Loot 2.0 and Trading

  • #21

    I don't think you understand, man. The fact that those types of deals are no longer officially supported by Blizzard means that they completely disregard them when coming up with changes and fixes to the game. They don't have to withhold changes because they're worried people who have payed real money for items will get upset. I mean, people that spend real money will still be upset when their gear is suddenly devalued, but when the RMAH shuts down it will no longer be Blizzard's problem, because your real money purchase will no longer be sanctioned by Blizzard.
    It's incredibly liberating.


    It's my opinion that if they need to keep changing things in a game-breaking way, they are doing something wrong already. It is and was fairly rare in WoW that something changed so drastically that the entire paradigm was changed. Some classes could get buffed pretty significantly, but it wasn't like the difference of Legacy Legendaries to current Legendaries.

    If I do get a good item in the future (whether I bought it with real money or not) and they nerf it to a game-changing degree, I will be really disappointed regardless of the existence of an AH.



    To me the point of the game is to get items from drops. If that's inadequate, then the blacksmith will help you out. I only play with friends, and we don't even really trade. If good items drop that they can use, I just give it to them, and vice versa.

    Honestly, I really don't get this insane need to trade every second drop with people out there that you don't know. I regard rares as upgrades/salvage material and legendaries as upgrades/trophies. So I really don't understand this mentality.


    I don't know if you play on console or something, because on console apparently it is easier to earn your own items. But if youre on PC you are in a very small demographic of people. A tiny demographic.

    There's almost no way in hell that you could tackle MP10 inferno all the way through by only earning your own items.


    Right now it's TOO EASY to get those perfect stats and gear that you want.


    I don't think so. Youre looking at 1billion+ gold for "the best" gear. 300million can do you pretty well and get you up to MP10 probably. If you try to earn either of those numbers by yourself with no RMAH, it's pretty damn hard and time consuming. If you choose to spend ~$5 you can give yourself a really solid boost, and I don't really see a problem with that. If someone is "okay" with taking shortcuts, then let that be their business. I bought a very small amount of gold myself on the RMAH and I take pride in what I have legitimately earned since then. 90% of my current items are self-earned now. That gives no real status to anyone but myself. It's largely in your own mind: your sense of pride and sense of achievement.

    As for a "computer" telling me what things are worth, I don't really see it that way. I see a very reasonable inflation rate in the items and prices from the release of this game to now. Items I sold for 20million+ months ago are now 1million or less. Big deal? I've gotten items since then that CURRENTLY sell for 70million etc. And I earned them myself. When I find those kinds of items I see it as a victory regardless of the item being for MY current character- I don't know why they think that's part of the whole thing (the item being for you).

    By using the inefficient trade-chat and public game trading method you are really screwing up your potential for progress. By having less of a pool of demand, you are going to have a LOT of trouble getting what you deserve for an item, and there's too much luck involved.

    If I tried to sell my Skorn right now by avoiding the AH entirely, I know it would be a big pain in the ass to get what I really deserve for it. First of all, it would be very hard to find someone looking for a lifesteal/intelligence Skorn, VERY hard. Then, out of that tiny pool of people, the chances of any of them really knowing the value of it are low just like there's a low chance of some idiot over-paying me for it.

    An AH presents comparisons (among many other things). "Ah, these are all typically selling for around X price, so I can be confident in it's value."

    As for balance changes (I already said something about this but...) if they decided to nerf the balls out of my current Skorn tomorrow, even though I didn't pay real-money for it, I'd still be fucking furious. I worked really hard to get that decent Skorn, and if they trivialize or take that away from me in any way, I'm not going to be happy.

    They need to let the game be somewhat persistent and constant and not be fucking with significant shit all the time.

