PANDAS IN WOW

  • #41
    Quote from proletaria
    Honestly, the game would get better if they removed a class or two (namely druids and paladins) who currently have WAY too many functional uses to balance. I think the monk sounds neat, but the way they spectacularly failed to balance the DK i'm shocked they went ahead with another hero class.


    Actually Monk is not a Hero Class. You start at level 1 like all the other classes.

    In addition, the Druid and the Paladin are very different and both provide unique combat experiences.

    I wouldn't want to loose either of them.
  • #42
    Quote from LinkX

    Actually Monk is not a Hero Class. You start at level 1 like all the other classes.


    Good to know, but another "does everything," class is troublesome all the same.

    Quote from LinkX

    In addition, the Druid and the Paladin are very different and both provide unique combat experiences.


    Unique in the same way that a mage casting frost bolts and a warlock casting shadow bolts are unique and diffirent, sure. However, both classes are essentially thematic parodies of other specs.

    Balance is essentially a warlock spec, a bit of affliction-like dots, a bit of direct damage cast-time spells. Feral(bear) druids are essentially blood dk tanks (admittedly bears came first). Feral(cat) druids are essentially rogues. Resto druids are the most unique, but they share a lot in common with priests. The extra utility druids were unique for is now largely (and necessarily) homogenized. For a long time druids were marginalized, and for most of the rest of BC/Wrath/Cata they bounced between obscenely good and must-have niche specs.

    Paladins, while not as outrageously flexible as druids, are over-extended in their own right. For years they've been default tank healers with an over-simplified and efficient rotation. Priests were almost extinct for many tiers of raiding because of just how much paladins stole the lime light. Paladin tanks have surfed a simple rotation, relativly overpowered talents, and an over-abundance of raid utility for ages. Ret paladins are a bit of a red-headed stepchild of the trio, but they've been agressively balanced.

    Personally, i'm of the opinion that classes with this much potential are silly, especially when you consider that flexability is paramount for hardmode and 10-man paradigms of pve. Dropping them both leaves two healing classes, plus the monk, which puts us back at three. Three potential healing classes(priest, shaman, monk), three potential tanking classes (war, dk, monk), four pure dps classes (mage, lock, hunter, rogue) feels like a better balance of power to me.

    With the addition of the monk we have:
    -Classes with one role: Rogue, Hunter, Mage, Warlock
    -Classes with two roles: Priest, Warrior, Deathknight, Shaman
    -Classes with three roles: Paladin, Druid, Monk
    (I'm using roles to describe tank, dps, and healing - I don't diffirentiate between melee and ranged)

    When you stop to consider that most classes in the first two catergories have a spec that is marginalized to "pvp," (Ex. Frost mage)you realize that the paladin and druid are even further ahead of the pack in terms of flexibility and overall utility.

    Of course, those two classes aren't going to be removed and the monk is going to be in the game with MoP, but it's pretty obvious blizzard has an even more steep up-hill battle on it's hands to keep the bulk of those classes and specs on an even playing field and make sure that a minority don't fall to the wayside for a whole tier of content or more. As someone who witnessed mages benched for most of BC, Dk tanks thrown out mid-way into wrath, and paladin, shaman, druid stacking ad absurdum... I have my doubts they're up to the task.
  • #43
    Did I just kill WoW with that post?

    /smug
  • #44
    Already dibbsed my Pandaren names on my servers. Chintufat and Sumtingwong.
  • #45
    Quote from proletaria
    Unique in the same way that a mage casting frost bolts and a warlock casting shadow bolts are unique and diffirent, sure. However, both classes are essentially thematic parodies of other specs.


    I do agree that a lot of the differences between classes is starting to wane. Waterwalking now is owned by Death Knights, Charge/Feral Charge now has a Paladin version. Warlocks have their version of a priest "bubble". Etc.

