Blizzard is Unaware of Diablo 3's Downfall...

  • #273
    Quote from ProzaicMuze

    Quote from Xenocow

    Quote from Bagstone
    It's difficult enough to balance the existing affixes right now, more effects/affixes make it even more difficult.


    Not really difficult.
    They just need to take a deep look and get rid of all the crap affixes/suffixes.
    Like Int on a 2H weapon, or Dex on a Wand... Storm Crows with Str. etc.

    Its a simple patch, and the game would become so much better.


    It pains me whenever I see people saying "get rid of the crappy stat rolls/affixes" when half their listed examples are simply wrong.

    A Staff is a 2H weapon. It can and SHOULD have INT. The only primary stat you can make a reasonable argument against is Dex because dodge isn't as universal as the Armor from STR or Resistances from INT.


    But...then they'd have to stop and thinking about it instead of spewing a simple sound bite!
    I could accept the statement if it had some logical limitations, like no dex on wands. Although I think it's just a reaction to seeing a really good item that flops cause it doesn't have the best +affix. Maybe if it were certain items had a reduced chance to get certain affixes, and increased others (so wands were more likely to get int, bows more likely to get dex, etc), because I don't think anyone would turn any item down because it has +stat in addition to the ones they want (well, maybe Vit if you're trying to keep heal effectiveness high).

    Quote from RPage

    Blizzard promised to many things for this game prerelease, like WD's puking on their summoned dogs which gave the dogs poison or fire enhancement... subtle little things, but broken promises none the less. And not to forget: PVP

    I hope Blizzard and the new appointed game director can bring D3 back to a worthy status.


    Well, to be fair, I thought they were pretty honest about what was going to make it in to the game before they released it. Perhaps the lesson here is "treat all material before the release of the game as what it is, alpha or beta, unless directly claimed to be something else." AKA, beta is beta.

    This actually leads me to something I think blizzard needs to stop doing - stop showing us stuff about games 4 years before they come out. Heck, don't even bother officially announcing it until a few months before it releases, and you're pretty sure it will be in the game. Less disappointment when something that looked cool, but doesn't work as, is get's cut.

    And per your last quote - I think it's already worthy, but I too hope the new director continues to improve the game. Maybe in 10 years this game will be at least comparable to the status of D2.
  • #274
    Quote from RPage

    Blizzard promised to many things for this game prerelease, like WD's puking on their summoned dogs which gave the dogs poison or fire enhancement... subtle little things, but broken promises none the less. And not to forget: PVP

    I hope Blizzard and the new appointed game director can bring D3 back to a worthy status.


    No one has promised you or anyone else anything. Like any game development far before release features are planned and scrapped. The information on what was scraped was public and it was your choice whether you like the changes or not. But nothing is ever promised.

    If they said "puking WDs will be in the game, we promise", then sure. I'll agree.

    Quote from TheDFO

    This actually leads me to something I think blizzard needs to stop doing - stop showing us stuff about games 4 years before they come out. Heck, don't even bother officially announcing it until a few months before it releases, and you're pretty sure it will be in the game. Less disappointment when something that looked cool, but doesn't work as, is get's cut.


    Some people now actually want a slate of sorts, in which Blizzard can tell them what they're working on internally so that they can, I dunno, prevent features they don't like? No idea.

    Ha. Bagstone.

  • #275
    Quote from overneathe
    No one has promised you or anyone else anything. Like any game development far before release features are planned and scrapped. The information on what was scraped was public and it was your choice whether you like the changes or not. But nothing is ever promised.


    Yeah but isnt it sad they promote a game over years, and scratching one feature after the next from the list, and dont even replace them with equally awsome stuff ?

    I dunno man, Blizzard never had to use cheap tactics like this before.
    They must have been thinking something when they done that. Perhaps Company Politics or so.
    Reserving Content to generate More Money later on or so.

    Blizzard Games always stood for very high quality standards, really epic gameplay.
    Games you still install and play Years after release.

    Perhaps its the Activision Influence.
    Perhaps its the Fact that Blizzard North is gone.
    Or maybe they just lost the Magic Fingers to create something golden.

    Time will show.
  • #276
    I still remember how fucking difficult was Warcraft I.... god, it was beyond stupid how hard it was, but awesome at the same time for some reason.
  • #277
    Quote from Xenocow

    Yeah but isnt it sad they promote a game over years, and scratching one feature after the next from the list, and dont even replace them with equally awsome stuff ?

