Hi to everyone making their way to this thread and the wall of text im about to feed upon your eyes.
First of all i want to say that the new ptr looks awsome, The greater rifts and the introduction of seasons is splendid and a most welcome idea which the d3 community has been craving for a long time. However with this being said, I can't help thinking that this patch is more or less for softcore only.. (let me explain)
So why do i proclaim this; Well obviously several people have had their fun on ptr, amongst my self, pushing my character to the absolut limit, and maybe a little bit further then I should, simply because I can die on ptr, I cant ingame (well duh). The greater rifts enviroment is great, however its a place where u constantly push the "limits" further and further of your character, which dosent really go to well with hardcore, where your safety is your number one concern. Hence the huge differences between toughness/dmg for softcore and hardcore.
my biggest concern is that people will go back to softcore, its certainly my thoughts at the moment, simply because there is no way i can know if the greater rift i enter, will 1-shot me, the greater rifts, density, mobtypes varies so much that some lvl 20 greater rifts feel like lvl 30 weak ones.. and it honestly makes no sense to me, why anyone should gamble their hard earned character to the rng of what spawns
Im a diablo nerd, i played d2hc and had 2 x lvl99 characters and was part of killing more then 100+ lvl 99 hc's.. so dont get me wrong, i LOVE everything about hardcore, and im really not so much concerned for my self and if i will play hc... cause i will..
but im scared that mr mediocre dude will throw his hat in and goback to softcore, just to have more fun and be more competitive.. i mean how many of us have a 4 man group ready for greater rifts, I know i do.. but i honestly doubt 90 % of the hc community does, as they dont even use communities and just play on their own..
if its me seeing this the wrong way, then by all means, lecture me, educate me, make me believe again.. cause right now im thinking that hc will become an even more elitist place then it allready is, and we will end up having an even smaller community then we have today, makíng us less heard in situations like theese
You bring up a valid point here... greater rifts are essentially suicide... I know I probably won't run greater rifts in HC, but I'll certainly still play HC... of course I'll also put time in on softcore just to get the feel for them and to have the enjoyment of pushing my character to his maximum potential, but the thrill of HC is always calling me, so...
i understand your fears but once you get over the initial jump in greater rift difficulty and start going up by single levels instead of skipping 'floors' the difficulty will scale nicely and you shouldn't be in for a huge surprising one shot, i mean if you could survive a lvl 19 grift then lvl 20 will be harder but not so much you're gonna get one shotted by every mob, now if you jumped from 19 to 30 that is another story
also the timer is there and all but if it runs out nothing huge happens you just wont get the key for the next rift, you wont die, there is really no penalty other than that, try to make it in time but if you see it getting close then you either risk it or play it safe, nobody is forcing anyone to run hc like sc
when ros came out i was the only one playing hc among my friends because well im a long time hc player and they just weren't ready for it i guess but i got one of them into hc, he brought his friends in and in a month only one person wasnt playing hc and now they all are, and in their words "its a completely different environment" no matter what happens they wont go back and i think many people are like this, once they taste hardcore, the different playstyle, priorities in gearing and building your character, they're not eager to go back to the "ez mode" softcore
so bottom line is while i understand your concern i think the hc community is more resilient than you think and will not crumble like that
I will actually start playing HC again when 2.1 hits with a clean Seasonal slate. It's just way more fun and drops are much more meaningful and probable to be useful for one character or another.
And for the Greater Rifts, it can still be done, but slower and more carefully, which is great in my book. I think it's a good thing that I actually have to take care not to die as opposed to just nuking as crazy...
I do see your point about skipping levels, however that was not my concern, i might have explained it poorly, so i will give it another go: Some lvl 20 greater rifts, with anarchy angels elite packs etc, hit like trucks compared to lets say lvl 30 rift skeleton warrior elite pack. The point was that its not scaled, and maybe it shouldnt be, which is fine by me, but for the general population of hardcore players, this will kill them. And i honestly doubt mr avg joe with 1-3 hours playtime a day (if not less) will push back towards the season ladder and give it another go.
Yes, the timer is there, if it runs out, then yes thats just it.. but my question to you then: whats the point then ? then im just doing a rift on a higher difficulty then i can get on t6. I have a great deal of 500+ paragon friends that i took some talks too, and we all agree on the same thing: we would NEVER play as risky as we do on ptr, quite frankly i think its 2-3 people in a list of 20 people that would even consider entering +25-30 greaters rifts, and funnily enuff, thoose 3 people are wd's (hallelujah for tanky pets and the ability to proc and live on every 90 seconds) but for many of the people whom are top tier players, wouldnt even think about it with anything but a pet/sentry DH or a pet/jade WD.
quoted from entro
"once they taste hardcore, the different playstyle, priorities in gearing and building your character, they're not eager to go back to the "ez mode" softcore
so bottom line is while i understand your concern i think the hc community is more resilient than you think and will not crumble like that"
we completely agree on the "special" enviroment hc brings to the table, but im still sceptical that your thoughts about the hc community will persist, however i deeply hope so
shadslayer, its great to hear you are returning, welcome back many of my oldschool friends are returning as well, and i do agree that it will just go slower and we wont be able to compete with the softcore people, and thats fine with me as well. The rules are the same for everyone on hardcore, so its not me im concerned about, its the greater community, especually mr avg joe who wants to have that ekstra fun on hardcore, i bet you he wont be laughing when he gets 1 shot cause he gets a killer pack on a given level after he just completed the one before with ease.
