I think I read a smidgen about this in someone's post, but... I forgot where it was.
Manners in Diablo: I think that letting everyone say whatever they want makes me respect kind, honorable, and dignified players more by contrast. If everyone can just curse you off at any moment, it makes the people that are more respectful that much better in my eyes.
That's...somehow related, right? This thread has become an amalgam of a lot of issues.
You are right, when I play Diablo I don't honestly get on and go "Yea, time to go grieve people and torment them!" Even tho it appears as what I like best haha. I see how people react to me when I am being nice or sarcastic and if I deem them to be not honorable or dignified then I give it right back and often times they can't handle it. That's another thing Diablo doesn't need unless it be made an option is a chat filter. The Diablo community is so great and random and odd from other communites because it is open, the Devs and Blizzard really didn't stick their hands in Diablo which is why I am a bit worried for this one cause it is so "controlled" now.
You know, as irony has it, gear in WoW is pretty important, if not, more so then Diablo.
This is probably due to a fact in WoW, all your spells or attacks hit no matter what. Take a mage vs mage duel, who wins? The guy with better gear, no matter what.(Unless extreme retardation lol) Due to the fact that a fireball will 100% hit(Unless resisted, in which case, you're unlucky)
In diablo, sorc vs sorc duel, who wins? The guy who can dodge and aim better, which I consider skill. You can be undergeared and still beat him if you dodge better and hit him more.
EXACTLY! They fail to realise that in WoW characters are auto name locked and for the most part it is hit for hit. In diablo you have to actually dodge, aim. You are limited with movement in WoW to the point where it doesn't matter. In WoW if you fight 7 of the same tier geared characters vs your one...who is gonna win? Do you even have a slightest chance of winning? Now let's put that up in Diablo...7 top tiered characters vs your one..if you play your cards right you can win and have a decent chance at it actually....but oh wait WoW takes sooo much skill.
I appreciate that the conversation has now seemed to have switched to something more constructive.
However I just wanted to point out one thing.
A lot of people the last few pages have been talking about high end pvp rewards for winning duels and that kind of stuff
To put it simply, that quite simply cannot work in Diablo. It just flat out can't. Like i've pointed out many times, Diablo is a hack-and-slash game, and that is actually something which the developers are proud of. In one of the panels, I remember them saying that D3 would not support any interface addons, and that they are designing the game so that it can be played with a mouse alone if a person wanted to play like that.
You can't have "pvp rewards" in a diablo game, because pvp in diablo is not based on fighting skill. The skill comes in when customizing your stat points and gear. Gear gear gear.
pvp rewards works in WoW because WoW pvp is highly dependant on skill.
I just stopped reading there...WoW has more skill in the PvP department then Diablo....HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Dude you have obviously never and I mean NEVER PvP'd in Diablo. If you believe that an auto name locked, auto hitting game like WoW requires skill and you feel that a aiming require game doesn't then you need to get checked on.
Gear...haha...come play on east and I will buy charsie bought gear from act 1 normal and I will smoke your "top tier" character anyday buddy....WoW better then d2 in PvP...ha!
And honestly if they are gonna add arenas and rankings in Diablo 3 I want the option to do 1v7 because the people in this thread are your competition and just like in Diablo 2 1v7 is the way to go unless you are bad.
That was one of the things that I thought about that could be really cool, like you put up an item and whoever wins the duel gets it..that'd settle a lot of feuds
Except if the D3 community for PvP is anything like the community for D2 is you won't ever see anyone in the arena. Just alot of trash talk and they never back it up. Should be able to put up accounts vs accounts since the odds of any trash talker actually following through and going to an arena are slim to none you may as well bet the house.
I still can't believe some people prefer spending 3 hours trying to trade some gear, instead of spending those 3 hours killing monsters. just a hypothetical question: if in 3 hours of PvE you got decent pieces of gear(to trade or use), would you rather play PvE for those 3 hours or would you rather spend 3 hours on trade channels?
btw, good post, Ferret.
Id rather spend the 3 hours doing trade channel. The 3 hours spent on PvM are redundant and are something that has already been done to death, trading in the channels is also redundant but you have a greater % of actually getting the item you want and if you get bored of trading you can take a quick break and go PvP. Yea you can stop PvM and go PvP for a quick break too but I see little reason to resume PvM since in the long run your odds of finding that rare item are little to none opposed to spending a little effort in the trade channel haggling which in itself is a skill and can be quiet enjoyable if one was good at it.
Damn it, We are talking about BoE !!! not Switch and not PvP !!!
Please someone explain me WHAT PvP does with BoE !!! NOTHING !!!!!!!!
BoE is great for many reason and it's already confirmed so stop arguing meaningless arguments please. I will start to think few peoples here are brainless.
Um I clearly was talking about BoE, I was comparing it to Weapon switch which was just taken out of Diablo 3. If people can't comprehend how to hit W how are they expected to comprehend not being able to trade an item that is BoE?
