Everybody agrees that Diablo 3 should be released when the game is finished and ready to be released. Nobody wants a bugged game for $60 or more. Just because a person complains that the game isn't out yet doesn't mean that they don't want a polished product when they purchase it.
Here's the issue - why isn't it done yet??? The game was announced (not started development which happened much earlier, but announced) in 2008. The overwhelming majority of the few people lucky enough to have access to the closed beta see a very polished game. People heard from Blizzard that the game was going to be released by Nov/Dec 2011. With this information in hand, the community expects that now that we are actually in the revised release date window of "early 2012" that we should have a release date given Blizzard stated lead time of 8 weeks give or take from release date announcement to release date. The community is on edge because they've already seen one release date window go by the wayside and there is no real indication from Blizzard that this one will be any different. If anything, all of the Blizzard employees conveniently dropping the “early” from “early 2012” (like Zarhym yesterday) are giving quite the opposite indication. Given where we are on the calendar, we either need Blizzard to give us something far more specfic to believe in for a release date time frame or just officially disappoint us again and delay the game further. "We will release it when it's done" is becoming a euphemism for "we're just not meeting our own expectations of being able to get our jobs done or meet realistic deadlines". People who miss deadlines (especially when they’re setting the deadlines for themselves) get criticized for it. That’s a fact of life everywhere in the real world (not just for Blizzard and Diablo 3). You can't miss the first deadline, show little indication that you're not about to miss another deadline, and expect that everyone who's anticipation you've built up will just sit, twiddle their thumbs, be patient, and quiet. This is 2012. The monster they created needs to be fed. That's the bottom line. Deal with it, Blizzard, Deal with it, Blizzard marks.
Here's the part of Zarhym's blue posts today that I find the most amusing:
"We told you at the end of last year we wouldn't be shipping the game until 2012. That didn't mean we'd have the final details ready to announce by January of this year."
1) Another Blizzard employee conveniently omitting the adjective "early" from the "early 2012" release timetable. Are we all supposed to believe that this was an accident?
2) If the game is releasing "early 2012" and Blizzard games typically allows 8 weeks from the release date announcement to the release date, then shouldn't Blizzard have the final details ready to announce by January (or at least by the end of January)?
The entirety of Zarhym's posts seems to sugest that we shouldn't take almost anything Blizzard says seriously unless they are officially announcing something. The bottom line is when your community doesn't get the communication from Blizzard that it finds reasonable to expect, it starts trying to read between the lines. If they don't like it, communicate more often as to where things are and have that communication be consistent, specific, and honest. Every time I read a Blizzard employee say "2012" instead of "early 2012" when they KNOW exactly how much their comments are being dissected, it makes me want to pull my hair out. Zarhym whines on and on about the way people seem to be hanging on every word and then loses the "early" from "early 2012". You've just lost your credibility, Zarhym.
All I know is next week is mid-January which puts the release date probably early to mid March if it were to be announced then with the letter from Jay Wilson and it sure seems like it won't be announce in tandem with it. Sooner or later, all of this talk about making sure the game is ready starts to read more like they can't make up their minds on important decisions. You said "early 2012". Well, Blizzard - it's early 2012. Let's see if Jay's got the sack to either be more specific with the time frame for release than "early 2012" or announce a delay. It certainly seems like it is time for one or the other.
If I remember right from my order, Amazon eats it if Blizzard jumps the price.
yep
I believe that Amazon's price guarantee is that they guarantee that you won't pay more than the price you order at if the price goes down on Amazon. It says nothing of what happens if the price goes up.
"Pre-order Price Guarantee! Order now and if the Amazon.com price decreases between your order time and the end of the day of the release date, you'll receive the lowest price."
I'm going to say it will be $100. My reasoning? I am sure Blizz would of told the retailers the price by now if it wasn't already correct. But I wouldn't care if they moved it to $120.
I'd like to think Blizzard would have told customers by now if the price wasn't going to be $100. After all, the retailer just has to adjust the cost of the product on their systems and charge the customers accordingly. The customer actually has to decide whether or not to pre-order the standard or CE based on the price of the CE. I suppose Blizzard could argue that the customer will have plenty of time to do that once they firm up the price on the CE (since they'd likely firm it up no late than the day of the release day announcement). That works so long as the standard edition doesn't fall into short supply though I highly doubt a shortage of estimated standard edition copies for release day would materialize.
I'd also theorize that the entire reason Blizzard didn't set the price of the CE when they announced it was because they wanted to be able to see how the CE was received (and pre-ordered at the unofficial price point) before they firmed up the price. My guess is they probably had a hand in setting the $100 price (though not publicly) with the understanding that they could adjust it up or down based on the reaction to the product.
