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RoS Beta It has a worse end-game than D3 Vanilla, loot 2.0 is a joke.

  • #21
    They've failed D3 the moment they've delayed the PvP, that hasn't been even brought up by Blizzard for discussions since forever. In a game that you have no competition and motivation to improve your character to be better than others(not just in monster clearing) you cannot expect much. I bought vanilla, because I've liked the early videos of PvP arenas, and was eager to build up a character that can win arenas. Now all we have is loot, and before loot 2.0, loot was just garbage. The worse part is that loot 2.0 gives too fast of a progression of your character and at some point it is hardly room for improvement. I really doubt that people will keep on playing just to try different legendary item builds against monsters, builds are fun and interesting when tested against other characters. At least that is my opinion.
    Last edited by DeAdLiNebg: 1/14/2014 10:40:53 AM
  • #22
    I'm in agreement with Bagstone. While there are a few minor things i may not agree with, But I am loving where they are taking this game. Only issue i have is that i have to wait 2 more months! so +1 for Bagstone's post!
    Last edited by Bernie_666: 1/14/2014 12:41:59 PM
  • #23


    Quote from DeAdLiNebg


    They've failed D3 the moment they've delayed the PvP, that hasn't been even brought up by Blizzard for discussions since forever. In a game that you have no competition and motivation to improve your character to be better than others(not just in monster clearing) you cannot expect much. I bought vanilla, because I've liked the early videos of PvP arenas, and was eager to build up a character that can win arenas. Now all we have is loot, and before loot 2.0, loot was just garbage. The worse part is that loot 2.0 gives too fast of a progression of your character and at some point it is hardly room for improvement. I really doubt that people will keep on playing just to try different legendary item builds against monsters, builds are fun and interesting when tested against other characters. At least that is my opinion.


    See, you seem to want one thing. PVP in a genre and game that has been pretty much PVE only with PVP tacked on (Lets face it everyone it was horrible in D2). It's a dungeon crawler first. Let them get that right then let them work on PVP. I doubt RoS will be the last expansion for Diablo 3 anyways.
  • #24
    I still don't understand the thought process behind the cut of PvP, specially talking about arenas. I mean, one would think that the reason was to sell it as a part of the expansion.. hello, the expansion is here, still no arenas?, or do you really believe what Blizzard said about not being happy with the result? come on... everyone was excited about it, PvP or not PvP people.

    If the game was perfect, it would be reasonable to think that Blizzard wanted to make a very polished and perfected version of arenas, but.... the game was launched (and today has) with several flawed aspects.
    Last edited by Artemix: 1/14/2014 11:50:01 AM
  • #25


    Quote from Artemix


    I still don't understand the thought process behind the cut of PvP, specially talking about arenas.


    Because unless there was prescribed gear and builds it would be so unbalanced it would be laughable.
    Last edited by Maffia: 1/14/2014 11:55:40 AM
  • #26
    I can honestly say that I am very excited for the expansion. It takes a lot of what I disliked about the game, and gave me what I wanted to see.

    Can't say I'm really bothered about the "social" side of the game. I play it with my friends. We jump in and out of games and trade items as we find them, that is my social side concerning Diablo. However, I thought the fact that Blizzard will be adding clans to the game would be a good addition to the social side of things. They haven't revealed everything about it yet, so it is difficult for me to say whether it will be good or not, but I think it has lots of promise.

    Also, I'm not going to go into the economy gripe people seem to have. No items can be seen as waste in the game, not as long as you can salvage stuff. With the addition of the mystic and the fact that the AH is leaving, the game is going to be very different, so I'd like to wait and see how it goes. But like I said, I played with my friends and my gear is self found, so I doubt my playstyle is going to be affected a whole lot.
  • #27


    Quote from Artemix


    I still don't understand the thought process behind the cut of PvP, specially talking about arenas. I mean, one would think that the reason was to sell it as a part of the expansion.. hello, the expansion is here, still no arenas?, or do you really believe what Blizzard said about not being happy with the result? come on... everyone was excited about it, PvP or not PvP people.

    If the game was perfect, it would be reasonable to think that Blizzard wanted to make a very polished and perfected version of arenas, but.... the game was launched (and today has) with several flawed aspects.


    No no no that would be too much content for RoS expansion. But the next expansion is going to be all about PvP and the "struggle" they had to go through to get it to work with the game. So technically people end up paying 140$/E for the full game+ the waiting.
  • #28
    No PvP...