    I dunno man, Blizzard never had to use cheap tactics like this before.


    ... announcing features that are subsequently scrapped is a new tactic? From Blizzard? I think you mean it's something that's as old as engineering that everyone does.

    ... and if you think it's something Blizzard only just started doing, I should probably remind you that Warcraft Adventures had so many features scrapped, it ceased to exist.
  • #278
    Xeno, listen to yourself. Cheap tactics? They develop things internally and on the long run don't find them fun/in order with the rest of the mechanics and remove them. They waste time on them but scrap them for the good of the game, which is based on their evaluation of it having it backstage for years. And those are cheap tactics? Do you know what it is to work weeks/months on something and realize it's not up to par and start anew? You think this is done to promote the game? Everyone is sad these features didn't make live, but trust me when I say the saddest are the people that created them. "Replacing" said features is very easy to say, but replace them how and why? How do you replace charms for example? Is it not better to postpone them, seeing as they're a great idea but are not yet implemented without it being an exact cut and paste from D2? Would you be happy if they were simply cut and paste? Adding bulk to your inventory that you'll only want to include crit and attack speed anyway... is just not a good idea. It wasn't the greatest of ideas in Diablo 2 as well because you wanted the same stats on your charms as on your gear... it's just... it's nothing. It adds no depth at all. The only thing it did was enlarge the loot hunt slightly. But anyway, I won't go in details on these things or any of the other features as there are other places to discuss those.

    If you want to say good things about Blizzard you can say they've always stood for polish and longevity, because "quality and epicness" are subjective in this sense. Both things are included in all of their games and are in them a decade later. They've never had a super-solid start with any of their games. They never think their games would be incredible hits and sell in the tens of millions thus why the bad starts for WoW and D3. Really, would you predict the game would sell so well? If you were an analyst, looking at the super dry ARPG market, would you keep a straight face and say "you're going to sell 10 million relatively quickly, because D2 was the bomb 10 years ago". PoE didn't anticipate 75k players and their servers started wearing out, so they ordered new ones.. No one said anything though. At least I don't remember seeing any criticism. Was there any? Yet Blizzard didn't anticipate 3.5 million in the first few hours and they're a super stupid company. I mean, almost all companies in the world get 3.5 million players on their servers on day 1, no? That's a normal number for first day sales, right? Every company should anticipate that by having way too many servers ready and on stand by. I don't even know why I went with the initial release fiasco thing, but I guess it's been piling up a bit and I needed to let it out. So there.

    So. How is the gameplay less epic than Diablo 2? The only things I miss from there are some of the old voice overs that made it slightly more epic in storytelling. I don't like that Tyrael was made into an idiot. But that's life. The same guy that wrote the stories for Diablo 1 and Diablo 2 wrote the one for Diablo 3. The same guy that created Deckard Cain killed him. Where to point the finger? If it was a new guy he would've been torn apart, but now what? Nothing. I just accept it and move to what I like more in the game.

    Blizzard North are gone and WoW and StarCraft sold tremendously and are enjoying their long lives. No impact there. Diablo 3 will do the same. The game sold 2 million copies after all the negative feedback from "fans". 2 million. Do you know how many companies even reach those numbers? And for an ARPG? North has almost no impact on the reputation or success of Blizzard. Not to mention Blizzard have had more influence on North then the opposite, which I'm sure you know because of me constantly repeating how Brevik and Schaefer wanted a turn based claymation game and Blizzard just said "no, or we're not financing you" in every topic I possibly can, because it needs to be understood. Outside of the core player base, which is me, you and the rest of these forums and a few others, no one has even heard of North or has any idea about neither creating the first 2 Diablo games nor that without Blizzard the first game would've been completely different and a second game likely wouldn't have been made. New fans don't care and thankfully are not burdened by nostalgia.

    The more people talk about North the more I realize how people just refuse to think clearly. Blizzard saw potential in their game, financed it, influenced it, paid their checks and they released a mutual product. Same goes for the sequel. The third part Blizzard didn't like and North scrambled across the world on their own behalf. Failed with one game and split even further. Now half the team is no longer even in the industry. Some of them are thankfully working on Torchlight and some are trying hard to create something "new", even though there have been previous attempts at Marvel ARPGs.