BoE effects PvP cause now you no longer can put on any item on your character and test it out, you cannot free willingly trade for any item and trade it later down the road, it harms experimentation which is a part of PvP. It doesn't hinder PvP that drastically and I feel it aids the community economy greater then it hinders PvP so I have little issue with it, but to deny that it doesn't effect PvP is just being blind.
PvP players who reckon that BoP/BoE will break PvP are basically admitting that gear is more important that skill, thereby nullifying any reason to PvP in the first place. I also can't quiet grasp the concept of BoE supposedly supporting cookie cutter builds. If WoW is any indication, BoE will exist primarily on gear that actually has prefixes or suffixes that are very desireable as opposed to gear without BoE. Therefore, people would actually want BoE items. Learn your class and theory-craft until you figure out what you need to improve your character, that way when you see something, you can make a decision. After all, another comment I read in this topic suggested PvP players generally know their classes better than PvE players. Prove it, and I don't mean this to irritate PvPers, but to actually encourage you guys that much more hardcore if you say you are. The more pride you put towards statements like that, the less you should have to worry about picking out the wrong equipment.
If the BoE items really are that powerful then yes you have a point, it won't matter what it is that you just traded for since it is most likely better then what you got. However it could give let's say +10 to min damage on BoE but my weapon does +15 to cold damage and I find out that my cold damage is better in the long run over the min damage and I should of gotten a +10 max damage weapon instead of the min damage. Now I am not really screwed and I can still PvP just as good as before, I just have to play a little smarter which there is nothing wrong with that. BoE doesn't favor experimentation as well as the d2 system did, having said that it does a way greater part for the trading and community so it is tolerable as there are 2 sides to Diablo and that is PvM AND PvP, they both need to be good to make Diablo great.
I have to say, great post. Feels like it bitch slapped the whole thread and the mood changed haha.
I really have no idea what's going on here, but whatever it is, I'm going to hope that all of you guys can be trusted to stay within the limits you know you should.
Haha im trying Seth.
BoE does remove and hinder PvP in ways that I think even Blizzard and PvM'ers could understand. They are essentially saying with BoE that you should know and understand the BoE system and how to use it. Now they removed weapon switch cause it was to "confusing" and it was something that only some people could use correctly apparently, I am wondering how they expect a person who couldn't comprehend hitting W to switch weapons and what good that could benefit them to comprehend putting on an item and not being able to trade it. Then again I am wondering how they expect those people to even install the game..but that is another issue. Point being Blizzard wants this game as simple and easy to play as possible, so if they are removing such systems as weapon switch why is it so that this much more complex system gets to stay?
It does hinder PvP cause now I can't really try gear on if it is BoE, I can trade for it, and find out it sucks then bam I just got ripped off cause this item sucks, were as now I can trade, equip...try it...don't like it...meh trade it away, now I am forced to sell it for probably 1/3 of its value in gold and be screwed. This also helps cookie cutter builds happen cause noone will experiment nearly as much with gear if it is BoE and would likely look online for the "best" build and go with that.
take first-person-shooters as a quick example: everyone has the same gear (in most FPS games), so it comes down to skill. how do you acquire more skill? you play the game more. as Michal (and italofoca, if i'm not mistaken) has stated, skill in diablo is almost non-existent, it mostly comes down to items. So......how do you acquire more items? guess what.....that's right, you play the game more. Now...spending 4 hours in a trade chat room trying to convince some guy to go along with a trade that might or not be fair....to me, that's not playing the game.
WOAH WOAH WOAH, now I don't want to be banned or infracted here cause trust me buddy it's really hard for me to hold back on such comments.
Tell you what tell me the realm and I will make a garbage geared character LOWER level then you and I will whoop you in PvP cause I have more SKILL in PvP then you do. Then if you could please somehow explain to me what just happend after I 5-0 you with a lower level inferior geared character and tell me somehow that there is no skill in Diablo PvP.
A good PvPer understands the deep depth that is Diablo PvP the PvMer's only understand their ear dropping and gold taken.
Don't worry Maka even if Blizzard removed every aspect of Diablo beside being butt-buddies with everyone you would still get attacked and grieved. It has been apart of Diablo since first day of Diablo 1 and the fanbase will make sure it is live in Diablo 3.
Diablo simply is not that entertaining enough to be a pure PvM game and without the system of randomness created from the community with PK and haggling over items it just falls into line as being a generic Hack n Slash game and in my opinion Diablo relys on the community to make the game what it is and not Blizzard, that is why Diablo 1 and 2 have been great and why I fear Diablo 3 has a chance of falling short cause Blizzard is sticking their hands all over everything trying to play god.
We have been over this a billion and a half times. Noone has the grounds including Blizzard to say what Diablo is mainly. There is a PvE following and there is a PvP following. There is not 1 over the other.
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You are right, when I play Diablo I don't honestly get on and go "Yea, time to go grieve people and torment them!" Even tho it appears as what I like best haha. I see how people react to me when I am being nice or sarcastic and if I deem them to be not honorable or dignified then I give it right back and often times they can't handle it. That's another thing Diablo doesn't need unless it be made an option is a chat filter. The Diablo community is so great and random and odd from other communites because it is open, the Devs and Blizzard really didn't stick their hands in Diablo which is why I am a bit worried for this one cause it is so "controlled" now.