    If WoW was like: "Okay today Warriors are good, but next fucking week, Warlocks are going to be good and everything else is gonna literally blow." People would be upset. They tried to make WoW constant enough that you generally get "what you've worked for." They have definitely made some significant nerfs in the past, but it was never something that COMPLETELY ruined/changed the game for me. In WotLK I played a pvp-unholyDK at the height of their strength, and then they nerfed Scourge strike etc. I was pretty significantly weaker, but I didn't NEED to reroll. I still did pretty fine HOWEVER:

    ***If they one day nerfed my Skorn down to legacy values, that would be a ridiculous...RIDICULOUSLY significant change. And that HAPPENED in Diablo 3, it just happened in reverse. There is PRECEDENT for that level of change. THEY need to work on not doing that, not relieve themselves of some amount of the blame when they make such huge changes.***

    "Hey, there's no AH/RMAH anymore, we can just do anything we fucking want MREHEHEE!!!" We don't want this.
  • #22
    Quote from jwylie311

    It's my opinion that if they need to keep changing things in a game-breaking way, they are doing something wrong already. It is and was fairly rare in WoW that something changed so drastically that the entire paradigm was changed. Some classes could get buffed pretty significantly, but it wasn't like the difference of Legacy Legendaries to current Legendaries.


    In WoW, you didn't have fully randomized loot, so comparing the loot between the two games really does both a disservice. The thing about D3 is they aren't changing anything in a game-breaking way, they are trying to fix things that people have found that makes the game less interesting. For example with IAS, they wanted to nerf it because it was found to be too good combined with other stats and people were stacking it. They fixed it and quickly found this made people unhappy becuase they had paid for it.

    The game still functions fine, the IAS stat still works, its just not the 'be all end all' stat it was back then. This fix made loot more interseting (relativly) becuase now if your gear didn't have IAS you might not care as much. Gear choices opened up rather than being closed off.

    I don't know if you play on console or something, because on console apparently it is easier to earn your own items. But if youre on PC you are in a very small demographic of people. A tiny demographic.

    There's almost no way in hell that you could tackle MP10 inferno all the way through by only earning your own items.


    You're talking about getting into MP10, that's a whole other discussion and MP10 was really made to challenge those people who had all the best gear anyway.

    I'd like to see your demographic numbers because I've played the exact same way with my friends. I'm 90% self found or crafted, I was able to wade through MP5-7 roughly. I hardly ever sold items on the AH.

    I don't think so. Youre looking at 1billion+ gold for "the best" gear. 300million can do you pretty well and get you up to MP10 probably. If you try to earn either of those numbers by yourself with no RMAH, it's pretty damn hard and time consuming. If you choose to spend ~$5 you can give yourself a really solid boost, and I don't really see a problem with that. If someone is "okay" with taking shortcuts, then let that be their business. I bought a very small amount of gold myself on the RMAH and I take pride in what I have legitimately earned since then. 90% of my current items are self-earned now. That gives no real status to anyone but myself. It's largely in your own mind: your sense of pride and sense of achievement.


    Again the problem is you're talking about MP10. Sure, if MP10 is your goal then it might be very hard to get there without some form of AH. But why does that have to be the goal? What's wrong with the other MPs if they offer you a challenge and good loot to find? I think that's the crux the matter.

    As for a "computer" telling me what things are worth, I don't really see it that way. I see a very reasonable inflation rate in the items and prices from the release of this game to now. Items I sold for 20million+ months ago are now 1million or less. Big deal? I've gotten items since then that CURRENTLY sell for 70million etc. And I earned them myself. When I find those kinds of items I see it as a victory regardless of the item being for MY current character- I don't know why they think that's part of the whole thing (the item being for you).


    The point of my statement was that when you take away an efficient market like the AH, you lose that hard set gold value. When people are forced to trade and barter, then prices change. You could possibly get that 1 billion gold item now for just a few items if you find the right person that happens to need your items. A free market with a gold standard is fine usually, but right now because it's so easy to get to, it makes a game about random loot lose the randomness.

    The point is that the AH is TOO efficient. You take take what is random loot and buy your way around that randomness. You also don't need to get the "best" gear to do this. If you want to get high amounts of crit, all you have to do is search for it, find something cheap that doesn't have "the best" stats on it, but has just enough to be useful.

