Magic find diminishing returns in D3?

  • #1
    I searched the forums and i found obsolete topics or irrelevant information.Will D3 have diminishing returns in mf?

    If yes i think it will be viable to make a party with 4 friends,1 to have the mf gear and the others will have the dps gear to clear fast the bosses and share the loot or drops uniques to everyone.

    On the other hand, Bashiok told about nephalim valor which will increase your mf and u will have the chance to drop more loot from bosses.I think these 2 contradict with each other and if both things exist,i think you need to stack up mf in one char and go farm with your friends.Except one last case it comes to my mind is the chance to synergize those 2 so you get one extra unique from bosses.

    Any thoughts are welcome.
    Anticipation of Death is worse than Death Itself
  • #2
    There has been no mention of DR on MF, and it doesn't seem reasonable to assume there would be.

    MF of all characters in a group is averaged out, so there's no benefit from only one player having high MF in the group. For example, if one player has 40% MF and other three have 0%, the group's MF is (40%+0%+0%+0%) / 4 = 10%.
  • #3
    As the above poster said blizzard haven't said anything about it so one would assume no. Also if blizzard is right about the difficulty I don't think it will be like d2 where stacking heavy mf (especialy on sorc with tal rasha or general items like shako brining a sick amount of mf while giving abit of damage) is the way to go. I might be wrong but if blizzard is right having people go all out mf won't really be beneficial (perhaps a bit of mf and ofc if there are items like shako that give decent stats and mf it would still be doable).
    So I think a lot of the d2 mindset when it comes to farming and gear choices might have to go out the window
  • #4
    I also have 1 question about mf, does it start counting by the time you start a fight or ebfore you kill something.Because people could have 2 gears 1 for dps boss for example and other for mf just to change before killing boss.since you can change items in combat.
  • #5
    Quote from IcySoul

    I also have 1 question about mf, does it start counting by the time you start a fight or ebfore you kill something.Because people could have 2 gears 1 for dps boss for example and other for mf just to change before killing boss.since you can change items in combat.


    And if it's counted when starting, then you could swap to the non-MF gear after starting the fight. I'd also like to know how Blizzard has solved this problem.
  • #6
    Quote from A1win

    There has been no mention of DR on MF, and it doesn't seem reasonable to assume there would be.

    MF of all characters in a group is averaged out, so there's no benefit from only one player having high MF in the group. For example, if one player has 40% MF and other three have 0%, the group's MF is (40%+0%+0%+0%) / 4 = 10%.


    That's what i am questioning too.With Diminishing Return in mf the more magic find you have lesser unique items will drop and more blue items will drop.So let's say for example if i pick the d2 graph of diminishing return from the wiki where the sweet spot for dropping unique items is about 200% mf and we consider one person is with mf 800% and we split it with the group we have (800%+0%+0%+0%) / 4 = 200%



    So if we have the DR we can make a party with 1 person being the mfer and the others the dpsers.

    So what about Nephalem Valor? Let's assume that bliz will make NV gives you more mf let's say 25% per killing rare champion.If if you kill 4 champions you will have in the above party total mf : (800%+100%+0%+100%0%+100%+0%+100%) / 4 = 300%

    With the above formula you are away from the sweet spot so you will not consider finding champions to kill cause you will have less chances to get a unique item.

    On the other hand if bliz decides that NV will give more chances to drop more loot, then the DR with NV synergize together and you will have more chances to drop let's say 1-2 more unique loot.These things will change the game we will play solo or with more people.
    Anticipation of Death is worse than Death Itself
  • #7
    There's been no official word on diminishing returns for Diablo III. You can assume that it will follow the same/a similar system that Diablo II had, but then again they did change an awful lot from DII to DIII.

