First off: 85% of your damage? Yea, you clearly have no god damn clue about how this spec works.
Here's the thing:
You are talking about a perma-archon build. Your experience with it doesn't matter fuck all, because it's not what this build is about: Repeat after me -
This build uses Archon as a cooldown to fend off hard elite packs/bosses or speed up clearing. It does NOT rely on archon.
You're also extremely stupid if you really think the only reason MM-conflag was ever worth it was because you could proc of all 3 missiles...But hey, let's hear it - what's the other 4 to 7 hotfixes that made the build null apart from not letting secondary missiles count for procs? Let's hear them, if it isn't a number you just made up in order to sound more credible. (Query: Find me a spam-able spell with 510% weapon damage that leaves a stack-able 165% wep dmg DoT on the target. Even your precious Archon's abilities are 604%, 790% and 779% weapon damage... AKA one attack from right or left clicking only slightly beats out MM, and the only reason Archon starts dealing more damage is because of the +Dmg% bonus after a kill).
So, let's say it again: No one gives a fuck about your perma archon build. You might think it's better, and you have fun using it. That does not make a build that can run T6 rifts in 10 minutes or less "bad", and it sure as hell doesn't require nearly as much gear as yours (in reality, the only thing this build is reliant on is cindercoat, magefists, and mirrorball to start dealing out heavy damage).
The fact that you're doing it with 4 wizards on hardcore doesn't matter fuck all to me. Playing with 4 chars that does exactly the same thing, when mobs only increase their HP by 40% per player doesn't exactly seem like it makes anything "harder" (Fact: If you have 4 times the damage, and only 1.6 time more HP, it gets a whole lot easier. You only die to avoidable dmg nowadays, so when your 4x wiz all move at the same time to avoid shit, it basicly becomes you playing T4, with 4x the loot at T6 drop rates). Besides, you have to tab between every window to loot after each elite pack, which would mean that you'd have archon up 100% of the time because you have to afk for 10-15 seconds in order to pick everything up. Yea, totally a valid solo method.
All that said, don't you think we're aware that fire archon is a decent build? The issue I'm having right now is that you're being a douche, comming in here, assuming that the OP is wrong in what he's written in his build setup, JUST BECAUSE IT ISN'T THE MAXIMUM OUTPUT ACCORDING TO *YOU* - someone who multiboxes, thus not getting what this build is really "good" for.
So, instead of hijacking a thread that has nothing to do with your extremely gear dependant, precious archon build, go ahead and make your own. And derp it up with your four wizards while you're at it. It doesn't really make anyone impressed.
Okay, so first of all I did NOT come here to start a fight, but to tell that the build of this guide is NOT the best build there is, at least not average DPS-wise.
Second of all, NONE of my builds is 100 % focused on a perma-archon build, they just ALLOW you, IF you have WorShip Gloves, to SWITCH to them incase you find an Empowered Shrine to make full use of it. It's NOT a must though.
You clearly came here to start a fight, or you wouldn't start going on a tangent on something completly unrelated. His build doesn't focus on archon at all (it has been an afterthought with the 2.0.5 changes). If someone wanted a archon build, then they'd build TOWARDS an archon build, but that's not what this is about. Being able to transform it into an archon build if you want is all fine and such, but you still don't seem to get the point.
Third of all, blaming me for lying? Well, here's the ninja-stealth nerfs they did over a month ago:
1. Magic Missile was adding a DOT for each 3 missiles, this what what MAINLY made it OverPowered.
2. Aracne Power on Crit worked with all 3 misssiles.
3. Life of Hit worked with all 3 missiles.
4. ThunderFury could proc on all 3 missiles.
5. Freeze Effects could proc on all 3 missiles.
6. Stun effects could proc on all 3 missiles.
7. Chill effects could proc on all 3 missiles.
8. HellFire Ring could proc on all 3 missiles.
And pretty much any type of procs had x3 chance and x3 DOT's was means 300 % stronger DOT. There is no question about the hotfix was a huge nerf. I did run T6 mm conflig before nerf and saw the huge difference after the changes.
Sooo... Let me get this straight - your 8 nerfs are in reality ONE nerf, and one thing that has never happened? (Fun fact: All 3 missiles STILL stack up the ignite debuff. That's the entire reason this build works well and does a shitton of singletarget damage).
And as mentioned a second ago - mirrorballs extra missiles not counting in proc coefficients was *one* nerf. Not a ton of seperate nerfs (which you even sort-of admit in the second part of that quote: A lot of proc coefficients was cut) - So: one nerf, and one thing that isn't true. Gotcha. Where's the remaining 6?
Fourth, when you say 510 % weapon damage is a lot you obviously don't know the wizards spells. Both Arcane Torrent and Distintegrate is more, and easily spammed with the used of Diamond Skin Prism and CDR. Also, you obviously have NO clue how powerfull Arachon is, you'd not ONLY have a 700 % weapon dmg spell, but is ABLE to spam 2 of them at the SAME time which BOTH is AOE. With a total of about 1383 % weapon damage and NOT only that, but also a passive that gives you millions of bonus damage and allows you to reach 500m+ eDPS (compatible with pet WD, AvoidLoL is 170-450m avg eDPS for example, a 729paragon WD streamer who shows his D3Recount on the stream). So please DON'T claim that Magic MM conflig is the best spell out there.
And Arcane Torrent/Disintegrate are both arcane *spenders*, which cannot be spammed endlessly the same way MM can. Likewise, they do not have a 165% wep dmg dot that stacks up every cast (turning into far more than both the spells you mentioned).
I am well aware of how powerfull archon is, but for you to go ahead and say the spec is "wrong" because it isn't focused on always being in archon is just fucking asine. I think that's what you don't get - I'm well aware a perma archon build is probably going to be stronger, BUT THAT WASN'T THE FOCUS OF THE GUIDE - YOU CAME BARGING IN HERE AND *MADE IT* ABOUT THAT.
I never claimed MM was the best. Please quote where I stated that. I asked you to find me a spam able spell with a comparable strength. I'm also aware that archon's explosion (melee range) and beam/smash can both be used together. And I'd be a fool to claim that anything wiz has can compare with an archon while in it, because of the fact that it's the class' strongest cooldown. I never claimed this spec was stronger. I said that this spec is fully T6 solo viable and less gear dependant.
Even without gloves of worship or empowered shrine, you'd still want to reach somewhere between 62 and 67 % CDR, to have archon up as much as possible, since it's an increase from 510 % ---> 1383 % weapon dmg, 20 % more base dmg + additionally per kill, AND even more toughness. Anyone who knows simple Algrebra understands this.
No. That's where you're wrong, though. That's where this spec differs from your view of what "EVERYONE HAS TO DO TO NOT SUCK". You want Archon up as much as possible. I have said it what, three times? so far. I'll say it again:
This build relies on Magic Missile as your main nuke, and has the option to take Archon as a cooldown to deal with elites that'd otherwise be harder (maybe you don't like dealing with wallers because MM doesn't break through walls outside of kulle-aid). But since you bring in basic algebra, let me set up some math for you that you apparantly do not understand:
In order to get, say, 65% cool down reduction, you will need:
12.5% Helm gem (losing out on either: 23% life-41% magic find).
20% passive slot (losing out on either - 17% dmg reduc, 6% crit, 10-20% dmg from EE, 15% dmg from audacity).
And now, in order to gain 32.5% more, you need:
8% shoulder (losing out on either 400 armor, 100 all ress, or 20% AOE-damage).
8% gloves (losing 7% IAS - which is a big deal for a Magic Missile build, because you rely on stacking up the ignite fast for higher HP mobs).
The remaining 16.5% comes down to if you want to use Vyr's or not, as you could get 10% from Cpt crimsons. Either way, Vyrs is 20% fire damage lost. Borns loses you out on a good weapon, or 20% fire dmg with the chest. You get the idea. There's the rings as alternatives, where you suddenly can't use a Unity+SoJ if you are using set bonuses (which then loses you out on 100% toughness +12-15% elite dmg, vs 20% fire dmg and 30% elite dmg). Oh, and if you get CDR on those, you lose some of the biggest stats you have (crit/critdmg).
Getting CDR on weapon is a no-go aswell, as 10% weapon damage is probably the single biggest increase in the entire game for your damage.
There's also your source, I guess, but then you'd lose out on 750 vit or 15% magic missile damage. Basicly, also a shitton.
My point is: By the end of getting your 65% or so CDR, atleast if you want to use Vyrs, you have lost about half of your output (be it through lost elemental/elite dmg on SoJ, Cinder/Magefists, and other DPS stats sac'd for CDR) or half of your toughness (if unity) - both choises also has minor effects on the other side, of course (23% life gem lost while losing dps, losing elite dmg on unity with RoRG). Sure, you might be doing 1383% for the duration of archon and have 50% uptime on Archon, but you have to realise that when you have lost so many DPS stats, you're not actually doing 1383% damage instead of 510%+165%stacking dot - you're doing about 700-800%, and outside of archon, you'll likewise suffer in terms of output. A hybrid spec is all fine and dandy, but that's not what this was about, and turning everything into an archon hybrid just to have the option is silly.
