, its ONLY for having a SECOND hatred regen ability in addition to Preparation.
Also to further expand on what Nastai is saying, the Night Bane aspect is virtually useless as well considering Preparation's Punishment effect restores more (all) Hatred per Discipline too and they have the same cost. The only difference is the new leeching effect of SP which is far less usefull than the old effect imo.
In my build from the previous iteration SP played a big part, and I was not necessarily building around it, but the plan was to have as much up time as possible. Now I'm torn on whether or not the skill will even be in my build, and if it is, its ONLY for having a SECOND hatred regen ability in addition to Preparation.
Just one problem. He was right, and you are wrong. You can only make use out of 1-2 disc abilities, and prep although generates far more hatred wont heal you. Its the difference between having 1 or 2 abilities.
I agree though, I had big plans for the old shadow power.
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One is never hurt by being given additional choices, only by taking them away. A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
Also to further expand on what Nastai is saying, the Night Bane aspect is virtually useless as well considering Preparation's Punishment effect restores more (all) Hatred per Discipline too and they have the same cost. The only difference is the new leeching effect of SP which is far less usefull than the old effect imo.
In my build from the previous iteration SP played a big part, and I was not necessarily building around it, but the plan was to have as much up time as possible. Now I'm torn on whether or not the skill will even be in my build, and if it is, its ONLY for having a SECOND hatred regen ability in addition to Preparation.
Just one problem. He was right, and you are wrong. You can only make use out of 1-2 disc abilities, and prep although generates far more hatred wont heal you. Its the difference between having 1 or 2 abilities.
I agree though, I had big plans for the old shadow power.
Just one problem. I'm right, and you are wrong. My current Demon Hunter build has 4 discipline skills, 1 generator and 1 spender. Also, if you don't run around like a chicken with your head cut off, you shouldn't be getting hit as a DH, Wiz, or WD hence why I would rate preparation better than shadow power for hatred regen.
Just one problem. I'm right, and you are wrong. My current Demon Hunter build has 4 discipline skills, 1 generator and 1 spender. Also, if you don't run around like a chicken with your head cut off, you shouldn't be getting hit as a DH, Wiz, or WD hence why I would rate preparation better than shadow power for hatred regen.
Then your build sucks ass. Maybe I should have clarified that, "any non-shitty build..."
Yah you will never take dmg...lol. NEVER!
This is why we get stuck with the mickey mouse build calculator. so people like you don't make some terrible spec.
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One is never hurt by being given additional choices, only by taking them away. A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
Just one problem. I'm right, and you are wrong. My current Demon Hunter build has 4 discipline skills, 1 generator and 1 spender. Also, if you don't run around like a chicken with your head cut off, you shouldn't be getting hit as a DH, Wiz, or WD hence why I would rate preparation better than shadow power for hatred regen.
Then your build sucks ass. Maybe I should have clarified that, "any non-shitty build..."
Yah you will never take dmg...lol. NEVER!
This is why we get stuck with the mickey mouse build calculator. so people like you don't make some terrible spec.
LOL you're the perfect example of "ignorance is bliss." Have fun sitting in act 2 of nightmare while I'm already starting Inferno. If you don't believe me, we can definitely work something out battletag wise.
If you have more than 1 generator or spender you're wasting slots.
Idk...I've narrowed it down to "trash" and "boss" builds for DH and my trash one is more versatile having both multishot and rapid fire, for different situations. But yeah with all the versatility the passives and rune effects have, its entirely possible to get away with no generators too. Thread talking about the viability of said build:
Also to further expand on what Nastai is saying, the Night Bane aspect is virtually useless as well considering Preparation's Punishment effect restores more (all) Hatred per Discipline too and they have the same cost. The only difference is the new leeching effect of SP which is far less usefull than the old effect imo.
In my build from the previous iteration SP played a big part, and I was not necessarily building around it, but the plan was to have as much up time as possible. Now I'm torn on whether or not the skill will even be in my build, and if it is, its ONLY for having a SECOND hatred regen ability in addition to Preparation.
