i remember bashiok replying (during beta period) that this hit detection is intended. he said that it would be too easy to just avoid getting hit if you just run away from the animation
I read that too, somewhere on mmo-champ. Still got the link somewhere?
spiders @ cydaea... they are just so op, im like 15m away and still they can hit me as dh
Those are bugged as far as anyone can tell, and not the same as the issue the OP posted.
Actually...that's exactly the problem as I'm describing it. And I've noticed it quite often. The little spiders are fast-moving melee attackers who can swarm you and be in your face within seconds. Also they tend to pop out of eggs and surprise players. When they run up to you and you run away, you still end up getting hit because of the intended design.
Other monsters it's especially noticeable with:
- Zombies
- Skeletons
- Grotesque
- Lacuna huntress leap attacks
All of these creatures attack really slowly. Because of the nature of the way this game was programmed, you can literally be 2 inches away by the time the attack connects. Try this yourself in act 1 at any difficulty. Walk up to a zombie and then walk away. Notice how delayed the attack mechanic works. Observer your latency when doing so to confirm it's not lag. Now do the same in inferno, and if you've ever found yourself unreasonably frustrated from playing inferno this might help you understand why.
It's called latency. When you play with 0 latency, you will understand.
Some of it is. Others are intended design. These are Bashiok's words:
It's intentional. We don't want a game where the most effective way to play is to dodge in and out of enemy attacks. It's not that difficult to do, and it's just not a very fun way to play. "Most effective" and "not fun" just can't be in the same sentence when describing part of the game. We want combat to be based on use of abilities, putting thought into builds, building up offensive and defensive stats, etc. Skill is absolutely a part of all of the systems you'll use, and kiting can be too, but it'd be ridiculous if you could avoid all of the systems that make the game the game because you can time dodges of enemy attacks and negate every other factor.
Why you're still here, crying about nothing for changes that will never happen; instead of just fucking playing Torchlight II (since that's exactly what you describe as "right") is a fucking mystery to me.
Because I want to play D3 without flawed game mechanics. And judging by how many others are chiming in it would appear I'm not the only one.
Just because Blizz stated this was intended does not excuse bad design. And how people can support this asinine decision is just baffling.
I tried this with my monk, same experience. You try to use tempest rush, you see your character getting off, you see damage popping up on you/on mobs, you still get back to the place you were trying to run off.
Edit: also happens with other classes, but with the monk case I noticed how ridiculous this "you can't avoid damage" mechanic is. Not only you can't dodge manually, but you can't even leave that "damage zone".
The ironic thing is they added skills designed to evade attacks, and yet their flawed hit detection renders them completely obsolete. Take evasive fire, for example. The skill is designed to backflip you away when a monster approaches. Instead what happens is you fire, the monster begins its attack, you backflip away, and afterwards you take the hit despite your distance. Same with vault.
I seriously want to punch any person who justifies this as acceptable.
This will go down in my history book as one of the most retarded game decisions ever. Whoever greelighted this as "Intended design" at Blizzard should be ashamed of themselves.
I feel sorry for "the wife", if she even exists, that is. Based on the size of that block you chunked together(not to mention many others), you clearly value forum ranting a lot more than spending time with her. Though she'd probably be tired of talking to someone who always has to be right anyway. Someone who vehemently disagrees with and puts down anyone else who's opinion does not coincide with their own entirely.
Hit detection is not broken, it just sucks. It's a poor design. We have no right to complain about how a game is built? But Blizz opened the flood gates. They've informed us of every little development step they have taken, practically since day one. Every change, every re-design, every artitistic alteration has been documented(excuse the hyperbole). They've asked for constant feedback(and still do). They've designed the system this way. They've given us a means and a reason to complain about their game.
When I played Titan Quest and I didn't like how something worked, I dealt with it. Because I had to. This is an entirely different ball game. Blizz has changed the rules. I've been disappointed with D3 because I got to see all of the design processes and how many times they have reinvented the game and still only came out with something mediocre. This hit-box stuff is terrible. It makes for a lousy game, nuff said. I shouldn't have to be "skillfull" and adapt to a mechanic that makes a game 'unenjoyable'.
That just makes an unenjoyable game, even less enjoyable.
Very well said, and that's exactly how I feel. I suppose claiming this as broken is a misnomer since it's exactly how they've planned it. Bad design is more like it, and I'm glad others are stepping forward to express their frustration. +1 to you.
Has anyone else, specifically wizards experienced the wormhole death teleport?
Someone fraps that shit
Check out the first video in my OP. You see the wizard bouncing around in teleports during Diablo terror phase. When the tp ends he gets instantly hit.
