Today I want to talk about the changes in 2.1 PTR to damage scaling of elemental procs on weapons with your elemental damage. Weapons like Thunderfury - which was previously only used for raw damage and crowd control - is now a contender for best in slot. In this video I look at the 3 most popular lightning choices: Thunderfury, Odyn Son, and Shard of Hate. I demonstrate different damage combinations and talk about proc coefficients, internal cooldowns, main hand/off hand mechanics, and more. Enjoy!
As an aside, does anyone have source(s) for proc coefficients, internal cooldowns, and current damage scaling of Odyn Son and Thunderfury? I was told TF has 0.6 proc on live with 1s internal, and not sure about Odyn. I'd like to get some more info because I'll be testing a lightning Raekor's build on PTR and want to present a bit more info on the 'ideal' combo.
I find that my SoH procs 1-2 times every series of 3 primary strikes (monk), using fists of thunder - thunderclap on a dual wield build with 1.99 APS (on each hand). I have noticed that SoH can proc 2 times in a row (1st and 2nd hit in series).
Here is a basic pattern reflecting my common experiences. I have not noticed a change to this pattern on PTR.
1-P-2-3-1-P-2-3-1-P-2-P-3-1-P-2-3-1-P... (at this point it can get wierd and either double proc again, or continue as normal - if it skips here, it will double proc 100% of the time on the next series).
I do not have any specific values to work off of (time required for the completion of 1 series). What I can say is that in 4 successive series, 5 procs are triggered, with a 5th series usually boosting this to 7 procs. I can also say that gauged against an andariel's visage, the SoH procs at a slower rate.
Shard of Hate on live actually has no ICD (or an extremely low one). With weapon throw, I get one proc per attack on live. I dont see how SoH on PTR is any different from SoH on live.
It does have an internal cooldown on live. Test it at around 2aps with weapon throw/mighty throw and see for yourself. On PTR it does not have ICD.
If SoH has an ICD on live - how do you explain that i get one proc per attack with weapon throw? There COULD be an actual ICD, but its equal to or less than the 1.4 attacks per second my test barb is currently doing on live.
Test it at 2APS with weapon throw/mighty throw and see if you still get it every proc.
I find that my SoH procs 1-2 times every series of 3 primary strikes (monk), using fists of thunder - thunderclap on a dual wield build with 1.99 APS (on each hand). I have noticed that SoH can proc 2 times in a row (1st and 2nd hit in series).
Here is a basic pattern reflecting my common experiences. I have not noticed a change to this pattern on PTR.
1-P-2-3-1-P-2-3-1-P-2-P-3-1-P-2-3-1-P... (at this point it can get wierd and either double proc again, or continue as normal - if it skips here, it will double proc 100% of the time on the next series).
I do not have any specific values to work off of (time required for the completion of 1 series). What I can say is that in 4 successive series, 5 procs are triggered, with a 5th series usually boosting this to 7 procs. I can also say that gauged against an andariel's visage, the SoH procs at a slower rate.
Hmm. Thunderclap has a 56% coefficient the first 2 hits and 94% on the 3rd hit. This is on live. It may or may not be different on PTR, but that's why you're not seeing it every time. You have to test it with a basic weapon attack (100% coefficient) to be sure.
I actually mentioned the consecutive procs because they seemed to trigger faster than what should be expected on live servers, as I definitely dish out more than a single hit every second (it seemed to contradict the 1 sec ICD). The info you have provided is really handy too though, so thanks a bunch
Someone mentioned on my channel that SoH and TF have a '1 / APS' ICD. So with an attack speed of 2 APS, you'd be looking at an ICD of 0.5s. I'm not sure if that's true or what the implication is even if it's true, but does anyone have a source or can explain the reason for this?
I actually mentioned the consecutive procs because they seemed to trigger faster than what should be expected on live servers, as I definitely dish out more than a single hit every second (it seemed to contradict the 1 sec ICD). The info you have provided is really handy too though, so thanks a bunch
You're welcome, and I may do more extensive testing, but from what I've seen so far SoH on PTR procs more than it does on live. I can't prove with 100% certainty exactly HOW much more, but it's a lot more for sure. Just compare SoH live vs. PTR with Weapon Throw/Mighty Throw at ~2 APS if you don't believe me.
comparing weapon throw on live to ptr, there is a possibility of a buff, but still, not 100% procc rate. its more like 90%
also a question:
why do you recomment odyn son on mainhand? shouldnt you take the weapon with the highest dmg roll? i got a 2,1k dps and a 2,2k soh. the odyn is near max, but soh 50 below. the point ist just, i could reroll vita on the shard for 10% dmg, meaning a much higher dmg/execute even with higher attack speed.
next point:
you say that its easier to get a good thunderfury. but it always got a socket. this means you cant use the extra socket, wich equals 1 stat less OR you need a really good thunderfury, so you can change the socket to anything else
The blue post you linked doesn't talk about ICD, it just talks about ignoring proc scalar, which was a bug with SoH. I'd have to do more testing to see if it's 100% proc rate based on skill proc scalar, but I would assume so. Why wouldn't it be? Almost every proc is 100% chance (unless noted otherwise) based on skill proc scalar.
