Will RoS end-game be worse than D3V?

  • #61
    Quote from Shad3slayer

    Quote from itirnitii

    The drop rates are elevated so the items drop enough to actually be experimented with. Progression is thereby enhanced at an alarming rate. So at least take that into consideration as well.


    Why does everyone keep saying this? Is there any official info about elevated drop rates?


    http://us.battle.net...c/10703970369#2

    People are probably saying it because it's pretty standard for closed betas so that people can get their paws on items and ... well, you know, test them out. Even without confirmation it's pretty reasonable and logical. The confirmation is just icing on the cake.

    Quote from Shad3slayer

    I like it in Theory of course (as does nearly 100% of the playerbase I'd guess), but I'm afraid that there'll (again) be a few best areas with good density and many ghost town areas. I read somewhere already that the monster density in general is much less than in D3V on mp1+ atm. Which is horrible, as the density change was the single change in past year and a half that kept me playing for more than a month.


    This is the nature of new systems. You try shit out, you fix what's broken and move on. To label the whole RoS endgame as "worse" than classic, despite OBVIOUS and NUMEROUS improvements is really going out of your way to twist things.

    It's beta. This is a good time to voice certain concerns. What areas are density an issue? What areas are in danger of being a ghost town? Frame the discussion in a way that can constructively bring about change. What would you fix? How would you fix it?

    Leave this "it's worse than vanilla!" nonesense for the trolls. All that starts is arguments. People fighting on the internet rarely solves anything. Taking a "no one is listening to issues" stance during a beta is really closed-minded.
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  • #62
    Quote from shaggy

    Quote from Shad3slayer

    Quote from itirnitii

    The drop rates are elevated so the items drop enough to actually be experimented with. Progression is thereby enhanced at an alarming rate. So at least take that into consideration as well.


    Why does everyone keep saying this? Is there any official info about elevated drop rates?


    http://us.battle.net...c/10703970369#2

    People are probably saying it because it's pretty standard for closed betas so that people can get their paws on items and ... well, you know, test them out. Even without confirmation it's pretty reasonable and logical. The confirmation is just icing on the cake.


    Thx. I hope it serves to point out the Itemization flaws and for them to change it for the better >.> That said, I like relatively big droprates, finding uniques and sets at a reasonable pace :P If the Itemization were done properly, relatively big droprates wouldn't be such an issue imo. Meaning, if the majority of legendaries and sets was useful for some class/ spec/ level (think Diablo 2), and not 99% chance to be crap due to random affixes and only 1 legendary affix.
  • #63
    What I'd like for itemization in RoS is to have legendary tiers (used to be iLvls), where there would be good/ok items that would drop more frequently and super, game changing (or breaking) items that would be far less frequent. Also completing a class set should take a long time, but should be rewarding - I like for example the new monks set -> gain all base auras, which is very good and frees up a skill slot. Thats the way of thinking I like.

    I believe it used to be like this in D2 and it think it'd a good thing.

    To the OP, there is actually quite a lot legendaries that are good (or have a potential when balanced properly). For example thorns, now it seems lackluster but if it were to scale with primary stat or even crit and what not, it would be worth building a set around it.

    I think the problem is not solely itemization but the combat pace and health mechanics. If all that matters is DPS and you basically dont die, then interesting legendaries will never be useful, only those stat sticks. Which is actually being looked at in RoS (a lot of stuff is broken in beta right now, lets see if they can balance it properly).

    If you get to a point where you actually need time to kill monsters and they are considerable threat to your hralth pool at the same time then it will promote using tactics and support skills, which makes room for more interesting legendary affixes.
  • #65
    Even now RoS end-game is superior to vanilla in basically every way imaginable. Sure, the beta experience rates and drop rates make it seem like the game is gonna mirror the console version of D3, where it is much easier to gear out your character, but we can't possibly know that this will be the way the expansion will play out on release.
    There is still like five months of testing and implementing before that, and plenty of time for Blizzard to add new systems and balance/augment the existing ones. I disagree with OP on every argument he made except for the Rifts, which are definitely pretty basic and bland in their current state.
    "Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the small death that brings total obliteration."
  • #66
    Quote from Kyoob

    What I'd like for itemization in RoS is to have legendary tiers (used to be iLvls), where there would be good/ok items that would drop more frequently and super, game changing (or breaking) items that would be far less frequent. Also completing a class set should take a long time, but should be rewarding - I like for example the new monks set -> gain all base auras, which is very good and frees up a skill slot. Thats the way of thinking I like.

    I believe it used to be like this in D2 and it think it'd a good thing.

    To the OP, there is actually quite a lot legendaries that are good (or have a potential when balanced properly). For example thorns, now it seems lackluster but if it were to scale with primary stat or even crit and what not, it would be worth building a set around it.

    I think the problem is not solely itemization but the combat pace and health mechanics. If all that matters is DPS and you basically dont die, then interesting legendaries will never be useful, only those stat sticks. Which is actually being looked at in RoS (a lot of stuff is broken in beta right now, lets see if they can balance it properly).