It's a little bit silly to me that the CE doesn't have an official price at this late date. It's not like changes to game mechanics or polish that are what's holding back the release date announcement are actually holding up setting a price for the CE. It's probably just their plan to announce the release date and the CE price together. Not the most convenient strategy by Blizzard for us hardcore Diablo fans, but then again Blizzard has a way of showing us from time to time that it's definitely not about all us.
Amazon is only "out" because they dont want to preorder more than they think they will get. Remember there's a chance they only have an "estimate" of how many they will be getting, close to release they will open up more (like they did with Wotlk, cata, and sc2) when blizzard gives them a finite number.
I get what you're saying, but whether they know how many they'll be getting or they're only estimating it, they've already sold whatever that number is weeks in advance of a release date announcement (much less the release date). Even the estimate would be a guideline established at least in part (if not entirely) by Amazon's correspondence with Blizzard, correct? Amazon loses a sale every time someone goes to their site to buy the CE, can't, and orders it elsewhere. With that in mind, wouldn't Amazon contact Blizzard to see if it could up its pre-order "estimate"? If Amazon can't open the item up to more pre-orders, doesn't that indicate that Blizzard can't guarantee Amazon more than they've already estimated that they can at present? It all leads me to believe that demand exceeds (estimated) supply at this point and that a price increase could be a distinct possibility from an economic standpoint.
If enough people have pre-ordered the CE that Amazon might very well be out of what they have to sell well in advance of anyone even knowing when the game is coming out, wouldn't Blizzard raise the price? Supply <-> Demand. They will probably only be able to make so many CEs for this "global launch" release day. I have to think that an increase is a possibility. Sure people who've preordered would be irked, but how many would cancel?? After all, Blizzard didn't have anything to do with setting the $100 price point. I suppose they could agree that it's a fair price, but they'd basically be letting the retailers set the price for them, wouldn't they? I don't want a price increase on my pre-order. I just wonder if it will make business sense for Blizzard.
I guess I'd also be interested in any fact-based history on this type of thing that forum users could supply. This could help determine if the price is likely to change.
With what appears to be high demand for Diablo 3's Collector's Edition, I'd like to get a read on what forum users think the price will be. $100 is basically just a placeholder until they set a firm price so I'm asking what you think the price will be and what is the most you'd be willing to pay.
Last one was November so mid-February seems right. If 1Q 2012 release is going to happen, a release date announcement around the end of this month or early February at the latest (before conference call) would make sense.
Bashiok only said that they’d be sharing the system changes they’ve been working on shortly before or with the next beta patch. To me, that doesn’t necessarily have to mean that they will patch the beta to reflect the system changes so that those changes can be tested. It only means that they will share the info on system changes in that time frame. They could conceivably share their “final decision” (I know, oxymoron in Blizzardland – I digress) on the runestone system and drop the next beta patch with unrelated changes in the same time frame. In fact, I think that’s exactly what’s likely here. Otherwise, wouldn’t it make more sense to only share the information about large game system change together with the patch if the purpose of the patch is to test the change in the beta?
Bashiok is on record that runestones are the only major game mechanic left to be substantially rehashed (paraphrasing Bashiok here of course). If this hasn’t changed, I’d say there’s still hope that the “early 2012” release window hasn’t changed. After all, if they announce the runestone system formally and the beta content doesn’t carry into a part of the game where runestones are going to be tested, then the “large game system changes” don’t necessarily affect the release window. I don’t think we should assume that the release window (now specified as “1Q 2012″ according to Bashiok’s new blue post) has changed until they come out and officially announce it has changed or it simply gets too late to see it as a realistic possibility. I don't see how "we're shooting for 1Q 2012" can be spun any other way but positively. It is, in fact, more specific than "early 2012". Whatever they're time frame is it's always not set in stone until a formal release date is announced (and even then, I guess it could still be altered). I'm not discouraged by "shooting for" - this quote by Bashiok is more than we knew a couple of hours ago.
And the Anti Real-Money-in-Games law in Korea was brought up in November and the Korea trouble started December, in my eyes this could be seen as strong evidence that they are not related
9/22/11 - Blizzard's Mike Morhaime and others fly to Korea.
If Bashiok's referring to the fact that he's about to give another typically ambiguous statement, then at least he’s right about that...