It's unbelievable this kind of nonsense can even be considered intended gameplay. 'm actually having more fun trying to capture these absurd moments in screenshots than I am trying to avoid them.
Due to popular demand, the ability for monsters to complete melee attacks on characters not in range when the attack animation completes has been removed. In order to balance this change, mob movement speed has been increased by 10%, while movement impairing abilities used by players have been increased by 5%. This should result in about the same amount of incoming damage, while making better use of gear and skills which provide additional run speed.
That would be a lovely change, actually. I'd gladly welcome an overall decrease in our effectiveness, or a general increase in monster effectiveness, if it meant a melee attack was aligned better with its animation and could be avoided in a consistent fashion. I'm not advocating for a dodge button. I'm just hoping hit detection was less unorthodox. Having played the game quite a bit I know how it works currently. I realize that if I'm close to a monster and an attack is triggered, no amount of kiting or running away will avoid that attack. It's the nature of the beast. But I still don't find it fun or even something I'm willing to tolerate as ideal game programming. It strikes me as sloppy and bugged.
QQing about server stability is something I can understand. QQing about game mechanics you couldn't ignore when you bought the game is just a spoiled brat attitude.
People have been complaining about the ramp up in difficulty between inferno drops and Blizz decided to address it. There's been constant complaints about the item drops and loot tables and Blizz will be tweaking the specifics there too. Blizz has always maintained a solid stance against RMAH in HC, but with increasing demand they're reconsidering that notion. Every decision Blizzard makes is not perfect and shouldn't be treated as gospel. How many people complained about the skill UI when it first surfaced in beta? People are still complaining about it. Sometimes they just make poor decisions, and many of us are refuting this is one of them.
D2 didn't suffer this problem. Many people have come to expect the same level of fun and gameplay that D2 offered, but some are finding it's just not there with the way the game is handling hit detection. It's clearly taking skill out of the game and reinforcing the need for AH participation. Sure, players versed in the game mechanics can learn to always stay out of melee range if they can avoid it. But that's not always possible with teleporting/fast/vortex monsters. Diablo as well has a teleport attacks which exacerbates the issue. Watch the first video if you need proof. Also, check out these images: http://imgur.com/a/QxxZq#0
I truly hate this. Its as if the actual hit is being calculated instantly when the animation starts playing, but isnt carried out until the animation ends. Being hit should be in sync with the actual animation.
That's exactly the case, by design according to Blizzard. Your only recourse is to not even get into melee range because you will get hit unless the dodge dice roll in your favor.
Skill = vaulting away before the enemy gets close enough to swing at you or simply never letting it get close enough.
Here's what I don't understand...people justifying that avoiding monster proximity is every bit as skilled as avoiding monster attacks. Sometimes it's physically impossible to avoid getting placed in harms way. Vortex/teleport minions assert that. So if a thousand pounder teleports next to your DH, vaulting away won't do you a bit of good if he chooses that moment to crush you with both hands. You're dead when that vault completes.
The issue here extends beyond just the DH. Take furious charge, for example. I've charged through a pack of monsters in inferno. While passing through, one monster that's just outside my path of travel decides to strike at me in transit. My charge ends, I'm 2 inches away, and my barb still receives damage.
I agree with you that dodging a melee strike when it winds up is reaction. I do not agree that preventing a monster from getting in close proximity is skill. That is kiting. Kiting monster avoidance is the name of the game in inferno, and I'm here to argue it's not fun when taken to the extreme.
With practice and experience players should be able to learn the various monster attack animations and successfully dodge them with some well timed reactions. Right now that's just not the case. Players versed in this game learn that getting into monster proximity will get you struck...no matter what. And if you lack the gear to survive/dodge that you're f'ed. All because Blizzard decided that dodging attacks is not allowed and your time is better spent grinding/buying gear to help you absorb/avoid the inevitable 1-shot.
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The link was right in the OP: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/4427663050#15
http://i48.tinypic.com/4j83ud.jpg
http://i50.tinypic.com/ipd16u.jpg
Actually...that's exactly the problem as I'm describing it. And I've noticed it quite often. The little spiders are fast-moving melee attackers who can swarm you and be in your face within seconds. Also they tend to pop out of eggs and surprise players. When they run up to you and you run away, you still end up getting hit because of the intended design.
Other monsters it's especially noticeable with:
- Zombies
- Skeletons
- Grotesque
- Lacuna huntress leap attacks
All of these creatures attack really slowly. Because of the nature of the way this game was programmed, you can literally be 2 inches away by the time the attack connects. Try this yourself in act 1 at any difficulty. Walk up to a zombie and then walk away. Notice how delayed the attack mechanic works. Observer your latency when doing so to confirm it's not lag. Now do the same in inferno, and if you've ever found yourself unreasonably frustrated from playing inferno this might help you understand why.