But please, if you claim that MM Conflig is highest eDPS and best build for T6, please please please upload a video where you show your eDPS with D3Recount or TurboHUD. I'd gladly see an eDPS 100m+. If not, then STFU, since you clearly haven't done any testing AT ALL. Since you clearly don't even know the spells.
P.S. most packs die before you even reach high stacks, its only on RG and bosses like Malthael you can reach high DPS, and in this case The Furnace is way better.
I'm afraid that I don't quite is as into this game that I play with a ton of addons, so I can't help you there. I would, however, love to see you quote me saying this is "the best spec with the highest dps" anywhere. You seem to be putting words in my mouth, so maybe you should just STFU and actually start reading instead of being a douche? Or is that too hard for you :s?
P.S. - I already explained you the difference between having four geared characters running around doing something vs one. Of course shit is going to die before you blink. That's the entire point of playing in groups. The mobs do not grow stronger at the same rate as the group. They aren't gaining 100% hp per new char joining, and they gain zero damage. You can get away with a shitton of stuff you wouldn't be able to do nearly as easily in a solo game, which is why the whole multiboxing premise doesn't really compare to solo experiences.
I can, however, use ALGEBRA to draw you up a quick calculation -
My MM-Ignites hit for about 10M per, each cast of 3 balls adding a DoT that ticks 4 times over 3 seconds for another 10M total. This DoT is refreshed by each cast.
I do 2x casts a second (long live attack speed).
This means 60M from 6x MM-Ignites, or 60M E-DPS, before the DoT.
The DoT adds 20M damage to the pool per second. 20M 1s, 40M 2s, 60M 3s and so forth. Basic stuff. This means that by the time I have casted six times, I am doing 60M damage per second, along with having a DoT running for 60M damage over 3 seconds (or 20M). So, in order to reach 100M E-DPS, I need to cast 18 times, or attack for nine seconds. Anything after that keeps improving it at a rate of 20M more dmg into the pool per second, untill you let it run out. All the above, I do realise, does not factor in that this has been calculated assuming critical hits. With a 73.5% crit rate (sadly, losing .5% on neck and 1% on gloves) I guess you can go ahead and multiply the above numbers by 0.735 and get the "correct" measurements. The point is, I'm not even sure if 100M e-dps is anything worth mentioning (as I don't use your addons or even is as into this as you), but the ramp up is about 12 seconds to reach that level.
That said, most packs has 500-600M health. So that's under 10 seconds to kill them off if they all get hit by the missiles (so let's say 10 seconds to account for not hitting perfectly etc). Sure, it's not enough to reach that potential. On the other hand, I'm not sitting 50% of the time doing half of that output because Archon is on CD.
LOLOL Mirrorball+cindercoat+magefist all u need for heavy dmg? A person with just that and rest yellow items, barely deals more than 3-8m eDPS. That's extremely terrible. Only thing you said thats true, is that all a person needs use MM Conflig is a mirrorball, but just because the items is easy to collect it doesn't make it best build. In fact, my build doesn't require "luck" to make, just that you farm materials. Meanwhile to get Vyrs, it can take an undefined amount of time. And not only to find some wit proper rolls
You mistake "not gear dependant" with "don't need proper gear". Let me explain you the difference:
If you are wearing Magefists, Cindercoat and Mirrorball as your 3 core items, the: Pants, Helm, Bracers, Shoulders, weapon, boots, neck, and rings are largely irrellevant. You don't need to farm a RoRG for set bonuses (but it helps). You don't need to farm Vyrs set pieces. You could wear blackthornes as long as it had relevant stats, and the 3 items would still carry the build. Heck, as you say yourself, the Mirrorball is really the only thing that is *needed* for the build. I just consider the cindercoat and magefists to be the second and third most important in the spec. Sure, you'll want shoulders that has int and some other stats on them. You'll want a helm with crit and int. You'll be dumb not to get that in any spec, I'm sure we agree. What you don't need, is to hunt for set items, you don't need to hunt for items with CDR, and you don't have a threshold where the spec suddenly "clicks". As you say yourself, you want more than 60% CDR for the spec to work very well. There's no such "threshold" here. That is what I mean by "gear dependant" - you need a shit ton of CDR gear, each on a piece that has to be found/crafted.
Dude, your fun to read, again you state something wrong. You say it gets easier with 4 players on HC, but infact it gets way harder. Yes, DPS wise you can kill faster, BUT the enemies do also have WAY more damage. Show me a video of you multiboxing T6 on HC please, I'm sure you wont even get to 10 % in the rift before you die.Also controlling 4 chars is WAY WAY WAY harder than controlling 1, especially against KnockBack. Untill you've tried it yourself, don't you even speak about it, because you obviously have no clue
I have no interest in either multiboxing, or HC. I find this game quite relaxing in between raids in WoW, and got the main game for free with my annual pass, and bought the expansion with RMAH money. I don't intend to spend more money on it :).That said, for someone who thinks they're knowledgeable about everything, you have really not read up on jack shit. If you were to go ahead and test it for yourself, or even do a quick search on the internet, you would know that the only thing that increases when you have multiple players is the health of the monsters.
What you apparantly do not seem to understand, is that this means you have far less damage going around. Anything that is not specificly AOE-damage is only going to hit one player, who has a fourth of the groups health. Instead of everything, no matter if it is AOE or not, hitting all the players (one person) for however much damage. Considering that all unavoidable damage is largely singletarget, and almost all AOE damage is completly avoidable, that's a pretty fucking big deal. The only AOE-unavoidable I can think of would be Jailer.
But put it this way - you clearly think you're right, and somehow think that your way is the correct way because you are willing to throw money on multiboxing and prefer hardcore. Not much I can do to change your mind then, oh mighty one. I'm afraid that all I can do compared to your skillz of multiboxing in the frightful hardcore enviroment, is research and apply logic rather than jump to conclusions. Perhaps if you'd tried out a mirrorball before going on a rampage, you'd have known that all 3 missiles stack the damage. Or that you take far less damage overall in a 4 person game than a 1 person game, compared to the available health (Fun fact: This is why Blizzard isn't fixing the Unity-trinity of 2x unity, 1x immortal follower. Having that combo essentially makes you as durable as if you were playing in a 2 person team as you take half the damage).
Lol? 10-15 seconds to pickup between each pack? Do you even Box yo? Try watch Inigo on Twitch or a youtube video of someone multiboxing, because you obviously have no clue at all.Only time I stop up to pick up is after RG, and that takes maybe 3-8 seconds. Or a Goblin pack, prolly 15-20.
No, I don't box I'm afraid. Sadly, I base my estimation on personal experience, which actually includes caring about the loot that monsters drop (which means picking up everything and salvaging it. I am on +150 aughild helms at this point, with the best one being 650 int, 640 vit, socket and crit - give me one at +700 int/vit or with gold find%, and I'll be happy, but nope. 90 Veileds per). If you just zerg through everything untill you find a legendary and hear a ding from whatever addon it is that warns you guys about that, then I guess it'll be faster. Personally, I'd imagine it would take me 2-3 seconds to tab and pick up loot on each char after every pack. Which is in line with the 10-15 second estimation. So... How exactly do you like, get gems/veileds/essence to craft etc everything on your chars :<? Can't trade it from the main one.
And remember - your "point of view" is far from the norm. If we made a poll to ask how many people are multiboxing 4 characters and how many are playing just the one, I'm willing to bet that we'll get more people who play on just the one char. Which sort of means that how *you* play might be the most effective when multiboxing (leaving loot etc behind), but it's not how most people WILL be playing. Doesn't matter either way, as it was just a nod towards how if you spend time picking up loot between packs, Archon will seem stronger, as it gets time to cool off in that duration.
All I claimed, was that his build can gain MORE CDR and thoose more overall DPS and that MM Conflig is not a must to reach high dps. In reality, all you need is a lot of fire or arcane %, elite %, base dmg and CDR and you can deal a lot of dmg with Archon and almost any primary in the game. You can make Arcane Torrent Archon, Disintegrate Archon, HeatWare Archon, MM Archon .. etc. But if you have 60+ % CDR, its Archon that will deal the most of the dmg. Get a DPS meter and you'll notice. And I'm not speaking about against Malthael, Ghom or RG. I'm talking about avg eDPS thrughout a rift. Where you gotta kill 450 units as fast as possible.
