Paragon Mastery, Primal Elements and other

  • #1
    Hi everyone,

    before I start I want to apologize for my English.

    You might remember me for this and this thread. As I promised, I would like to present some ideas about completely new systems. I hope you’ll enjoy.

    Special thanks to Strysio and Rivid for mental support and some balance suggestions :Thumbs Up: Values are only theoretical and may vary.

    Monster stats modification

    What’s the point ?
    It’s so easy right now and sometimes even boring. Let’s try to make this game really hard and a bit randomized.

    Why don’t we add new stats for monsters or just improve existing ? There are a few ways to do this:
    1. Increase hp and damage – easy way to do, but not very impressive
    2. Add stats listed below:
      • Armor and resistances – armor system will be working like for our characters. More armor – more damage reduction. Monsters will have also additional, random resistance.
      • Elemental damage – since Nightmare all monsters will hit us for additional, random element. Nightmare: additional 10% damage, Hell: 30%, Inferno: 70%.

    Paragon Mastery

    Why ?
    There are many ideas, how to change Paragon Levels system. Paragon Mastery is a new way to improve customization and thanks to it new builds will really matter.

    Let’s look at this.
    Paragon Mastery System activates after 1 Paragon Level. Every 3 lvl player gets 1 talent point to spend in two trees: offensive and defensive. At 100 paragon level player has 34 talent points (table below illustrates this)

    Every tree has 5 lines, 5 talents in each. Player can spend max 5 talent points into 1 skill and no more than 7 talent points each line. In addition player can choose no more than 2 skills each line same time. Next line becomes available after spending 5, 10, 15 and 20 talent points in previous lines.

    1 line: 7 pts. 2 line: 4 pts. 3 line: 0 pts.
    To enable 4 line player has to put 4 more points in previous lines.

    Because of Might of Ultimate skills, players can only choose one talent from 5 line.

    Players complained about possibility to change skills anytime they want. Let’s make it really expensive to discourage players to change them.

    Elixir of rebirth:
    • cost – 300 000 gold
    • 30 demonic essences
    • Demon bones (1% chance to drop from Act Bosses with 5 NV stacks)
    • Butcher Horn (10% chance to drop from Butcher)
    • Belial Eye (10% chance to drop from Belial)
    • Azmodan Tooth (10% chance to drop from Azmodan)
    • Diablo Tail (10% chance to drop from Diablo)
    There’s also additional cost linked with resetting Paragon Mastery (can be removed):
    1. Players losses 1 paragon mastery level.
    2. Paragon Mastery Tree becomes inactive and player can re-assign skills only after level up.
    3. Player gets debuff -5% hp, dmg and all res until he level up again.

    Let’s take a look at Talent Trees


    Line 1

    Adds 0,5/1/1,5/2/2,5% damage as cold

    Adds 0,5/1/1,5/2/2,5% damage as fire

    Adds 0,5/1/1,5/2/2,5% damage as lightning

    Adds 0,5/1/1,5/2/2,5% damage as arcane

    Adds 0,5/1/1,5/2/2,5% damage as poison

    Line 2

    1 hand melee
    ncreases damage done by 1 hand melee weapons by 3/6/9/12/15%

    2 hand melee
    Increases damage done by 2 hand melee weapons 3/6/9/12/15%

    1 hand ranged
    Increases damage done by 1 hand ranged weapons 3/6/9/12/15%

    2 hand ranged
    Increases damage done by 2 hand ranged weapons 3/6/9/12/15%

    Misc damage
    Increases damage bonus with off-hand misc items 4/8/12/16/20%

    Line 3
    Damage %
    +1/2/3/4/5% Damage

    Min-Max damage
    +10-20/20-40/30-60/40-80/50-100 Damage

    Critical strike chance
    Critical Hit Chance Increased by 0.5/1/1.5/2/2.5%

    Critical damage
    Critical Hit Damage Increased by 10/20/30/40/50%

    Attack speed
    Attack Speed Increased by 1/2/3/4/5%

    Line 4

    Fire rain
    Chance to cast Rain of Fire on hit, that deals 10/20/30/40/50% weapon damage

