Interview Analysis - PvP

Over the next several days, we'll be running articles on this interview with Jay Wilson. We thought that the amount of information would be too much to cram into one article, thus you can expect us to explore a new facet of the video every few days.

We hope you enjoy it.

Article Two - Player vs Player

Take a moment to think back upon Diablo II. Remember PvP?
Remember how horrendously incomplete it was?

Players were left with few goals or aims in PvP, aside from killing the other guy. There were vast amounts of exploits that could be used (PK'ing easily the most notorious of the bunch), leaving PvP feeling rushed and incomplete. Sure, it still fulfilled the function of killing other players, but outside of the feeling of killing some other guy, players had no real reason to play PvP.

It seems the boys at Blizzard are learning from their mistakes, choosing to give PvP much more thought in Diablo III than the previous titles.


Official Blizzard Quote:



We do have plans for PvP but we haven't announced anything yet, so we're not talking about it at this time. But we'll announce something in the not too distant future.

Of course this is not much to go on, but the fact that they're tight lipped about PvP leaves me thinking that something big is planned. What it turns out to be however, it up for debate. These days, most online games both support and encourage PvP through in-game rewards. New weapons in FPS games, decals and portraits in Starcraft II, even customized titles in games like Guild Wars are all some of the ways other games have rewarded players for dominating in PvP. We have to consider though, would any of these work in Diablo III?

It really all depends on how organized PvP is, and what is involves. If PvP simply pits two players against each other, I wouldn't doubt an ante system being incorporated into the game, so players may lay bets on their success. If PvP pits teams or clans against each other, titles or gold would be a suitable reward for dominance. If there are occasional tournaments held by Blizzard or special PvP events, then shiny new weapons and armor would undoubtedly be given to the victor. If Blizzard is to leave players with nothing but bragging rights as their reward, PvP will have a tough time winning over the majority of the PvE demographic. With specific rewards not obtained anywhere else, we may finally see many normally PvE players sticking their feet into the waters of PvP play.

With this in mind, the bridge between PvE and PvP should be clear. In Diablo II, all public games were open to griefers and PKers at all times. To look at other games once more, titles such as World of Warcraft and Guild Wars have safeguards in place to prevent the killing of players who wish to enjoy the PvE game, but still give PvP players their own slice of the game to call their own. Thus, something along the lines of "PvP Zones", or an arena would do Diablo III well.

We can also look at Blizzard's other titles for a hint on where PvP play may be going. As we all know, World of Warcraft is nearly built around PvP play. Of course this model would not work with Diablo III, but as suggested before, we may see smaller versions of raids in the form of clan vs clan play. With Blizzard's intentions of adding clan support to Battle Net 2.0 in the future, this may become a reality.

All in all though, we still hardly know anything about what is being planned for PvP. All we have at this point is speculation, but at least we can rest easily knowing that there are more ambitious plans for PvP than nothing but a hostile button.

Comments

  • #1 saintchet
    awesome! can not wait to hear more info about their plans. I really do hope they find a way to bridge pvp and pve.
    -saintchet
  • #2 Grimster
    To state that World of Warcraft is built around PvP is quite incorrect imho.

    World of Warcraft were not even supposed to have PvP from the start. PvP became a reality because Blizzard realised that World of Warcraft would probably appeal to a bigger audience if they stuck PvP into it.

    I would rather say that World of Warcraft is built around PvE with PvP elements in it. :)
  • #3 leftfoot
    I quite liked the RuneScape duel system. Where players would put up stakes for their duel and winner takes all.
  • #4 Solfreki
    Betting.. titles.. gold.. items..prestige..tournaments...arenas..clan wars.. aaaaaaaaah i want it all! :D
  • #5 valeo
    Bit of a waste of time doing an article on basically nothing but good try nonetheless.
  • #6 Zhar
    Quote from valeo

    Bit of a waste of time doing an article on basically nothing but good try nonetheless.


    Trust me man, I realized this and it was frustrating as fuck to write.
    But I made it my bitch.
    It knows its place now.
  • #7 Exlegis
    Quote from Zhar

    Quote from valeo

    Bit of a waste of time doing an article on basically nothing but good try nonetheless.


    Trust me man, I realized this and it was frustrating as fuck to write.
    But I made it my bitch.
    It knows its place now.

    hahaha awesome! :D
  • #8 Draco080
    Quote from leftfoot

    I quite liked the RuneScape duel system. Where players would put up stakes for their duel and winner takes all.

    Haha I liked that type of dueling too.
  • #9 Mephisto's Lament
    Good article considering you have close to nothing to run on.
  • #10 afi44
    I wonder if they will have pvp only rooms that allow double the players of pve games.
  • #11 apples
    i dont like pvp zones or w/e you said about having both parties agree to pvp.

    pk'ers used bugs in code/hacks or something to kill you, and its not the fault of the rules in place, but of the design of the game itself. you fix these bugs and there would be no pk.

    i still think that having both people agree on it makes the whole experience dull. its like having 3 lives in hardcore mode or something.

    maybe this should have been written by an active pvp. but since u had only one measly sentence to go on...lol gl.
  • #12 valeo
    Quote from Zhar

    Quote from valeo

    Bit of a waste of time doing an article on basically nothing but good try nonetheless.