    That being said, the prime difference between Mages casting Frostfire Orb and Warlocks casting Shadowbolt is that there is such a great deal more to the rotations and to the damage and etc. As for Bears, well Blood Death Knights kinda took what Bears were doing and made it their thing. (As a Bear Tank, this upsets me. Grr.)

    Quote from proletaria
    Balance is essentially a warlock spec, a bit of affliction-like dots, a bit of direct damage cast-time spells. Feral(bear) druids are essentially blood dk tanks (admittedly bears came first). Feral(cat) druids are essentially rogues. Resto druids are the most unique, but they share a lot in common with priests. The extra utility druids were unique for is now largely (and necessarily) homogenized. For a long time druids were marginalized, and for most of the rest of BC/Wrath/Cata they bounced between obscenely good and must-have niche specs.


    I'd compare Balance more to Mages then to Warlocks. Not a lot of dots but enough to point them out, and then the eclipse system changes it up so they are sufficiently different from Locks and Mages.

    And Feral Cats are actually more like Rogues that can put plate and a shield on if the 5 man tank drops and tank it until the pull is over.

    As for Resto Druids, they are like priests that have 50 versions of Renew. That's the best way I can describe them. Lol.

    As for the history of Druids, I think that we have come a long way, considering it used to be the main function of the Druid was to innervate the main healer then to cast spells or melee dps until they had mana to cast spells (Innervate was not to be used on themselves, only the main healer.)

    I think things have gotten better imo.


    Quote from proletaria
    Paladins, while not as outrageously flexible as druids, are over-extended in their own right. For years they've been default tank healers with an over-simplified and efficient rotation. Priests were almost extinct for many tiers of raiding because of just how much paladins stole the lime light. Paladin tanks have surfed a simple rotation, relativly overpowered talents, and an over-abundance of raid utility for ages. Ret paladins are a bit of a red-headed stepchild of the trio, but they've been agressively balanced.


    While I do agree that Paladin Healers are a bit strong, I wouldn't say they are obscenely strong.

    Quote from proletaria
    Personally, i'm of the opinion that classes with this much potential are silly, especially when you consider that flexability is paramount for hardmode and 10-man paradigms of pve. Dropping them both leaves two healing classes, plus the monk, which puts us back at three. Three potential healing classes(priest, shaman, monk), three potential tanking classes (war, dk, monk), four pure dps classes (mage, lock, hunter, rogue) feels like a better balance of power to me.


    Well, if the developers had their way, Shamans would of been tanking today (Kinda like two specs in one tree, melee dps and tank in the Enhancement like what Druids do with Feral right now.) Nothing to do with the current discusison, just a thought.

    But yea, flexibility is good, but you also have to realize that you only have two specs (Dual Spec) and that a majority of the classes (Including Priests, Shamans, and Death Knights) would still have the same flexibility that any good Druid or Paladin would have.


    Quote from proletaria
    With the addition of the monk we have:
    -Classes with one role: Rogue, Hunter, Mage, Warlock
    -Classes with two roles: Priest, Warrior, Deathknight, Shaman
    -Classes with three roles: Paladin, Druid, Monk
    (I'm using roles to describe tank, dps, and healing - I don't diffirentiate between melee and ranged)


    And, again, the classes with three roles will have as many roles available at any given time as the classes with two roles. The difference is that they can respec and regear, saving nothing more then the time to level another character. This is a good thing for us players in my opinion.

    Quote from proletaria
    Of course, those two classes aren't going to be removed and the monk is going to be in the game with MoP, but it's pretty obvious blizzard has an even more steep up-hill battle on it's hands to keep the bulk of those classes and specs on an even playing field and make sure that a minority don't fall to the wayside for a whole tier of content or more. As someone who witnessed mages benched for most of BC, Dk tanks thrown out mid-way into wrath, and paladin, shaman, druid stacking ad absurdum... I have my doubts they're up to the task.


    They may be, or they might not be. But they are going to try. And, again, options are always a friend, never a foe.

    Quote from proletaria

    Did I just kill WoW with that post?