    No Trade...

    No country channels...

    You know what? I am online in this game and still feeling that its SINGLE PLAYER. I am alone! I have noone to say a single word...

    Well some of us traded in D2 and sniped offers in trade channels. This is fun for me. I am not blizzard's client? I dont pay money to play the expansion? Where is my fucking satisfaction?

    I want REAL PvP...

    You enter the game. You hostile everyone. You go out of the town and YOU KILL OR GET KILLED!

    I want D2 with D3's graphics and animations...
    Last edited by Txc: 1/14/2014 1:10:28 PM
  • #29


    Quote from Txc


    No PvP...

    No Trade...

    No country channels...

    You know what? I am online in this game and still feeling that its SINGLE PLAYER. I am alone! I have noone to say a single word...

    Well some of us traded in D2 and sniped offers in trade channels. This is fun for me. I am not blizzard's client? I dont pay money to play the expansion? Where is my fucking satisfaction?

    I want REAL PvP...

    You enter the game. You hostile everyone. You go out of the town and YOU KILL OR GET KILLED!

    I want D2 with D3's graphics and animations...


    Calm down bro. The only thing you posted there that sounds like a good idea was the country channels, although those would probably just get overrun by another country, manifest destiny style.
  • #30
    I am not happy with the ROS as it is atm...
    Last edited by Txc: 1/14/2014 1:18:57 PM
  • #32


    Quote from Txc


    I am not happy with the ROS as it is atm...


    I feel the same.

    Its just like we dont have a target.

    To go in detail:
    In Diablo III Vanilla the gameplay motivation is:
    -> Leveling to 60 to get into the endgame difficulty
    -> Farming for items/gold (auction house) on inferno to leveling to paragon 100 (goal Number1)
    -> Farming for items/gold (auction house) on inferno to go higher MP (goal Number 2)
    -> to get faster to 100 and find more items/gold
    -> After reaching good equipment to farm mp10 and/or reaching paragon 100
    -> Farming for items/gold (auction house) on inferno to get better items, just to kill monster faster

    So, these are the "official" goals we can reach in the current state:
    Number 1 = Paragon 100
    Number 2 = Farming MP10
    Number 3 = Completing all Achievements

    * = Optional goals
    *Number 4 = Reach goal Number 1 and 2 on Hardcore
    *Number 5 = Playing Self Found (unofficial)


    ** = Unofficial goals
    **Number 6 = Reach Paragon 100 with all classes
    **Number 7 = Reach Paragon 100 with 10 characters
    **Number 8= Farm as most legendaries as possibly in a certain time (unofficial Legendary Competition)
    **Number 9= Reach Paragon 100 as fast as possible




    Last edited by Desolacer: 1/14/2014 2:31:58 PM
    DIII RoS Hardcore Torment Stream
    http://www.twitch.tv/desolacer
    English and German chat
    Come and Enjoy the music :)
  • #33
    In the current state of RoS we are going to
    -> A new way to find items and leveling (Bounties and Rifts)
    -> Leveling to 70 get endgame items
    -> Farming Items to gain experience to get more Paragon Levels (Goal Number 1)
    (Problem: Without seeing an ending of the leveling path, its really unmotivating after a while. In Vanilla Paragon 100 was reachable, we saw the end of the path, if you know what I mean)
    -> Farming Items to farm higher difficulties to get more items and more experience

    Goals in RoS:

    Number 1: Farming Torment VI
    Number 2: Completing all new Achievements

    *Optional goals:
    Number 3: Reaching goal Number 1 and 2 on Hardcore

    No more Legendary Competitions because of the BoA System
    No leveling goal, because we have an unending paragon level system
    No Trading means, we can not share our items with friends when we found them without them





    What do you guys think ?

    Best regards
    Desolacer#2339 EU
    twitch.tv/desolacer
    Last edited by Desolacer: 1/14/2014 2:41:57 PM
    DIII RoS Hardcore Torment Stream
    http://www.twitch.tv/desolacer
    English and German chat
    Come and Enjoy the music :)
  • #34


    Quote from Maffia




    Quote from Artemix


    I still don't understand the thought process behind the cut of PvP, specially talking about arenas.


    Because unless there was prescribed gear and builds it would be so unbalanced it would be laughable.