Sure, it could gain more CDR. But it'd destroy the purpose of the spec, and it wouldn't make it any stronger (as already mentioned previously). The fact that everything has to be "something-archon" to you is the main issue here, really. You want the Archon (and who doesn't?), but you put too much emphasis on optimising it's uptime (as mentioned about five times), compared to using it as a cooldown and focusing on optimising your play OUTSIDE of archon. Also, the fact that my MM-ignites oneshot those white mobs that I have to kill to get through the rifts (or, in worst case, takes maybe 4 shots for the really big ones) means that going for more archon to do anything but kill elites is futile.
Extremely gear dependent? You can acquire the Helm, Chest, Shoulder, Legs, Boots, Gloves and Weapon in a matter of hours by farming materials. Meanwhile, vyrs and cindercoat and proper magefist can take days/weeks to obtain. Again, you've been disproven. 9/10 of your facts are wrong, misleading or lacking info about the class. Now, go somewhere else to troll or stay away from the Wizard Class Forum if you don't know the class. Fool.
Your last hurrah, and where you make yourself look like a complete moron for calling me a fool. As I already pointed out (this section sort of fills in under the whole "LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL" one you made, but apparantly organising isn't your strong suit, so what the hey), gear dependency is what you make it. I'm not sure what makes you think Vyrs is good for MM-ignite, as I have effectively been arguing against that as part of trying to optimise Archon, so maybe your brain got a little fried... But either way, as already said, those are the three most important items in the build. Only MIrrorball is the "required" one as you yourself pointed out. Your build needs you to get specific set plans, get CDR on a bunch of items, and dependant on the setup, vyrs. But your entire build is shit if you can't get enough gear to lower your CDR enough. You'll sit outside of archon and do fuck all damage, waiting for the cooldown, or hope you run into a shrine, if you can't get every piece of your gear properly rolled. Meanwhile, all I need is a mirrorball, a pair of extremely common gloves, and if I want to use meteors as my spender, an uncommon chest. Ok then.
So, let us recap considering you seem so intent to tell me off, and that 9/10 of my facts are supposedly wrong:
1: You think a single hotfix = a bajillion different hotfixes. Wrong.
2: You think MM-ignite had it's stacking damage component removed from the extra missiles. Wrong.
3: You accuse me of not understanding basic math, and then go on to completly neglect the fact that if you want one kind of stat, you have to sacrifice another stat - yet assume that your damage output will remain the same. Wrong.
4: You keep accusing me of stating things that I never have. Exhibits A and B:
A: Accusing me of stating Ignite is the best spell wizards have (when what I said was that there was no comparable spam-able spell), and then going on to list arcane spenders that you by default can't keep "spamming".
B: Stating that my comment about not being as gear dependant equals the same as not having any gear.
5: You somehow think that if you have 4 players in a game (and I quote): "the enemies do also have WAY more damage.", when in reality, the only thing that changes between 1, 2, 3 and 4 players are the monsters healthpool, and NOT their damage (granted, for the first month perhaps even two? I don't full recall, Inferno did have scaling dmg per-player, but they did away with that and it never made a return).
So, all in all, if I'd have to take a guess at who the fool is, I believe it'd end up being you. Take your elitist attitude back to your precious hardcore community, and actually do a minimum of research, instead of being an ignorant douche, and we can perhaps have a civil discussion again. Clearly you don't know even half of what you think you know, so perhaps do some reading up till next time.
Yes, MM/Conflag works. Yes, it works on T6. No, it's not the best build (especially if it uses/relies on Unity; I do not consider any build "best" when Unity tricks are involved). It could be the best in terms of being simple to arrange. It gets the job done and that's about it. Likewise, MM/Conflag with Archon works, too. Concept is the same. Cast, cast something else with the situation calls for it.
Many experienced wizards who regularly run T6 already agree that Mirrorball is basically a simple "jumpstart" item for anyone looking to break into higher difficulty levels. Same with the Unity trick. Great, you get the MIrrorball, all you need is fire/MM gear and get that MM stacking going. Great, you get two Unities and any one immortal follower item and there's 50% mitigation right there without any additional damage reduction gear. Simple. Anything beyond that is min/maxing like any other spec.
All other T6 viable specs require sets of items, insanely rare ones (e.g. Wand of Woh, RoRG), a mix of CDR and/or RCR all over the place, which usually require substantial paragon points included to make up for lost stats on gear. Once properly set up, though, those types of build are far more bursty and powerful than simple straightforward Conflagrate (see arcane variants of WoW builds with Time Bomb, AT-Archon specs, etc.). Speaking of Time Bomb builds... I need to set one up. With Harrington, that's constant 90-100M crits per Explosive Blast alone with sufficient elite bonus, arcane and EB bonuses on gear.
But if you want something relatively easy to set up and straightforward to play, then go with a MM-Conflag build. That's what this is.
Edit: Simple/easy to set up and play for solo, I have to add. Relatively nonexistent in organized group play where things die before you can get any respectable amount of Conflag stacks up. Archon helps then, because you don't need to make the kills; just as long mobs die around you, you'll get the bonuses.
Yes, MM/Conflag works. Yes, it works on T6. No, it's not the best build (especially if it uses/relies on Unity; I do not consider any build "best" when Unity tricks are involved). It could be the best in terms of being simple to arrange. It gets the job done and that's about it. Likewise, MM/Conflag with Archon works, too. Concept is the same. Cast, cast something else with the situation calls for it.
Many experienced wizards who regularly run T6 already agree that Mirrorball is basically a simple "jumpstart" item for anyone looking to break into higher difficulty levels. Same with the Unity trick. Great, you get the MIrrorball, all you need is fire/MM gear and get that MM stacking going. Great, you get two Unities and any one immortal follower item and there's 50% mitigation right there without any additional damage reduction gear. Simple. Anything beyond that is min/maxing like any other spec.
All other T6 viable specs require sets of items, insanely rare ones (e.g. Wand of Woh, RoRG), a mix of CDR and/or RCR all over the place, which usually require substantial paragon points included to make up for lost stats on gear. Once properly set up, though, those types of build are far more bursty and powerful than simple straightforward Conflagrate (see arcane variants of WoW builds with Time Bomb, AT-Archon specs, etc.). Speaking of Time Bomb builds... I need to set one up. With Harrington, that's constant 90-100M crits per Explosive Blast alone with sufficient elite bonus, arcane and EB bonuses on gear.
But if you want something relatively easy to set up and straightforward to play, then go with a MM-Conflag build. That's what this is.
Edit: Simple/easy to set up and play for solo, I have to add. Relatively nonexistent in organized group play where things die before you can get any respectable amount of Conflag stacks up. Archon helps then, because you don't need to make the kills; just as long mobs die around you, you'll get the bonuses.
I regularly play Mirroball/Fire Archon in T6 without Unity. I normally only swap to a Unity against annoying Act 5 mob types such as Corrupted Angels. I disagree with the assertion that any other spec is better on T6, because I have all the gear and I've personally tested them. Wand of WoH requires too much CDR and sacrifices way too much damage by using sub-optimal weaker pieces of gear to remain competitve damage-wise.
I don't stream, but all you need to do is go fire up Avoid's stream and watch him play. There isn't another Wizard that streams clearing T6 as fast as he does, and if you think you can with another build as consistently as he does I would love to see it. Anyone talking about using Born's or Captain Crimsons set pieces needs to look no further than GoodIdeaGaming, who dies in T4 with his 70% CDR setup and takes 15-20 minutes to clear T6 rifts, so much so that he quit playing the class in favor of easy-mode Witch Doctor.
It's really incredible how much misinformation is being spread in this thread and many others. Blizzards casualization of this game is really starting to shine through.
Hey Kams, what's up man, it's Lupita. I've been playing this build since before you were as you know and I just wanted to make a few comments about it.Here's my diabloprogress for reference: http://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/lupita-1542/Heylia/17671528
The only thing I'm really missing is a fire trifecta amulet, better RoRG, and Witching Hour instead of Harringtons, and I believe that the setup I'm using is the absolute most optimal one, and I'm fairly certain it's the same setup that you are using. I see some Wizards using Tals, or using Vyr's Gloves instead of magefists, and while if you need to do those things because you don't have the gear that's certainly fine, it's going to nerf your damage with this build considerably.
I also want to mention that I've been paying a lot of attention to Avoidlol, who is a twitch streamer, and the only twitch streamer other than yourself that really knows what's up on a Wizard. If you want to see a streamer that plays at the same level as Kams with this build I highly recommend checking him out.