Anyway, the fact that the game won't be out after the decision is rendered doesn't prove anything. We all know this to be a fact. They delayed the game in September. Does Bashiok really think that if the game or even a release date announcement doesn’t happen shortly after a decision gets made that the community will just turn around and say: “Well, I guess it wasn’t the Korea thing after all.” Unfortunately for Blizzard, their handling of this has basically painted them into a corner where virtually no likely future turn of events (aside from – gasp – an even lengthier delay than we’ve already endured) could ever prove that the Korea rating wasn’t linked to the release date delay. There are two things that would have proved it in the first place though:
1) Blizzard having given the community a specific and believable reason(s) for the delay as soon as it was announced. Sadly, Blizzard didn’t do that. Saying “it’s not done”, “doesn’t meet our quality standard”, or “needs more polish, fine tuning” blah blah whatever the hell they said doesn’t tell anybody anything. When all you’re giving us is generalities and double talk, we’re going to draw our own reasonable conclusions based on what we know. That’s how most of us have come to the conclusion that Korea and the delay are related. You could have stopped us. You didn’t.
2) Announce a release date that wouldn’t be possible if the Korean GRB doesn’t cooperate. At this point, even this ship might have sailed already. Let’s face it, sooner or later (and I’m still betting on sooner believe it or not), the Korean GRB is going to make a decision on the game. Blizzard is going to have an idea of how close the GRB is to its decision based on the information the GRB is asking for and the communication they have with the GRB, so any release date they give now will probably be given either after the GRB decision or with fairly certain knowledge of when that decision is going to be made and what the decision is likely to be. What I’m saying is had Blizzard announced weeks ago that the game was coming out a few weeks from today and today we were still waiting on the rating, telling me that the rating wasn’t the reason for the delay might pass the smell test.
Doesn’t it tell everyone all they need to know that the tight-lipped Blizzard bunch doesn’t say much of anything about anything most of the time, but as soon as someone says “Korea” and “delay” in the same sentence, Bashiok or some other blue is trying to get out in front of it and denies it?? Where there is smoke, there’s fire.
Just give up the release date and all will be forgotten. Just cut the cord, give it up, and then we can get back to the business of giving this game the hype it so richly deserves even if its developers deserve less these days.
Bashiok @ January 3rd, 2012 at 9:13am: "we'll have our anniversary celebration kicking off early this week."
This just in, Bashiok - Monday and Tuesday are the early days of the week. Wednesday is the middle day. Thursday and Friday are the late days. Saturday and Sunday are the weekend. Tuesday’s almost over. Now, when do you plan on starting this massive letdown of a celebration you've been hyping again??? I'm begging these people to stop using this ridiculously cryptic language to describe everything particularly things don't appear to be of any major importance to the new game. It serves no purpose. Just be honest and specific. Apparently too much to ask...
Big or small a bug is a bug and needs to be squashed. Who knows if it is isolated or a bigger issue that might cause a bigger problem with items later on in the game. Good find and video.
For Blizzard reps to act agitated that the community keeps up with talking about conspiracy theories and tries to predict the release date or even the announcement of a release date is really comical to me. I mean, really - WHAT DO YOU EXPECT?? You announce that the release target is 2011 at one point and here it is the end of 2011 and you don't even have a release date much less the actual release of the game. You've since given us this "early 2012" time frame and now this guy doesn't even really seem to want to attach the "early" tag to the 2012 release date time frame. All this and NEVER do they EVER give us a specific reason(s) for the delays. In addition, the beta pool seems so small that many of those who would at least like to participate in the beta and help in getting the game released have little to no chance of having that opportunity to do so. It is really just this simple no matter what anyone at Blizzard wants to believe - JUST COMMUNICATE!!! If you want the conspiracy theories to stop, just get off your high horse and be straightforward with your audience. I know that would show that you don't take those of us who are anxious for the game and will buy it whenever it is released for granted, but last time I checked that wouldn't be such a bad thing, would it?? If the game's as close to release quality as you say that it is and Korea really isn't the reason for the delays, being upfront and describing the situation in much more detail has little downside. The bottom line is that at this point the longer the community is all the dark, it's a lose-lose for both the community and Blizzard. Too bad Blizzard doesn't seem to see it that way.
Don't get snippy. Don't come across with an aggrevated tone no matter what question is asked or how it's asked. We're the ones who have every right to be perturbed about all this to say the least. We've waited YEARS for this. Not you, Blizzard.