    Toxic hyrda
    Chance to cast Toxic Hydra on hit, that deals 5/10/15/20/25% weapon damage every sec for 3 sec and slows enemy attack by 3%

    Frozen orb
    Chance to cast Frozen Orb on hit, that deals 7/14/21/28/35% weapon damage as cold and has a chance to freeze enemies for 1 sec

    Chain lightning
    Chance to cast Chain Lightning on hit, that deals 40/45/50/55/60% weapon damage as lightning to 4 targets. Each jump decreases effect by 10%.

    Arcane void
    Chance to cast Arcane Void on hit, that increases your attack speed by 3% and deals 10/17/24/31/38% damage as arcane every sec for 2 sec to all monsters in range.

    Line 5

    Increases attack speed by 2/4/6/8/10% and damage by 2/4/6/8/10%

    Every attack has chance to grant 4/8/12/16/20 main stat, up to 10 stacks, last 5 sec. After reaching 10 stacks it explodes and deals 200% weapon damage

    Each hit has a 3/6/9/12/15% chance to deal additional swing

    Every hit has a chance to create your own copy for 30 sec that deals 10/15/20/25/30% damage. Cannot occur more than every 2 minutes.

    Adds random elemental damage to every attack


    Line 1

    Block chance
    +1/2/3/4/5% Chance to Block

    Block value
    Increases block value by 200/400/600/800/1000

    Melee damage reduction
    Reduces damage from melee attacks by 0.5/1/1.5/2/2.5%

    Missile damage reduction
    Reduces damage from ranged attacks by 0,5/1/1,5/2/2,5%

    Dodge chance
    Increases dodge chance by 1/2/3/4/5%

    Line 2

    Max life %
    Increases max life by 2/4/6/8/10%

    Increases armor by 2/4/6/8/10%

    All resistances
    Increases all resistances by 2/4/6/8/10%

    Crowd control
    Reduces duration of control impairing effects by 2/4/6/8/10%

    Pickup radius
    Increases Gold and Health Pickup by 1/2/3/4/5 Yards

    Line 3

    Leech life
    0.2/0.4/0.6/0.8/1% of Damage Dealt Is Converted to Life

    Life on hit
    Each Hit Adds +60/120/180/240/300 Life

    Hp regen per sec
    Regenerates 70/140/210/280/350 Life per second

    Life after kill
    +450/900/1350/1800/2250 Life after Each Kill

    Health from globes
    Health Globes and Potions Grant +500/1000/1500/2000/2500 Life

    Line 4

    Ice armor
    Chance to cast Ice armor on struck, that slows monsters by 5/10/15/20/25%

    Chance to cast Entangling roots on struck, that prevent monsters from moving and deals 5/12/19/26/33% damage every sec for 2 sec.

    Chance to create own copy, that deals no damage and have 10/15/20/25/30% your max hp

    Arcane stomp
    Chance to stun enemy for 0.5/1/1.5/2/2.5 seconds on struck.

    Chance to strike back on struck for 25/38/51/64/77% damage

    Line 5

    Each block and dodge increases max life by 1/2/3/4/5%, up to 5 stacks. Last 5 sec.

    Reflect 10/20/30/40/50% damage to attackers, damage reflected is increased by melee/ranged damage reduction x5 (%)

    Creates elemental shield that increases all resist by 3/6/9/12/15% and absorbs 50/100/150/200/250 damage each hit on struck

    Every hit taken has a chance to reduce damage taken by 1%, stacks up to 2/4/6/8/10 Last 2 sec.

    Adds block value x3/6/9/12/15 as damage to each hit

    Note: Skills list is may change, there are some other ideas like: armor/resistance penetration (if monsters will receive them), support for thorns in items, synergy between: offensive and defensive trees, trees and skills, trees and followers, trees and other players etc.

    Primal Elements

    What’s the idea to introduce this system ?
    Elements aren’t important at all right now. Primal Elements system will change it !