    In DII it was very possible to stack hundreds and hundreds of MF. Perhaps in DIII MF won't be so prevalent on end game gear, and having around 250% is the norm, since that's what it was in DII anyway?
  • #8
    In end game of d3 and i am not talking about expansions,the amount of mf a char will have i assume an average of 150-300 mf so a lot of people will get uniques if the drop rate is the same with d2.I know i am talking about two different games but i think they will put eventually DR in the game.
    Anticipation of Death is worse than Death Itself
  • #9
    I just tweeted at Bashiok and said the following...

    https://twitter.com/...386151774302210

    @Bashiok Hey Bash can you tell us if there will be Diminishing Return in magic find and if yes how is gonna work with Nephalem Valor?
    Bashiok@Bashiok
    Follow

    Well I don't think it's a linear scale, if that's what you mean. We might share what it is on our game guide sometime after launch.


    Now i can go to sleep :D
    Anticipation of Death is worse than Death Itself
  • #10
    Quote from Xhion

    I just tweeted at Bashiok and said the following...

    https://twitter.com/...386151774302210

    @Bashiok Hey Bash can you tell us if there will be Diminishing Return in magic find and if yes how is gonna work with Nephalem Valor?
    Bashiok@Bashiok
    Follow

    Well I don't think it's a linear scale, if that's what you mean. We might share what it is on our game guide sometime after launch.


    Now i can go to sleep :D
    Cool. Assuming he's talking about MF not scaling linearly that means it probably diminishes like DII.
  • #11
    Interesting. So assuming that you can manage enemies naked, having high MF gear all around may not actually yield the best results? (w.r.t uniques)

    Quote from A1win

    Quote from IcySoul

    I also have 1 question about mf, does it start counting by the time you start a fight or ebfore you kill something.Because people could have 2 gears 1 for dps boss for example and other for mf just to change before killing boss.since you can change items in combat.


    And if it's counted when starting, then you could swap to the non-MF gear after starting the fight. I'd also like to know how Blizzard has solved this problem.

    Another intriguing point, in either scenario swapping out gear for a tiny fraction of the fight would work. This item swapping doesn't seem to me to be in the spirit of the game, however I can't imagine implementing an entirely different method than these two would be easy. The only other possibility I can think of right now would be which item you did the majority of damage with, but this is still problematic and would require resources tracking damage that could be used elsewhere. If someone does know this, I would be very interested to find out!
  • #12
    Quote from Xhion

    Quote from A1win

    There has been no mention of DR on MF, and it doesn't seem reasonable to assume there would be.

    MF of all characters in a group is averaged out, so there's no benefit from only one player having high MF in the group. For example, if one player has 40% MF and other three have 0%, the group's MF is (40%+0%+0%+0%) / 4 = 10%.


    That's what i am questioning too.With Diminishing Return in mf the more magic find you have lesser unique items will drop and more blue items will drop.So let's say for example if i pick the d2 graph of diminishing return from the wiki where the sweet spot for dropping unique items is about 200% mf and we consider one person is with mf 800% and we split it with the group we have (800%+0%+0%+0%) / 4 = 200%



    So if we have the DR we can make a party with 1 person being the mfer and the others the dpsers.

    So what about Nephalem Valor? Let's assume that bliz will make NV gives you more mf let's say 25% per killing rare champion.If if you kill 4 champions you will have in the above party total mf : (800%+100%+0%+100%0%+100%+0%+100%) / 4 = 300%

    With the above formula you are away from the sweet spot so you will not consider finding champions to kill cause you will have less chances to get a unique item.

    On the other hand if bliz decides that NV will give more chances to drop more loot, then the DR with NV synergize together and you will have more chances to drop let's say 1-2 more unique loot.These things will change the game we will play solo or with more people.


    I don't think you understand how MF works in D2. The sweet spot is 200% because that is where you gain the most "unique" mf per actual mf percentage before the drop off. However, that does not mean that stacking MF above that reduces your chance of getting a unique, in fact that is wrong, it increases the chance (YEs the other item qualities increase as well, but Uniques are always rolled first). So, 1000% mf only yields 200% to Unique chance, that is still double the chance to roll a unique if you had zero MF, however, it is only 100% better Unique chance than wearing 200% of MF.