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Here's the issue - why isn't it done yet??? The game was announced (not started development which happened much earlier, but announced) in 2008. The overwhelming majority of the few people lucky enough to have access to the closed beta see a very polished game. People heard from Blizzard that the game was going to be released by Nov/Dec 2011. With this information in hand, the community expects that now that we are actually in the revised release date window of "early 2012" that we should have a release date given Blizzard stated lead time of 8 weeks give or take from release date announcement to release date. The community is on edge because they've already seen one release date window go by the wayside and there is no real indication from Blizzard that this one will be any different. If anything, all of the Blizzard employees conveniently dropping the “early” from “early 2012” (like Zarhym yesterday) are giving quite the opposite indication. Given where we are on the calendar, we either need Blizzard to give us something far more specfic to believe in for a release date time frame or just officially disappoint us again and delay the game further. "We will release it when it's done" is becoming a euphemism for "we're just not meeting our own expectations of being able to get our jobs done or meet realistic deadlines". People who miss deadlines (especially when they’re setting the deadlines for themselves) get criticized for it. That’s a fact of life everywhere in the real world (not just for Blizzard and Diablo 3). You can't miss the first deadline, show little indication that you're not about to miss another deadline, and expect that everyone who's anticipation you've built up will just sit, twiddle their thumbs, be patient, and quiet. This is 2012. The monster they created needs to be fed. That's the bottom line. Deal with it, Blizzard, Deal with it, Blizzard marks.
"We told you at the end of last year we wouldn't be shipping the game until 2012. That didn't mean we'd have the final details ready to announce by January of this year."
1) Another Blizzard employee conveniently omitting the adjective "early" from the "early 2012" release timetable. Are we all supposed to believe that this was an accident?
2) If the game is releasing "early 2012" and Blizzard games typically allows 8 weeks from the release date announcement to the release date, then shouldn't Blizzard have the final details ready to announce by January (or at least by the end of January)?
The entirety of Zarhym's posts seems to sugest that we shouldn't take almost anything Blizzard says seriously unless they are officially announcing something. The bottom line is when your community doesn't get the communication from Blizzard that it finds reasonable to expect, it starts trying to read between the lines. If they don't like it, communicate more often as to where things are and have that communication be consistent, specific, and honest. Every time I read a Blizzard employee say "2012" instead of "early 2012" when they KNOW exactly how much their comments are being dissected, it makes me want to pull my hair out. Zarhym whines on and on about the way people seem to be hanging on every word and then loses the "early" from "early 2012". You've just lost your credibility, Zarhym.
All I know is next week is mid-January which puts the release date probably early to mid March if it were to be announced then with the letter from Jay Wilson and it sure seems like it won't be announce in tandem with it. Sooner or later, all of this talk about making sure the game is ready starts to read more like they can't make up their minds on important decisions. You said "early 2012". Well, Blizzard - it's early 2012. Let's see if Jay's got the sack to either be more specific with the time frame for release than "early 2012" or announce a delay. It certainly seems like it is time for one or the other.
I believe that Amazon's price guarantee is that they guarantee that you won't pay more than the price you order at if the price goes down on Amazon. It says nothing of what happens if the price goes up.
"Pre-order Price Guarantee! Order now and if the Amazon.com price decreases between your order time and the end of the day of the release date, you'll receive the lowest price."
I'd like to think Blizzard would have told customers by now if the price wasn't going to be $100. After all, the retailer just has to adjust the cost of the product on their systems and charge the customers accordingly. The customer actually has to decide whether or not to pre-order the standard or CE based on the price of the CE. I suppose Blizzard could argue that the customer will have plenty of time to do that once they firm up the price on the CE (since they'd likely firm it up no late than the day of the release day announcement). That works so long as the standard edition doesn't fall into short supply though I highly doubt a shortage of estimated standard edition copies for release day would materialize.
I'd also theorize that the entire reason Blizzard didn't set the price of the CE when they announced it was because they wanted to be able to see how the CE was received (and pre-ordered at the unofficial price point) before they firmed up the price. My guess is they probably had a hand in setting the $100 price (though not publicly) with the understanding that they could adjust it up or down based on the reaction to the product.
It's a little bit silly to me that the CE doesn't have an official price at this late date. It's not like changes to game mechanics or polish that are what's holding back the release date announcement are actually holding up setting a price for the CE. It's probably just their plan to announce the release date and the CE price together. Not the most convenient strategy by Blizzard for us hardcore Diablo fans, but then again Blizzard has a way of showing us from time to time that it's definitely not about all us.
I get what you're saying, but whether they know how many they'll be getting or they're only estimating it, they've already sold whatever that number is weeks in advance of a release date announcement (much less the release date). Even the estimate would be a guideline established at least in part (if not entirely) by Amazon's correspondence with Blizzard, correct? Amazon loses a sale every time someone goes to their site to buy the CE, can't, and orders it elsewhere. With that in mind, wouldn't Amazon contact Blizzard to see if it could up its pre-order "estimate"? If Amazon can't open the item up to more pre-orders, doesn't that indicate that Blizzard can't guarantee Amazon more than they've already estimated that they can at present? It all leads me to believe that demand exceeds (estimated) supply at this point and that a price increase could be a distinct possibility from an economic standpoint.
