The Purpose of BoA, The Recent Changes to Witch Doctors, MannerCookie's HeisenBarb Beta Build

The Purpose of BoA

Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker/ Official Forums)

Main goals:

- Make it so that playing the game is the best way to get the best items. In this scenario, "playing the game" refers to the core mechanic, which is killing monsters. The designers really dig that kill monsters > get loot > kill more monsters > get more loot reward loop, and felt it was being compromised by the ease of trading, particularly for Legendary and Set items. We want those top-tier items to be earned through gameplay. 
- In light of the AH shutting down, still try to limit the negative impact the third-party market has on the game as much as possible. (This goes back to goal #1 and is one of the reasons why the current rules are set up the way they are.)

Greatest hopes? That the new loot model for the majority of players feels rewarding and satisfying -- and natural, too -- and that there's an actual sense of personal progression as you advance from finding Rares to finding Legendaries. An item being BoA ideally won't be a dealbreaker because the loot hunt itself is in a good place (this is where the rewarding/satisfying/natural part comes in). 

Greatest fears? As with anything game design related, the greatest fear is that -- despite your research, your testing, your experience, and your gut -- what you've designed isn't fun for most players and winds up hindering the game more than helping it. We don't believe that will be the case with BoA (and feel it will actually be the opposite), but no one here is infallible.

The Recent Changes to Witch Doctors

A bit of light was given to the recent changes to Witch Doctors in Beta/PTR.

Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker/ Official Forums)

mostly the wd nerfs
Thanks for the follow up! Though it never feels great to see numbers go down, we felt (as well as other players who tested out the WD on Beta and PTR) that the class was a little overturned in the previous PTR/Beta build. This was especially evident in group play. So, we're toning a lot of skills down and will see how that plays out in the next PTR/Beta build. If you're willing to hop on the PTR once the new patch is live and provide us your thoughts, that would definitely be appreciated. 

On that note actually, it's really important to keep in mind that PTR and Beta patches are in no way final and that we're still tuning, tweaking, and adjusting a lot of skill values. We expect that we'll need to make some more changes once this next patch is out and you all get the opportunity to test and share feedback.
for the record there is a few of us that are die hard witch doctor players, we have put together numerous topics with idea and disccsions vs the new changes.

I can actually provide a little more insight on these particular changes.

As we transitioned from the Friends & Family to Closed Beta, all abilities from each class were highly overtuned. Over time, we whittled away at the numbers, and these passes were made by class. This is pretty par for the course in how we approach tuning. The Witch Doctor was the last one we addressed, and that happened to land at a time when we could provide the most detailed patch notes (i.e., these ones).

So no, we don't hate Witch Doctors! They were just next up for a tuning pass and the timing wasn't great in terms of communicating these changes.

Definitely going to go dig through those feedback posts though. Nom nom nom, feedback!

What about the demon hunter posts? Could you at least say yes or no so we at least know we aren't getting ignored, because it definitely seems that way.

Between all of us, we go through all the class forums (and other forums too) for feedback, paying particular attention to threads that are well-formatted and constructive. I try to tackle as much as I can myself, but sometimes I do miss things. That's why we work as a team. =) Grimiku, Vaeflare, and Lylirra all help me catch things I might not have seen otherwise.

No class is being ignored or unheard. Not every change that's asked for will be implemented, of course, but we are here to listen, report, and discuss your feedback with development. Think of us as your liaisons - we pass on as much of your thoughts as we can and make sure your voice is being represented and recognized.


MannerCookie's HeisenBarb Beta Build

MannerCookie has been one of the Barbarian players that has always tried to push new and interesting builds for his chosen class and continues doing so on the Beta servers. Recently he has been teasing a new build. That new build is called HeisenBarb and represents a charge-Barb play that seems to be incredibly efficient and useful on higher difficulties. Check out the video for some awesome gameplay and a thorough explanation of the build.