    Trust me man, I realized this and it was frustrating as fuck to write.
    But I made it my bitch.
    It knows its place now.


    Ah, I know how it is mate. No new Diablo 3 info so we have to create it for ourselves!
  • #13 Magistrate

    i still think that having both people agree on it makes the whole experience dull. its like having 3 lives in hardcore mode or something.


    That's basically what was meant for DII, unless you're now advocating PKing, which it looked like you weren't earlier in your post. Or something.

    ...


    Turtles.
  • #14 zeroRooter
    Not expecting much, some type of honour system, like in wow. maybe an arena system too... i was never big on pvping in games like this
  • #15 apples
    Quote from Magistrate


    i still think that having both people agree on it makes the whole experience dull. its like having 3 lives in hardcore mode or something.


    That's basically what was meant for DII, unless you're now advocating PKing, which it looked like you weren't earlier in your post. Or something.

    ...


    Turtles.
    i dislike the idea of having to have two people agree to terms for a fight, thats just stupid. might as well take turns hitting each other too while we are at it.
  • #16 Ryukenden
    not too distant future = blizzcon 2010
  • #17 nickm83
    "There were vast amounts of exploits that could be used (PK'ing easily the most notorious of the bunch)"

    Exploit...according to dictionary.com anyhow.

    –noun
    a striking or notable deed; feat; spirited or heroic act: the exploits of Alexander the Great.

    You are right...PK'ing people is a notable, heroic feat, since its something not all D2 players can accomplish.

    However I don't think thats what you were getting at, it seems more like you are trying to bash pk down to the level of tppk and aimhacks, most likely because it was a feat you were unable to peform with success consistently...

    As far as I could see, there are 4 groups of PK'ers on D2. One group being the predators, those that know the game well. They know how to build, and more importantly, how to properly play their character in a variety of situations. On par with them is another tier of players who are equally knowledgeable and skilled at the game. These players simply chose not to pk for whatever reason, but can accept the fact that its part of the game, and often get a good laugh out of a pk attempt on them backfiring. If your one of these players you shouldn't a problem with pkers at all, considering most pk attempts on pubs are done by a single pker.

    You then also have the wannabe pk'ers that just suck. They have a lame cookie cutter build, have no clue how to play it, and often cut corners while building their character. These are the ones that fail pk attempts consistently and then accuse people of hacking. On par with this group are the people who are either new to the game or just horrible players. They'd get smoked by anyone halfway decent even if they were allowed to juv. Ironically these are the people that say things like PK/PVP in d2 is bad in all ways because they don't like(understand how to do well in) it.

    "In Diablo II, all public games were open to griefers and PKers at all times."

    PK is the best way to deal with griefers. Let's run a little experiment. I'll meet you on D2 and you can PK me in a pub baal run and we'll see how its dealt with. Afterwards, you can meet me on dungeons and dragons online, where there is no pk, and we can run a quest together. However, I get to grief you. I gurantee you won't be putting PK'ing and griefing on the same level after that.

    "All in all though, we still hardly know anything about what is being planned for PvP. All we have at this point is speculation, but at least we can rest easily knowing that there are more ambitious plans for PvP than nothing but a hostile button. "

    I agree with you here. It would be nice to see some more meaningful modes of pvp. However I hope blizzard is smart enough to realize the hostile button is what made D2 a cult classic to many people. After all it does have the reputation of being the best gank and run rpg ever. At the very least just have 2 servers, one for those who want to pk, and one for those who don't.
  • #18 apples
    d2 pvp is still filled with glitches and bugs, albeit some bugs have made pvp a little more technical, for better or worse, more so than blizzard intended to at the beginning. things like wsg and wsm have added additional layers of skill to the game, however desynching and the old fof glitch in 1.09 have made the game almost unbearable at times.
  • #19 shieldmaiden
    I like the tension of being attacked at any moment by other players, that being said its not particularly fun when said players level is fiercely unbalanced with your own
    this problem should be easily remedied by options implemented for the host of the game
    pvp on or off toggle
    level restrictions for the game

    i dont foresee they're being any problems if the host is given the option to allow or disallow pvp before beginning a game
  • #20 VladDracul
    Quote from shieldmaiden

    I like the tension of being attacked at any moment by other players, that being said its not particularly fun when said players level is fiercely unbalanced with your own
    this problem should be easily remedied by options implemented for the host of the game
    pvp on or off toggle
    level restrictions for the game

    i dont foresee they're being any problems if the host is given the option to allow or disallow pvp before beginning a game

    You are aware that there was level restrictions in D2 right? The big problem with PK wasn't and isn't that the other guy is much higher level then you since I can make a level 9 and smash more then half of the level 99's. The problem is they are simply better then you at playing their character and knowing the field, which isn't their fault or the systems fault that you guys fail to be good at a certain aspect of the game.
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