Archon DPS and EHP recommedations vs MP

  • #1
    I posted this on the official forums but there's probably some who come here and ignore those forums, so I'll repost it here too.

    There's been a few of these posted in the past and I thought I'd post one myself for reference. The values are based on my experience at high MP, primarily that I can farm MP9 fairly efficiently with 450k dps and around 450k EHP. With those values you should be able to kill elites in a timely fashion (10-20s for most). Having higher values will obviously make farming easier, so these are more like low end recommendations. I'm guessing a lot of people will recommend much higher EHP values, and I won't argue with that. My only claim is you can make it work with the values listed with the right gearing choices.

    Assumptions:
    Buffed DPS and EHP
    pre-Dodge EHP
    LS weapon+BM
    Improved Archon rune
    Cold Blooded with cold damage follower is optional but helpful
    Sufficient mitigation to not have problems against RD
    450k dps and 450k EHP for MP9 farming
    DPS scales directly with mob health
    EHP scales directly with mob damage
    solo farming both elites and trash mobs


    Minimum Recommended DPS and EHP for each MP
    MP DPS(k) EHP(k)
    0 42 197
    1 57 216
    2 78 237
    3 103 260
    4 132 285
    5 169 312
    6 216 342
    7 276 375
    8 352 411
    9 450 450
    10 630 493

    My personal preference for EHP gearing is to get about as much buffed mitigation and LS to break even against RD mobs, then have a couple Physical resist pieces to push me even further over so I can gain life against them. If you just break even against RD you can still die to them because of their base attacks or if they have extra annoying affixes like plague, desecrator, or electrified (I especially am starting to hate electrified).

    I have no similar table for those who don't use a LS weapon or who run LS weapon but no blood magic. I have always ran with a LS weapon because I find it makes higher MP tons easier

    Feel free to post if you disagree, but please state why so we can get a good discussion going. Posting in agreement is also fine.
    Wizard DPS and EHP Spreadsheet, mostly useful for wizards.
    Crusader DPS and EHP Spreadsheet, meant for Crusaders
    My Wizard
  • #2
    I feel like these values are a bit too high? Maybe all the dps values should be shifted by one. For example MP10 450k dps, MP9 321k and so forth.
  • #3
    I feel like 450k dps is too low for MP10 because the elites can take 20-30s to kill, which really hurts efficiency. On MP9 I feel like the kill times are just right with 450-500k dps against elites.

    However, it's perfectly viable to farm with lower stats, thus these are just baseline recommendations. No one has to use them explicitly and they're not set in stone for everyone. The values are very subjective.
    Wizard DPS and EHP Spreadsheet, mostly useful for wizards.
    Crusader DPS and EHP Spreadsheet, meant for Crusaders
    My Wizard
  • #4
    I always just read.. figured it was time to say something! Haha
    Love your work man! keep it up!

    As far as your values go, id agree that they are slightly high, but then again Iv only been playing in parties sence I switched to fulltime archon, so my input may be invalid. Is this strictly guide lines for solo, group? Perhaps both?
  • #5
    Mostly meant for solo play. I added that a few minutes ago, meant for solo farming of elites and trash mobs. For group play you can probably get by with less dps since mobs should die faster than solo play.
    Wizard DPS and EHP Spreadsheet, mostly useful for wizards.
    Crusader DPS and EHP Spreadsheet, meant for Crusaders
    My Wizard
  • #6
    I agree. I've been doing some testing lately and with my dps, around 420k buffed, I feel confortable farming Mp8. Of course I can farm at higer mp but I feel that I am too slow against elites.....
  • #7
    Quote from Loroese

    I feel like 450k dps is too low for MP10 because the elites can take 20-30s to kill, which really hurts efficiency.


    Yea, I guess you are right. Getting over 600k just seems so damn hard lol
  • #8
    Great chart to aim for at the higher MP levels, and this is nice as a link to people who don't consider their EHP when gearing up (something lots of people forget...)