"Vitually useless"? That is a very subjective use of words and completely your opinion. If you are right then Blizzard will change it. If you are wrong, which I suspect, then they either won't, or they will just balance it.
To quote myself:
...Just one problem. I'm right, and you are wrong. My current Demon Hunter build has 4 discipline skills, 1 generator and 1 spender. Also, if you don't run around like a chicken with your head cut off, you shouldn't be getting hit as a DH, Wiz, or WD hence why I would rate preparation better than shadow power for hatred regen.
I'll quote myself again:
Have you read the info about later difficulties? Have you seen the videos? Remember "YOU WILL DIE!" How can that happen if you never get hit? You will get surrounded, there are teleporting mobs, freezing mobs, charming mobs, stunning mobs and Azmodan knows what else! You WILL get hit! You will need survival skills. There are plenty of threads about this.
Also, I HIGHLY recommend read Azureskys post about no hatred generators. He talks in great length and great detail about how with the right gear Hatred regen can be through the roof. That extra regen you get from Prep might be completely wasted, and don't forget that to get the most out of Prep you have to use it when you have the discipline and zero hatred, otherwise it loses efficiency. In many builds the lower hatred of shadow power would be adequate and the free heal useful. Using 125 hatred every 10 secs with the templar plus over 10 hatred regen possibly just from gear isn't easy.
This is about build synergy, not one skill is better than another.
1. Yes, I didn't incorrect word what I was saying. Its not my opinion either, its a factual statement. I thought I explained it well enough but I guess I need to type the #'s out so theres less confusion. Shadow Power's Night Bane rune effect gives 60 hatred at the cost of 20 (or my build's case, 16) discipline. Preparation's Punishment effect restores ALL of your hatred at the same cost of 20 (or 16) discipline. The sole factor I was comparing the two skills and their rune effect was to determine which is a better hatred regenerator, and Preparation is factually superior in this regard. So yes, in this case, Shadow Power is "virtually useless" to me.
2. Considering I know more about my gaming "skills" than you do, I'd say its fair to say you're making quite the assumption as to what I'll need to survive. And yes, just to humor you, I have read the speculation (in fact, I'm one of the advocates for hoping Inferno punishes players severely), watched that doctored video on "you will die," and no, I don't plan on getting hit much. If there were ladders I would be one of the people towards the top in the HC side.
3. In case you didn't notice, I referenced and provided a link to Azuresky's thread about not using hatred generators THREE posts above yours...
This ability would seem to get much better when using AoE skills on large packs of mobs; 20% of all damage, right? Perhaps combined with cluster arrow, multi shot or piercing rapid fire, it would be very respectable. I presume you could fire off two cluster arrows (50 hatred each) within 3 seconds.
Also consider the fact that in inferno, the Demon Hunter is unlikely to want to get toe to toe with hordes of enemies and will instead prefer (in general) to keep distance. It would therefore seem likely that Demon Hunters will have more difficulty picking up health globes during a fight with many enemies, due to the risk of loosing yet more health. I see this new Shadow Power as an end game ability that allows the DH to heal without having to risk even more health loss getting in close to pick up globes.
Also, multishot can be runed to add discipline for every enemy hit, could work well together perhaps?
Agree with everything you've said. The functionality has definitely changed from being a dps self buff to a utility skill used to increase survivability.
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LOL LAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAME!
1. Class is ranged (typically), should be decent at avoiding damage in the first place.
2. 3 seconds is really nothing.
3. So you're low on health, pop SP and you get a decent amount to full health.
4. Using this skill will not allow you to surround yourself with enemies and stay alive, especially not in Inferno. In Inferno, unless you can kill the enemies in 3 seconds or less (which is seriously not likely), you will probably die instantly when those 3 seconds are up. You're better off kiting and playing it safe.
All it really is now is a 'discipline to health' converter. It's a heal that requires you to deal damage in order to provide you with any health. Sure, the Skill Runes add different effects (well, 3 of them do), but they are not all that useful.