You've pretty much nailed everything here, but I disagree with some of the paragon stat allocations, that being offense and defense. I firmly believe through extensive testing that these are the most optimal settings for those, taking into account a high end gear-set:
offense: critical hit damage > attack speed > crit hit chance > cooldown reduction
explanation: I firmly believe that attempting to stack cooldown reduction with this spec is a mistake. You want to get CDR on shoulders, Mirrorball, and the gem from your helm, and obviously Evocation. This gives you around 48-50% which gives you more than enough sustainability in T6. Attempting to get 60-70% CDR nerfs your damage too much. I believe that setting your gear up in this manner makes you just as powerful out of archon form (in terms of damage, not survivability) as you are in archon form. Additionally, there's some things you can do to help cheese CDR which I'll discuss in a second. On the topic of attack speed versus crit chance, it's pretty negligible to me, but the reason I like attack speed is because of Jade Witch Doctors in group play. They kill things so fast, you need to be attacking and stacking conflag as fast as you can if you want any chance of keeping up with them, and I truly believe the Jade set is overpowered in that regard. This is combined with the fact that we already should have 55%+ crit on gear, which should be more than enough.
defense: Armor > Life > Life Regen > All Resist
explanation: We don't need paragon points into all resist. I have zero points in it and I'm rocking 1600-1800 all resist, which should be pretty typical for this gear setup around paragon 400. Armor is the best stat for T6 as we are frequently in melee range trying to maximize damage from Audacity as well as meleeing in archon form, and life provides us with the buffer we really need when we get some of those awful act 5 mobs, triple packs, or bad affixes. The life regen is also very nice when combined with your templar when soloing.
This brings me to one last thing that I want to discuss, which is the follower that you want to use when soloing T6 with this build. You absolutely want to use a templar, nothing else. I had a pretty rough time getting the correct templar relic for it, but once I did, it was a complete game-changer in terms of solo play.
Gear for your templar:
Relic: The one that makes it so he cannot die, which synergizes with Unity.
Main hand: Strength Thunderfury (rolled to cold damage) or Strength Azurewrath
You wan't this to be as high damage as possible. If you use a Thunderfury on him, make sure you reroll the damage roll to cold damage, as it will proc elemental exposure.
Neck: The Ess of Johan
This is an absolute game changer for solo play. It essentially turns your templar into a pull monk, as the passive on Johan gives him a chance on hit to pull all enemies into him and slow them by 60%. Get one with Strength, and try to get as much damage on it as you possibly can.
Rings: Unity and Bul-Kathos Wedding Band
For solo play, you want to replace your SoJ with a Unity with crit and chd. The lost 15% elite damage and elemental damage is well worth it to be able to take 50% less damage on T6. Bul-Kathos makes him drain life from enemies, which is great since he is constantly pulling enemies in with The Ess of Johan. I'm not really sure how much damage Bul-Kathos is actually doing here, so you could replace this with a MF ring, Leorics, or a Puzzle ring if you wanted, it probably doesn't matter that much.
Shield: I'm open to suggestions for this. Currently I'm just using a level 60 stormshield because I just put my templar together and I don't have anything. I'm inclined to think that you just want any shield with giant strength + 10% crit chance + a socket, but if there's any shields out there with sweet passives I'm open to suggestions for sure.
Skills: Heal, Loyalty, Charge, Guardian.
I can't tell you how many times he has topped me off with a heal, or guardian has gone off and saved me on a bad pack. These are definitely the skills you want, the other skills are useless.
Before I end my little rant here, I also want to mention some items that you want to keep in your inventory to swap to in certain situations.
Trang-Ouls Coils: Has a passive that lowers the duration of your cooldowns by 50-60 seconds depending on the roll whenever you use a health shrine. You can frequently use these to reset your archon cooldown during rifts, allowing you to play much more aggressively.
Warzuchan (sp?) Armguards: The ones that give you a stacking speed buff when you destroy a breakable object. Pop these on when you hit a conduit shrine and have fun killing everything on the level.
Nemesis Bracers: everyone knows about these, but I thought I'd list them anyway.
Mara's, Talisman of Aranoch, Countess Julia's, etc: These things can be so good against rift guardians and shitty packs. For example, the tentacle rift boss that shoots out poison literally can't do damage to you if you put a Mara's on. Hold onto these, even if they are bad rolls. Ideally you want to get a fire trifecta Countess Julia's and use that as your main neck. It seems to me that Arcane is the most common monster affix, and when you stand on the ball of a arcane beam with countess julia's on, your health won't move. no matter how many mobs are on you.
Homing Pads: Slap them on whenever you need to get back to town and toy have stuff on you obviously.
The Burning Axe of Sankriss: Depending on the roll you get, this weapon is much better than Thunderfury on a single target (i.e. a Rift Guardian). Thunderfury is definitely the way to go for all aoe packs though.
I hope you guys found some of this information useful, and thanks for this thread Kams. I truly believe this is the best end-game spec for Wizards. I've stopped trying to explain to people why Wand of WoH is bad. Eventually they will get one and see for themselves how slow and un-survivable it is on higher torments compared to this build.
Your logic on paragon point allocation on defense is flawed. Armor does not affect melee dmg only, which is what you make it sound like. If you are trying to say that because we are in close range we take more damage, then whether you should put points in armor or resistances first depends on their current level. You will gain different % of dmg reduction from either given the diminishing returns, so go for what is most efficient. Always taking synergy from other skills/passives into account.
Also the enchantress is quite a sweet follower as well if your surviviability is good. Give her a furnace CDR items and an Ess of Johan and she can work wonders; the armor buff which slows melee attackers is also great for high torments. Wish they would fix her AI so she runs around less though. Also easier to gear her since you ll have loads of int items :p. Items with sockets are ideal for followers since they gain a huge effect from the main stat btw.
I'm talking about end-game gear, and when considering the correct end-game gear for this spec my paragon allocation is 100% correct. I'm quite aware that armor is flat damage reduction, not just melee. The largest problem that a Wizard has is actually when in archon form with slow time up against Electrified, and armor will actually do more for you against that than lightning resist.
I have a geared enchantress and the Templar is miles better, mainly because he throws tons of healing at you, it isn't even close. Against Rift bosses i personally equip a Furnace with a diamond in it, there's no need to have an enchantress with it when you could have a Templar that is better in every other situation.
Quote from Hilbs17
I regularly play Mirroball/Fire Archon in T6 without Unity. I normally only swap to a Unity against annoying Act 5 mob types such as Corrupted Angels. I disagree with the assertion that any other spec is better on T6, because I have all the gear and I've personally tested them. Wand of WoH requires too much CDR and sacrifices way too much damage by using sub-optimal weaker pieces of gear to remain competitve damage-wise.
I don't stream, but all you need to do is go fire up Avoid's stream and watch him play. There isn't another Wizard that streams clearing T6 as fast as he does, and if you think you can with another build as consistently as he does I would love to see it. Anyone talking about using Born's or Captain Crimsons set pieces needs to look no further than GoodIdeaGaming, who dies in T4 with his 70% CDR setup and takes 15-20 minutes to clear T6 rifts, so much so that he quit playing the class in favor of easy-mode Witch Doctor.
It's really incredible how much misinformation is being spread in this thread and many others. Blizzards casualization of this game is really starting to shine through.
Not sure who you're directing your words toward, but I never said any of those builds are tops for anything. Favor lies in Conflag-Fire Archon, of course, I used that build for a while myself and finalized it right when 2.0.5 launched. There are various builds you can use for T6 and much of anyone's success lies in density, mob types, shrines/pylons, and map layouts. Clear times really don't say much. One Rift may take 6 minutes to clear while another takes 10. Someone else may take 10-15 with slightly inferior gear with the same build all because of what he/she rolled for a Rift (no Conduit, took a wrong turn in one level, got Infernal Maiden while another guy got Stonesinger, etc.). As a side note, when I personally time my runs, I do not activate any shrines or pylons and clear with just my character alone.
There are pros and cons to every build. There are some things Conflag builds and their variants are good for and some situations where the builds are just meh at best (e.g. terrible for organized party games). There are some things any Archon-based builds are good for and some situations where the builds blow (terrible against single targets). WoW-based builds can be exceptional for certain situations and perform poorly in others.
Quote from Hilbs17
I regularly play Mirroball/Fire Archon in T6 without Unity. I normally only swap to a Unity against annoying Act 5 mob types such as Corrupted Angels. I disagree with the assertion that any other spec is better on T6, because I have all the gear and I've personally tested them. Wand of WoH requires too much CDR and sacrifices way too much damage by using sub-optimal weaker pieces of gear to remain competitve damage-wise.
I don't stream, but all you need to do is go fire up Avoid's stream and watch him play. There isn't another Wizard that streams clearing T6 as fast as he does, and if you think you can with another build as consistently as he does I would love to see it. Anyone talking about using Born's or Captain Crimsons set pieces needs to look no further than GoodIdeaGaming, who dies in T4 with his 70% CDR setup and takes 15-20 minutes to clear T6 rifts, so much so that he quit playing the class in favor of easy-mode Witch Doctor.
It's really incredible how much misinformation is being spread in this thread and many others. Blizzards casualization of this game is really starting to shine through.