 

Comments

  • #1 andutakess
    I am not up to speed with the BoA legendaries/sets but are they BOA from the start? can't you trade them at least with the people that you were playing with at the time they dropped or something ?



    I'm asking coz I only play barb/monk and have no real intention of making other classes tbh and what am I supposed to do with all those legendaries/sets for other classes... I used to just give them to my friend or join random games and drop them on the floor...

    really bad decision if you ask me to make them Account bound...
    Last edited by andutakess: 1/20/2014 9:57:20 PM
  • #2 DesmondTiny
    That barb build is EPIC! O_O
  • #3 KillerCactus
    I liked the trading system in d2. Made a game looking for an item, mf-ed while waiting, then traded (if they ever came). Even annie and torch were tradable. D2 trading is the reason I know to type. The need for fast communication was a must, and, with time, i learned how to type at decent speeds. Mavis Beacon is a joke, people should just play d2 to learn how to type :D Anyways, if I find an item, I should do with it whatever I want. I play this game with my bro and 2 other friends. With BoA, we wont be able to help each other with handmedowns or items we dont want. If 3rd parties selling items is the problem (like in d2, which is still a freaken awesome game) then greed is what is holding this game back. Im still buying the 80 dollar collector's edition, BoA or not, just hope it doesnt turn into World of Diablocraft.
  • #4 Laniellin1900


    Quote from andutakess


    I am not up to speed with the BoA legendaries/sets but are they BOA from the start? can't you trade them at least with the people that you were playing with at the time they dropped or something ?



    I'm asking coz I only play barb/monk and have no real intention of making other classes tbh and what am I supposed to do with all those legendaries/sets for other classes... I used to just give them to my friend or join random games and drop them on the floor...

    really bad decision if you ask me to make them Account bound...


    Last I heard, you could trade people that you were partied with at the time of drop for up to 2 hours.
  • #5 lokithor
    Well I'm not going to play if i can't trade. it may sound like a knee-jerk reaction, but I like helping my friends out with stuff i might find while they aren't on.
  • #6 yourgrandma


    Quote from lokithor


    Well I'm not going to play if i can't trade. it may sound like a knee-jerk reaction, but I like helping my friends out with stuff i might find while they aren't on.


    +1 here

    give us the liberty to decide whether we want to trade, gift, or not.okay, not supporting pay-to-win by removing the AH is good for company image. I get it, you said you are sorry, you are redeeming yourselves by removing the AH, you are the good guys again, which is super cool [sarcasm: off], other than that, please let us play the game the way we want to Blizzard!
    without the aspect of trading the game somehow feels incomplete, and I dont wanna lose any friends from FL just because they have been absolutely unlucky and can only go 3 tiers lower. that goes double for casual players.
    this may very well result in a scenario when I have to decide between playing with some of my more casual friends on a much lower (consequently much less rewarding) difficulty and getting the feeling of a total time waste, or not playing with them at all. Now I can lend them some of my stuff and have fun grinding together and preserve maximum efficiency at the same time. come RoS and I get a crippled game experience for my 40 EUR. that dont sound about right, does it?

    anyways I have little to 0 faith in Blizzard's ability to fine tune the item system to the point where regulars and casuals can actually meet, simply because of the fact that it is IMPOSSIBLE. I recon in relatively short time BoA will be lifted due to constant protests, I just pray it will happen before I say f@ck off Blizz, and wipe the game from my HDD.


  • #7 xonsuns
    so... or RMAH or no trade at all and BoA. Really, Blizzard c'mon... D2 was your own game, you don't know why people play it for so long?
    crazy working buids, awesome legendarys and runewords that change your gamestyle, and TRADE. Yes good old fashion trade: offering an item for an item, bargain about price...
  • #8 Glowpipe_


    Quote from DesmondTiny


    That barb build is EPIC! O_O


    Used to be epic you mean. Next beta patch. Guess which build that wont be viable

    And thats the second time i see a video from this dude with Rip RoS on this site now. Isnt this a diablo 3 fan site ?
  • #9 akse


    Quote from andutakess


    I am not up to speed with the BoA legendaries/sets but are they BOA from the start? can't you trade them at least with the people that you were playing with at the time they dropped or something ?