Night Bane -- Honestly, if you want to spend Discipline to gain Hatred, you might as well go Preparation[Punishment] and get full Hatred instead of just 45.
Blood Moon -- Great, now I'm leeching 300hp per second instead of 200. Cool~
Well of Darkness -- Cheaper heal. Yay?
Gloom -- Probably the best Skill Rune attached to this the new Shadow Power. Seems like a PvP ability tho. Will only truly be useful if the heal from Shadow Power isn't keeping you alive.
Shadow Glide -- Pretty much worthless, because if you're moving, you're not dealing damage. If you're not dealing damage, you're not healing. If you're not healing, there's no point to this ability. You might as well just use Vault instead.
Edit: I suppose Shadow Glide could be used with Strafe, but you'd only be moving at 105% - 140% normal movement speed.
Personally I'd rather have the old Shadow Power, so that I could burn enemies quicker on a ranged class, instead of an ability that allows me to heal myself quickly for a very short duration.
http://www.diablofans.com/topic/36041-shadow-power-change/
PvP: If someone is trying to kill you, and they see you pop this, you're going to get stunned and it's not going to do you any good. Period.
In my build from the previous iteration SP played a big part, and I was not necessarily building around it, but the plan was to have as much up time as possible. Now I'm torn on whether or not the skill will even be in my build, and if it is, its ONLY for having a SECOND hatred regen ability in addition to Preparation.
A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
Just one problem. He was right, and you are wrong. You can only make use out of 1-2 disc abilities, and prep although generates far more hatred wont heal you. Its the difference between having 1 or 2 abilities.
I agree though, I had big plans for the old shadow power.
A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
Just one problem. I'm right, and you are wrong. My current Demon Hunter build has 4 discipline skills, 1 generator and 1 spender. Also, if you don't run around like a chicken with your head cut off, you shouldn't be getting hit as a DH, Wiz, or WD hence why I would rate preparation better than shadow power for hatred regen.
Then your build sucks ass. Maybe I should have clarified that, "any non-shitty build..."
Yah you will never take dmg...lol. NEVER!
This is why we get stuck with the mickey mouse build calculator. so people like you don't make some terrible spec.
A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
LOL you're the perfect example of "ignorance is bliss." Have fun sitting in act 2 of nightmare while I'm already starting Inferno. If you don't believe me, we can definitely work something out battletag wise.
Idk...I've narrowed it down to "trash" and "boss" builds for DH and my trash one is more versatile having both multishot and rapid fire, for different situations. But yeah with all the versatility the passives and rune effects have, its entirely possible to get away with no generators too. Thread talking about the viability of said build:
http://www.diablofans.com/topic/34341-no-hatred-generators/
A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
1. Yes, I didn't incorrect word what I was saying. Its not my opinion either, its a factual statement. I thought I explained it well enough but I guess I need to type the #'s out so theres less confusion. Shadow Power's Night Bane rune effect gives 60 hatred at the cost of 20 (or my build's case, 16) discipline. Preparation's Punishment effect restores ALL of your hatred at the same cost of 20 (or 16) discipline. The sole factor I was comparing the two skills and their rune effect was to determine which is a better hatred regenerator, and Preparation is factually superior in this regard. So yes, in this case, Shadow Power is "virtually useless" to me.
2. Considering I know more about my gaming "skills" than you do, I'd say its fair to say you're making quite the assumption as to what I'll need to survive. And yes, just to humor you, I have read the speculation (in fact, I'm one of the advocates for hoping Inferno punishes players severely), watched that doctored video on "you will die," and no, I don't plan on getting hit much. If there were ladders I would be one of the people towards the top in the HC side.
3. In case you didn't notice, I referenced and provided a link to Azuresky's thread about not using hatred generators THREE posts above yours...
Agree with everything you've said. The functionality has definitely changed from being a dps self buff to a utility skill used to increase survivability.