    The BEST gear is always going to be highly valued and hard to come by even with the AH, but the AH pretty much created this system where anything other than the best stats were devalued and people could pick up really amazing gear on the cheap. I've seen it, amazing gear that only sold for thousands of gold becuase it wasn't "perfect". Gear that would get you into the mid ranges of Monster Power without much issue. The sad part is once you bought a lot of this gear, you started running out of cool things to find because you already bought it all.

    The idea is the better gear you have, the less upgrades you'll find. This is supposed to happen over time to increase longivity of the game, but with an AH you reach this point much quicker than you would on your own and it makes the game feel worse when you run out of stuff to find.
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  • #23
    Quote from jwylie311


    If WoW was like: "Okay today Warriors are good, but next fucking week, Warlocks are going to be good and everything else is gonna literally blow." People would be upset. They tried to make WoW constant enough that you generally get "what you've worked for." They have definitely made some significant nerfs in the past, but it was never something that COMPLETELY ruined/changed the game for me. In WotLK I played a pvp-unholyDK at the height of their strength, and then they nerfed Scourge strike etc. I was pretty significantly weaker, but I didn't NEED to reroll. I still did pretty fine HOWEVER:

    ***If they one day nerfed my Skorn down to legacy values, that would be a ridiculous...RIDICULOUSLY significant change. And that HAPPENED in Diablo 3, it just happened in reverse. There is PRECEDENT for that level of change. THEY need to work on not doing that, not relieve themselves of some amount of the blame when they make such huge changes.***

    "Hey, there's no AH/RMAH anymore, we can just do anything we fucking want MREHEHEE!!!" We don't want this.


    You know, you could've saved a lot of time if only you had disclosed that you were coming from a WoW mindset. This is not an MMO, man, and the developers don't want it to be, just face it. It just happens to be played online.
  • #24
    The game still functions fine, the IAS stat still works, its just not the 'be all end all' stat it was back then. This fix made loot more interseting (relativly) becuase now if your gear didn't have IAS you might not care as much. Gear choices opened up rather than being closed off.


    If anything is ever seeming "too good," I can sense it. When this happens I usually expect that it will be dealt with. For example, right now I think witch doctor firebats are too damn strong and are too dominant that other builds get no use for the most part.

    If I spent a ton of real-world money on a firebat witch doctor, it would be my own fault when it inevitably gets nerfed because I expect it. I guess everyone shouldn't be expected to have this "sense," but actually, to some degree I think it is mandatory.


    I'd like to see your demographic numbers because I've played the exact same way with my friends. I'm 90% self found or crafted, I was able to wade through MP5-7 roughly.


    That's a big achievement and I bet you are a rare case. You did yourself a dis-service by not using the AH, however. It's a useful tool.


    But why does that have to be the goal? What's wrong with the other MPs if they offer you a challenge and good loot to find? I think that's the crux the matter.


    Well, the general argument against the AH is it's ease of making someone very powerful. MP10 is this games final challenge, for the most part, and uber bosses on MP10 also.

    The AH simply doesn't get you to this final goal as quickly as people make it sound. What other end-goal is there? It's THE hardest thing, and it is therefore the benchmark. If someone had the goal only to beat normal difficulty, they could argue that it's too easy to achieve that goal, but that's just not the standard.

    I will say that I was proud when I got to MP8 and all of the earlier ones. I was proud that I earned it, etc. But, I am the most proud for being able to tackle MP10. If you only want to achieve 80% of the goal, that's fine too, I don't judge. But, on average, only achieving 80% of a goal is faster.

    Quote from Blizzard:

    But as we've mentioned on different occasions, it became increasingly clear that despite the benefits of the AH system and the fact that many players around the world use it, it ultimately undermines Diablo's core game play: kill monsters to get cool loot.


    I don't really understand this, because as I say, I had to work pretty hard and find a lot of valuable gear to progress up to where I am.


    You could possibly get that 1 billion gold item now for just a few items if you find the right person that happens to need your items. A free market with a gold standard is fine usually, but right now because it's so easy to get to, it makes a game about random loot lose the randomness.