    How it works ?
    After crafting Primal Element character starts to gain bonuses from skills and items with equal element. Example:
    If player creates Primal Poison, all skills, that deal poison damage will get additional effects. Also if any item adds poison damage to attacks – it will be increased too.

    • Ice
      • Slows enemy by 5-10%
      • Chance to freeze monster on hit: 2%
      • Damage done by cold skills/items increased by 15%
    • Lightning
      • Chance to cast Chain Lightning on hit, that deals 60% weapon damage as lightning and hits 3 enemies. Every jump hits 15% damage less
      • Chance to paralyze monster on hit: 2%
      • Damage done by lightning skills/items increased by 15%
    • Arcane
      • Chance to cast Arcane Sphere on struck. Monsters in sphere are slowed by 20% and are damaged for 10% weapon damage as arcane every sec for 3 seconds.
      • Attack speed increased by 3%
      • Damage done by arcane skills/items increased by 15%
    • Fire
      • Chance to burn enemy on hit. All monsters in range of 3 yards are damaged for 20% weapon damage as fire every sec for 2 seconds.
      • Damage taken from fire decreased by 5%
      • Damage done by fire skills/items increased by 15%
    • Poison
      • Slows enemy attack speed on hit by 5%
      • Chance to cast Poison Explosion on struck, that deals 30% weapon damage as poison and 5% damage as poison every sec for 4 seconds.
      • Damage done by poison skills/items increased by 15%
    • Physical
      • Chance to cast frenzy, that increases attack speed and damage done by 10% for 10 seconds. Every second effect losses 1%.
      • Adds 100-250 damage.
      • Damage done by physical skills/items increased by 15%.
    Road to elements
    All we need to create Primal Element is on Inferno. Unique monsters have a chance to drop plans that describe how to create Primal Element. It says, that after acquiring 6 essences Blacksmith will be able to craft Element for us, but there’s only 20% chance to success. Blacksmith can also destroy it If player want to change active Element (for 200 000 gold price)

    Let’s talk about history

    Before war between Burning Hells and High Heavens started, 6 mighty Demons decided to rule our world. Each of them mastered different element and created his own chamber, that cannot be find without special keys. Because of being slaves, unique monsters have a chance to drop those keys and enable us to try to kill those Demons (Keys only drop from unique monsters, that occur randomly). Chance to drop keys from unique monsters and essences from Demons depends on monster power level (7% each MP, up to 70%).
    • Chamber of fire – whole chamber in fire, because of temperature inside character losses 1% max hp every sec. Every 30 seconds temperature rises dramatically and character losses 20% max hp. Damage done by fire inside chamber is increased by 15%
    • Chamber of ice – frozen chamber, characters are slowed by 20%. Every 30 seconds everything freezes for 2 seconds. Damage done by cold inside chamber is increased by 20%
    • Chamber of arcane – damage done by all elements except arcane is decreased by 30%. Arcane damage is increased by 20%
    • Chamber of poison – swamp, acid air cause player to get random debuff every 15 seconds:
      • Character losses 500 hp/s
      • Decrease random resistance by 50%
      • Decrease damage done by 30%
      • Decrease max life by 20%
      • Decrease armor by 20%
    • Chamber of lightning – storm inside chamber. Every 15 seconds lightning strikes in random places. Character get debuff +10% damage taken from lightning after getting hit
    • Chamber of pain – bloody chamber. Characters get buff +20% hp, +10% physical damage. After 20 seconds every 10 seconds character starts to lose 1% armor and resistances, but it increases damage done by 1%
    Fight with demons won’t be so easy
    1. Each demon deals damage dependent on its element
    2. Demons are immune to crowd control effects (you can only slow demon, up to 30%)
    3. Demons are immune to effects of chambers
    4. After 6 minutes of fight each demon will enrage, increasing its damage by 200%