    I'm asking coz I only play barb/monk and have no real intention of making other classes tbh and what am I supposed to do with all those legendaries/sets for other classes... I used to just give them to my friend or join random games and drop them on the floor...

    really bad decision if you ask me to make them Account bound...


    Trade with friends in the same game.

    You also need to salvage legendaries to upgrade legendaries at Mystic. So most of the legendaries you don't need will probably be slavaged.
  • #10 helpme123


    Quote from xonsuns


    so... or RMAH or no trade at all and BoA. Really, Blizzard c'mon... D2 was your own game, you don't know why people play it for so long?
    crazy working buids, awesome legendarys and runewords that change your gamestyle, and TRADE. Yes good old fashion trade: offering an item for an item, bargain about price...


    Actually no. D2's team left long time again. The D3 team is just corporate bot who does not even play their own game. D2 game is very complex and you can do whatever you want with it. For D3, they dictate how you should play the game.
  • #11 Abstract_Chaos
    I felt more forced when it came to building a character in D2. Basically, if you didn't focus all of your stats on Vit and do the bare minimums for gear, you didn't have an "optimal" build, stat-wise. This made a lot of people start over multiple times. You can argue there is your replay-ability, but it was truly a mechanic that just held most players back, and in the end, forced them to allocate points a certain way or be obsolete. Diablo 3 is definitely a game striving to have people express their individuality in character builds. While I don't think it's there yet, I would imagine people should not be so negative about it until they play release themselves. If you really don't want the game, you wouldn't be putting your 2 cents here.


    edit: meant to quote helpme123 above me
    Last edited by Abstract_Chaos: 1/21/2014 1:15:11 PM
  • #12 Abstract_Chaos
    Also, does anyone have a link pointing to details on how BoA is currently supposed to function?

    Personally, I believe it should be something similar to WoW (forgive me for saying that...) and by that I mean it should be BoAonly if you choose to equip it. Perhaps this is not Blizzard's intention. I understand that Legendaries are meant to be salvaged as well, but it still is a little disheartening to know you can't trade them at all.
  • #13 Timesink


    Quote from KillerCactus


    I liked the trading system in d2. Made a game looking for an item, mf-ed while waiting, then traded (if they ever came). Even annie and torch were tradable. D2 trading is the reason I know to type. The need for fast communication was a must, and, with time, i learned how to type at decent speeds. Mavis Beacon is a joke, people should just play d2 to learn how to type :D Anyways, if I find an item, I should do with it whatever I want. I play this game with my bro and 2 other friends. With BoA, we wont be able to help each other with handmedowns or items we dont want. If 3rd parties selling items is the problem (like in d2, which is still a freaken awesome game) then greed is what is holding this game back. Im still buying the 80 dollar collector's edition, BoA or not, just hope it doesnt turn into World of Diablocraft.


    This is why Blizzard can't win. I played D2 for years and years and I absolutely hated the trading system. Thousands of channels and private games. People spamming endlessly. Gold being useless and having to know how many SOJs something was worth. The only people getting gear was by duping or getting crazy lucky. Ugh no thanks.

    If you want trading then it has to be something like the AH. And we all saw how that turned out.

    Personally I'm excited for all good gear being BoA. If you want to trade with your "bros" then play with them. Actually playing the game to get gear sounds awesome to me. Spending all my time in chat channels, dealing with scam artists, etc does not sound awesome. They do have to adjust drop rates to make this a reality but there's enough time between now and Mar 25 for rates to be adjusted.
  • #14 xonsuns


    Quote from Timesink


    This is why Blizzard can't win. I played D2 for years and years and I absolutely hated the trading system. Thousands of channels and private games. People spamming endlessly. Gold being useless and having to know how many SOJs something was worth. The only people getting gear was by duping or getting crazy lucky. Ugh no thanks.

