There is no point with this debate. We went through the same argument several months before, and the conclusion is that real competitive players have a rather different standards than "competitive" players who sets up arbitrary rules and call anyone who don't follow those imaginary rules to be cheating. As in any competitive (e-)sport, anything tournament legal is not cheating. Blizzard obviously found things people called "exploits" legal, so it is not cheating, end of story.
P.S. Even if Blizzard fixed all those "exploits", none of you here who call others cheating will have any shot at the leader board what-so-ever. Serious runner will simply find other efficient methods. Your mentality prevents you from doing the same, and goes with it your chance of glory. I know it sounds harsh, but that's the reality.
"Chance of glory"
Oh brother... Diablo 3 doesn't take skill, it requires the ability to play without sleep. It requires a person to be a 100% gambling addict and someone that wants to do nothing but play one game all day for 15-20 hours a day. I would know i was a top player in D2 and during the first 6 months of POE.
Stop acting like it takes skill to be good at D3 or any rpg. You simply figure out the best way to do something and play ten times more than everyone else.
I agree that we should have gone through the campaign at least once. Oh well i'm doing it anyway. The season mechanic is a fail, it doesn't feel like a new start just a bunch of tools hitting 70 in 3 hours and doing exactly what they were doing on standard.
With that said understand even if played the right way, through campaign and then through adventure up to para 200+ there are players that could do that in a very short time anyway.
Even in a superior game like Path of Exile leveling to 85+ through three difficulties and maps all the best guys get there in like 3 days.
PoEs ladders are better because they actually add something new to the game but ultimately neither should be seen as a competition for 99.9% of the playerbase.
Played WW/Hota Hybrid, Wep Throw, 2H Rend, Frenzy Tank (release).
Post: Barb
Playing WW (wind shear), Hota/Stun build, Boulder Toss spec,
I love the Barb and even after the Wrath changes hes still easily the best class imo. WW wind shear is amazing and words can't describe how insane Boulder toss is... can't wait for March 25th.
Imo the people that abandoned the barb are scrubs and were only a Barb because infinite Wrath was broken. Ive been a barb when we did nothing but Frenzy tank with a shield on release and Ill be a barb until they delete the class.
That's awesome. Honestly i've never been able to play barb past like a couple levels. Always felt clunky to me in comparison to Monk. Witch Doctor was always a good friend of mine though, even if he is super squishy and has that annoying squat. Why oh why cant he just stand straight up like a normal person?
I love how different the Barb and the Monk are. imo those are my number 1 and 2 classes in the game atm. They both play completely different from one another. It's very similar to the Barb and Sin in D2. I love when i can roll a melee class and they aren't copies of one another. Barbs all big, slow and powerful and the Monk is all flash and speed... its awesome.
As for the WD... Man, I don't know. I really hope Blizz plans on adding a legit minion class to the game because as cool as the WD is he still feels like a Caster/Pet druid from D2... its not the same, we need a real minion master class.
It took me 8-9 hours on T3 as a WW barb. I actually killed every elite i ran into and did 3-4 of the really good spawned dungeons for extra loot & XP. Ended the campaign with 14 Legos (got lucky) and a few levels (with 50% bonus).
I would do it again, even without the SK drop its a fun way to play.
I'm farming Depths 2 and Bridge runs on T3 solo and i find maybe a lego an hour.
I kind of wish Blizz would buff Res chests and the amount of items elite packs drop. its kind of underwhelming to kill a pack or clear an entire dungeon and open a res and see 1-3 items.
Played WW/Hota Hybrid, Wep Throw, 2H Rend, Frenzy Tank (release).
Post: Barb
Playing WW (wind shear), Hota/Stun build, Boulder Toss spec,
I love the Barb and even after the Wrath changes hes still easily the best class imo. WW wind shear is amazing and words can't describe how insane Boulder toss is... can't wait for March 25th.
Imo the people that abandoned the barb are scrubs and were only a Barb because infinite Wrath was broken. Ive been a barb when we did nothing but Frenzy tank with a shield on release and Ill be a barb until they delete the class.
In POE its about the build, You pre-plan a build and while playing through the games difficulties you watch as your concept become reality. This is the entire game, the entire leveling process supports this.
In D3 the focus is similar to a basic RPG, you pick a class and you have access to everything that class has. There is no pre-planning, there is no investment other than leveling up.
No, but there sure was a lot more to do than get all classes to end-game and then farm farm farm forever. D2 had infinitely more replayability than D3, and I have some doubts RoS can change that. But I'll be here to see.
What else was there to do in D2 other than farm for items or experience?
You didn't play D2?