    Ha. Bagstone.

  • #279
    We don't release Games until they are done. -Blizzard

    Well... it is done... talking ambiguous.

    They should have pushed the Release back. Angry Fans or not.

    With "Cheap Tactics" i've ment the usual business & marketing Model used today.
    Show much, deliver little. Once you got the Cash, it doesnt matter anyway.

    Kinda like going to the Cinema because the 90 Second Trailer you saw on TV looked so fucking awsome.
    After the Movie is over, you realise the 90 Second Trailer was the best Part of the entire Thing.
  • #280
    I completely agree. They should've postponed the game. But they were subdued by the "fans" and this is their punishment. Hopefully lesson learned.

    Again though, cheap tactics is not what we're observing here. What else were they to show at game conventions, not to mention their own conventions, but features that are under development. At 2008 all features were under development anyway. I'm all for silent development as I've seen this can yield much greater rewards to developers, but I am not the majority. No, I want silent development exactly because I'm not the majority.

    Ha. Bagstone.

  • #281
    I am all for Open Source, specially in a big MMO.

    In a pure single player game i share your Opinion.

    Diablo3 should have been extensively tested in a closed Beta to the max Level with everything.
    You can do that AND protect the entire lore with some effort. They have decided not to do that.
    Why though ?

    They do it in Starcraft...
    They also do it in WoW (well, at least a pretty good chunk).
  • #282
    They had a 10 month Beta. All Blizzard games have at the most a 7 month Beta. Whether the Beta should've been for the entire game... I don't know. We'll never know as it wasn't. Do you think the 10 months would've been enough to fix the "itemization" issues and the such?

    Ha. Bagstone.

  • #283
    No.. no the itemization probably, but the level of polish of the game (just right after release and now) is terrible.
  • #284
    Please, explain what is wrong with the polish.

    Ha. Bagstone.

  • #285
    There are a lot of things, mostly quality of life stuff, that evidently didn't make it to the second cycle of polish iteration. This thread is one of the many examples.

    Let alone all of those features that were scrapped, that means they rushed the release, and when you rush things, you can't expect that the polish is good, or that the game is even properly tested. And it happened exactly that.

    I'm actually ok that this game or any other has flaws, what worries me most, is the extremely long time they take to fix those flaws, even the little ones that could take 1 day of coding and 1 day of testing, mostly quality of life stuff, like gems ID for example.

    When you start accumulating details like that everywhere in the game, you understand that the game's polish is bad.
  • #286
    Sorry I guess we have different meanings for the word polish, which is alright. With polish I understand the smoothness of animations and combat, that feeling of it being "right" and not odd in any way. Responsiveness. Intuitive keyboard and mouse gestures that you can remember instantly and don't think about while you play the game.

    What you mentioned to me is just that - quality of life. They don't really take me out of the game or annoy me as much as I've seen they annoy other players. Mounts in MMO games are quality of life, but are they polish? Well, I don't think anyone can agree of whether you or I are right for the term. Or, well, surely some people will argue, but I digress.

    Ha. Bagstone.

  • #287
    OP. It's not that blizzard doesn't realise the downfall. It's that haters like you don't realise D3 is a great game, and all the negativity is simply because people had too much expectation. There are still millions who enjoyed it, and thousands are still enjoying it. No game is meant for forever entertainment. It's $60 for Christ sakes. How much entertainment do you expect to get from $60 in this modern world?
  • #288
    Donnalee, I wish I could be more like you, so I could enjoy games like I did in my old times. Thing is, when you played several games in the past (I'm almost 31), your standard become quite high. Maybe this new generation of gamers only look for shiny things, and 1 week later move on. That wasn't the case of how I played games in the past.

    I still remember being stuck for weeks in a particular part of the game The Dig, and still enjoying every single attempt to solve a puzzle. Right now seems like gamers pay 60 bucks, play a game for a week or two, and repeat. It's kind of sad to be honest.
  • #289
    I was surprise by the time that they had to make this game and came out a so simple and raw game... come on, its almost a D1/D2 with a better grafics, or maybe this is it.

    In my opinion the only reason they sell so many and still selling d3 copies its because ppl are playing bots to make money of it. If was not the Rmah, I really dont think this game would be alive, I mean, not alive but with many ppl online.