    If you want trading then it has to be something like the AH. And we all saw how that turned out.


    I disagree but everyone has his own likes and dislikes. But i will feel the pain if i get one awesome item that i can't use and can't trade. It can happen, and more often that you think. I can see the reason for not back to the old "partyfortrade", but i dont know.. you have a team of people that works in the sector... get some solution!
    A special "create trade game"? Spam protection that actually works? A way to trade off the games with your contact list on special "trade chatroom"? I dont know.. something new, something protected from spam and botfarmers, something brilliant, something... its DIABLO for god sake!


    Actually no. D2's team left long time again. The D3 team is just corporate bot who does not even play their own game. D2 game is very complex and you can do whatever you want with it. For D3, they dictate how you should play the game.


    I know that the team left (some on Torchlight btw) but the owners still the same, you have your feedback, your database, the sources,... hire some IT D2 freak people...
    I feel the lack of liberty in the game.. its like "oh we give you liberty to this point but Enigma? no no no.. an item that let any pj teleport is too much powerfull". Yes it is, but fuck you thats the funny thing... dream about getting an item that is really powerfull, funny, special...
    In part is the nowadays game fanbase.. lot of crys, lot of trolls, lor of complains, lot of "the xxxxxx class is too much overtune"... the usual crap
  • #15 Abstract_Chaos


    Quote from Timesink




    Quote from KillerCactus


    I liked the trading system in d2. Made a game looking for an item, mf-ed while waiting, then traded (if they ever came). Even annie and torch were tradable. D2 trading is the reason I know to type. The need for fast communication was a must, and, with time, i learned how to type at decent speeds. Mavis Beacon is a joke, people should just play d2 to learn how to type :D Anyways, if I find an item, I should do with it whatever I want. I play this game with my bro and 2 other friends. With BoA, we wont be able to help each other with handmedowns or items we dont want. If 3rd parties selling items is the problem (like in d2, which is still a freaken awesome game) then greed is what is holding this game back. Im still buying the 80 dollar collector's edition, BoA or not, just hope it doesnt turn into World of Diablocraft.


    This is why Blizzard can't win. I played D2 for years and years and I absolutely hated the trading system. Thousands of channels and private games. People spamming endlessly. Gold being useless and having to know how many SOJs something was worth. The only people getting gear was by duping or getting crazy lucky. Ugh no thanks.

    If you want trading then it has to be something like the AH. And we all saw how that turned out.

    Personally I'm excited for all good gear being BoA. If you want to trade with your "bros" then play with them. Actually playing the game to get gear sounds awesome to me. Spending all my time in chat channels, dealing with scam artists, etc does not sound awesome. They do have to adjust drop rates to make this a reality but there's enough time between now and Mar 25 for rates to be adjusted.


    So true. People are so dead set that a 12+ year old model will work so magically and well if directly translated into the game. I always felt you'd wade through spam and non-serious traders, only to find someone who actually flashed your ebotd or cta that you wanted...and then wanted the ultimate price for it. Either that, or they were just teasing you with it and didn't want to trade at all xD

    Still it was pretty much about persistance and time. Diablo 2 was my first online game ever at 11 years old. I had AOL dial up and didn't really know shit about computers. Got curious about online mode so one day, I fired up my (dial-up) AOL service and tried to run D2 in the background and connect online; didn't work. Learning how to troubleshoot, I opened an Internet Explorer window after opening AOL...and Diablo 2 magic stated happening in my life. Now, an ignorant 11 year old me, just took about a year of playing to get a 99 frenzy barb (2 ebotd + enigma + etc) and a ~80 hammerdin (cta + shako + mf gear etc) from knowing nothing about the game and just playing online. So, the people who think D2 was "so complex and required genius"...well lemme tell you...it's not some puzzle lol

    So fun to look back at that annoying SOJ system though and be done with it! Looking with Blizzard and everyone else here to find a new system that works for everyone.
    Last edited by Abstract_Chaos: 1/22/2014 6:14:19 AM
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