Not sure who you're directing your words toward, but I never said any of those builds are tops for anything. Favor lies in Conflag-Fire Archon, of course, I used that build for a while myself and finalized it right when 2.0.5 launched. There are various builds you can use for T6 and much of anyone's success lies in density, mob types, shrines/pylons, and map layouts. Clear times really don't say much. One Rift may take 6 minutes to clear while another takes 10. Someone else may take 10-15 with slightly inferior gear with the same build all because of what he/she rolled for a Rift (no Conduit, took a wrong turn in one level, got Infernal Maiden while another guy got Stonesinger, etc.). As a side note, when I personally time my runs, I do not activate any shrines or pylons and clear with just my character alone.
There are pros and cons to every build. There are some things Conflag builds and their variants are good for and some situations where the builds are just meh at best (e.g. terrible for organized party games). There are some things any Archon-based builds are good for and some situations where the builds blow (terrible against single targets). WoW-based builds can be exceptional for certain situations and perform poorly in others.
Wasn't directing my comments at anyone in-particular. I'm not sure I understand your comment about Conflag/Archon builds not being good in organized group games unless I'm misunderstanding you, as it is the best in that situation.
However, you do bring up a good underlying issue. I believe that Wizards are quite underpowered in groups compared to most other classes. Sure, we bring a lot of damage buffs via strongarms, black hole, elemental exposure, etc, but so do other classes. I truly believe that Wizards need a damage buff across the board to bring them in line with other classes. I'm also hopeful the future change to Firebirds will be good enough to encourage Wizards to do something other than play Archon, which is currently the one and only viable end-game option.
Truth-be-told, the only reason that people believe that Wand of Woh is an end-game weapon is because it is incredibly rare and overhyped. There doesn't exist a manner in which you can construct a gear-seat where an Explosive Blast build can out-damage a Fire Archon/MM build in t6, it's really just that simple. Sure, it's fun on t4/t5, but I'm the type of player who likes to optimize for end-game, and I understand the definition of end-game is different for everyone. For me, end-game is doing T6 as efficiently as possible, and for doing that, the Wand of Woh stays in my stash.
Both Hilbs17 and Jaetch have very valid points about the specs and end game. WoH creates a spec just like Mirrorball, these two items are pretty much the only two items that truly does that for the Wizard class. Each class has items or sets that create very powerful specs. What makes WoH stand out is a nostalgia feeling of how powerful EB was in Vanilla D3. The major difference between the two specs is not so much how powerful they are but the fun factor difference. True enough every spec will get boring after long use but the WoW-type (one button) spec are quite boring.
The problem with the Wizard class is they bring nothing to the table in a group. The other classes has something, some more than others, Wizards are the only class that brings nothing truly useful to the table. This creates a divide between the classes that makes Wizard players want to play solo most of the time. While playing solo there are challenges that has to be dealt with. The major challenge is the lack of support from the other classes. Wizards make up for that with powerful solo specs. (I.E. Fire/Archon and WoH)
Furthermore, while in group Archon is superior to a non-archon fire spec because of the AoE capabilities of Archon form. This is why players focus on the non optimal CDR because lets face it the power of the Archon explosion in groups is worth it for faster group clearing. This shows the divide between the classes because a standard Fire DH which is extremely powerful can spec for a wolf which trumps the power of Archon via the group buff it provides. *End Rant lol*
Both Hilbs17 and Jaetch have very valid points about the specs and end game. WoH creates a spec just like Mirrorball, these two items are pretty much the only two items that truly does that for the Wizard class. Each class has items or sets that create very powerful specs. What makes WoH stand out is a nostalgia feeling of how powerful EB was in Vanilla D3. The major difference between the two specs is not so much how powerful they are but the fun factor difference. True enough every spec will get boring after long use but the WoW-type (one button) spec are quite boring.
The problem with the Wizard class is they bring nothing to the table in a group. The other classes has something, some more than others, Wizards are the only class that brings nothing truly useful to the table. This creates a divide between the classes that makes Wizard players want to play solo most of the time. While playing solo there are challenges that has to be dealt with. The major challenge is the lack of support from the other classes. Wizards make up for that with powerful solo specs. (I.E. Fire/Archon and WoH)
Furthermore, while in group Archon is superior to a non-archon fire spec because of the AoE capabilities of Archon form. This is why players focus on the non optimal CDR because lets face it the power of the Archon explosion in groups is worth it for faster group clearing. This shows the divide between the classes because a standard Fire DH which is extremely powerful can spec for a wolf which trumps the power of Archon via the group buff it provides. *End Rant lol*
I completely disagree about Wizards bringing nothing to the table in groups. With this spec wizards bring:
- CC in the form of Black Hole on an extremely low cooldown
- 20-30% Damage for the entire group via Strongarm Bracers with an almost 100% uptime, as it is activated by Black Hole.
- 20% Damage from Elemental Exposure for the entire group (cold damage + lightning on Thunderfury, Fire, and Arcane from Spellsteal Black Hole).
- Extremely High Burst Damage on Elite Packs, especially in very dense rifts with lots of trash mobs surrounding the elite packs, allowing you to stack the Archon buff very high. In certain situations, it's not uncommon for me to 2 or 3 shot elite packs in a four person group.
So that's 40-50% damage for the entire group, excellent crowd control, and high burst damage. That being said, of course an Archon Wizard isn't going to out-damage a fully-geared Jade WD, but I believe that stacked up against any other similarly geared class/spec, that Wizards do just fine. Lately, I've been running T6 RiF groups with a Jade WD, and an EP Monk. I also personally have my own fully-geared Jade WD, and I duo quite often with the same EP monk. When we are playing as a group of three, all the extra damage to the group that my Wizard provides cuts down on clear times drastically, and generally makes the ability of the Jade Doctor to one shot packs more consistent. Personally, I believe that Wizards and Barbs need a slight damage buff across the board to bring them in-line with other classes, and possibly open up options for other specs, but I don't believe the damage gap between Wizards, and say a Demon Hunter or Crusader is as large as people might think given end-game gear.
The issue at hand isn't one of solo play versus group play, or nostalgia versus ease of play. The issue is what is better, and MM/Archon is better. Archon does more damage than Explosive Blast with Wand of Woh, I've personally tested it and I know it to be true. One spell simply doesn't match the damage output of the other. If someone wants to use a Wand of Woh build, that's great and it's certainly their perogative, and they can certainly clear T6 with it. However, any assertion that it can clear faster than an MM/Archon build given similar conditions is simply false.
So I only post this because I was so happy, and not to sound like a dick. I decided to play a fire wizard and was told to pray for a mirrorball. My hc char got it without spending any shards and as my 3rd leg drop on the char at 70. Over 700 int/vit, 10% crit, mm dmg modifier, max arcane, and 2 mm. Only thing left to do is reroll the mm damage for a higher %. Happy me!
Both Hilbs17 and Jaetch have very valid points about the specs and end game. WoH creates a spec just like Mirrorball, these two items are pretty much the only two items that truly does that for the Wizard class. Each class has items or sets that create very powerful specs. What makes WoH stand out is a nostalgia feeling of how powerful EB was in Vanilla D3. The major difference between the two specs is not so much how powerful they are but the fun factor difference. True enough every spec will get boring after long use but the WoW-type (one button) spec are quite boring.
The problem with the Wizard class is they bring nothing to the table in a group. The other classes has something, some more than others, Wizards are the only class that brings nothing truly useful to the table. This creates a divide between the classes that makes Wizard players want to play solo most of the time. While playing solo there are challenges that has to be dealt with. The major challenge is the lack of support from the other classes. Wizards make up for that with powerful solo specs. (I.E. Fire/Archon and WoH)
Furthermore, while in group Archon is superior to a non-archon fire spec because of the AoE capabilities of Archon form. This is why players focus on the non optimal CDR because lets face it the power of the Archon explosion in groups is worth it for faster group clearing. This shows the divide between the classes because a standard Fire DH which is extremely powerful can spec for a wolf which trumps the power of Archon via the group buff it provides. *End Rant lol*
I completely disagree about Wizards bringing nothing to the table in groups. With this spec wizards bring:
- CC in the form of Black Hole on an extremely low cooldown
- 20-30% Damage for the entire group via Strongarm Bracers with an almost 100% uptime, as it is activated by Black Hole.
- 20% Damage from Elemental Exposure for the entire group (cold damage + lightning on Thunderfury, Fire, and Arcane from Spellsteal Black Hole).
- Extremely High Burst Damage on Elite Packs, especially in very dense rifts with lots of trash mobs surrounding the elite packs, allowing you to stack the Archon buff very high. In certain situations, it's not uncommon for me to 2 or 3 shot elite packs in a four person group.