First, You were much more heavily invested in characters in D2. You actually had to use a build, you couldnt easily flip flop specs without investment. This meant a hardcore player had many characters of the same class all playing differently with their own gear.
Second, In D2 levels meant something, you leveled up, placed points into your attributes and skill tree. It was much more important than paragon skills...
Third, D2 had ladders, PVP, Classic/Expansion modes and mods in offline mode. You had many, many more options. Build a pvp character, work on classic or expansion ladder characters, each class had 4-5 builds that required investment (if u didnt power level). in D3 you have one option. level a class and thats it.
You're pointing out a lot of meaningless stuff to make it seem like there was more to do than there actually was.
How was putting 5 points into vitality in D2 more entertaining than choosing from like 20 different stats in Paragon 2.0? Stat-allocation in D2 was: enough strength for gear -> max block or not? If yes then dex untill done -> every single point into vitality. That's all there was to it. Now you actually have somewhat meaningful decisions, even though each level only is a slight upgrade.
The points you put into skills were simply a slight damage boost each level, which basically forced you to have 1 or 2 spells that were fully optimized with synergies and all. You could then spam those 1 or 2 spells for eternity on that character - I really don't see how that's exciting compared to D3 skill system. Personally I remember wishing for a respecc system in D2 for soooo long before it came.
RoS might have ladders - but you have a point here. The excitement of a fresh economy on a ladder reset in D2 was truly great, except that you knew the economy would be ruined in 1-2 weeks by bots.
Do you really want to make us believe that you created a non-expansion character after LoD came out? I really don't see your point here, or how it will be any different in D3. Also, offline-mode in D2 was pretty boring compared to online-mode if you had a decent connection. I personally didn't play offline ever since i started playing online.
Its simple leveling up in D2 was part of your building a character process. With Paragon its an account wide thing and most of the points are meaningless.
Honestly i dont think a feature should be taken off the table because a small % of hardcore players power leveled. I never did and imo its their own fault for doing it. Still doesnt make re-leveling builds any less amazing.
Yes I played Classic after LoD released and offline mode with mods...
Its a fact you had more options in D2, it doesn't matter if you personally didn't like the options.
No, but there sure was a lot more to do than get all classes to end-game and then farm farm farm forever. D2 had infinitely more replayability than D3, and I have some doubts RoS can change that. But I'll be here to see.
What else was there to do in D2 other than farm for items or experience?
You didn't play D2?
First, You were much more heavily invested in characters in D2. You actually had to use a build, you couldnt easily flip flop specs without investment. This meant a hardcore player had many characters of the same class all playing differently with their own gear.
Second, In D2 levels meant something, you leveled up, placed points into your attributes and skill tree. It was much more important than paragon skills...
Third, D2 had ladders, PVP, Classic/Expansion modes and mods in offline mode. You had many, many more options. Build a pvp character, work on classic or expansion ladder characters, each class had 4-5 builds that required investment (if u didnt power level). in D3 you have one option. level a class and thats it.
Get every class to 70 (this is assuming i like every class)
Face roll Torment 6.
Get account wide paragon to 100-200 (gives enough points to get everything a spec needs)
Then what?
Ladders? With no economy and account wealth being meaningless?
Please explain it to me, what will keep me playing?
Will D3 get new skills constantly to change flavor of the month builds?
Will D3 have Leagues with new rule sets With Turbo monsters, PVP, and other weird stuff?
Will D3 Allow me to find an item, theory craft a build and level up that character progressing through multiple difficulties?
In D3 i level a character, get OP gear in a few weeks and then im left staring at a paragon number the rest of the time... Ill never have to re-roll that class, Ill have no incentive to increase my accounts wealth or look forward to new fresh economy.
With the bounty rewards gold is worthless. Same for Paragon leveling before the expansion.
You currenty get 3 million gold per bounty at high torment level and in takes 5-6 solid days to get to para 100+ with boosted Xp.
Blizzard went out of their way to make sure everything vanilla D3 players did to get an advantage was taken away. Having an insane amount of gold and 150+ para levels only means you are leading for like a week.
In hind-sight i dont think a years worth of para leveling and gold collection was worth one week advantage in RoS... Do you?
Oh brother... Diablo 3 doesn't take skill, it requires the ability to play without sleep. It requires a person to be a 100% gambling addict and someone that wants to do nothing but play one game all day for 15-20 hours a day. I would know i was a top player in D2 and during the first 6 months of POE.
Stop acting like it takes skill to be good at D3 or any rpg. You simply figure out the best way to do something and play ten times more than everyone else.