    /smug


    Not really. I haven't been on the forums in a while. :P

    /wipes smug away
  • #46
    YOU ARE TOO LATE, MORTAL(s)! *cackle*

    Quote from LinkX

    I think things have gotten better imo.


    Better for true hyrbids, yeah. Better overall, I am not so sure. I still view the dk and most of the 1-2 role classes as being pidgeonholed in the extreme, now that the 3-4 role hybrids are quite viable in every spec.

    Quote from LinkX

    But yea, flexibility is good, but you also have to realize that you only have two specs (Dual Spec) and that a majority of the classes (Including Priests, Shamans, and Death Knights) would still have the same flexibility that any good Druid or Paladin would have.


    Respec costs are a drop in the bucket, tbh. It's nothing more than a hearth, three mins, and a summon away from being whatever spec is desired. My paladin alternated between three specs on a regular basis (and pretty well had to because of how tightly tuned 10man content was at the beginning of cataclysm).

    Quote from LinkX

    They may be, or they might not be. But they are going to try. And, again, options are always a friend, never a foe.


    Precisely. And the fact blizzard has allowed a few classes to run-away with MANY more options than others is disturbing. It really shows a blatant disregard for class balance. Every class should be inter-dependant on others. One class being a tank/healer/dps in a cinch is bad enough. Two is worse. Three is patently absurd.

    Quote from LinkX

    Not really. I haven't been on the forums in a while. :P

    /wipes smug away


    Welcome back! =P

    Of course, I don't begrudge you for sticking to WoW. It's still an pretty decent mmo by today's (low) standard of competition. I just think blizzard is more or less dropping the ball on class balance at the moment and as i've seen this song and dance before, I can't help but point out the philosphical flaw when it comes to making balanced content.
  • #47
    Quote from proletaria
    Better for true hyrbids, yeah. Better overall, I am not so sure. I still view the dk and most of the 1-2 role classes as being pidgeonholed in the extreme, now that the 3-4 role hybrids are quite viable in every spec.


    Some classes, like the rogue, are having some problems. However, that's not to say that they are just bad and need to have other classes removed to make them good again. They need balanced, and we have seen that it is possible to do so.

    Quote from proletaria
    Respec costs are a drop in the bucket, tbh. It's nothing more than a hearth, three mins, and a summon away from being whatever spec is desired. My paladin alternated between three specs on a regular basis (and pretty well had to because of how tightly tuned 10man content was at the beginning of cataclysm).


    Yes, but all you are saving is the time to level another character up. You still have to get the gear to play the spec. You could level a mage, a blood death knight, a priest, and a rogue, or you could level a single druid. It's not difficult -at all- to level a character up, all it means is an ease of life. And considering how fucked Druids were in Vanilla and TBC, I almost laugh at the idea that people are upset about it.

    Quote from proletaria
    Precisely. And the fact blizzard has allowed a few classes to run-away with MANY more options than others is disturbing. It really shows a blatant disregard for class balance. Every class should be inter-dependant on others. One class being a tank/healer/dps in a cinch is bad enough. Two is worse. Three is patently absurd.


    If a character is built to tank, heal, and dps all in a cinch, they are built wrong and shouldn't be able to do any of those things. If I were to take my dps Paladin and run a dungeon, and the tank die, and try to off tank the pull, I'd almost guarentee you that I'd die.

    Unless, of course, you mean the idea that you can have multiple specs in a single class. In which I reply, I can have 10 characters in a single realm, and a large number of players had 8 to 10 80's relatively well geared by the end of Wrath.

    Quote from proletaria
    Welcome back! =P

    Of course, I don't begrudge you for sticking to WoW. It's still an pretty decent mmo by today's (low) standard of competition. I just think blizzard is more or less dropping the ball on class balance at the moment and as i've seen this song and dance before, I can't help but point out the philosphical flaw when it comes to making balanced content.