So that's 40-50% damage for the entire group, excellent crowd control, and high burst damage. That being said, of course an Archon Wizard isn't going to out-damage a fully-geared Jade WD, but I believe that stacked up against any other similarly geared class/spec, that Wizards do just fine. Lately, I've been running T6 RiF groups with a Jade WD, and an EP Monk. I also personally have my own fully-geared Jade WD, and I duo quite often with the same EP monk. When we are playing as a group of three, all the extra damage to the group that my Wizard provides cuts down on clear times drastically, and generally makes the ability of the Jade Doctor to one shot packs more consistent. Personally, I believe that Wizards and Barbs need a slight damage buff across the board to bring them in-line with other classes, and possibly open up options for other specs, but I don't believe the damage gap between Wizards, and say a Demon Hunter or Crusader is as large as people might think given end-game gear.
The issue at hand isn't one of solo play versus group play, or nostalgia versus ease of play. The issue is what is better, and MM/Archon is better. Archon does more damage than Explosive Blast with Wand of Woh, I've personally tested it and I know it to be true. One spell simply doesn't match the damage output of the other. If someone wants to use a Wand of Woh build, that's great and it's certainly their perogative, and they can certainly clear T6 with it. However, any assertion that it can clear faster than an MM/Archon build given similar conditions is simply false.
When I say nothing I am talking in terms of special attributes, that would make a Wizard more appealing than the other classes. (This won't be the case) If nothing changes with any of the classes current balance we can expect Tiered rifts to be comprised of WD's, Monks, and DH's. Each class has something specific they bring that other classes cannot. That is what I meant by Wizards offer little in terms special abilities. Sure a Wizard can equip strongarm bracers but so can a monk. The difference is a monk can also bring Cyclone Strike and Exploding Palm. These two abilities greatly reduce the difficulty of high torment levels. Furthermore, every benefit you listed about this specific spec is matched in excess by one class. Wizards have no specialized abilities that other classes cannot provide or do better. Damage wise I believe Wizards are in a great place so I disagree with you there. When I made my comment about DH's i was saying that they are also very strong dps classes but they can bring group buff/s that the wizard cannot and/or synergies better in certain situations.
Now, when comparing MM to WoH I remain unchanged on the fact that WoH spec are played, mostly, for the fun/nostalgic aspect. The MM spec at high gear level virtually eliminates the need for Archon. It is a stronger spec and players can go pure dps instead of having to Min/Max around a CDR. Adding in Archon with some CDR ,but not enough to gimp the spec, is an added bonus. So as I said in my post in more words, I agree that MM and MM/Archon are currently the Wizards strongest specs. That said if I want to have fun outside of fast clears and big numbers (don't see why I would) then I would spec a WoH spec and remember now fun/powrful CM/WW was.
Same off hand but what about firebird set/cindercoat/magefist instead
Firebird's set contains 7 items, 3 of them are gloves, chest and offhand - there's no way to have all those items and 6p bonus, if that's what you mean.
And Firebird's set is crap anyway, even after the "buff". Having non-set +fire items with Mirrorball and new Depth Diggers is WAY more powerful on PTR. In fact, currently on PTR I can hardly convince myself to use anything other than MM/Conflag and items that buff it. Compared to MM, spenders hit like a girl. Even ridiculously buffed Mammoth Hydra isn't that useful, since it has a significant ramp-up time and sucks vs mobile mobs, unless you can stand still and face-tank them.
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glad you know your vocabulary
Here's the thing:
You are talking about a perma-archon build. Your experience with it doesn't matter fuck all, because it's not what this build is about: Repeat after me -
This build uses Archon as a cooldown to fend off hard elite packs/bosses or speed up clearing. It does NOT rely on archon.
You're also extremely stupid if you really think the only reason MM-conflag was ever worth it was because you could proc of all 3 missiles...But hey, let's hear it - what's the other 4 to 7 hotfixes that made the build null apart from not letting secondary missiles count for procs? Let's hear them, if it isn't a number you just made up in order to sound more credible. (Query: Find me a spam-able spell with 510% weapon damage that leaves a stack-able 165% wep dmg DoT on the target. Even your precious Archon's abilities are 604%, 790% and 779% weapon damage... AKA one attack from right or left clicking only slightly beats out MM, and the only reason Archon starts dealing more damage is because of the +Dmg% bonus after a kill).
So, let's say it again: No one gives a fuck about your perma archon build. You might think it's better, and you have fun using it. That does not make a build that can run T6 rifts in 10 minutes or less "bad", and it sure as hell doesn't require nearly as much gear as yours (in reality, the only thing this build is reliant on is cindercoat, magefists, and mirrorball to start dealing out heavy damage).
The fact that you're doing it with 4 wizards on hardcore doesn't matter fuck all to me. Playing with 4 chars that does exactly the same thing, when mobs only increase their HP by 40% per player doesn't exactly seem like it makes anything "harder" (Fact: If you have 4 times the damage, and only 1.6 time more HP, it gets a whole lot easier. You only die to avoidable dmg nowadays, so when your 4x wiz all move at the same time to avoid shit, it basicly becomes you playing T4, with 4x the loot at T6 drop rates). Besides, you have to tab between every window to loot after each elite pack, which would mean that you'd have archon up 100% of the time because you have to afk for 10-15 seconds in order to pick everything up. Yea, totally a valid solo method.
All that said, don't you think we're aware that fire archon is a decent build? The issue I'm having right now is that you're being a douche, comming in here, assuming that the OP is wrong in what he's written in his build setup, JUST BECAUSE IT ISN'T THE MAXIMUM OUTPUT ACCORDING TO *YOU* - someone who multiboxes, thus not getting what this build is really "good" for.
So, instead of hijacking a thread that has nothing to do with your extremely gear dependant, precious archon build, go ahead and make your own. And derp it up with your four wizards while you're at it. It doesn't really make anyone impressed.
You clearly came here to start a fight, or you wouldn't start going on a tangent on something completly unrelated. His build doesn't focus on archon at all (it has been an afterthought with the 2.0.5 changes). If someone wanted a archon build, then they'd build TOWARDS an archon build, but that's not what this is about. Being able to transform it into an archon build if you want is all fine and such, but you still don't seem to get the point.
Sooo... Let me get this straight - your 8 nerfs are in reality ONE nerf, and one thing that has never happened? (Fun fact: All 3 missiles STILL stack up the ignite debuff. That's the entire reason this build works well and does a shitton of singletarget damage).
And as mentioned a second ago - mirrorballs extra missiles not counting in proc coefficients was *one* nerf. Not a ton of seperate nerfs (which you even sort-of admit in the second part of that quote: A lot of proc coefficients was cut) - So: one nerf, and one thing that isn't true. Gotcha. Where's the remaining 6?
And Arcane Torrent/Disintegrate are both arcane *spenders*, which cannot be spammed endlessly the same way MM can. Likewise, they do not have a 165% wep dmg dot that stacks up every cast (turning into far more than both the spells you mentioned).
I am well aware of how powerfull archon is, but for you to go ahead and say the spec is "wrong" because it isn't focused on always being in archon is just fucking asine. I think that's what you don't get - I'm well aware a perma archon build is probably going to be stronger, BUT THAT WASN'T THE FOCUS OF THE GUIDE - YOU CAME BARGING IN HERE AND *MADE IT* ABOUT THAT.
I never claimed MM was the best. Please quote where I stated that. I asked you to find me a spam able spell with a comparable strength. I'm also aware that archon's explosion (melee range) and beam/smash can both be used together. And I'd be a fool to claim that anything wiz has can compare with an archon while in it, because of the fact that it's the class' strongest cooldown. I never claimed this spec was stronger. I said that this spec is fully T6 solo viable and less gear dependant.
No. That's where you're wrong, though. That's where this spec differs from your view of what "EVERYONE HAS TO DO TO NOT SUCK". You want Archon up as much as possible. I have said it what, three times? so far. I'll say it again:
This build relies on Magic Missile as your main nuke, and has the option to take Archon as a cooldown to deal with elites that'd otherwise be harder (maybe you don't like dealing with wallers because MM doesn't break through walls outside of kulle-aid). But since you bring in basic algebra, let me set up some math for you that you apparantly do not understand:
In order to get, say, 65% cool down reduction, you will need:
12.5% Helm gem (losing out on either: 23% life-41% magic find).
20% passive slot (losing out on either - 17% dmg reduc, 6% crit, 10-20% dmg from EE, 15% dmg from audacity).
And now, in order to gain 32.5% more, you need:
8% shoulder (losing out on either 400 armor, 100 all ress, or 20% AOE-damage).
8% gloves (losing 7% IAS - which is a big deal for a Magic Missile build, because you rely on stacking up the ignite fast for higher HP mobs).
The remaining 16.5% comes down to if you want to use Vyr's or not, as you could get 10% from Cpt crimsons. Either way, Vyrs is 20% fire damage lost. Borns loses you out on a good weapon, or 20% fire dmg with the chest. You get the idea. There's the rings as alternatives, where you suddenly can't use a Unity+SoJ if you are using set bonuses (which then loses you out on 100% toughness +12-15% elite dmg, vs 20% fire dmg and 30% elite dmg). Oh, and if you get CDR on those, you lose some of the biggest stats you have (crit/critdmg).