    The 1 billion item is worth such for a reason. If some fool trades you said 1 billion item for a bunch of invaluable and common stuff, that's their own prerogative. Ultimately, the items have an innate value due to their rarity and strength. Rare + strong items are the most valuable, period.

    About the random loot, I disagree because every item in the game will be found a LOT cumulatively. If there's something you want, someone is 99% guaranteed to have it, and even more likely, a lot of people will have it.



    The BEST gear is always going to be highly valued and hard to come by even with the AH, but the AH pretty much created this system where anything other than the best stats were devalued and people could pick up really amazing gear on the cheap.


    If all the players are cumulatively finding these high-demand items, their value goes down. That pool of cumulative players is always there. Removing the AH doesn't change that. However, without the convenient AH interface, you are going to have a very hard time getting the consensus about what things are worth and how many of these items are "out there." You will have to "poll" a lot of people and spend a lot of time finding out what people think about an item. If you don't extensively do your research, you will be getting improper values for your items, and paying improper values for other peoples items constantly.

    Additionally, perfect items aren't the only good ones. My Skorn isn't perfect, but its pretty darn good. For my resources, it was an appropriate buy. If someone else had more gold, or had real money to spend, I'm sure they could get an absolutely perfect one, and that doesn't bother me in the slightest. Kudos to them for getting the gold legitimately, or kudos to them for having a job where they get disposable income in real life.

    The idea is the better gear you have, the less upgrades you'll find. This is supposed to happen over time to increase longivity of the game, but with an AH you reach this point much quicker than you would on your own and it makes the game feel worse when you run out of stuff to find.


    I've found a few things over the hours that I've played which I do indeed use myself. I've also found countless (COUNTLESS) items that I've sold to other people and added to my cumulative value. You don't run out of things to find. If I find a Skorn that's almost as good as mine, I still call it a victory. Someone will want it. I don't get mad because it's not an upgrade to my setup.



    You know, you could've saved a lot of time if only you had disclosed that you were coming from a WoW mindset. This is not an MMO, man, and the developers don't want it to be, just face it. It just happens to be played online.


    In this context, I don't see how it matters what kind of game it is. If the rule-makers of Chess wanted to change things dramatically, and it favored a certain playstyle significantly, that would still be inappropriate of them.
  • #25
    Quote from jwylie311

    In this context, I don't see how it matters what kind of game it is. If the rule-makers of Chess wanted to change things dramatically, and it favored a certain playstyle significantly, that would still be inappropriate of them.


    Well in the D3 context the problem is that self-found was simply impossible to play if you wanted to "win." That's horribly disingenuous to the Diablo franchise. Trading will always be faster just due to the nature of skipping past the RNG aspect of loot, but playing self-found has never been a crippling choice like it's been in D3.

    To that extent they're not "favoring" a certain playstyle so much as they're attempting to level the playing field between finding loot versus trading for loot which is currently so skewed in favor of trading that it's not very fun for people who just want to log in and kill things.

    Think of it this way. On a scale of 1 to 100 with 100 being "farming MP10 like a boss" and 1 being "too sucky to farm MP0" trading can get you to 100. Self-found, for most people peters out around MP6, or so, so about 60-65 on the scale, and it takes much more time.

    So what if we slow trading down by moving away from the click-and-buy interface... and we also make it that people feel empowered to find the things they're looking for? Trading will still get you to 100, and is likely the only way to truly have "perfect" gear (but most self-found people aren't actually searching for the absolute best items, so that doesn't matter)... but now, maybe, self-found can get to 90, 95 with some more farming effort, and can do it faster than before.

    What you've created is something that's actually pretty damned close to how D2 worked. And we know that D2 DID work in terms of self-found versus trading and not shoehorning anyone into EITHER playstyle, despite all the duping. If you found a 6/6/15 Vamp Gaze, you could still use it. If you wanted an 8/8/20 Vamp Gaze you may have to trade to get it, you may find it yourself, but it was not mandatory to "win" and that meant that no one was forced to trade, even if they would only max out at 90-95.