    I do agree that Blizzard needs a fire under their collective asses to get going on class balance. But Class balance is a tricky thing. I know I wouldn't want to do it. :/
  • #48
    Quote from LinkX

    Yes, but all you are saving is the time to level another character up. You still have to get the gear to play the spec. You could level a mage, a blood death knight, a priest, and a rogue, or you could level a single druid. It's not difficult -at all- to level a character up, all it means is an ease of life. And considering how fucked Druids were in Vanilla and TBC, I almost laugh at the idea that people are upset about it.


    This is valid on it's face, but in practice it's a fallacy obvious to any raider. You can have one character in raid and absorbing BoP drops. It's true, you can A-team, B-team, C-team, etc. and gear up multiple characters, but that is a lot of effort (much more than the admittedly easy once-and-done task of leveling). This is somewhat mitigated by 5man farming of base-tier sets, but not entirely, and certainly not if the raid content is tuned tightly at all. I'm well aware of how bad vanilla druids, shamen, and paladins were (1-trick healbots with a couple unique must-have buffs and abilities), but that's a really poor reason to have them overly represented and favored years later.

    Quote from LinkX

    I do agree that Blizzard needs a fire under their collective asses to get going on class balance. But Class balance is a tricky thing. I know I wouldn't want to do it. :/


    Yes, and unfortunately I think they're essentially giving up. The really poor job they did with the DK essentially re-enforced my opinion they were letting consistency, balance, and quality slide in order to keep up with the demand for new shiny sparkly-pony content/gear.
  • #49
    Quote from proletaria
    This is valid on it's face, but in practice it's a fallacy obvious to any raider. You can have one character in raid and absorbing BoP drops. It's true, you can A-team, B-team, C-team, etc. and gear up multiple characters, but that is a lot of effort (much more than the admittedly easy once-and-done task of leveling). This is somewhat mitigated by 5man farming of base-tier sets, but not entirely, and certainly not if the raid content is tuned tightly at all. I'm well aware of how bad vanilla druids, shamen, and paladins were (1-trick healbots with a couple unique must-have buffs and abilities), but that's a really poor reason to have them overly represented and favored years later.


    So your druid as a Guardian Tank Spec is on A team, Balance Spec on C team, and Feral DPS on B team?

    I apologize, but I still don't see the problem.

    If you mean a Druid would be taking gear or all the specs, why would any good raid leader allow that?...
  • #50
    Quote from LinkX

    If you mean a Druid would be taking gear or all the specs, why would any good raid leader allow that?...


    That is exactly what I mean. And it's painfully obvious why it's allowed and eventually inevitable that you'll fill out offsets: because the rest of the raid will have their gear, won't want a given offset piece, etc.

    Scenario1: Paladin tanks for three months with raid group, gets full healing and dps offsets to contribute when the next tier of content rolls around or if they hit a hardmode where another healer or dps is needed rather than tank.

    Scenario2: Mage dps for three months with raid group, gets full dps set and collects the odd meta-set for another spec, but contributes nothing when the raid comp has to be mixed up to progress against challenging content.

    Essentially, a pure class becomes a liability in the long-run, while hybrids become even more valued over time. The more offset pieces your hybrid character grabs (and I was frequently in 1.5 to 2 full sets of gear by the time the pures started simply defaulting me offset gear- due to the amount of oddball offset/imperfect stat gear out there) the better.
  • #51
    Quote from proletaria
    That is exactly what I mean. And it's painfully obvious why it's allowed and eventually inevitable that you'll fill out offsets: because the rest of the raid will have their gear, won't want a given offset piece, etc.

    Scenario1: Paladin tanks for three months with raid group, gets full healing and dps offsets to contribute when the next tier of content rolls around or if they hit a hardmode where another healer or dps is needed rather than tank.

    Scenario2: Mage dps for three months with raid group, gets full dps set and collects the odd meta-set for another spec, but contributes nothing when the raid comp has to be mixed up to progress against challenging content.