Getting CDR on weapon is a no-go aswell, as 10% weapon damage is probably the single biggest increase in the entire game for your damage.
There's also your source, I guess, but then you'd lose out on 750 vit or 15% magic missile damage. Basicly, also a shitton.
My point is: By the end of getting your 65% or so CDR, atleast if you want to use Vyrs, you have lost about half of your output (be it through lost elemental/elite dmg on SoJ, Cinder/Magefists, and other DPS stats sac'd for CDR) or half of your toughness (if unity) - both choises also has minor effects on the other side, of course (23% life gem lost while losing dps, losing elite dmg on unity with RoRG). Sure, you might be doing 1383% for the duration of archon and have 50% uptime on Archon, but you have to realise that when you have lost so many DPS stats, you're not actually doing 1383% damage instead of 510%+165%stacking dot - you're doing about 700-800%, and outside of archon, you'll likewise suffer in terms of output. A hybrid spec is all fine and dandy, but that's not what this was about, and turning everything into an archon hybrid just to have the option is silly.
I'm afraid that I don't quite is as into this game that I play with a ton of addons, so I can't help you there. I would, however, love to see you quote me saying this is "the best spec with the highest dps" anywhere. You seem to be putting words in my mouth, so maybe you should just STFU and actually start reading instead of being a douche? Or is that too hard for you :s?
P.S. - I already explained you the difference between having four geared characters running around doing something vs one. Of course shit is going to die before you blink. That's the entire point of playing in groups. The mobs do not grow stronger at the same rate as the group. They aren't gaining 100% hp per new char joining, and they gain zero damage. You can get away with a shitton of stuff you wouldn't be able to do nearly as easily in a solo game, which is why the whole multiboxing premise doesn't really compare to solo experiences.
I can, however, use ALGEBRA to draw you up a quick calculation -
My MM-Ignites hit for about 10M per, each cast of 3 balls adding a DoT that ticks 4 times over 3 seconds for another 10M total. This DoT is refreshed by each cast.
I do 2x casts a second (long live attack speed).
This means 60M from 6x MM-Ignites, or 60M E-DPS, before the DoT.
The DoT adds 20M damage to the pool per second. 20M 1s, 40M 2s, 60M 3s and so forth. Basic stuff. This means that by the time I have casted six times, I am doing 60M damage per second, along with having a DoT running for 60M damage over 3 seconds (or 20M). So, in order to reach 100M E-DPS, I need to cast 18 times, or attack for nine seconds. Anything after that keeps improving it at a rate of 20M more dmg into the pool per second, untill you let it run out. All the above, I do realise, does not factor in that this has been calculated assuming critical hits. With a 73.5% crit rate (sadly, losing .5% on neck and 1% on gloves) I guess you can go ahead and multiply the above numbers by 0.735 and get the "correct" measurements. The point is, I'm not even sure if 100M e-dps is anything worth mentioning (as I don't use your addons or even is as into this as you), but the ramp up is about 12 seconds to reach that level.
That said, most packs has 500-600M health. So that's under 10 seconds to kill them off if they all get hit by the missiles (so let's say 10 seconds to account for not hitting perfectly etc). Sure, it's not enough to reach that potential. On the other hand, I'm not sitting 50% of the time doing half of that output because Archon is on CD.
You mistake "not gear dependant" with "don't need proper gear". Let me explain you the difference:
If you are wearing Magefists, Cindercoat and Mirrorball as your 3 core items, the: Pants, Helm, Bracers, Shoulders, weapon, boots, neck, and rings are largely irrellevant. You don't need to farm a RoRG for set bonuses (but it helps). You don't need to farm Vyrs set pieces. You could wear blackthornes as long as it had relevant stats, and the 3 items would still carry the build. Heck, as you say yourself, the Mirrorball is really the only thing that is *needed* for the build. I just consider the cindercoat and magefists to be the second and third most important in the spec. Sure, you'll want shoulders that has int and some other stats on them. You'll want a helm with crit and int. You'll be dumb not to get that in any spec, I'm sure we agree. What you don't need, is to hunt for set items, you don't need to hunt for items with CDR, and you don't have a threshold where the spec suddenly "clicks". As you say yourself, you want more than 60% CDR for the spec to work very well. There's no such "threshold" here. That is what I mean by "gear dependant" - you need a shit ton of CDR gear, each on a piece that has to be found/crafted.
I have no interest in either multiboxing, or HC. I find this game quite relaxing in between raids in WoW, and got the main game for free with my annual pass, and bought the expansion with RMAH money. I don't intend to spend more money on it :).That said, for someone who thinks they're knowledgeable about everything, you have really not read up on jack shit. If you were to go ahead and test it for yourself, or even do a quick search on the internet, you would know that the only thing that increases when you have multiple players is the health of the monsters.
What you apparantly do not seem to understand, is that this means you have far less damage going around. Anything that is not specificly AOE-damage is only going to hit one player, who has a fourth of the groups health. Instead of everything, no matter if it is AOE or not, hitting all the players (one person) for however much damage. Considering that all unavoidable damage is largely singletarget, and almost all AOE damage is completly avoidable, that's a pretty fucking big deal. The only AOE-unavoidable I can think of would be Jailer.
But put it this way - you clearly think you're right, and somehow think that your way is the correct way because you are willing to throw money on multiboxing and prefer hardcore. Not much I can do to change your mind then, oh mighty one. I'm afraid that all I can do compared to your skillz of multiboxing in the frightful hardcore enviroment, is research and apply logic rather than jump to conclusions. Perhaps if you'd tried out a mirrorball before going on a rampage, you'd have known that all 3 missiles stack the damage. Or that you take far less damage overall in a 4 person game than a 1 person game, compared to the available health (Fun fact: This is why Blizzard isn't fixing the Unity-trinity of 2x unity, 1x immortal follower. Having that combo essentially makes you as durable as if you were playing in a 2 person team as you take half the damage).
No, I don't box I'm afraid. Sadly, I base my estimation on personal experience, which actually includes caring about the loot that monsters drop (which means picking up everything and salvaging it. I am on +150 aughild helms at this point, with the best one being 650 int, 640 vit, socket and crit - give me one at +700 int/vit or with gold find%, and I'll be happy, but nope. 90 Veileds per). If you just zerg through everything untill you find a legendary and hear a ding from whatever addon it is that warns you guys about that, then I guess it'll be faster. Personally, I'd imagine it would take me 2-3 seconds to tab and pick up loot on each char after every pack. Which is in line with the 10-15 second estimation. So... How exactly do you like, get gems/veileds/essence to craft etc everything on your chars :<? Can't trade it from the main one.
And remember - your "point of view" is far from the norm. If we made a poll to ask how many people are multiboxing 4 characters and how many are playing just the one, I'm willing to bet that we'll get more people who play on just the one char. Which sort of means that how *you* play might be the most effective when multiboxing (leaving loot etc behind), but it's not how most people WILL be playing. Doesn't matter either way, as it was just a nod towards how if you spend time picking up loot between packs, Archon will seem stronger, as it gets time to cool off in that duration.
Sure, it could gain more CDR. But it'd destroy the purpose of the spec, and it wouldn't make it any stronger (as already mentioned previously). The fact that everything has to be "something-archon" to you is the main issue here, really. You want the Archon (and who doesn't?), but you put too much emphasis on optimising it's uptime (as mentioned about five times), compared to using it as a cooldown and focusing on optimising your play OUTSIDE of archon. Also, the fact that my MM-ignites oneshot those white mobs that I have to kill to get through the rifts (or, in worst case, takes maybe 4 shots for the really big ones) means that going for more archon to do anything but kill elites is futile.
Your last hurrah, and where you make yourself look like a complete moron for calling me a fool. As I already pointed out (this section sort of fills in under the whole "LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL" one you made, but apparantly organising isn't your strong suit, so what the hey), gear dependency is what you make it. I'm not sure what makes you think Vyrs is good for MM-ignite, as I have effectively been arguing against that as part of trying to optimise Archon, so maybe your brain got a little fried... But either way, as already said, those are the three most important items in the build. Only MIrrorball is the "required" one as you yourself pointed out. Your build needs you to get specific set plans, get CDR on a bunch of items, and dependant on the setup, vyrs. But your entire build is shit if you can't get enough gear to lower your CDR enough. You'll sit outside of archon and do fuck all damage, waiting for the cooldown, or hope you run into a shrine, if you can't get every piece of your gear properly rolled. Meanwhile, all I need is a mirrorball, a pair of extremely common gloves, and if I want to use meteors as my spender, an uncommon chest. Ok then.