    They already said they don't want to make PvP a e-sport, which means, balance is important, but not paramount. And what we all saw in the arenas looked like really fun to even try. Sorry, I smell money reasons involved here, and nothing more than that. Of course they cant tell us that, imagine the rage...
  • #35


    Quote from Maffia




    Quote from Artemix


    I still don't understand the thought process behind the cut of PvP, specially talking about arenas.


    Because unless there was prescribed gear and builds it would be so unbalanced it would be laughable.


    I agree with some of this statement. I think that Blizzard could take the WoW approach (i know...i know...) and allow for pve gear to be used, but have special sets of pvp gear that would be designed for dueling. They could even provide a debuff in arenas/battlegrounds/etc. that would be applied to each piece of pve gear that reduced the stats by 25% (pvp flagged gear would not have a debuff). So sure, you could bring your OP torment gear into a duel, but you'll be at a disadvantage from those that have pvp gear equipped. To ease the transition from pve to pvp, you could even offer starter sets that can be crafted or bought to allow for a lower barrier to entry. PVP items would have their own stash so you don't accidentally equip a PVE item.

    If you control itemization in that method, then you may not need to prescribe specific builds.
    Please read the community guidelines on Trolling & Flaming before you create a new thread just to complain... http://www.diablofans.com/forums/diablo-iii-general-forums/diablo-iii-general-discussion/75118-forum-guidelines-8-19-2012
  • #36


    Quote from Thornagol




    Quote from Maffia




    Quote from Artemix


    I still don't understand the thought process behind the cut of PvP, specially talking about arenas.


    Because unless there was prescribed gear and builds it would be so unbalanced it would be laughable.


    I agree with some of this statement. I think that Blizzard could take the WoW approach (i know...i know...) and allow for pve gear to be used, but have special sets of pvp gear that would be designed for dueling. They could even provide a debuff in arenas/battlegrounds/etc. that would be applied to each piece of pve gear that reduced the stats by 25% (pvp flagged gear would not have a debuff). So sure, you could bring your OP torment gear into a duel, but you'll be at a disadvantage from those that have pvp gear equipped. To ease the transition from pve to pvp, you could even offer starter sets that can be crafted or bought to allow for a lower barrier to entry. PVP items would have their own stash so you don't accidentally equip a PVE item.

    If you control itemization in that method, then you may not need to prescribe specific builds.


    Sorry, forgot to mention that winning pvp events would give you points which you could use to purchase new pvp sets (with different set bonuses) or upgrade your existing set. Your rating also determines the quality of player that you fight in the next round. You have the option of dueling, random 2v2, 3v3, 4v4, or clan vs clan (duels,2v2, 3v3, 4v4). You could even institute ladders for individuals and clans to grant vanity gifts specific to pvp (Glowing red aura, transmog that makes your shield look like diablo's head, etc.)
    Please read the community guidelines on Trolling & Flaming before you create a new thread just to complain... http://www.diablofans.com/forums/diablo-iii-general-forums/diablo-iii-general-discussion/75118-forum-guidelines-8-19-2012
  • #37


    Quote from Artemix




    Quote from Maffia




    Quote from Artemix


    I still don't understand the thought process behind the cut of PvP, specially talking about arenas.


    Because unless there was prescribed gear and builds it would be so unbalanced it would be laughable.




    They already said they don't want to make PvP a e-sport, which means, balance is important, but not paramount. And what we all saw in the arenas looked like really fun to even try. Sorry, I smell money reasons involved here, and nothing more than that. Of course they cant tell us that, imagine the rage...




    What you saw in arena was PVP with everyone wearing as equal gear as possible. And it was STILL unbalanced. When I played it during the 2011 Blizzcon, I went 40 something kills and about 4 deaths on the Wizard.

    Now I want you to imagine all the buffs skills have gotten since then, as well as all the gear. It's going to be exactly what Maffia said; Laughably imbalanced.

    Some people just want the arena, with no skill nerfs and no gear restrictions. If I had to vote for one, it would be that one, BUT there will instantly be a prevailing class and skill combo that no one can deal with, and it won't be fun.

    On the other hand, there's people who want the arena with skill nerfs / gear nerfs to equalize it out. It might make it more balanced, but for people such as myself that would be even less fun, because if I'm going to do any PVP, I want it to be with the gear I found, not some nerfed version.

    I give you to, Blizzard's quandary.