    Essentially, a pure class becomes a liability in the long-run, while hybrids become even more valued over time. The more offset pieces your hybrid character grabs (and I was frequently in 1.5 to 2 full sets of gear by the time the pures started simply defaulting me offset gear- due to the amount of oddball offset/imperfect stat gear out there) the better.


    If everybody has their gear, then I don't see the problem with a Druid or Paladin or Warrior or Priest getting gear for their offspec, AFTER everybody else has been geared for their main spec.

    Are Rogues and Hunters and Mages and Warlocks supposed to have higher dps then anybody else because they can only dps??
  • #52
    Quote from LinkX

    If everybody has their gear, then I don't see the problem with a Druid or Paladin or Warrior or Priest getting gear for their offspec, AFTER everybody else has been geared for their main spec.


    Except (especially in 10man) there are plenty of opportunities to fill off-sets before or during pures having their main sets. It isn't just a matter of churn, i'm talking about that off-set leather helm that the rogue won't ever use because it has -insert stat that current fotm spec doesn't want- instead of -insert optimal stat- and so on. Think of all the disenchanted loot a raid regularly churns through, even when content is still fresh. A raid well-represented with hybrids will be putting that loot to use, a raid that's heavily reliant on pures will be trashing it.

    Quote from LinkX

    Are Rogues and Hunters and Mages and Warlocks supposed to have higher dps then anybody else because they can only dps??


    That used to be the case when there was a "hybrid tax," but the hybrid tax hasn't been around since early-mid wrath (iirc) and it's certainly not around today. Right now most hybrids are on-par and many hybrids are even above a majority of pure dps specs (even if you exclude those "pvp," trees that every pure dps class seems to have).
  • #53
    In my mind the whole game has been sliding ever since they decided to put a larger focus on pvp and presented a more casual based direction.

    The changes to classes to let hybrid classes be viable needed to happen but I think they allowed too much... Ie a hybrid should never be better than a pure class... Ever... But this has been talked about to death.
    The pvp changes are coming more and more often to affect the pve viability of skills... This then causes changes to the level of dmg or healing or survivability in pve... Making balance even harder to do.
    Finally the more casual approach means that blizzard need to put more and more time sinks into the game to hold over the more dedicated or to allow the casual gamer to get their purples too...

    There comes a time in evry games life when you need to look at it and realise that the peak has long since come and gone. What is left is but a shadow of a once great game... Still a nice enough looking shadow but a shadow nonetheless.
  • #54
    Quote from proletaria

    Quote from LinkX

    If everybody has their gear, then I don't see the problem with a Druid or Paladin or Warrior or Priest getting gear for their offspec, AFTER everybody else has been geared for their main spec.


    Except (especially in 10man) there are plenty of opportunities to fill off-sets before or during pures having their main sets. It isn't just a matter of churn, i'm talking about that off-set leather helm that the rogue won't ever use because it has -insert stat that current fotm spec doesn't want- instead of -insert optimal stat- and so on. Think of all the disenchanted loot a raid regularly churns through, even when content is still fresh. A raid well-represented with hybrids will be putting that loot to use, a raid that's heavily reliant on pures will be trashing it.


    And with Reforging, the idea of a Druid taking a helm for offspec is less likely then a Rogue taking it for main spec.

    It's never going to be perfect, but it's getting better, and I still don't see the reason for punishing one group of players because another group of players is playing a different class that is built differently.

    Quote from proletaria
    That used to be the case when there was a "hybrid tax," but the hybrid tax hasn't been around since early-mid wrath (iirc) and it's certainly not around today. Right now most hybrids are on-par and many hybrids are even above a majority of pure dps specs (even if you exclude those "pvp," trees that every pure dps class seems to have).


    So, again, a caster druid should do less damage then a mage because the player wants to play a mage and not a class that can multi-task?

    Should a DPS warrior also do less damage, because it can do two things and thus could be called a "hybrid"?

    "Sorry Fury Warrior, the rogue is a pure dps so we need him more."
    "Sorry Balance Druid, the mage is a pure dps so we need him more."

    Where does it stop?