Some of it is. Others are intended design. These are Bashiok's words:
Because I want to play D3 without flawed game mechanics. And judging by how many others are chiming in it would appear I'm not the only one.
Just because Blizz stated this was intended does not excuse bad design. And how people can support this asinine decision is just baffling.
The ironic thing is they added skills designed to evade attacks, and yet their flawed hit detection renders them completely obsolete. Take evasive fire, for example. The skill is designed to backflip you away when a monster approaches. Instead what happens is you fire, the monster begins its attack, you backflip away, and afterwards you take the hit despite your distance. Same with vault.
I seriously want to punch any person who justifies this as acceptable.
It was quoted in my OP.
http://imgur.com/a/crN39#0
This will go down in my history book as one of the most retarded game decisions ever. Whoever greelighted this as "Intended design" at Blizzard should be ashamed of themselves.
Thanks again.
Very well said, and that's exactly how I feel. I suppose claiming this as broken is a misnomer since it's exactly how they've planned it. Bad design is more like it, and I'm glad others are stepping forward to express their frustration. +1 to you.
Check out the first video in my OP. You see the wizard bouncing around in teleports during Diablo terror phase. When the tp ends he gets instantly hit.
http://imgur.com/a/PbM1l#0
That would be a lovely change, actually. I'd gladly welcome an overall decrease in our effectiveness, or a general increase in monster effectiveness, if it meant a melee attack was aligned better with its animation and could be avoided in a consistent fashion. I'm not advocating for a dodge button. I'm just hoping hit detection was less unorthodox. Having played the game quite a bit I know how it works currently. I realize that if I'm close to a monster and an attack is triggered, no amount of kiting or running away will avoid that attack. It's the nature of the beast. But I still don't find it fun or even something I'm willing to tolerate as ideal game programming. It strikes me as sloppy and bugged.
People have been complaining about the ramp up in difficulty between inferno drops and Blizz decided to address it. There's been constant complaints about the item drops and loot tables and Blizz will be tweaking the specifics there too. Blizz has always maintained a solid stance against RMAH in HC, but with increasing demand they're reconsidering that notion. Every decision Blizzard makes is not perfect and shouldn't be treated as gospel. How many people complained about the skill UI when it first surfaced in beta? People are still complaining about it. Sometimes they just make poor decisions, and many of us are refuting this is one of them.
D2 didn't suffer this problem. Many people have come to expect the same level of fun and gameplay that D2 offered, but some are finding it's just not there with the way the game is handling hit detection. It's clearly taking skill out of the game and reinforcing the need for AH participation. Sure, players versed in the game mechanics can learn to always stay out of melee range if they can avoid it. But that's not always possible with teleporting/fast/vortex monsters. Diablo as well has a teleport attacks which exacerbates the issue. Watch the first video if you need proof. Also, check out these images: http://imgur.com/a/QxxZq#0
That's exactly the case, by design according to Blizzard. Your only recourse is to not even get into melee range because you will get hit unless the dodge dice roll in your favor.
- http://imgur.com/a/umkjy#0
- http://imgur.com/a/9gbIh#0
- http://imgur.com/a/QxxZq#0
- http://imgur.com/a/m4e2J#4
Here's the thread on B.NET if anybody wants to contribute to the discussion there.
http://us.battle.net...opic/5827302985
If you're bothered by this please voice your concern.
Thanks.
Here's what I don't understand...people justifying that avoiding monster proximity is every bit as skilled as avoiding monster attacks. Sometimes it's physically impossible to avoid getting placed in harms way. Vortex/teleport minions assert that. So if a thousand pounder teleports next to your DH, vaulting away won't do you a bit of good if he chooses that moment to crush you with both hands. You're dead when that vault completes.
The issue here extends beyond just the DH. Take furious charge, for example. I've charged through a pack of monsters in inferno. While passing through, one monster that's just outside my path of travel decides to strike at me in transit. My charge ends, I'm 2 inches away, and my barb still receives damage.
I agree with you that dodging a melee strike when it winds up is reaction. I do not agree that preventing a monster from getting in close proximity is skill. That is kiting. Kiting monster avoidance is the name of the game in inferno, and I'm here to argue it's not fun when taken to the extreme.
With practice and experience players should be able to learn the various monster attack animations and successfully dodge them with some well timed reactions. Right now that's just not the case. Players versed in this game learn that getting into monster proximity will get you struck...no matter what. And if you lack the gear to survive/dodge that you're f'ed. All because Blizzard decided that dodging attacks is not allowed and your time is better spent grinding/buying gear to help you absorb/avoid the inevitable 1-shot.