Lets say for example who would enjoy fighting a boss which had an ultimate death nova that wiped anything within melee range into oblivion, would that be fun without knowing it would happen? No. Would it be more fun if you knew it would happen and tried to avoid and succeeded in avoiding it? Yes.
To illustrate maka's point, hardcore players play hardcore for the thrill from the possibility of dying. If you farm and completely understand every boss before playing hardcore that trivializes the entire point. HC players WANT to discover the boss and completely not know what's going to happen.
I think most HC players don't want to actually die. The point of HC is to not die. If you're suggesting that a player will find it fun to learn about a bosses abilities in a Youtube video after or before dying. Then I think they don't even know themselves. I think they want to feel a real threat but to overcome it, to suggest they want to not know anything about a boss and die from that lack of knowledge that would be incorrect. If you are being over optimistic and saying a player will never die in HC from a lack of foresight then so be it.
You go on to say, in proper English, what you mean which is players will not care about what is best for them, however this is false. Players will care that they have no way of learning about a bosses abilities after they die from it obviously without understanding why.
This will be remedied to some degree by videos or similar but that fact still remains they will care that they die without learning what is killing them and that is a fact.
OK, first of all, you don't know me, don't know anything about my life, and therefore know nothing about my understanding of English (it's with a capital 'E', by the way).
Second, my post is completely valid, and I thank you for re-demonstrating it with your reply (underlined). HC players don't care about that, they don't care if it's "in their best interest" to play Normal SC before jumping into HC. I'm sure any HC player will back me up on this. As I initially said: you don't get it.
>Playing HC is not about "best interest".< This sentence here is seriously lacking any recognizable sentence structure generally recognized in text based language. It indicates your English being a secondary language. Capitalizing English is pretty unnecessary actually and it probably one of the most common "disrespected" rules on language in informal speech. Mainly because it does not usually add confusion or decrease readability and it fact it may even be considered humble to remove capitalization in certain contexts.
You don't get it. Playing HC is not about "best interest". I'm pretty comfortable saying this because I'm not really a HC player, so I don't feel 'targeted' by your post. But fair is fair.
Um I never said anything about hardcore being a "best interest" as you state which appears out of the context of my statements. It in-fact appears as you don't even understand basic english.
I implied that the normal completion of the game in D2 was in your best interest before you just jump into the HC version of the game without knowing anything about the act bosses.
It's pretty funny seeing these people complain about leveling to lvl10 to get to hardcore, I counted 2. It takes what like half an hour?
I'll be the one laughing when they don't realize it was in their best interest to know what the bosses will be like before they just jump into HC and die on the Act 2 boss like Duriel rofl.
In D2 there were many ways to completely gimp out your character with over MF that no-one did because MF public random group play was non-existant. For example dual wielding gull daggers from an axe barb or similar.
If you could get obscure MF weapon uniques like the gull dagger that completely gimp physical dps in D3, having that character take loot from a balance geared group in Inferno would be leeching completely and intentionally.
However with this shared system the person who stacks MF is not being leeched because the other players cannot by themselves choose to have someone to leech on, it is purely random and thus leeching cannot be intentional, if it does occur it will be by the conscious decision of a player to stack mf- potentially gimping weapon damage completely and giving the group item bonuses instead of battle assistance. A group may not even notice a MF stacked player at all, which cannot at all be defined as leeching.
In any case most of these selfish minded MF stackers are just upset about not being able to leech in groups consciously. They also seem to forget that the other players they play with will likely have around 100 or so MF from what I can imagine so the averaging will not be as harsh as they portray.
If a MF gimped character comes along dual welding gull daggers with 400% MF and the others being balanced at around 100% the group average will be around 175%
I totally agree with the OP. There are so many ways to make an RPG deep and customisable awell as allowing for choice. Look at Path of Exile's skill tree it's like the FFX sphere grid mixed with an ARPG very interesting and customisable .Aslong is there is a cost to small types of respec there can be a skill customisation type system that benefits the uniqueness of the individual and can accurately be called a build.
I want to point out I don't really care about stat customisation it seems like extra points ontop of automated points is the only enjoyable way to do them.
Also just on the basis of no character attribution of skill or stats the likihood of quests that are not manditory being completed are much less likely.
Actually I think they should have just in general planned the skills out more, I think as a base skills should all be "normal" damage and just "magic". This would make adding runes a hell of a lot more interesting for example because it would make your actions seem more significant as far as your build goes. Making Posion to fire is not as interesting as making normal to fire or normal to poison. As we know each rune sometimes adds different elements along with different mechanics. This would make the witch doctor's poison dart into just "dart" but make it into poison dart upon runestone usage.
This would also make it interesting to have a sense of completion if the player is the reason a mob elemental weaknesses is exploited as apposed to just random coincidence. I don't know if elemental weaknesses are in the game like +50% fire damage to ice mobs but it does make it more fun sometimes. Blizzard seems to like only resistant mobs, however noone really likes those types. Each mob type should have 1 weakness and only elemental types of mobs should be 50% resistant at a cap. (But I would say the main reason I find it fun to have mobs with elemental weaknesses is the added spell effects that indicate that when it occurs)
One of the problems is that the skills by default are awesome, so it's infact not by player choice that they are so. If runes made the skill awesome then that would change quite a few things as far as the player input is concerned.
Yea I know the blank slate problem, except unless they completely overhaul the system or add a skill tree the way they have it now it's kind of the blankslate with a delay as opposed to what it could potentially be. Which could based on the players skill to manage the combination of skill usage.