    If you wanted a complete set of perfect gear... sure, get trading. But, in a game based on RNG, that seems pretty intuitive to me. Very few people are going to self-find a complete set of perfect items. It's just about the massive gap that currently exists and how to shrink that down so that people aren't stuck clicking through AH pages all day long.
    66.0k elite kills :: 1.97m total kills :: p244
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  • #26
    AH or not, if someone is bent on getting amazing gear through methods other than self-found then they are going to do it. The point is, without an in game auction house, Blizzard does not endorse it and doesn't have to balance the game around it. This is reason enough to not have it, and I think most people are happy Blizzard's hands are free. People who still wants to buy power have their third party methods and people who want to trade their way to the top instead of killing monsters still can, it's just not streamlined. The bottom line is it's no longer Blizzard's job to deal with anything but how drops affects someone who is slaying monsters and nothing more so that self-found players aren't so far behind its discouraging and end up loathing their choice to play self-found.
  • #27
    Trading will always be faster just due to the nature of skipping past the RNG aspect of loot, but playing self-found has never been a crippling choice like it's been in D3.


    I don't think I would have been able to make a powerful D2 characters with self-found items, in a million years. Perhaps your experience was different.


    ... but now, maybe, self-found can get to 90, 95 with some more farming effort, and can do it faster than before.


    If being entirely self-found at a time when trading still totally exists can get you 95% of the way to the maximum "strength," I think that's a little off. If trading exists at all, and I'm not so sure it will, it must be mathematically the best way to get what you ultimately want. You shouldn't have a "95%" chance of getting a PERFECT item. If I can achieve 95% by being self-found in the same amount of time as a person who trades a lot, I will certainly not trade AT ALL. I am willing to be 5% weaker for simply not having to deal with whatever mess that comes post-AH. If it's like D2, I would love to avoid it all together for only a 5% strength loss.
  • #28
    The point is, without an in game auction house, Blizzard does not endorse it and doesn't have to balance the game around it.


    I still don't see any examples of game-changing occurrences that related to the AH whatsoever. If a self-found person abused attack speed when it was overpowered, they got nerfed too. If someone spent money on a clearly imbalanced mechanic, that's their problem. They DID nerf attack speed, so they are clearly willing to do it, they just want to direct the anger of people who abuse broken mechanics to another place.

    I mean, tell me a change they couldn't do because it would upset AH users too much.

    If they don't like the idea of meddling with things that people spent real currency on, then they should remove the RMAH, not the normal AH.
  • #29
    Quote from jwylie311

    The point is, without an in game auction house, Blizzard does not endorse it and doesn't have to balance the game around it.


    I still don't see any examples of game-changing occurrences that related to the AH whatsoever. If a self-found person abused attack speed when it was overpowered, they got nerfed too. If someone spent money on a clearly imbalanced mechanic, that's their problem. They DID nerf attack speed, so they are clearly willing to do it, they just want to direct the anger of people who abuse broken mechanics to another place.


    Blizzard has admitted that drop rates had to be lowered to accommodate the fact that the auction house exists. So many people would have such a fast easy way to trade and acquire gear through a hyper-efficient method they could not let things drop as well as they should have.
  • #30
    Quote from jwylie311

    I still don't see any examples of game-changing occurrences that related to the AH whatsoever. If a self-found person abused attack speed when it was overpowered, they got nerfed too. If someone spent money on a clearly imbalanced mechanic, that's their problem. They DID nerf attack speed, so they are clearly willing to do it, they just want to direct the anger of people who abuse broken mechanics to another place.


    The IAS nerf, instead of being implemented immediately to fix a very obvious problem, was instead delayed so that Blizzard could provide ample time for people to get the news and stop buying shit on the RMAH.

    Black weapons were not fixed because of the fact that people had invested in them as superior items.

    One With Everything has yet to be fixed because people have geared their toons around it (read: bought items).

    Why do you think Archon and WotB haven't seen a patch so that they don't have 100% uptime? If people hadn't invested $$$ in their wizards and barbs, I'm sure they'd have nerfed both of those months ago instead of just idly chatting about how they want to change them.