EXACTLY! They fail to realise that in WoW characters are auto name locked and for the most part it is hit for hit. In diablo you have to actually dodge, aim. You are limited with movement in WoW to the point where it doesn't matter. In WoW if you fight 7 of the same tier geared characters vs your one...who is gonna win? Do you even have a slightest chance of winning? Now let's put that up in Diablo...7 top tiered characters vs your one..if you play your cards right you can win and have a decent chance at it actually....but oh wait WoW takes sooo much skill.
I just stopped reading there...WoW has more skill in the PvP department then Diablo....HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Dude you have obviously never and I mean NEVER PvP'd in Diablo. If you believe that an auto name locked, auto hitting game like WoW requires skill and you feel that a aiming require game doesn't then you need to get checked on.
Gear...haha...come play on east and I will buy charsie bought gear from act 1 normal and I will smoke your "top tier" character anyday buddy....WoW better then d2 in PvP...ha!
And honestly if they are gonna add arenas and rankings in Diablo 3 I want the option to do 1v7 because the people in this thread are your competition and just like in Diablo 2 1v7 is the way to go unless you are bad.
Except if the D3 community for PvP is anything like the community for D2 is you won't ever see anyone in the arena. Just alot of trash talk and they never back it up. Should be able to put up accounts vs accounts since the odds of any trash talker actually following through and going to an arena are slim to none you may as well bet the house.
Id rather spend the 3 hours doing trade channel. The 3 hours spent on PvM are redundant and are something that has already been done to death, trading in the channels is also redundant but you have a greater % of actually getting the item you want and if you get bored of trading you can take a quick break and go PvP. Yea you can stop PvM and go PvP for a quick break too but I see little reason to resume PvM since in the long run your odds of finding that rare item are little to none opposed to spending a little effort in the trade channel haggling which in itself is a skill and can be quiet enjoyable if one was good at it.
Um I clearly was talking about BoE, I was comparing it to Weapon switch which was just taken out of Diablo 3. If people can't comprehend how to hit W how are they expected to comprehend not being able to trade an item that is BoE?
BoE effects PvP cause now you no longer can put on any item on your character and test it out, you cannot free willingly trade for any item and trade it later down the road, it harms experimentation which is a part of PvP. It doesn't hinder PvP that drastically and I feel it aids the community economy greater then it hinders PvP so I have little issue with it, but to deny that it doesn't effect PvP is just being blind.
If the BoE items really are that powerful then yes you have a point, it won't matter what it is that you just traded for since it is most likely better then what you got. However it could give let's say +10 to min damage on BoE but my weapon does +15 to cold damage and I find out that my cold damage is better in the long run over the min damage and I should of gotten a +10 max damage weapon instead of the min damage. Now I am not really screwed and I can still PvP just as good as before, I just have to play a little smarter which there is nothing wrong with that. BoE doesn't favor experimentation as well as the d2 system did, having said that it does a way greater part for the trading and community so it is tolerable as there are 2 sides to Diablo and that is PvM AND PvP, they both need to be good to make Diablo great.
I have to say, great post. Feels like it bitch slapped the whole thread and the mood changed haha.
Haha im trying Seth.
BoE does remove and hinder PvP in ways that I think even Blizzard and PvM'ers could understand. They are essentially saying with BoE that you should know and understand the BoE system and how to use it. Now they removed weapon switch cause it was to "confusing" and it was something that only some people could use correctly apparently, I am wondering how they expect a person who couldn't comprehend hitting W to switch weapons and what good that could benefit them to comprehend putting on an item and not being able to trade it. Then again I am wondering how they expect those people to even install the game..but that is another issue. Point being Blizzard wants this game as simple and easy to play as possible, so if they are removing such systems as weapon switch why is it so that this much more complex system gets to stay?
It does hinder PvP cause now I can't really try gear on if it is BoE, I can trade for it, and find out it sucks then bam I just got ripped off cause this item sucks, were as now I can trade, equip...try it...don't like it...meh trade it away, now I am forced to sell it for probably 1/3 of its value in gold and be screwed. This also helps cookie cutter builds happen cause noone will experiment nearly as much with gear if it is BoE and would likely look online for the "best" build and go with that.
Tell you what tell me the realm and I will make a garbage geared character LOWER level then you and I will whoop you in PvP cause I have more SKILL in PvP then you do. Then if you could please somehow explain to me what just happend after I 5-0 you with a lower level inferior geared character and tell me somehow that there is no skill in Diablo PvP.
A good PvPer understands the deep depth that is Diablo PvP the PvMer's only understand their ear dropping and gold taken.
Diablo simply is not that entertaining enough to be a pure PvM game and without the system of randomness created from the community with PK and haggling over items it just falls into line as being a generic Hack n Slash game and in my opinion Diablo relys on the community to make the game what it is and not Blizzard, that is why Diablo 1 and 2 have been great and why I fear Diablo 3 has a chance of falling short cause Blizzard is sticking their hands all over everything trying to play god.