I think the issue is moreso to do with the lack of mid tier loot sinks than it is to do with the items themselves.
No matter how you change the items, each player will still only consume so many items.
If players are generating hundreds of millions of items per day, there's still no way to substantially boost the consumption of items just by making loot
You are considering the fact that all the items that dropped in D2 were Isenharts. For every 20 Green Breast Plates I left on the floor, I would have picked up like, 1-2 useful Uniques, mid level or rarer. Those are better odds than rolling rares that have a 1 in 10000 chance of being something good. As for the Frosties parallel, yes they are dead loot, and there's so high a percentage of dead loot in D3 that it's not even funny anymore. As mentioned, the fact that the legendaries already roll with random stats, and they are even more rare than what they were in D2. They're almost like high runes now.
Yes people who traded in d2 were faster than me, but were that MUCH faster? No, as the gear I found on my own was more than sufficient to farm properly and quickly in my own right. And how can I care what the 'other guy' is doing? If Blizzard still sticks to the fact that people can 'buy items off the AHs' and thus never increase the drop rates, then I would never, ever be able to find the items that I want. Not even close. Like I mentioned in an earlier post, I don't mind the AH as it is a centralised system for us to use when we want to find that 1 or 2 items that we need. But currently, people are just too reliant on it. Countless threads and posts of people saying "I sold this and that for 100million gold!". Since when did Diablo become a high-end, expensive version of Drug Lord?
I am a Blizzard fanboi, and played all their games except for WoW, and I have many friends who are the same, whose teenage years were dominated by games like Warcraft and Diablo 1. Most of them have left the game. People who offered me $300 for a beta account have left the game. Diablo 3 certainly is not a bad game, but it could have been so much more. We all waited so long for it, and the only bitterness I might have is not what others have and how they acquired their stuff, but what the game could and should have been.
how can people still whine on the game being too easy or the loot being sucky?
come on. they nerfed monsters 2 times already. and they will nerf again in the next patch.
the loot doubled since vanilla and legenadaries got a huge boost.
when are you satisfied? when 5 legendaries drop at the same time from a trash mob? seriously.
No pain no gain. work for your reward. i get plenty of rewards. because i've made my runs very effective. i do 100% act3 run in 1h 10mins with 209% native mf (284% with nv5).
when you nerf like this and boost loot droprates. the drops won't feel as valuable. it will just create a new equilibrium where the difficulty is very easy, also due to item-inflation, and where good items has become common items.... what you guys (who whine for better loot) are asking for is a simple nerf of inferno. because better gear = easier difficulty.
shame on you.
The things wrong with D3 have little do with the CHALLENGEEEEE meme and mostly because the loot design suck ass in a game which was supposed to all about loot.
There is no middle, once you hit the end of act 2, welcome to the WALL! you can farm act 2 as much as you'd like but keep in mind, it's about as useful as potion farming.
I totally agree with the OP. Paragon levels was a cool system but after 19 paragon levels of shit loot I have once again quit the game. And to the people defending this game by blood, seriously you can't ever have played Diablo 1 and 2. This game is so shit it's beyond me that Blizzard made it.
Without knowing how many hours into the game you have, how many elites you've killed and your overall farming efficiency, I can't really figure out if you're just complaining to complain or have a legitimate issue. Loot itemization isn't always the best but I do find good loot almost daily. It can be frustrating though so I hear you there.
I dont see how a low posts count makes me wrong in my memory of D2, or my opinion of D3. That's to the point of being insulting. Anyway, to be more objective, I get the point about it being the 30,000th Isenhart's on the floor, but hey guess what? At least it's a set item. Do I even get a 3rd say, Asheara's set item in d3 after 400over hrs? heck i dont even have one.
I didnt bot in d2, and i didnt trade, and it sure didnt take me 400 hrs to gear up 2-3 characters. Again, ask yourself, where would you be without the AH in D3? would you be on the same "power curve" as what I would have been in d2?
As for Alkaizer, how much did he spend on the AH again? Remind me please.
Actually, in D2, if you didn't trade or bot, its very likely you just have exactly what most players have now in D3; or worse. Enough gear to beat the game but not enough for the max builds.
Also, do you really want to see Asheara's drop in inferno? If anything, the drop range in D2 was worse because you could get an Isenhart's X to drop in hell.
without trading/duping/botting in D2, most players would have never even seen(owned) a SOJ.
I dont see how a low posts count makes me wrong in my memory of D2, or my opinion of D3. That's to the point of being insulting. Anyway, to be more objective, I get the point about it being the 30,000th Isenhart's on the floor, but hey guess what? At least it's a set item. Do I even get a 3rd say, Asheara's set item in d3 after 400over hrs? heck i dont even have one.
I didnt bot in d2, and i didnt trade, and it sure didnt take me 400 hrs to gear up 2-3 characters. Again, ask yourself, where would you be without the AH in D3? would you be on the same "power curve" as what I would have been in d2?
As for Alkaizer, how much did he spend on the AH again? Remind me please.
Actually, in D2, if you didn't trade or bot, its very likely you just have exactly what most players have now in D3; or worse. Enough gear to beat the game but not enough for the max builds.