    Why do you think CMWW hasn't been nerfed?

    Do you really think this is just a bunch of coincidences that none of these very obvious balance changes that the game needed haven't happened? Blizzard didn't hesitate to nerf Trail of Cinders, but that was because people generally didn't gear around it (high Disc regen is good for a lot more than ToC).
    66.0k elite kills :: 1.97m total kills :: p244
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  • #31
    I don't think it's the norm to completely drop everything you've been working on and change spec /build / class when a patch augments a playstyle.

    I am a witch doctor player for the most part, and I have little interest in the other classes. If witch doctors become the weakest overall class, I wont simply reroll and I have very rarely heard of people rerolling in similar situations COUNTLESs times. I think a few people DO reroll, but not majority.

    This could be rerolling classes, item builds, strategies. People like to maintain what they are familiar with it it's at all possible.
  • #32
    Blizzard has admitted that drop rates had to be lowered to accommodate the fact that the auction house exists. So many people would have such a fast easy way to trade and acquire gear through a hyper-efficient method they could not let things drop as well as they should have.


    What';s the downside? So, droprates were too high and they lowered them. Doesn't change the fact that I've found countless items myself and used them to add to my total worth.
  • #33
    Quote from jwylie311

    The point is, without an in game auction house, Blizzard does not endorse it and doesn't have to balance the game around it.


    I still don't see any examples of game-changing occurrences that related to the AH whatsoever. If a self-found person abused attack speed when it was overpowered, they got nerfed too. If someone spent money on a clearly imbalanced mechanic, that's their problem. They DID nerf attack speed, so they are clearly willing to do it, they just want to direct the anger of people who abuse broken mechanics to another place.

    I mean, tell me a change they couldn't do because it would upset AH users too much.

    If they don't like the idea of meddling with things that people spent real currency on, then they should remove the RMAH, not the normal AH.


    Critical Mass and One With Everything are two very prominent abilities that haven't been touched because people have bought gear to make them work to ridiculous levels. These passives are amazing when geared correctly and thanks to the AH it's easy to gear them right, but it can pigeonhole the players into needing only specific gear which means finding interesting upgrades is very difficult.

    They've spent months telling us how they want to fix OWE but they haven't been able to because they acknowledge that it would be unfair to everyone that spent their cash into it. Ever since IAS Blizzard has been gun shy about changing loot affixes because they dont' ever want someone to buy something and feel like Blizzard just pulled a "Bait and Switch" on them. You haven't seen any examples of game changing occurrences because they aren't making those decisions due to the AH.

    Yes a self found person could have found the right setup and gotten lucky, but a self found person didn't spend hard earned cash. Truth is, a self found person probably wouldn't have bothered with OWE (at least to the degree it was used) because it needs such very specific gear that it wouldn't be thinkable unless you got very lucky.
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  • #34
    Black weapons were not fixed because of the fact that people had invested in them as superior items.


    They didn't have the balls to nerf items and their associated players that were clearly and LITERALLY broken? That's their problem. If someone really invested in a broken exploit, I believe that is their fault entirely.
  • #35
    Just to supplement what Shaggy and Kage are saying, remember too that Blizzard makes a profit off these RMAH exchanges. So if they are profiting off someone who spent $250 on an item (about $40 of it going to Blizzard) and then they want to nerf the effect that item provides, that person is then mad at Blizzard and has a pretty valid complaint, even if they were prior warned. Then people criticize Blizzard for just trying to steal their money and it's just not worth the hassle for them, especially when they just want to make the game better and balanced without their hands being tied.
  • #36
    Quote from jwylie311

    I don't think it's the norm to completely drop everything you've been working on and change spec /build / class when a patch augments a playstyle.

    I am a witch doctor player for the most part, and I have little interest in the other classes. If witch doctors become the weakest overall class, I wont simply reroll and I have very rarely heard of people rerolling in similar situations COUNTLESs times. I think a few people DO reroll, but not majority.

    This could be rerolling classes, item builds, strategies. People like to maintain what they are familiar with it it's at all possible.