Agree 100% OP. I for one won't be playing HC anymore once patch goes live. I have always been a HC player since D2 release. And it doesn't bother me a bit. I am haven more fun in SC atm then hc. Like you say. U have to push your character to the limits, and to progress at all in this patch your goen to have to die to do it.
hey pewpew i understand your concern completely and believe me i am a little concerned about it myself BUT that is where the ptr comes into play, that's what its for, to test it out, tune the scaling, the difficulty and most importantly tune the characters so there is no class that's heads above anyone else *cough*wd*cough*, and do bear in mind that there will probably be a great deal of character changes comming, more elemental skill tuning, some passive changes for dh and monk, its all subject to change and im hopeful that they will balance it decently enough that every class can be played on the endgame hc level
this is just a first pass, the first public iteration and i personally think that the ptr will be live for at least 2 months, maybe 3 so everything can still change, no reason to judge it harshly at this stage
Hey OP. Let me briefly counterpoint your argument here. You say you're are HC veteran, and I believe it. Well...in the bigger picture of playing ARPGs hardcore, I'm a little new to it. Mostly started because of all the people in this community whining about how hard or disappointing it is. Ultimately, it's just slower, more careful play, and I don't even play on Normal difficulty. Hard, bare minimum.
But I feel like that's where Greater Rift leaderboards and Seasons will push this game from being just stat crunching in Softcore to a place where a bit more skill is involved. Sure, the lucky folks who Rift and gamble their way to a full T6 quality set or two will likely leap up those leaderboards real fast. However, the people with gear that isn't well known to be T6 facerollable? They'll have earned way more glory.
Ultimately, I think it goes like this...before, being unique or doing something different in D3 was a personal choice. Now...you can put together the same old boring builds as everyone else and succeed, or you can put your reflexes, skills, and planning to the test.
To your point about some GRs being unpredictable...kinda the point of them. Though, I wouldn't be worried about people leaving hardcore. They'll chase th notoriety and fame like everyone else will.
i fail to see where u counterpoint my argumentation anywhere and with anything ? i mean no offense, but as you say, you are new and you are basing your argumentation on your own personal experience, where mine was a conclusion of 15-20 people. if i missed it, please, by all means, try to explain it again to me
and lets just get one thing out of the way here in this thread before i have to reply to i 10 times more Its NOT a problem for me that they are unscaled, its NOT a problem for me that i can die and its NOT a problem for me that it will go slower or the fact i will never compete with the koreans :D! take theese 4 lines with alot of love, i mean no harm, i just see it being mentioned alot.. like it being taken as i wajn over this, rather then trying to spark a logical discussion if its me thats a sillybear or my concerns where shared and difficulty could go to endless mode if it was up to me, the harder the funnier, but im an elitist, not many are.. my beliefs about how d3 should be is only shared with like 5 % of the community.
yeah entro thats why i voice my concern here, to get it out in the open whilst we still have time to fix it on the ptr, if it in fact needs fixing but we agree 100 %
p.s if any of my replies seem rather direct, i must appoligise, multitasking while at work is not one of my stronger sides, and people at my job keep thinking im here to work.. im here to type on diablofans ;))
Casual D3 player here. I only play HC and I will keep playing HC in 2.1 because that's how I like this game, if I have to be more careful on greater rifts, I will, but I play for fun not to be competitive.
gu1rao, im glad you voice your oppinion here, its great to hear you feel like that
however as mentioned before, im the elitist type, my reaction to 2's 3's 4's ladders had med craving for the time when my oldschool barb was top 10 ladder but i guess we are all different in this regard, my deepest concerns are just still that you wont feel like this when u get killed 2-3 times in the same season - but hey i could be wrong, however i think 90 % of the casual hc community thinks like this.
Hello Pew! I share your concern, at least to a certain degree. I had the exact same thoughts when I first heard about the plans for Greater Rifts. It seemed to be tailor made for softcore, whilst being largely punishing for the hardcore community. Having returned recently from holiday, I got to experience first hand a scenario similar to the one you described initially: Rushing through the first 23 levels of Greater Rifts, and then being shot down and killed at level 24, pretty much from out of the blue due to unlucky roll on mob type and density.