    "Sorry Hunter, the Mage is more of a pure dps then you, so we need him more." Is that the next step?

    I just don't get why you should punish one group of people and reward another group simply for the character they play. Life isn't always fair, sometimes one character will be stronger, sometimes another character, that's how life works.

    I guess the hybrid tax just seems, to me at least, like really, really stupid.
  • #55
    Quote from LinkX

    Quote from proletaria

    Quote from LinkX

    If everybody has their gear, then I don't see the problem with a Druid or Paladin or Warrior or Priest getting gear for their offspec, AFTER everybody else has been geared for their main spec.


    Except (especially in 10man) there are plenty of opportunities to fill off-sets before or during pures having their main sets. It isn't just a matter of churn, i'm talking about that off-set leather helm that the rogue won't ever use because it has -insert stat that current fotm spec doesn't want- instead of -insert optimal stat- and so on. Think of all the disenchanted loot a raid regularly churns through, even when content is still fresh. A raid well-represented with hybrids will be putting that loot to use, a raid that's heavily reliant on pures will be trashing it.


    And with Reforging, the idea of a Druid taking a helm for offspec is less likely then a Rogue taking it for main spec.

    It's never going to be perfect, but it's getting better, and I still don't see the reason for punishing one group of players because another group of players is playing a different class that is built differently.

    Quote from proletaria
    That used to be the case when there was a "hybrid tax," but the hybrid tax hasn't been around since early-mid wrath (iirc) and it's certainly not around today. Right now most hybrids are on-par and many hybrids are even above a majority of pure dps specs (even if you exclude those "pvp," trees that every pure dps class seems to have).


    So, again, a caster druid should do less damage then a mage because the player wants to play a mage and not a class that can multi-task?

    Should a DPS warrior also do less damage, because it can do two things and thus could be called a "hybrid"?

    "Sorry Fury Warrior, the rogue is a pure dps so we need him more."
    "Sorry Balance Druid, the mage is a pure dps so we need him more."

    Where does it stop?

    "Sorry Hunter, the Mage is more of a pure dps then you, so we need him more." Is that the next step?

    I just don't get why you should punish one group of people and reward another group simply for the character they play. Life isn't always fair, sometimes one character will be stronger, sometimes another character, that's how life works.

    I guess the hybrid tax just seems, to me at least, like really, really stupid.


    The same can be said of classes that can only do one thing... I'm sorry mage but since you can't do dps and heal we are going to take this druid instead of you. The fact that some classes can only do one thing no matter how they spec should give them an edge in that one thing...not something so massive that it completely wipes out hybrids but rather just 5% under someone who can only perform a single role.

    At the start of wow rogues used to do the most dmg, mages less because they were doing it from a distance... Over time things have changed and now dps is all supposedly meant to be equal despite the fact that some are far away, some are in melee, some wear cloth, leather or mail... Note: the shammy has mail which absorbs more dmg than a mage, has a heal even in dps spec and can do similar dmg.... How is this fair? No downsides only plusses... Where is the mages plus in all this? Since they can only do one thing...

    Your 2nd last paragraph could equally apply to players who play a pure class... Life isn't fair... At the moment blizzard agrees with your thoughts, in time perhaps that will change and hopefully it will so that it isn't so biased towards classes that can do a pure dps classes role and have extra benefits on top...
  • #56
    Quote from LinkX

    And with Reforging, the idea of a Druid taking a helm for offspec is less likely then a Rogue taking it for main spec.

    It's never going to be perfect, but it's getting better, and I still don't see the reason for punishing one group of players because another group of players is playing a different class that is built differently.


    Reforging didn't rid us of "BiS," and itemization problems. It was a bandaid fix that made taking second-dibs not suck as much. The idea that a rogue would take an obvious feral offset item and reforge some poor stat instead of spending his dkp on BiS tier or something is way off base. Most of the time dungeon teir is more competetive. Offset pieces are certainly the forte of flexible hybrids, helping them achieve a full and workable offset asap. Blizzard probably intended it that way because they know just how much of a crutch many flexibile classes have become. If raids had to run into hardmodes without 2-3set hybrids they would get stuck in a hurry or have to start recruiting more, neither of which is more appealing than simply having a solid hyrbid backbone in the first place.