I guess I'd also be interested in any fact-based history on this type of thing that forum users could supply. This could help determine if the price is likely to change.
Thanks all.
Last one was November so mid-February seems right. If 1Q 2012 release is going to happen, a release date announcement around the end of this month or early February at the latest (before conference call) would make sense.
Bashiok is on record that runestones are the only major game mechanic left to be substantially rehashed (paraphrasing Bashiok here of course). If this hasn’t changed, I’d say there’s still hope that the “early 2012” release window hasn’t changed. After all, if they announce the runestone system formally and the beta content doesn’t carry into a part of the game where runestones are going to be tested, then the “large game system changes” don’t necessarily affect the release window. I don’t think we should assume that the release window (now specified as “1Q 2012″ according to Bashiok’s new blue post) has changed until they come out and officially announce it has changed or it simply gets too late to see it as a realistic possibility. I don't see how "we're shooting for 1Q 2012" can be spun any other way but positively. It is, in fact, more specific than "early 2012". Whatever they're time frame is it's always not set in stone until a formal release date is announced (and even then, I guess it could still be altered). I'm not discouraged by "shooting for" - this quote by Bashiok is more than we knew a couple of hours ago.
9/22/11 - Blizzard's Mike Morhaime and others fly to Korea.
9/23/11 - The delay is announced.
You were saying??
If Bashiok's referring to the fact that he's about to give another typically ambiguous statement, then at least he’s right about that...
Anyway, the fact that the game won't be out after the decision is rendered doesn't prove anything. We all know this to be a fact. They delayed the game in September. Does Bashiok really think that if the game or even a release date announcement doesn’t happen shortly after a decision gets made that the community will just turn around and say: “Well, I guess it wasn’t the Korea thing after all.” Unfortunately for Blizzard, their handling of this has basically painted them into a corner where virtually no likely future turn of events (aside from – gasp – an even lengthier delay than we’ve already endured) could ever prove that the Korea rating wasn’t linked to the release date delay. There are two things that would have proved it in the first place though:
1) Blizzard having given the community a specific and believable reason(s) for the delay as soon as it was announced. Sadly, Blizzard didn’t do that. Saying “it’s not done”, “doesn’t meet our quality standard”, or “needs more polish, fine tuning” blah blah whatever the hell they said doesn’t tell anybody anything. When all you’re giving us is generalities and double talk, we’re going to draw our own reasonable conclusions based on what we know. That’s how most of us have come to the conclusion that Korea and the delay are related. You could have stopped us. You didn’t.
2) Announce a release date that wouldn’t be possible if the Korean GRB doesn’t cooperate. At this point, even this ship might have sailed already. Let’s face it, sooner or later (and I’m still betting on sooner believe it or not), the Korean GRB is going to make a decision on the game. Blizzard is going to have an idea of how close the GRB is to its decision based on the information the GRB is asking for and the communication they have with the GRB, so any release date they give now will probably be given either after the GRB decision or with fairly certain knowledge of when that decision is going to be made and what the decision is likely to be. What I’m saying is had Blizzard announced weeks ago that the game was coming out a few weeks from today and today we were still waiting on the rating, telling me that the rating wasn’t the reason for the delay might pass the smell test.
Doesn’t it tell everyone all they need to know that the tight-lipped Blizzard bunch doesn’t say much of anything about anything most of the time, but as soon as someone says “Korea” and “delay” in the same sentence, Bashiok or some other blue is trying to get out in front of it and denies it?? Where there is smoke, there’s fire.
Just give up the release date and all will be forgotten. Just cut the cord, give it up, and then we can get back to the business of giving this game the hype it so richly deserves even if its developers deserve less these days.
Isn't that Imperius' weapon (Solarion) in Tyreal's hand in the edited out portion of the video?? That's a "little something fun"...
This just in, Bashiok - Monday and Tuesday are the early days of the week. Wednesday is the middle day. Thursday and Friday are the late days. Saturday and Sunday are the weekend. Tuesday’s almost over. Now, when do you plan on starting this massive letdown of a celebration you've been hyping again???
I'm begging these people to stop using this ridiculously cryptic language to describe everything particularly things don't appear to be of any major importance to the new game. It serves no purpose. Just be honest and specific. Apparently too much to ask...
Don't get snippy. Don't come across with an aggrevated tone no matter what question is asked or how it's asked. We're the ones who have every right to be perturbed about all this to say the least. We've waited YEARS for this. Not you, Blizzard.