I cant afford to have 3 offensive skills on my bindings, e.i. Hungering Arrow, Frost Arrow and Impale, because I would not survive for long. Not because im glass canon but because I need SS and Prep due to my low damage output relative to glass cannon builds.
Im triple-screwed by this patch.
You do know you can have up to 6 abilities on your bars, right? And honestly, you only need two defensive abilities anyway. If you have an offensive slow (IE. Frost Arrow / Entangling Shot), you dont need Caltrops; unless you're doing Istaku or whatever. SS / Prep is pretty much all you need to keep yourself alive 95% of the time.
@Moshrooms- Using an example of being a top 10 US WoW player means just about piss all here in Diablo. Cool, you killed a boss a nanosecond before 25 other guilds did. Heres your cookie. You also relied on 24 other people to not screw up (or 9 if you were in a 10 man guild), and most likely found your "Best build and BiS items" on Elitistjerks.com. I raided "hardcore" in the top 250 World for almost 7 years, but I dont bring that into an argument about a completely different game. It all boils down to the ability to adapt and overcome. If you cant do that, then you should probably go back to playing WoW full time. At least there you know that even if your class gets nerfed, you can still hit the same buttons and do exactly the same thing you were doing before, with a slight decrease in your damage / healing (or TPS if you were a tank).
Hm, Lightning Ball also hits the same target multiple times, it only lacks the 3% heal aspect.
Does it travel faster so that it wasn't considered to be a problem, or was the 3% heal actually problematic for them?
I'm pretty sure the damage is lower because the actual hit box for the projectile is smaller than NTs. Smaller hit box means less hits on multiple (or single) targets.
My problem with this is, my friends wizards and WDs were doing just as much damage as I was with NT... so wheres there nerfs? Why do we have our dmg more than halved when it was on par with others
This is not true. like now they might be doing more damage but before it was sick how fast dh's could kill a boss compared to ur average wizard. And I am saying this cause I started out with wizard got bored on belial/act3 start and rerolled dh and when I got to belial I basicly killed him in under half the time my wizard took to get him down to 5%
It technically wasnt on par... It takes me a full 15-30 seconds to empty a Hate bar, which meant about 20 NT casts. 20 NT shots, ticking 2-4x on a target is definiately more damage than a Wiz throwing out what? Three? Four casts? Then going back to their AP generator?
Ok yes, DH can kill bosses faster but since when were bosses the main part of this game? As an example my friends wizard is using piercing arcane orb and is able to crit 250k with it, that's double what I crit! With a bit of AP regen on crit to he rarely hits AP issues before a pack dies, so he hits twice as hard as me with a just as spammable ability but my ability hit twice on most mobs making me crit 125k x2 while he got 250k x1.. Sounds pretty even to me?
You're also not taking into account that most DHs also run Hungering Arrow for boss fights, which also hits pretty hard depending on your gear level. So while you're friend is regenning his AP, you're smashing 60k + Hungerings into a target whilst regenning your Hatred for more NT damage. High AS + NT = more hits on a target with a large hit box (Ex. Belial). If you were only getting two hits on him with NT then your AS was pretty low. I can NORMALLY get 3 ticks, 2 of which will crit. Given your example of 125k per crit, and lets say... 30k non crit, you're still looking at 270k damage in a single NT. Assuming the same numbers and also assuming you get off say 10 NTs before moving or swapping to a Hate generator, you're looking at almost 3 million damage in what? 15 seconds? Thats not even factoring in Hungering Arrow damage. i do agree that the IAS nerf COMBINED with the NT nerf is going to hurt us a bit, but thats why you shouldnt just do what everyone else does simply because "LOL its OP". Play the class and try out different combinations and you can avoid or at least work around some of the nerfs that will inevietably come out.
My problem with this is, my friends wizards and WDs were doing just as much damage as I was with NT... so wheres there nerfs? Why do we have our dmg more than halved when it was on par with others
It technically wasnt on par... It takes me a full 15-30 seconds to empty a Hate bar, which meant about 20 NT casts. 20 NT shots, ticking 2-4x on a target is definiately more damage than a Wiz throwing out what? Three? Four casts? Then going back to their AP generator?
So what do we do now? our top dps ability is nerfed.
It certainly makes Impale more viable. Probably have to drop a defensive ability for Multi-Shot, or Rune into Overpenetration for multiple target damage. As soon as the servers come back up I'm going to give this build a shot.
I suppose you could also run the old build with Frost Arrow / Hungering instead of a Impale / Multi-Shot / Entangling combo, but I think Multi with Suppression Fire might actually work out to be a little better for us. On decently sized enemy packs, you can regen a ton of Discipline, which means more Smore Screens.. Dunno.. Seems logical to me.
Yea I'm aware of the issues with Legendary stat / Damage budgeting and the pending buffs, which wont be retroactive.. I'll just continue farming the further acts and unload it on the AH.. Hopefully I'll get something decent for it. lol.
Only reason why I asked was it seemed at first glance like a fairly decent filler piece for a fresh 60, though with the drops I've been getting today, I'll just settle for selling it.
I stopped at '540ish dmg', in inferno 2 handers can be 1k dmg NO PROBLEM. Since a WD is not a DH, the xbow is a 2hander for you, hence lost dmg from no off hand. 700 dmg 1handers in inferno drop fairly often and for me...tend to be salvaged.
When it comes to weapons DPS>ALL...stats can look nice but all that really counts on a weapon is ..
A: The Damage
B: The socket (whos gonna pass all that crit dmg)
Now if you find a slightly low dps 1h (700) or 2h (1k) but they have a socket AND bonus crit dmg...then you are in buisness because the crit dmg starts to really build.
IMO, keep farming, you aint nothin yet.