I recommend Odyn on mainhand because DPS isn't necessary what matters. Skills that deal %weapon damage scale from weapon damage range, and a 1.2 2k dps mace will have a higher damage range than a 1.4 2.2k dps sword. 2000/1.2 = 1667. 2200/1.4 = 1570. Just look at the min/max range on the weapon you're using.
Yes, it's easier to get a good TF because it always rolls socket and primary stat seems to take priority over vit, so almost EVERY TIME you get a TF you will be able to reroll either 1 stat to 10% or min/max range to 1199-1490.
i guess i wasnt clear about comparing soh with odyn. i was talking about the min/max dmg, wich could be higher on a soh that has +10% dmg. obviously it isnt, if the dmg roll is equal.
about thunderfury:
the point is, you must reforge that socket to another stat to use the extra socket. lets say you have a thunderfury and a soh with these stats. let it be str + vit for both. the third will always be a socket for thunderfury, but not for soh, maybe its cdr oder whatever. so what you have to do is reforge the socket on the thunderfury to be able to use the extra socket.
on the other hand, you can reforge ANY stat on your soh and still be able to use the extra socket.
this means, a weapon w/o a socket will always have an advantage over a weapon with a socket, as long as the rolls on both are not perfect.
Yes, it depends on the damage range, but it would be very hard to get a higher damage range on a 1.4 sword vs. a 1.2 mace, unless the sword was GG and the mace was terrible. A 2400 dps sword will have a slightly higher damage range than a 2000 dps mace.
Good point on the TF, however that's only the case if the other weapon you're comparing it to doesn't have a useless stat like area damage, life on hit, etc. I think in 2.1 the stats you'll want will be this:
min/max
+10%
+main stat
+ vit or CDR
+forged socket
So TF will still be able to roll well fairly often, I think.
http://youtu.be/IoJJZHsTgNY
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MeatHeadGaming - YouTube - Twitch - Facebook - Web
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/12427063132Think it was something along 8 secs per damage type or sth.
Here is a basic pattern reflecting my common experiences. I have not noticed a change to this pattern on PTR.
1-P-2-3-1-P-2-3-1-P-2-P-3-1-P-2-3-1-P... (at this point it can get wierd and either double proc again, or continue as normal - if it skips here, it will double proc 100% of the time on the next series).
I do not have any specific values to work off of (time required for the completion of 1 series). What I can say is that in 4 successive series, 5 procs are triggered, with a 5th series usually boosting this to 7 procs. I can also say that gauged against an andariel's visage, the SoH procs at a slower rate.
It does have an internal cooldown on live. Test it at around 2aps with weapon throw/mighty throw and see for yourself. On PTR it does not have ICD.
8 s?? Not even close. It has an ICD on live, once again, and it seems to be around 1s. No ICD on PTR.
Test it at 2APS with weapon throw/mighty throw and see if you still get it every proc.
Hmm. Thunderclap has a 56% coefficient the first 2 hits and 94% on the 3rd hit. This is on live. It may or may not be different on PTR, but that's why you're not seeing it every time. You have to test it with a basic weapon attack (100% coefficient) to be sure.
MeatHeadGaming - YouTube - Twitch - Facebook - Web
I actually mentioned the consecutive procs because they seemed to trigger faster than what should be expected on live servers, as I definitely dish out more than a single hit every second (it seemed to contradict the 1 sec ICD). The info you have provided is really handy too though, so thanks a bunch
MeatHeadGaming - YouTube - Twitch - Facebook - Web
The blue post you linked doesn't talk about ICD, it just talks about ignoring proc scalar, which was a bug with SoH. I'd have to do more testing to see if it's 100% proc rate based on skill proc scalar, but I would assume so. Why wouldn't it be? Almost every proc is 100% chance (unless noted otherwise) based on skill proc scalar.
I recommend Odyn on mainhand because DPS isn't necessary what matters. Skills that deal %weapon damage scale from weapon damage range, and a 1.2 2k dps mace will have a higher damage range than a 1.4 2.2k dps sword. 2000/1.2 = 1667. 2200/1.4 = 1570. Just look at the min/max range on the weapon you're using.
Yes, it's easier to get a good TF because it always rolls socket and primary stat seems to take priority over vit, so almost EVERY TIME you get a TF you will be able to reroll either 1 stat to 10% or min/max range to 1199-1490.
Hope that helps.
MeatHeadGaming - YouTube - Twitch - Facebook - Web
Good point on the TF, however that's only the case if the other weapon you're comparing it to doesn't have a useless stat like area damage, life on hit, etc. I think in 2.1 the stats you'll want will be this:
min/max
+10%
+main stat
+ vit or CDR
+forged socket
So TF will still be able to roll well fairly often, I think.
MeatHeadGaming - YouTube - Twitch - Facebook - Web