    If you get to a point where you actually need time to kill monsters and they are considerable threat to your hralth pool at the same time then it will promote using tactics and support skills, which makes room for more interesting legendary affixes.


    Yes. Very well said. And yeah that 4-piece Inna bonus is awesome indeed, that's the kind of thing that makes items meaningful. However I'd like the other set bonuses to be more meaningful too, not just the 4-piece one. And maybe for the set items themselves to have more flavor, they're basically just statsticks/ exactly the same as in D3V but with higher rolls, and are kind of pointless unless you wear 4 pieces.

    And yeah, as I said in OP, I'm looking forward to the combat pacing changes. It sounds very good in theory, I hope it really does turn out so.
  • #67
    Yep, it's going to be terrible. All the terrible legendaries with their terrible legendary affixes drop off the first enemy you kill and Torment 6 will easily beatable with blue vendor gear on day 1. Might as well pack up and head on over to PoE since it does itemization and end-game the right way.
  • #68
    Quote from stevedoctor

    Yep, it's going to be terrible. All the terrible legendaries with their terrible legendary affixes drop off the first enemy you kill and Torment 6 will easily beatable with blue vendor gear on day 1. Might as well pack up and head on over to PoE since it does itemization and end-game the right way.


    Too bad the combat and the gameplay is way worse than D3 :P For me at least. I'd be happiest if there existed a hybrid taking combat and gameplay from D3 and combining it with systems from PoE :)
  • #69
    ^^^ dat sarcasm (to stevedoctor)
  • #70
    well all I can say is they are doing something right about this beta. letting the testers play the hole game and all its difficulties. better than the last where you just had very little of act 1 and normal only.
  • #71
    Quote from arteyus

    well all I can say is they are doing something right about this beta. letting the testers play the hole game and all its difficulties. better than the last where you just had very little of act 1 and normal only.


    Haha, true. This beta might actually serve it's purpose, unlike D3V beta which included only the best and most polished part of the game rofl.
  • #72
    Quote from OlSeahorse

    all i hear is you bitching, take ur ass back to poe with all the other asshats


    Just wanna let you know that I reported this post.
    The fact that this is how you chose to write your first ever post in this forum is an absolute disgrace.
  • #73
    Quote from Shad3slayer

    Also, I personally was a fan of "grants aura when equipped" and similar "OP" stats. I think adapting items like that to D3 ("While this legendary is equipped 2 random runes are applied to whatever skill you use", or "Chance to cast Sprint when hit" etc.) would go a long way towards making the itemization more meaningful. D2 had a lot of OP items, but still quite a few choices for every class depending on build and what you want.


    Well, I said already, that I didn't like the concept of granting a character the skills of another class, but you do have a point that D2 had a multitude of options regarding gear. It wasn't just get X or wait for it to drop.
  • #74
    Quote from maka

    Just wanna let you know that I reported this post.
    The fact that this is how you chose to write your first ever post in this forum is an absolute disgrace.


    Stop making sense all the time. You are confusing me a lot lately :P
  • #75
    Quote from Twoflower

    Quote from maka

    Just wanna let you know that I reported this post.
    The fact that this is how you chose to write your first ever post in this forum is an absolute disgrace.


    Stop making sense all the time. You are confusing me a lot lately :P


    I'm a complicated man :lol:
  • #76
    Quote from shaggy

    Quote from Shad3slayer

    I like it in Theory of course (as does nearly 100% of the playerbase I'd guess), but I'm afraid that there'll (again) be a few best areas with good density and many ghost town areas. I read somewhere already that the monster density in general is much less than in D3V on mp1+ atm. Which is horrible, as the density change was the single change in past year and a half that kept me playing for more than a month.


    This is the nature of new systems. You try shit out, you fix what's broken and move on. To label the whole RoS endgame as "worse" than classic, despite OBVIOUS and NUMEROUS improvements is really going out of your way to twist things.

    It's beta. This is a good time to voice certain concerns. What areas are density an issue? What areas are in danger of being a ghost town? Frame the discussion in a way that can constructively bring about change. What would you fix? How would you fix it?

    Leave this "it's worse than vanilla!" nonesense for the trolls. All that starts is arguments. People fighting on the internet rarely solves anything. Taking a "no one is listening to issues" stance during a beta is really closed-minded.


    Sorry, I just noticed this now, guess you edited it after I already replied t.t

    Anyway, I didn't label it as worse than vanilla. I just wanted to get a discussion going, see what people think, hopefully bring about some new ideas and insight... And I'm pretty happy about how the topic turned out and the opinions people posted for the most part, because if the majority of people that will play beta / PTR recognizes the present issues, the bigger the chances of them actually being fixed. If people blindly trust everything will turn out perfectly on it's own, and don't contribute constructively, we get a bad end-result. I've already experienced that with several games, sadly.
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