    Demon abilities
    • Fire
      • Fire chains – demon pulls up characters, immobilizing them and dealing 5000 damage every sec for 3 seconds.
      • Fire aura – every 40 seconds demon burns and deals 4000 damage as fire to all characters in range of 10 yards every sec for 10 seconds.
    • Ice
      • Ice armor – 2% chance to freeze attacking characters.
      • Frozen death – every 20% life demon summons Frozen Orb in random place. Player has to destroy it within 10 seconds or it’ll explode, reducing hero life to 1%.
    • Arcane
      • Void – demon summons 3 pillars linked with chains. Every character in zone is slowed by 30% and damaged by 3000 damage every sec till destroying pillars or leaving zone created by chains
      • Split – at 75, 50 and 25% demon splits up to 3 lesser demons. They join together If each of them losses at last 25% max life.
    • Poison
      • Slime – demon has 5% chance to slow hero attack speed by 20% for 10 seconds.
      • Acid – demon creates cloud of poison, that deals 1000 damage as poison. Every second in cloud increases damage taken by 1000. Cloud lasts for 15 seconds.
    • Lightning
      • Thunder – every 15 seconds demon cast thunder, that deals 10 000 damage as lightning. 5% chance to stun for 2 seconds.
      • Static field – shield, that reflects 1% damage taken
    • Physical
      • Berserk – every 40 seconds demon gets a buff, that increases its attack speed and damage by 1% every second for 10 seconds. After that buff disappears and demon gets debuff, that decreases its damage done by 10%.
      • Lecher – Demon has 10% chance to regenerate 1 000 000 life on hit.

    Skills element re-forge

    Skills element re-forge system is based on changing active skills elements, so it would be great to connect it with Primal Element system. I personally think, that it would be awesome to see 4 wizards in one game, all using Archon skill, but with different element: Fire, Poison, Cold and Lightning.

    1. Open players for new skills and builds.
    2. Link skills with Primal Element system
    3. Encourage players to stay with current build because of new costs.

    Road to our perfect build
    To protect from all people getting best skills few hours after releasing this system, there will be some randomization. Mystic will be able to modify our skills, but he needs special materials:
    1. 2 essences of specific element
    2. 10 demonic essences
    3. 150 000 gold
    4. Luck – we have only 40% to success
    5. More luck – we cannot choose, which rune we obtain, it’s totally randomized (we could even get modified skill with no active rune !)

    After re-forging our skill, all runes of that skill becomes unavailable unless we visit Mystic again to destroy link and active Element (cost 100 000 gold)

    Feel free to comment and criticise :Thumbs Up:
  • #2
    Oh boy, there goes another 5+ minutes of my life reading what seems to be another awesome suggestion thread.

    Will post feedback and criticism later on when I read it all :P
  • #3
    There are some interesting ideas here, specifically your skills element forging system. I too always thought elemental damage on weapons didn't seem very useful besides adding an overall damage bonus to that weapon. Elemental damage was always an important factor in D2 because of monster resistances. It seems like they ended up having a system in place similar to that but abandoned it altogether.

    The only issue I have with forging is when you forge a specific skill, people are going to be forced to use that skill because it has your bread and butter elemental damage bonuses on it. This moves away from Blizzard's philosophy of being able to try different builds until you can conjure up the 30mil to reforge. I suppose for me personally it would 't be too bad, but for Blizzard I think they were trying to move away from the permanent skills allocation model that D2 had, but maybe that is going to change with the plans they have for the new Paragon system.

    All in all, you've got your thinking cap on. Thanks for sharing :)
  • #4
    As much as I ever loved D2 tree talent system and also I suggested to bring it back long time ago, I have to say: please no! I don't want a talent tree in Diablo 3.

    I think that one of the best things (maybe the only one? ahah joking :D ) that this dev team has made was this new kind of freedom in choosing skills.
    I know it has a lot of problems due to balance, but that doesn't mean it's bad.
    As I've just wrote, I think it's awesome and future implementations of skills/talents/whatever must follow this.