Also, do you really want to see Asheara's drop in inferno? If anything, the drop range in D2 was worse because you could get an Isenhart's X to drop in hell.
without trading/duping/botting in D2, most players would have never even seen(owned) a SOJ.
Oh, yeah, you're talking about me here in particular. Quick anecdote. I played on Mac for all of D2's life span, so muling was out of the question. I also exclusively played SP, so I had no one to trade with. Let me tell you, it's not easy gearing up a conc barb in Hell difficulty in any reasonable time span. I think I spent a month or two before I just gave up, because farming Hell Meph took about 15 minutes on average. I think it was just my build though, conc barbs were notoriously slow at killing. This was also before re-specs were possible.
So anyway, my point is, both games had a wall unless you had some outside resource. And you'd bash your head against that wall hoping for a TC 87 weapon to drop, and you'd likely get nothing. Maybe it's this experience that has prepared me for D3's brutal item grind. People talk about getting "great" items all the time, and I just don't think that's true. I only ever saw that damn Oculus drop for my Sorc but once in all the years I played. How is that so much better? (Your results may differ, and we could say the same for D3, eh?)
But then again, this is an ARPG after all. What else is there other than the grind for items? Bottom line is, game developers have come up with innumerable ways to hook you to their games since the days of D2. On top of this, we're much better at spotting the low-reward, high time-sink design that the ARPG employs.
As I've said, finding better loot won't improve the game play. Because after you've found the better loot and basked in the glory of said loot for a day or two, you're back where you started: repeating the same content, grinding the same monsters, hoping that something EVEN BETTER drops. Except now instead of that drop taking 200 hours, it's going to take 400 hours. Woo!!!
I just don't think as many people like ARPGs anymore.
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No matter how you change the items, each player will still only consume so many items.
If players are generating hundreds of millions of items per day, there's still no way to substantially boost the consumption of items just by making loot
Yes people who traded in d2 were faster than me, but were that MUCH faster? No, as the gear I found on my own was more than sufficient to farm properly and quickly in my own right. And how can I care what the 'other guy' is doing? If Blizzard still sticks to the fact that people can 'buy items off the AHs' and thus never increase the drop rates, then I would never, ever be able to find the items that I want. Not even close. Like I mentioned in an earlier post, I don't mind the AH as it is a centralised system for us to use when we want to find that 1 or 2 items that we need. But currently, people are just too reliant on it. Countless threads and posts of people saying "I sold this and that for 100million gold!". Since when did Diablo become a high-end, expensive version of Drug Lord?
I am a Blizzard fanboi, and played all their games except for WoW, and I have many friends who are the same, whose teenage years were dominated by games like Warcraft and Diablo 1. Most of them have left the game. People who offered me $300 for a beta account have left the game. Diablo 3 certainly is not a bad game, but it could have been so much more. We all waited so long for it, and the only bitterness I might have is not what others have and how they acquired their stuff, but what the game could and should have been.
The things wrong with D3 have little do with the CHALLENGEEEEE meme and mostly because the loot design suck ass in a game which was supposed to all about loot.
Without knowing how many hours into the game you have, how many elites you've killed and your overall farming efficiency, I can't really figure out if you're just complaining to complain or have a legitimate issue. Loot itemization isn't always the best but I do find good loot almost daily. It can be frustrating though so I hear you there.
Actually, in D2, if you didn't trade or bot, its very likely you just have exactly what most players have now in D3; or worse. Enough gear to beat the game but not enough for the max builds.
Also, do you really want to see Asheara's drop in inferno? If anything, the drop range in D2 was worse because you could get an Isenhart's X to drop in hell.
without trading/duping/botting in D2, most players would have never even seen(owned) a SOJ.
Oh, yeah, you're talking about me here in particular. Quick anecdote. I played on Mac for all of D2's life span, so muling was out of the question. I also exclusively played SP, so I had no one to trade with. Let me tell you, it's not easy gearing up a conc barb in Hell difficulty in any reasonable time span. I think I spent a month or two before I just gave up, because farming Hell Meph took about 15 minutes on average. I think it was just my build though, conc barbs were notoriously slow at killing. This was also before re-specs were possible.
So anyway, my point is, both games had a wall unless you had some outside resource. And you'd bash your head against that wall hoping for a TC 87 weapon to drop, and you'd likely get nothing. Maybe it's this experience that has prepared me for D3's brutal item grind. People talk about getting "great" items all the time, and I just don't think that's true. I only ever saw that damn Oculus drop for my Sorc but once in all the years I played. How is that so much better? (Your results may differ, and we could say the same for D3, eh?)
But then again, this is an ARPG after all. What else is there other than the grind for items? Bottom line is, game developers have come up with innumerable ways to hook you to their games since the days of D2. On top of this, we're much better at spotting the low-reward, high time-sink design that the ARPG employs.
As I've said, finding better loot won't improve the game play. Because after you've found the better loot and basked in the glory of said loot for a day or two, you're back where you started: repeating the same content, grinding the same monsters, hoping that something EVEN BETTER drops. Except now instead of that drop taking 200 hours, it's going to take 400 hours. Woo!!!
I just don't think as many people like ARPGs anymore.