Plus you should be farming on your DH...hands down. Get to act 3, figure out wtf a "bunker seige run" is and enjoy!
Heh, thanks for the input. I do farm on my DH, and its by far my main toon. Hopefully I'll be further into Act 3 within the week. Anyway, thanks a bunch.
While running Butcher / Magda inferno farms on my DH, I landed a legendary Xbow, Pus Spitter. Stat wise, it seems fairly in line with what I've read WDs are looking for... 540ish dps, 140 int, 4% Poison Damage 13% AS, and 40% Crit Damage.. I'm fairly new to the WD class, so forgive the question if it sounds rather noobish, however any input (aside from silly trolls :P) will be greatly appreciated. My WD just broke into 60, and I'm working on Inferno Act 1 (I'm progressed into Act 3 on my DH, and Monk). Thanks for the time.
My gear isnt amazing since I'm only progressed about mid way through Act 2 inferno, but I can still pump out 35k dps without SS. Personally, If my math is right, once you get up around ~25-30% crit, SS' benefit diminishes DRASTICALLY. At that point, Shock Collar's damage becomes a pretty substantial portion of your dps. Also, the healing from NT and Shadow Power is just absurd. I can go from 1% back to full in a matter of seconds, I used to run Caltrops / HA, but after getting used to this build, I probably wont go back.
I started Act 1 inferno with ~30k health, 4k armor, about 8.5k dps and 40%ish dodge. I pretty much steamrolled Act 1, albeit I already have two other toons progressed into Act 2, so that probably helped a bit. The only problem I see with 5x NV Butcher runs is that 99.9% of the time I get shafted with gear that A. No one would use if they had half a brain, B. Would be simply amazing if it had that ONE stat in place of another that make it completely worthless for me. or C. Are level 55-57 blues.
/rant off.
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You do know you can have up to 6 abilities on your bars, right? And honestly, you only need two defensive abilities anyway. If you have an offensive slow (IE. Frost Arrow / Entangling Shot), you dont need Caltrops; unless you're doing Istaku or whatever. SS / Prep is pretty much all you need to keep yourself alive 95% of the time.
@Moshrooms- Using an example of being a top 10 US WoW player means just about piss all here in Diablo. Cool, you killed a boss a nanosecond before 25 other guilds did. Heres your cookie. You also relied on 24 other people to not screw up (or 9 if you were in a 10 man guild), and most likely found your "Best build and BiS items" on Elitistjerks.com. I raided "hardcore" in the top 250 World for almost 7 years, but I dont bring that into an argument about a completely different game. It all boils down to the ability to adapt and overcome. If you cant do that, then you should probably go back to playing WoW full time. At least there you know that even if your class gets nerfed, you can still hit the same buttons and do exactly the same thing you were doing before, with a slight decrease in your damage / healing (or TPS if you were a tank).
I'm pretty sure the damage is lower because the actual hit box for the projectile is smaller than NTs. Smaller hit box means less hits on multiple (or single) targets.
You're also not taking into account that most DHs also run Hungering Arrow for boss fights, which also hits pretty hard depending on your gear level. So while you're friend is regenning his AP, you're smashing 60k + Hungerings into a target whilst regenning your Hatred for more NT damage. High AS + NT = more hits on a target with a large hit box (Ex. Belial). If you were only getting two hits on him with NT then your AS was pretty low. I can NORMALLY get 3 ticks, 2 of which will crit. Given your example of 125k per crit, and lets say... 30k non crit, you're still looking at 270k damage in a single NT. Assuming the same numbers and also assuming you get off say 10 NTs before moving or swapping to a Hate generator, you're looking at almost 3 million damage in what? 15 seconds? Thats not even factoring in Hungering Arrow damage. i do agree that the IAS nerf COMBINED with the NT nerf is going to hurt us a bit, but thats why you shouldnt just do what everyone else does simply because "LOL its OP". Play the class and try out different combinations and you can avoid or at least work around some of the nerfs that will inevietably come out.
It technically wasnt on par... It takes me a full 15-30 seconds to empty a Hate bar, which meant about 20 NT casts. 20 NT shots, ticking 2-4x on a target is definiately more damage than a Wiz throwing out what? Three? Four casts? Then going back to their AP generator?
It certainly makes Impale more viable. Probably have to drop a defensive ability for Multi-Shot, or Rune into Overpenetration for multiple target damage. As soon as the servers come back up I'm going to give this build a shot.
Old build:
http://us.battle.net...jXgV!YeT!ZcYZYc
Post NT Nerf build:
http://us.battle.net...jXQV!YeT!ZcYZbc
I suppose you could also run the old build with Frost Arrow / Hungering instead of a Impale / Multi-Shot / Entangling combo, but I think Multi with Suppression Fire might actually work out to be a little better for us. On decently sized enemy packs, you can regen a ton of Discipline, which means more Smore Screens.. Dunno.. Seems logical to me.
Only reason why I asked was it seemed at first glance like a fairly decent filler piece for a fresh 60, though with the drops I've been getting today, I'll just settle for selling it.
Heh, thanks for the input. I do farm on my DH, and its by far my main toon. Hopefully I'll be further into Act 3 within the week. Anyway, thanks a bunch.
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/demon-hunter#bRXgVj!Yec!ZcZYcY
My gear isnt amazing since I'm only progressed about mid way through Act 2 inferno, but I can still pump out 35k dps without SS. Personally, If my math is right, once you get up around ~25-30% crit, SS' benefit diminishes DRASTICALLY. At that point, Shock Collar's damage becomes a pretty substantial portion of your dps. Also, the healing from NT and Shadow Power is just absurd. I can go from 1% back to full in a matter of seconds, I used to run Caltrops / HA, but after getting used to this build, I probably wont go back.
/rant off.