    So I have to disagree on both Talent system and also on the "skills element reforge" (at least at this point - the game needs something else) because I think that Blizzard has to first balance all runes/skills and then move on to create a system like you suggested... infact I think that having the chance to choose what element you want for your attacks is something that I'd really love to do so...

    ... I agree with the Primal Elements part of your idea.

    Good thoughts but unfortunately I have to disagree with most of them :(
  • #5
    I agree with you, Edriel, in some part. But those are only ideas, that can be modified in any way. I'm proud of Primal Element System, because it will give us some new possibilities. New bosses, new effects. With modified Skill Reforge (no additional cost of removing rune) it could bring so much fun, by playing your favourite skills with benefits.
  • #6
    Very good ideas, and incredible work you put into it.
    My only problem are the costs. Like I've said in other threads, when you attach costs of tens of millions, then only the people that spend a lot of time on the AH can use it, leaving out the people that just like to spend their time in-game. Personally, I've never had 30M, for example.
  • #7
    Quote from maka

    Very good ideas, and incredible work you put into it.
    My only problem are the costs. Like I've said in other threads, when you attach costs of tens of millions, then only the people that spend a lot of time on the AH can use it, leaving out the people that just like to spend their time in-game. Personally, I've never had 30M, for example.

    I fully agree with you. If a Self Found ladder were to be implemented the costs should be drastically reduced. Maybe the costs should consist of just materials like demonic essences. Those high prices achieve nothing if the aim is to get away from the AH and personally i have never held on to more than 2 mil gold.
  • #8
    Quote from Vladh

    I fully agree with you. If a Self Found ladder were to be implemented the costs should be drastically reduced. Maybe the costs should consist of just materials like demonic essences. Those high prices achieve nothing if the aim is to get away from the AH and personally i have never held on to more than 2 mil gold.

    Good point :d3d:
  • #9
    Yellonek, did you design those talent icons yourself?
  • #10
    Quote from maka

    Yellonek, did you design those talent icons yourself?

    Nope, they're WoW icons (at least some of them I remember from WoW). Interested in a game? Find all icons on that page: :P
  • #11
    Gj on putting this together op, looks very nice.

    I agree with Maka though, gold costs need to be minimal. I would just follow the D2 route on respeccing and only need drops for it, like essences and your bones idea. Id also get rid of the negative paragon levels and the debuffs. Just having to spend hours farming for the drops should be more than enough.
    ^ YouTube.Com/IceBleuGaming ! It's a thing! Check it oooout!
  • #12
    Ah, OK, thanks.
  • #13
    I'll change gold cost later and add some new mats as a subsittute. Stay tuned, it will be better for self found.
  • #14
    Monster stat modification:


    absolutely desirable. Monsters lack character and I think this would be a nice start. I'd like to see more flavoured options though:
    For example a 75% resistance to area of effect damage. Or reduce damage taken by 3000 per hit. This way hard hitting abilties would be better than dots.
    The opposite would also be nice to see. A strong immunity towards hard hitting abilities, but an amplifier for dots.
    Maybe you could even give weapons more character that way, by giving the monsters high armor vs. special types of weapons. 33% resistance agains two hand axes. Or do the opposite and increase damage taken by other weapon types. For example small piece of shit monsters could take 50% additional damage from fast, one handed weapons.

    Paragon mastery:


    Obviously this is the most standardized way to introduce uniqueness to the paragon system. It has flaws, but the benefits, even in such a simple tree are quite huge.
    It shows what players actually desire: Progression. People want to grow stronger over time and a simple +x% damage after x levels is of course a fine solution. However, the problem comes once the player is maxed. At this point itll only serve the purpose of customization but I still think this could be a quite fun concept.
    As for the suggested stats, they are "okay". The first 3 lines dont make me go "jay", I think there could be more fun things in that tree. Maybe an immunity to one of the crowd control affixes of monsters (you see your friend getting vortexed in, but you are immune to it, so you laugh at him). Maybe a stackable buff everytime you reach a certain % of hp (gain 50 strength every time you drop below 30% total hp) encouraging the player to interact a ltitle bit differently. Gain 50% more resources when you hit a certain type of monsters (monsters that are coloured black, monsters that are smaller than your character, monsters that are casters)