So, let us recap considering you seem so intent to tell me off, and that 9/10 of my facts are supposedly wrong:
1: You think a single hotfix = a bajillion different hotfixes. Wrong.
2: You think MM-ignite had it's stacking damage component removed from the extra missiles. Wrong.
3: You accuse me of not understanding basic math, and then go on to completly neglect the fact that if you want one kind of stat, you have to sacrifice another stat - yet assume that your damage output will remain the same. Wrong.
4: You keep accusing me of stating things that I never have. Exhibits A and B:
A: Accusing me of stating Ignite is the best spell wizards have (when what I said was that there was no comparable spam-able spell), and then going on to list arcane spenders that you by default can't keep "spamming".
B: Stating that my comment about not being as gear dependant equals the same as not having any gear.
5: You somehow think that if you have 4 players in a game (and I quote): "the enemies do also have WAY more damage.", when in reality, the only thing that changes between 1, 2, 3 and 4 players are the monsters healthpool, and NOT their damage (granted, for the first month perhaps even two? I don't full recall, Inferno did have scaling dmg per-player, but they did away with that and it never made a return).
So, all in all, if I'd have to take a guess at who the fool is, I believe it'd end up being you. Take your elitist attitude back to your precious hardcore community, and actually do a minimum of research, instead of being an ignorant douche, and we can perhaps have a civil discussion again. Clearly you don't know even half of what you think you know, so perhaps do some reading up till next time.
/served.
Yes, MM/Conflag works. Yes, it works on T6. No, it's not the best build (especially if it uses/relies on Unity; I do not consider any build "best" when Unity tricks are involved). It could be the best in terms of being simple to arrange. It gets the job done and that's about it. Likewise, MM/Conflag with Archon works, too. Concept is the same. Cast, cast something else with the situation calls for it.
Many experienced wizards who regularly run T6 already agree that Mirrorball is basically a simple "jumpstart" item for anyone looking to break into higher difficulty levels. Same with the Unity trick. Great, you get the MIrrorball, all you need is fire/MM gear and get that MM stacking going. Great, you get two Unities and any one immortal follower item and there's 50% mitigation right there without any additional damage reduction gear. Simple. Anything beyond that is min/maxing like any other spec.
All other T6 viable specs require sets of items, insanely rare ones (e.g. Wand of Woh, RoRG), a mix of CDR and/or RCR all over the place, which usually require substantial paragon points included to make up for lost stats on gear. Once properly set up, though, those types of build are far more bursty and powerful than simple straightforward Conflagrate (see arcane variants of WoW builds with Time Bomb, AT-Archon specs, etc.). Speaking of Time Bomb builds... I need to set one up. With Harrington, that's constant 90-100M crits per Explosive Blast alone with sufficient elite bonus, arcane and EB bonuses on gear.
But if you want something relatively easy to set up and straightforward to play, then go with a MM-Conflag build. That's what this is.
Edit: Simple/easy to set up and play for solo, I have to add. Relatively nonexistent in organized group play where things die before you can get any respectable amount of Conflag stacks up. Archon helps then, because you don't need to make the kills; just as long mobs die around you, you'll get the bonuses.
Armory | YouTube | Twitter | Clan Site
I don't stream, but all you need to do is go fire up Avoid's stream and watch him play. There isn't another Wizard that streams clearing T6 as fast as he does, and if you think you can with another build as consistently as he does I would love to see it. Anyone talking about using Born's or Captain Crimsons set pieces needs to look no further than GoodIdeaGaming, who dies in T4 with his 70% CDR setup and takes 15-20 minutes to clear T6 rifts, so much so that he quit playing the class in favor of easy-mode Witch Doctor.
It's really incredible how much misinformation is being spread in this thread and many others. Blizzards casualization of this game is really starting to shine through.
I have a geared enchantress and the Templar is miles better, mainly because he throws tons of healing at you, it isn't even close. Against Rift bosses i personally equip a Furnace with a diamond in it, there's no need to have an enchantress with it when you could have a Templar that is better in every other situation.
There are pros and cons to every build. There are some things Conflag builds and their variants are good for and some situations where the builds are just meh at best (e.g. terrible for organized party games). There are some things any Archon-based builds are good for and some situations where the builds blow (terrible against single targets). WoW-based builds can be exceptional for certain situations and perform poorly in others.
Armory | YouTube | Twitter | Clan Site
However, you do bring up a good underlying issue. I believe that Wizards are quite underpowered in groups compared to most other classes. Sure, we bring a lot of damage buffs via strongarms, black hole, elemental exposure, etc, but so do other classes. I truly believe that Wizards need a damage buff across the board to bring them in line with other classes. I'm also hopeful the future change to Firebirds will be good enough to encourage Wizards to do something other than play Archon, which is currently the one and only viable end-game option.
Truth-be-told, the only reason that people believe that Wand of Woh is an end-game weapon is because it is incredibly rare and overhyped. There doesn't exist a manner in which you can construct a gear-seat where an Explosive Blast build can out-damage a Fire Archon/MM build in t6, it's really just that simple. Sure, it's fun on t4/t5, but I'm the type of player who likes to optimize for end-game, and I understand the definition of end-game is different for everyone. For me, end-game is doing T6 as efficiently as possible, and for doing that, the Wand of Woh stays in my stash.
The problem with the Wizard class is they bring nothing to the table in a group. The other classes has something, some more than others, Wizards are the only class that brings nothing truly useful to the table. This creates a divide between the classes that makes Wizard players want to play solo most of the time. While playing solo there are challenges that has to be dealt with. The major challenge is the lack of support from the other classes. Wizards make up for that with powerful solo specs. (I.E. Fire/Archon and WoH)
Furthermore, while in group Archon is superior to a non-archon fire spec because of the AoE capabilities of Archon form. This is why players focus on the non optimal CDR because lets face it the power of the Archon explosion in groups is worth it for faster group clearing. This shows the divide between the classes because a standard Fire DH which is extremely powerful can spec for a wolf which trumps the power of Archon via the group buff it provides. *End Rant lol*
- CC in the form of Black Hole on an extremely low cooldown
- 20-30% Damage for the entire group via Strongarm Bracers with an almost 100% uptime, as it is activated by Black Hole.
- 20% Damage from Elemental Exposure for the entire group (cold damage + lightning on Thunderfury, Fire, and Arcane from Spellsteal Black Hole).
- Extremely High Burst Damage on Elite Packs, especially in very dense rifts with lots of trash mobs surrounding the elite packs, allowing you to stack the Archon buff very high. In certain situations, it's not uncommon for me to 2 or 3 shot elite packs in a four person group.
So that's 40-50% damage for the entire group, excellent crowd control, and high burst damage. That being said, of course an Archon Wizard isn't going to out-damage a fully-geared Jade WD, but I believe that stacked up against any other similarly geared class/spec, that Wizards do just fine. Lately, I've been running T6 RiF groups with a Jade WD, and an EP Monk. I also personally have my own fully-geared Jade WD, and I duo quite often with the same EP monk. When we are playing as a group of three, all the extra damage to the group that my Wizard provides cuts down on clear times drastically, and generally makes the ability of the Jade Doctor to one shot packs more consistent. Personally, I believe that Wizards and Barbs need a slight damage buff across the board to bring them in-line with other classes, and possibly open up options for other specs, but I don't believe the damage gap between Wizards, and say a Demon Hunter or Crusader is as large as people might think given end-game gear.
The issue at hand isn't one of solo play versus group play, or nostalgia versus ease of play. The issue is what is better, and MM/Archon is better. Archon does more damage than Explosive Blast with Wand of Woh, I've personally tested it and I know it to be true. One spell simply doesn't match the damage output of the other. If someone wants to use a Wand of Woh build, that's great and it's certainly their perogative, and they can certainly clear T6 with it. However, any assertion that it can clear faster than an MM/Archon build given similar conditions is simply false.
Now, when comparing MM to WoH I remain unchanged on the fact that WoH spec are played, mostly, for the fun/nostalgic aspect. The MM spec at high gear level virtually eliminates the need for Archon. It is a stronger spec and players can go pure dps instead of having to Min/Max around a CDR. Adding in Archon with some CDR ,but not enough to gimp the spec, is an added bonus. So as I said in my post in more words, I agree that MM and MM/Archon are currently the Wizards strongest specs. That said if I want to have fun outside of fast clears and big numbers (don't see why I would) then I would spec a WoH spec and remember now fun/powrful CM/WW was.
And Firebird's set is crap anyway, even after the "buff". Having non-set +fire items with Mirrorball and new Depth Diggers is WAY more powerful on PTR. In fact, currently on PTR I can hardly convince myself to use anything other than MM/Conflag and items that buff it. Compared to MM, spenders hit like a girl. Even ridiculously buffed Mammoth Hydra isn't that useful, since it has a significant ramp-up time and sucks vs mobile mobs, unless you can stand still and face-tank them.