Now, these are factors that are out of your control and which will certainly lead to death for most hardcore heroes sooner or later. We all know this from the more managable torment level difficulties, where charging act 5 mobs are several times more deadly than say slow act 1 mobs. Surely, as has been pointed out in previous posts, the majority of these problems can be negated by "going slow", it will certainly be a death trap for most casual and semi-casual players. At least from my own meager experience, the jump from "mob type X" to "mob type Y" felt like a jump in several torment levels.
I don't mind dying, and have lost tons of max level characters to lag. Dying in a Greater Rift will be a "good death" so no worries. But it is concerning, as stated by Pew, that this feeling might not be shared by the majority of the HC community. Perhaps it would be a good idea for Blizz to make the transition between the various rift levels more managable, if not entirely customizable? If not, I fear the HC community will find itself quite drained in the near future.
The one thing that I will say though is that I've been discussing this topic with my brother, and he said he won't even bother doing greater rifts. This could hold true for some other HC players because quite frankly it's all choice anyway. Personally I like going balls to the wall, so I'm sure at some point when I'm feeling more confident I'll test one out for shits, but if I don't have anyone to run grifts with then it probably won't be a good idea for me.
Point of my post, however, there isn't anything that says you HAVE to run grifts, so I'm sure my brother isn't the only HC character who chooses not to run them, and that's fine too!
I understand your point but I think that most players that like HC will keep playing HC, normal rifts are still there and makes tiered rifts a big challenge and makes you have a second thought if you really want to step in to a 20+ one, at least that how I look at it for casual players.
I also think it's good to have this constructive discussions so maybe Blizzard takes care also of HC community's concerns and adjust it to what it needs to have a good game experience and not, as you said, risk all your hard work to rng.
here are my thoughts/concerns on greater rifts: I do not like how the design of grift is play until it becomes impossible. This is a great way to test your limits in sc, however its just plain suicidal in hc. "U have to push your character to the limits, and to progress at all in this patch your goen to have to die to do it." as Time2kill stated the only true way to test your limits is to run into the wall of death.If greater rifts were entirely optional then I wouldnt mind I would simply opt out of them, however (feel free to correct me if im wrong) It's my assumption that the only way to obtain legendary gems/unlocking their true potential via lvling passives is by greater rifts alone. Now if you want to maximize your character you are forced to deal with these clearly SC mechanics.
now that being said Im not actually too concerned about greater rifts. if I feel the dmg im taking is too much i will just teleport out to town and let the rift expire. If my indestructible procs due to unforseen 1shot, again teleport out and let rift expire. this tact may not work well in groups if certain players are still doing fine and wish to proceed, so make sure you can agree upon some safety procedures before starting.
Still tho theres alot of rng in play with grifts & there may be some unescapable predicaments in the 25+ lvls with multiple packs of act 5 monsters with insane combos of affixes. extra health frozen waller + [insert x shitstorm here]. That's why I wish blizz would remove all the rng from grifts that they can and add consistency to the monster type/density. I'm not saying remove all act 5 monsters, but I'm saying mix up the monster types so you dont get overwhelmed by the combo of act 4 and 5 monsters which have many innate abilities aside from affixes, like lurkers have a nasty poison dot(the thing i fear the most) + succubes have the 50% armor debuff + those disappearing demons have a healing debuff 25 or 75% i forget (maybe it stacks) something else in those acts has a-50% all res debuff , my point is that all of these monster types exist on the same map making for a retardedly deadly amount of RNG that virtually doesnt exist in act 1-3 monster combos. Plus I think it just makes sense in the interest of fair competition if everyone cleared a rift with the exact equal amount of monsters and monster types then rankings would be much more accurate.
Hardcore is supposed to be a mode you play that death can happen at any time and it needs to have that feeling. I would play it more often but my connection is sometimes not that great and I can only take a few hours of DIII before I get my fill of DIII, I never got hooked to it like Diablo I and DII even though III is a better game in most counts.
Hardcore becomes a useless mode if you do not fear the monsters and I mean fear all the monsters, traps, everything including if a monster sneezes. The thrill of playing Hardcore is to see how long you can survive without dying and overcoming the challenges
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it's as optional as the greater rift is, and really the grift doesn't offer that much outside of the competition aspect which to my mind is why HC players play HC is mostly just to say that they do so in fact i see the grift gaining quite a bit of interest, if you want to prove how tough you are the grift is the ultimate challenge, really what is the point of just running the difficulty you always do and know you can do
HC players die eventually you will lag, someone in the house will distract you, you'll get sleepy ect, so why not go for glory if all you want is to constantly improve the gear then you really should be in softcore
if you are worried about the investment then try seasonal grifts,