    Primal Elements:


    First thing: Craftables neeeeed randomization. Reduce costs by a factor of 100. Increase randomziation by a factor of 100^2. The idea of putting a certain "mark" or "seal" on top of your character is of course great but even then I'm not certain about tying it so strictly to elements. Maybe make it resemble the angels or even more absurd angels or demons? And every time you proc something with that primal thing, you flare for a moment, showing other players your true colours (yuk, that player holds a mark of Andariel, I dont like him).
  • #15
    Quote from Bagstone

    Quote from maka

    Yellonek, did you design those talent icons yourself?

    Nope, they're WoW icons (at least some of them I remember from WoW). Interested in a game? Find all icons on that page: http://www.wowwiki.c...con_List/Images :P

    I think they will run out of possibilities to align coloured pixels in such a small circle quite soon.
  • #16
    1st post update:

    - Some changes in gold/material cost in all systems. More items to find, less gold to spend.

    @ Melt:
    Good ideas, probably tommorow I'll write another update ;)
  • #17
    Awesome :D will read it in more detail later.

    Love the Dodge/Block gives maxlife for a short while!
    Make your peace...Quickly!
  • #18
    I elaborated on the idea of giving weapon strengths and weaknesses. The idea is that you give weapons damage boni/mali against certain types of enemies:

    These bonuses could apply to weapons that are Ilvl 63 and of rare or magic quality.

    For example you have a two handed axe and hit an elite beast in act 1:

    Following bonuses apply = two handed heavy bonus (1.25), axe heavy bonus (1.1), axe beast bonus (1.25), axe rares bonus (1.05)
    Instead of the normal damage you would hit for 1.25*1.1*1.25*1.05 = 1.80 = 180% of your normal damage (a one handed axe would deal 137%)(a two handed mace would deal 158%)

    But if you were to attack a Sand Wasp from act 2:

    two handed flyer malus (0.8), two handed small malus (0.8), axes flyer malus (0.95), axes shooter bonus (1.05), axes small bonus (1.05), axes beast bonus (1.25), axes rare bonus (1.05)
    You would hit for 0.8*0.8*0.95*1.05*1.05*1.25*1.05=0.83 = 83% of your normal damage (a one handed axe would deal 151%)(a two handed mace would deal 54%)

    I think it's understandable what this is trying to do... Make certain weapon types stronger in certain areas and weaker in others

    You could even tie in the Mystic to this system by letting her put an affix on a weapon:
    "Weapon Mastery 1-100" Depending on how high the affix is rolled upon enchant, the weaponspecific bonuses apply to the weapon. If it is gets 100 it means the full bonus is applied by another 100%. Such a weapon would have huge benefits in one area, but huge detriments in another.

    If the two handed axe from above would be enhanced with 100 Weapon Mastery it could super insanely strong against the act 1 beasts (324%!!) but rather weak against the sanw wasps (68%).
  • #19
    sry delete plz
  • #20
    Nice post, well done!

    I like a lot of your ideas, especially the Paragon Skill Tree. If I were to add one suggestion it would be to make sure the skills are all cool exciting abilities, and not just boring old 1% extra damage with swords or two handers etc.

    I mean, we've all been down the X% more damage road many times. But change those dull options to new exciting skills, skills that really have an impact on your character and you can visually see. I'm thinking more along the lines of the example you gave "Fire Rain", and not so much the haste/might/blaze route.

    Sure it would be great to have some free pick up radius etc from the skill tree, but bake the boring stuff in with the cool stuff. Rather than just haste, why not have something along the lines of "Fury of the Lacuni - Melee/Spell hits have a chance to throw a fireball at a random nearby enemy. Also increases your attack speed by X". That way, not only do you get the base stat increase - but you get this cool new graphic and things start to get interesting.

    Great post, and I'm not trying to pull it apart in any way, I'm just trying to add in some ideas I've had for a long time!
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