    Edit; Oops, forgot to add that 3rd option; Blizzard is a money hungry evil giant corporation who only cares about $$ and couldn't give a rats ass about the little man! In fact, we should be telling them what to do with their money! I mean, it's really OUR money right? Because we gave it to them? FFS.
    Last edited by Bleu42: 1/14/2014 3:55:36 PM
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChB2_IPc-HVXbi0jS1Riljg
    ^ YouTube.Com/IceBleuGaming ! It's a thing! Check it oooout!
  • #39


    Quote from Bernie_666


    I'm in agreement with Bagstone. While there are a few minor things i may not agree with, But I am loving where they are taking this game. Only issue i have is that i have to wait 2 more months! so +1 for Bagstone's post!


    Bagstone wrote it all out much more eloquently than I could have. I agree with 90+% of what he said. The things I don't agree with him on are small things that aren't going to change my opinion on the game either way.

    There are millions of people who bought D3, and they were not united on how good or bad Vanilla was. RoS will be like that as well. Just because you disagree with Blizzard, doesn't mean they are *wrong* in the business sense, or for the longevity of the game for the most people. Just means that the longevity is shot for you and your circle of like-minded friends, which may or may not be as large as you think.


  • #40


    Quote from Dentacom


    I've spoken to several other RoS testers and most of them have stopped playing and lost interest. Even I didn't think it would get boring so quickly, but alas.


    I've only stopped playing PTR for the moment because I don't want to completely spoil myself for the 3/25/14 launch of RoS, and also have my attention on some other games for the moment. I have very much enjoyed it, and I am very excited for the launch of RoS. I think RoS will be FAR better than Vanilla ever was, and the end of the AH and BoA legendaries are definitely pluses to it, imo. You may disagree, of course.
  • #41


    Quote from Dentacom


    I've spoken to several other RoS testers and most of them have stopped playing and lost interest. Even I didn't think it would get boring so quickly, but alas.

    So long as Blizzard keeps adopting incorrect ideologies on what a good Diablo game is, I don't see any light at the end of the tunnel.

    PS. If I hear another D3 dev say "People just want to be able to kill things and not have to do anything else but kill things! SMASH!!!!11" I am going to vomit. Where the hell did they get this idea from, and why the hell are they still trying to push this mantra after it failed spectacularly?

    It is worse than vanilla because now you can't even find items to sell, which makes the item-hunt extremely boring and unfulfilling. You basically feel like you are alone in a single player game with nothing to do but kill monsters and hope for upgrades. Even when you get the upgrades its not fun, as you start to think whats the point if the item-hunt if you can't even trade/sell gear, or PvP with it, or show off etc.
    I agree with that some players don't actually know what they want, or what is good for them, however we can safely say that a game that gets boring after less than a few weeks is a problem for everyone.
    Тhanks a lot.


    Well, I would suggest to you that people not playing the beta / PTR is not a good example of how boring RoS might or might not be.
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChB2_IPc-HVXbi0jS1Riljg
    ^ YouTube.Com/IceBleuGaming ! It's a thing! Check it oooout!
  • #42
    Listen, you're in need of some perspective, my man. You're one of 12 million people that bought D3. You're entitled to your opinion and everyone here is happy to discuss what direction you think the game should be taking, but lose the attitude. Saying stuff like "Their philosophies for Diablo 3 do not match the philosophy of what a good Diablo item-system is supposed to be" just makes you sound ridiculous. Especially when you contradict yourself by appealing to some Enlightened Diablo Philosophy, and then talk about how the game needs PvP when the most advanced PvP system the series has ever seen is a "Hostile" button.

    Anyway, I don't necessarily disagree with your points (other than how you put them); I personally don't care whether D3 has social bullshit or trading or PvP, and if they were part of the game I'd just ignore them for the most part. I do want to specifically one point though:

    Quote from Dentacom



    1) When players have good loot (in say, a month), they will stop getting upgrades so quickly, and the EXACT SAME problem that is happening now will happen, except this time it would be worse because you can’t even sell the decent stuff you find.


    You misunderstand the purpose of Loot 2.0. It is not to prevent players from reaching a point of loot-saturation. Without consistently adding new content that makes old stuff obsolete, a la WoW, it is inevitable that players will reach that point.

    The purpose of Loot 2.0 is to change how players reach that point, which currently is using the AH and after Loot 2.0 is supposed to be by playing through the game.
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