    Quote from LinkX

    So, again, a caster druid should do less damage then a mage because the player wants to play a mage and not a class that can multi-task?

    Should a DPS warrior also do less damage, because it can do two things and thus could be called a "hybrid"?

    "Sorry Fury Warrior, the rogue is a pure dps so we need him more."
    "Sorry Balance Druid, the mage is a pure dps so we need him more."

    Where does it stop?

    "Sorry Hunter, the Mage is more of a pure dps then you, so we need him more." Is that the next step?

    I just don't get why you should punish one group of people and reward another group simply for the character they play. Life isn't always fair, sometimes one character will be stronger, sometimes another character, that's how life works.

    I guess the hybrid tax just seems, to me at least, like really, really stupid.


    Yes, the hybrid tax was stupid, but the "life isn't fair," argument is even less apt. Hybrids in general are a bogus concept for a team-oriented mmo, at least in the way blizzard implemented them. I could see hyrbids working in-between classes if they had been given a few niche roles of their own, but within the trinity (tank-heal-dps) the hybrids simply took over once they were taken out of the dumpster (which happened for most of them in BC).

    If blizzard had foresight, I think they would have kept all hybrid classes to a two-role maximum. That wouldn't have been ideal for the 1-trick ponies, but at least it wouldn't have brought about the swiss-army classes. Probably something like: (Modified classes in bold)

    Paladin: Tank/Healer/Healer
    Shaman: Dps/Healer/Healer
    Druid: Dps/Dps/Tank
    Warrior: Dps/Dps/Tank
    Warlock: Dps/Dps/Dps
    Mage: Dps/Dps/Dps
    Rogue: Dps/Dps/Dps
    Hunter: Dps/Dps/Dps
    Priest: Dps/Healer/Healer
    Deathknight: Dps/Dps/Tank
    Monk: : Dps/Dps/Healer

    That leaves the game with 4 possible tanks, 4 possible healers, and 4 "pure," dps. With every class having a duplicate dps or healing spec that could be balanced for pvp. Of course, this leaves paladins bereft of a dps spec, but I think it's fairly obvious at this point ret has been one of their worst and hardest to balance spec/ideas anyhow.
  • #57
    Quote from CrusaderGT

    What I think is, they know that wow is dying so it's time to gain more of the asian market. So even if WoW dies in North America, it will still sell in China which is still a lot of business for them. Then.........they reveal TITAN!


    This would have to mean the Padaren are a new idea, or at least a new prospect for a WoW race. Neither of those are true.

    The Pandaren have had a pretty rich story for a while, have been around since Warcraft III, and were supposed to be in Burning Crusade.

    I don't see the big problem.

    There's a pretty funny mspaint picture someone made with a picture of a bunch of difference races calling them "pig men, cow men, fish men, space goats, wolf men" etc, etc...and then saying "so why the hell are you upset about panda men?" Something along those lines at least.
  • #58
    quite fun how they got ppl to pay for 1 year of wow (desperate?) right before d3 and maybe Titans soon. you know you will stop playing it, but now atleast blizzard got your money for 1 more year! mohaha
    Game Designer - Micro Design
  • #59
    Quote from Nivius

    quite fun how they got ppl to pay for 1 year of wow (desperate?) right before d3 and maybe Titans soon. you know you will stop playing it, but now atleast blizzard got your money for 1 more year! mohaha


    Yeah, anyone who took that deal is a sucker.

    (Save your money and buy skyrim)
  • #60
    the only thing keeping me from quitting wow for good is panda monks. lololol
    "once the pretty hardcore gamers we had testing inferno found it fairly difficult, we then we doubled it" -trolololol jay wilson
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