    Coming from a rich/big company like Blizz and the time took to release this game, I really expected something at least amazing. I did not play it, but I have seen many many ppl saying that Torch light 2 is way better than d3, once again, I think the only thing that makes d3 really different is the Rmah.
  • #290
    Quote from Indimix

    Donnalee, I wish I could be more like you, so I could enjoy games like I did in my old times. Thing is, when you played several games in the past (I'm almost 31), your standard become quite high. Maybe this new generation of gamers only look for shiny things, and 1 week later move on. That wasn't the case of how I played games in the past.

    I still remember being stuck for weeks in a particular part of the game The Dig, and still enjoying every single attempt to solve a puzzle. Right now seems like gamers pay 60 bucks, play a game for a week or two, and repeat. It's kind of sad to be honest.


    For me it's completely the same. Like, all what you wrote. The only difference is that I don't think the game is to blame, it's just me.

    Recently (yesterday or so) I read somewhere else on these forums that "WarCraft 1 was so freaking hard, all of today's games are easy as pie". I had to laugh when I read this. I remember well how I managed to finish WarCraft 1 about 20 years ago, and it felt like a major achievement. For the sake of super nostalgia I installed it a couple of years ago and did another play through. WarCraft 1 and difficult? This game is ridiculously easy. Finished both campaigns in a few hours without any restart or problems or so. So what's the difference? Did the game became weaker over time? No. The difference is that I have 20 years of experience playing computer games. So many things that I mentioned in my wizard guide, for example, aren't even things that I learned in D3, but from all the other ARPGs, MMOs, RPGs that I played. Still, much of this information is news to people; and so is the implementation of these mechanics in the game.

    If you install and play Diablo 1 and 2 again, and try to compare them objectively to D3 (well, I don't think the average human mind is capable of doing that, but let's give it a try) - I don't think that Diablo 3 is weaker, worse, less polished then Diablo 1 or 2. This is not me "guessing", but I actually did this last summer. I'm a sucker for nostalgia and have a lot of old games installed, even some 20+ year old DOS games running in emulators. And this is why I defend Diablo 3 so often on these forums: many of the complaints are from people who expect too much, who don't evaluate the game in its current state, but compare it to the feelings they had when playing Diablo 1 17 years ago. That's just not fair. And even though I can see some of the changes that you want as changes that I'd like to see, too, I tell myself that this is 2013. Furthermore, you can't design a game with the main focus on 30+ years old players like us with 20+ years of gaming experience; most of my friends I shared the D1+D2 gaming experience with don't even have a gaming PC anymore.

    It's a complicated matter, and please trust me that whenever you bring up criticism on these forums there's a part inside of me that says "yes, he's right". But then I think "what would this change mean in the long term development of the game, why hasn't Blizzard implemented it this way, and what would other players with a different playing style think about this"? And oftentimes I realize that there's a good reason for Blizzard to do things the way they do.
  • #291
    Quote from Olivet

    I was surprise by the time that they had to make this game and came out a so simple and raw game... come on, its almost a D1/D2 with a better grafics, or maybe this is it.

    In my opinion the only reason they sell so many and still selling d3 copies its because ppl are playing bots to make money of it. If was not the Rmah, I really dont think this game would be alive, I mean, not alive but with many ppl online.

    Coming from a rich/big company like Blizz and the time took to release this game, I really expected something at least amazing. I did not play it, but I have seen many many ppl saying that Torch light 2 is way better than d3, once again, I think the only thing that makes d3 really different is the Rmah.


    You know bots can't survive without players, right? What exactly do you think the ratio is? One bot per 2 players? 10 players? 100?

    Ha. Bagstone.

  • #292
    Quote from donnalee

    OP. It's not that blizzard doesn't realise the downfall. It's that haters like you don't realise D3 is a great game, and all the negativity is simply because people had too much expectation. There are still millions who enjoyed it, and thousands are still enjoying it. No game is meant for forever entertainment. It's $60 for Christ sakes. How much entertainment do you expect to get from $60 in this modern world?


    Reminded me of when people managed to rack over 100 hours within the first 2 weeks of launch - THEN COMPLAINED and got refunds. How many games can you eek 100 hours of entertainment out of? How does it take you 100 hours to realize you don't like something? /sigh
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