With that said understand even if played the right way, through campaign and then through adventure up to para 200+ there are players that could do that in a very short time anyway.
Even in a superior game like Path of Exile leveling to 85+ through three difficulties and maps all the best guys get there in like 3 days.
PoEs ladders are better because they actually add something new to the game but ultimately neither should be seen as a competition for 99.9% of the playerbase.
As for the WD... Man, I don't know. I really hope Blizz plans on adding a legit minion class to the game because as cool as the WD is he still feels like a Caster/Pet druid from D2... its not the same, we need a real minion master class.
This is silly... Of course its still i Diablo game.
its a sequel that changes a few things but the core is still there.
Select skills, progress through campaign, farm maps for materials and gear.
Its a dungeon crawler.
Asking if Diablo 3 is a real Diablo game like like asking if Mario 2 and Mario Sunshine are real Mario games... obviously they are.
Pre-patch i had a hardcore character that i played over 150 hours playing self found and had 55k dps...
My current barb is at 280k dps buffed, 1.4m toughness, 110k hp and i farm T3 and it feels ok.
My advice knock the difficulty down to T1 and Faceroll for another 100 hours and post back.
I would do it again, even without the SK drop its a fun way to play.
I kind of wish Blizz would buff Res chests and the amount of items elite packs drop. its kind of underwhelming to kill a pack or clear an entire dungeon and open a res and see 1-3 items.
Played WW/Hota Hybrid, Wep Throw, 2H Rend, Frenzy Tank (release).
Post: Barb
Playing WW (wind shear), Hota/Stun build, Boulder Toss spec,
I love the Barb and even after the Wrath changes hes still easily the best class imo. WW wind shear is amazing and words can't describe how insane Boulder toss is... can't wait for March 25th.
Imo the people that abandoned the barb are scrubs and were only a Barb because infinite Wrath was broken. Ive been a barb when we did nothing but Frenzy tank with a shield on release and Ill be a barb until they delete the class.
In POE its about the build, You pre-plan a build and while playing through the games difficulties you watch as your concept become reality. This is the entire game, the entire leveling process supports this.
In D3 the focus is similar to a basic RPG, you pick a class and you have access to everything that class has. There is no pre-planning, there is no investment other than leveling up.
Its simple leveling up in D2 was part of your building a character process. With Paragon its an account wide thing and most of the points are meaningless.
Honestly i dont think a feature should be taken off the table because a small % of hardcore players power leveled. I never did and imo its their own fault for doing it. Still doesnt make re-leveling builds any less amazing.
Yes I played Classic after LoD released and offline mode with mods...
Its a fact you had more options in D2, it doesn't matter if you personally didn't like the options.
You didn't play D2?
First, You were much more heavily invested in characters in D2. You actually had to use a build, you couldnt easily flip flop specs without investment. This meant a hardcore player had many characters of the same class all playing differently with their own gear.
Second, In D2 levels meant something, you leveled up, placed points into your attributes and skill tree. It was much more important than paragon skills...
Third, D2 had ladders, PVP, Classic/Expansion modes and mods in offline mode. You had many, many more options. Build a pvp character, work on classic or expansion ladder characters, each class had 4-5 builds that required investment (if u didnt power level). in D3 you have one option. level a class and thats it.
Face roll Torment 6.
Get account wide paragon to 100-200 (gives enough points to get everything a spec needs)
Then what?
Ladders? With no economy and account wealth being meaningless?
Please explain it to me, what will keep me playing?
Will D3 get new skills constantly to change flavor of the month builds?
Will D3 have Leagues with new rule sets With Turbo monsters, PVP, and other weird stuff?
Will D3 Allow me to find an item, theory craft a build and level up that character progressing through multiple difficulties?
In D3 i level a character, get OP gear in a few weeks and then im left staring at a paragon number the rest of the time... Ill never have to re-roll that class, Ill have no incentive to increase my accounts wealth or look forward to new fresh economy.
What will keep me playing?
You currenty get 3 million gold per bounty at high torment level and in takes 5-6 solid days to get to para 100+ with boosted Xp.
Blizzard went out of their way to make sure everything vanilla D3 players did to get an advantage was taken away. Having an insane amount of gold and 150+ para levels only means you are leading for like a week.
In hind-sight i dont think a years worth of para leveling and gold collection was worth one week advantage in RoS... Do you?
They also need to buff drops for normal non-bounty areas.
This way we can do bounties, Rifts and our favorite vanilla zones like weeping>festering>Misery and other nice combos in other acts.
Also bringing the keywardens back and adding a nice uber boss combo from act V and keywarden in act 5 would be cool too.