    A lot of high end players tend to gravitate to the path of least resistance. We're talking Min-Maxers here. If you think people don't change classes or specs just because another spec becomes dominate then I don't think you remember WoW very well.

    In World of Warcraft, people would change specs all the time just to get a 1% better theoretical DPS. If a patch nerfed a spec, most raiders jumped ship and moved to another. Yes not everyone did it, but it happened enough.

    If Blizz put out a patch that made one very specific set of gear or one specific class super over powered, do you think that a bunch of people wouldn't scramble to play that spec and class? Hell why do you think there's so many whirlwind barbs out there?
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  • #37
    One With Everything has yet to be fixed because people have geared their toons around it (read: bought items).


    I haven't even seen a OWE monk in a long time. I'm pretty sure it's not the dominant build anymore or at least it's not the only choice.


    Why do you think Archon and WotB haven't seen a patch so that they don't have 100% uptime?


    I don't know what WotB is, but I know that Archon is also not the only build you can use, I don't think it's the most common either.

    I don't know what CMWW is either, but it they continue to keep strong skills strong, and bring others in line in order to have more total options, I am all for it. No one is forcing you to switch spec or gear. And, I actually see a lot of variation in builds for all classes except witch doctor. Every other class has a bunch of builds that are VERY functional.

    Critical Mass and One With Everything are two very prominent abilities that haven't been touched because people have bought gear to make them work to ridiculous levels.


    Critical strike is good for everybody. Having absurd amounts of critical strike might be a little odd, but those players knew what they were getting into. They were buying some pretty specialized items. A lot of item sets can work for multiple builds. You shouldn't mention the few exceptions. Very few. Again, I put all the blame on people who consent to buy very specific items especially if it's clearly broken like black items.

    Like I said, I don't even think OWE is all that prominent anymore, anyways. If someone uses it, and it functions well for them I'm happy for them. If it needs to get nerfed slightly to be more fair and be brought in line, then that's life.
  • #38
    Just to supplement what Shaggy and Kage are saying, remember too that Blizzard makes a profit off these RMAH exchanges. So if they are profiting off someone who spent $250 on an item (about $40 of it going to Blizzard) and then they want to nerf the effect that item provides, that person is then mad at Blizzard and has a pretty valid complaint, even if they were prior warned. Then people criticize Blizzard for just trying to steal their money and it's just not worth the hassle for them, especially when they just want to make the game better and balanced without their hands being tied.


    Put a "subject to change" clause and it's all on the buyer. Then after that, don't make ridiculous changes, try to keep the game constant enough and not make poor decisions that need to be dramatically remedied. Don't make big ass mistakes, Blizzard.


    Hell why do you think there's so many whirlwind barbs out there?


    Because it's a good spec, they should bring other specs in line over time. How does that affect the AH? We are talking about it relating to the AH.

    The downfall seems to be buying these very specialized items, and I think that's a risk that people need to be responsible for.
  • #39
    It already has a "subject to change" clause. But it still feels bad and hurts their image, no matter how justified Blizzard is to do it.
  • #40
    If they slightly nerfed my firebat spec, and strengthened other ones that's fine. I predict that will happen. I really don't even see how they could make me require different stats specifically. If they somehow managed to require DIFFERENT stats than I currently have for another spec, I may or may not aspire to get those stats over time in order to use that spec. As long as my current firebat setup still works overall, I'm not worried about it. It's not impossible to keep multiple specs strong.

    Firebat spec shouldn't be at risk of eventually imploding all together and becoming gratuitously bad. If it did for some reason (and it simply should not), I shouldn't have to rearrange my entire item build because of it.

    Remember, we have to relate this to the AH. Every single tiny aspect needs to be COMPLETELY related specifically to the AH.

    I mean, how different can items REALLY get at a primordial level. You need some HP, some resist, some of your main stat, some crit, some crit damage, some attack speed maybe. Specialization should exist, but it shouldn't be black and white, it should be should be marginal and I think it is. At that level, you can afford to wiggle your items around a little bit for different builds.
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