Another thing they could do is instead of having the player randomly learn a skill after beating a mob is have that ability be 'able' to be learned and placed have an item sink dedicated to allowing the players swap from a trainer tome if they happen to find it. This would remove moment to moment changes and have the player take longer to discover the best combinations. It would also place more value in the idea of a character "build".
As far as I see it you might aswell go full on in the direction they are heading which essentially makes swaping skills a commonality and actually make real time thinking and stratagy into the gameplay.
That is unless they have other tricks up their sleve.
Anotherway skills could swap is with a middle mouse scroll over the hotbar icon. And have the player determine the listing manually. The buffs would have to last at least like 10 minutes in order for the player to actually think with a reasonable level of relaxation, otherwise it might be a bit chaotic.
As far as I see it a major flaw in the system of skill assignment is stagmentation and a singluar set of skills that are most viable for a character class. A way to mix this system up would be to buff the player for swaping in a new skill on the fly to that new skill specifically. So it will actually be beneficial to mix the skill allotment for your character. Except the buff would be random and could even be chainned or combo'd so if you swapped skills in the right type of combination you would see interesting buffs based on a predetermined bonus. For example say swaping a fire based skill that received additional lighting damage was swapped to lighting skill afterward that would trigger a double loop bonus, etc.
However in order for this to work we would need to see the Cool Down on skill changing be reducible via items or similar and allow skill changes from an easy swap system, like from the hotbar. (In the bias of the current skill type- Spender, Gainer, Utility)
ive played the POE beta and now that ive played the D3 beta its light years ahead of POE. poe skill system/attribute system /graphics/gameplay are all very inferior to D3's.
Well I see a very postive response to this game and all the D3 Beta players are talking about the game being boring and taking away all the the elements of the original game.
I think most HC players don't want to actually die. The point of HC is to not die. If you're suggesting that a player will find it fun to learn about a bosses abilities in a Youtube video after or before dying. Then I think they don't even know themselves. I think they want to feel a real threat but to overcome it, to suggest they want to not know anything about a boss and die from that lack of knowledge that would be incorrect. If you are being over optimistic and saying a player will never die in HC from a lack of foresight then so be it.
This will be remedied to some degree by videos or similar but that fact still remains they will care that they die without learning what is killing them and that is a fact.
>Playing HC is not about "best interest".< This sentence here is seriously lacking any recognizable sentence structure generally recognized in text based language. It indicates your English being a secondary language. Capitalizing English is pretty unnecessary actually and it probably one of the most common "disrespected" rules on language in informal speech. Mainly because it does not usually add confusion or decrease readability and it fact it may even be considered humble to remove capitalization in certain contexts.
Um I never said anything about hardcore being a "best interest" as you state which appears out of the context of my statements. It in-fact appears as you don't even understand basic english.
I implied that the normal completion of the game in D2 was in your best interest before you just jump into the HC version of the game without knowing anything about the act bosses.
I'll be the one laughing when they don't realize it was in their best interest to know what the bosses will be like before they just jump into HC and die on the Act 2 boss like Duriel rofl.
If you could get obscure MF weapon uniques like the gull dagger that completely gimp physical dps in D3, having that character take loot from a balance geared group in Inferno would be leeching completely and intentionally.
However with this shared system the person who stacks MF is not being leeched because the other players cannot by themselves choose to have someone to leech on, it is purely random and thus leeching cannot be intentional, if it does occur it will be by the conscious decision of a player to stack mf- potentially gimping weapon damage completely and giving the group item bonuses instead of battle assistance. A group may not even notice a MF stacked player at all, which cannot at all be defined as leeching.
In any case most of these selfish minded MF stackers are just upset about not being able to leech in groups consciously. They also seem to forget that the other players they play with will likely have around 100 or so MF from what I can imagine so the averaging will not be as harsh as they portray.
If a MF gimped character comes along dual welding gull daggers with 400% MF and the others being balanced at around 100% the group average will be around 175%
I want to point out I don't really care about stat customisation it seems like extra points ontop of automated points is the only enjoyable way to do them.
Also just on the basis of no character attribution of skill or stats the likihood of quests that are not manditory being completed are much less likely.
This would also make it interesting to have a sense of completion if the player is the reason a mob elemental weaknesses is exploited as apposed to just random coincidence. I don't know if elemental weaknesses are in the game like +50% fire damage to ice mobs but it does make it more fun sometimes. Blizzard seems to like only resistant mobs, however noone really likes those types. Each mob type should have 1 weakness and only elemental types of mobs should be 50% resistant at a cap. (But I would say the main reason I find it fun to have mobs with elemental weaknesses is the added spell effects that indicate that when it occurs)
One of the problems is that the skills by default are awesome, so it's infact not by player choice that they are so. If runes made the skill awesome then that would change quite a few things as far as the player input is concerned.
Another thing they could do is instead of having the player randomly learn a skill after beating a mob is have that ability be 'able' to be learned and placed have an item sink dedicated to allowing the players swap from a trainer tome if they happen to find it. This would remove moment to moment changes and have the player take longer to discover the best combinations. It would also place more value in the idea of a character "build".
That is unless they have other tricks up their sleve.
Anotherway skills could swap is with a middle mouse scroll over the hotbar icon. And have the player determine the listing manually. The buffs would have to last at least like 10 minutes in order for the player to actually think with a reasonable level of relaxation, otherwise it might be a bit chaotic.
However in order for this to work we would need to see the Cool Down on skill changing be reducible via items or similar and allow skill changes from an easy swap system, like from the hotbar. (In the bias of the current skill type- Spender, Gainer, Utility)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uME-UfUS6gA&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3JiP-94TXw&feature=related
Well I see a very postive response to this game and all the D3 Beta players are talking about the game being boring and taking away all the the elements of the original game.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kucFP3wN3Eo