    When you say not to kill the champions because you will have less chance for unique because of having the 300% MF, this is just incorrect, you roll the unique first, as mentioned before, then set, then rare, then magic, if all those quality types fail, then, you have a plain old white item. The fascade with having a ton of MF is that everything is blue, because you have such a high chance to roll a blue item, so it is more succesful, hence less white items. But it does not take away from the unique roll, that happens first, in fact the only way you can get a set item, or rare, or magic is if the unique roll fails.
  • #13
    Quote from Ruthlessm1ke

    Quote from Xhion

    Quote from A1win

    There has been no mention of DR on MF, and it doesn't seem reasonable to assume there would be.

    MF of all characters in a group is averaged out, so there's no benefit from only one player having high MF in the group. For example, if one player has 40% MF and other three have 0%, the group's MF is (40%+0%+0%+0%) / 4 = 10%.


    That's what i am questioning too.With Diminishing Return in mf the more magic find you have lesser unique items will drop and more blue items will drop.So let's say for example if i pick the d2 graph of diminishing return from the wiki where the sweet spot for dropping unique items is about 200% mf and we consider one person is with mf 800% and we split it with the group we have (800%+0%+0%+0%) / 4 = 200%



    So if we have the DR we can make a party with 1 person being the mfer and the others the dpsers.

    So what about Nephalem Valor? Let's assume that bliz will make NV gives you more mf let's say 25% per killing rare champion.If if you kill 4 champions you will have in the above party total mf : (800%+100%+0%+100%0%+100%+0%+100%) / 4 = 300%

    With the above formula you are away from the sweet spot so you will not consider finding champions to kill cause you will have less chances to get a unique item.

    On the other hand if bliz decides that NV will give more chances to drop more loot, then the DR with NV synergize together and you will have more chances to drop let's say 1-2 more unique loot.These things will change the game we will play solo or with more people.


    I don't think you understand how MF works in D2. The sweet spot is 200% because that is where you gain the most "unique" mf per actual mf percentage before the drop off. However, that does not mean that stacking MF above that reduces your chance of getting a unique, in fact that is wrong, it increases the chance (YEs the other item qualities increase as well, but Uniques are always rolled first). So, 1000% mf only yields 200% to Unique chance, that is still double the chance to roll a unique if you had zero MF, however, it is only 100% better Unique chance than wearing 200% of MF.

    When you say not to kill the champions because you will have less chance for unique because of having the 300% MF, this is just incorrect, you roll the unique first, as mentioned before, then set, then rare, then magic, if all those quality types fail, then, you have a plain old white item. The fascade with having a ton of MF is that everything is blue, because you have such a high chance to roll a blue item, so it is more succesful, hence less white items. But it does not take away from the unique roll, that happens first, in fact the only way you can get a set item, or rare, or magic is if the unique roll fails.


    Don't get me wrong but i understand how the mf is working in d2.I am just making assumptions if DR will be in d3 and how it will work with NV.I never said this will happen.It's just theory crafting.
    Anticipation of Death is worse than Death Itself
  • #14
    I'm pretty sure (contrary to the previous post in this thread I didn't even know was there) that they've said there won't be any diminishing returns on Magic Find, since they hope there won't be a need for DRs.

    Check here and Ctrl+F "magic" for some info on it.
  • #15
    There was a blizzard quote on this from the fansite Q&A


    Originally Posted by (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

    Is Magic Find using diminishing returns in the same way as in Diablo II, where Magic Find stat affected in a different way the chance for blue, yellow and gold drops (actual bonus of MF was diminished for rarest items)?
    No, it’s a literal (and lateral) improvement across the board. We may tweak it but that’s the way it is right now.

    Source: http://www.diablofan...zzard-facebook/
  • #16
    Diminishing returns were patched into Diablo 2 because the MF on some of their expansion gear was ridiculously overpowered.

    Unless they make the same mistake this time around, there's no point in putting in diminishing returns - balanced MF mods and linear returns should be more than sufficient.
  • #17
    Quote from A1win

    Quote from IcySoul

    I also have 1 question about mf, does it start counting by the time you start a fight or ebfore you kill something.Because people could have 2 gears 1 for dps boss for example and other for mf just to change before killing boss.since you can change items in combat.


    And if it's counted when starting, then you could swap to the non-MF gear after starting the fight. I'd also like to know how Blizzard has solved this problem.

    I believe that the nephalem buff will reset upon gear swap
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