    But the lower levels just can't work in terms of DPS. I mean, just try to run MP2 with 41k buffed, Archon will drop almost immediately. With less than 100k DPS there's no way you can farm MP4. I see that you just took your MP9 numbers and "scaled" it, but if you just try it out (i.e., run Archon half-naked to gimp your EHP/DPS) I bet this doesn't work out, at least from what I remember from my early Archon times it was tough with less than 100k.

    I'm just saying that because there are many many many players who don't have high DPS gear but don't post here that often (seeing that every second post in the past few weeks was from a 400k+ DPS player it's probably almost intimidating for them to post), but they might read this and just think "WTF". :-)

    But I'm gonna try this out now and see if I can sustain Archon with 41k on MP2 ;-)
  • #9
    Quote from Bagstone

    Great chart to aim for at the higher MP levels, and this is nice as a link to people who don't consider their EHP when gearing up (something lots of people forget...)

    But the lower levels just can't work in terms of DPS. I mean, just try to run MP2 with 41k buffed, Archon will drop almost immediately. With less than 100k DPS there's no way you can farm MP4. I see that you just took your MP9 numbers and "scaled" it, but if you just try it out (i.e., run Archon half-naked to gimp your EHP/DPS) I bet this doesn't work out, at least from what I remember from my early Archon times it was tough with less than 100k.

    I'm just saying that because there are many many many players who don't have high DPS gear but don't post here that often (seeing that every second post in the past few weeks was from a 400k+ DPS player it's probably almost intimidating for them to post), but they might read this and just think "WTF". :-)

    But I'm gonna try this out now and see if I can sustain Archon with 41k on MP2 ;-)


    I'd actually bet it will work because that's how the mob hp scales. I agree it seems very low at low MP but most of the reason higher MP was recommended was to kill elites in like 5-10s. I'm going more for 10-20s. Trash was supposed to be killed almost instantly but I'm fine with it taking 1s or so to kill mobs. The huge xp and loot bonus at higher MP makes it much more worthwhile to push the higher MP now.
    Wizard DPS and EHP Spreadsheet, mostly useful for wizards.
    Crusader DPS and EHP Spreadsheet, meant for Crusaders
    My Wizard
  • #10
    Quote from Loroese

    I'd actually bet it will work because that's how the mob hp scales. I agree it seems very low at low MP but most of the reason higher MP was recommended was to kill elites in like 5-10s. I'm going more for 10-20s. Trash was supposed to be killed almost instantly but I'm fine with it taking 1s or so to kill mobs. The huge xp and loot bonus at higher MP makes it much more worthwhile to push the higher MP now.


    Well, I just tried and I got my ass handed. It doesn't work. I tried MP4 (Keep 2) with 48k DPS and about estimated 400k EHP (~760 allres, ~4800 armor, ~38k HP). There are some white mobs that died quite fast, but the majority of enemies did not die instantly, to the contrary, it was quite a fight and they hit me several times. To make it even worse, despite 2.9% life steal on my weapon the incoming heal was not enough to stay at full health. Needless to say that I was not able to kill the first elite pack that I engaged (some boring health link, teleporter, jailer, +x combination).

    Months ago we told players asking for help to stay at MP1/2 unless they hit 150k-200k DPS, and this was even to people who said they don't care about farming or efficiency, but just want to play on an MP level as high as possible.
  • #11
    I'll try it later if I have time and remember. It might be a matter of Act 1 vs Act 3 since I've mostly been running Act 1 lately, but I wouldn't think it would matter that much.

    You're not going to be killing trash mobs instantly with that dps, that's not really the point. It should still only take 1-2s or less for most though. The huge xp bonus should make up for the slower kill speed, at least in theory.

    I can also add a vid showing my MP9 kill times if that would help give a reference point.
    Wizard DPS and EHP Spreadsheet, mostly useful for wizards.
    Crusader DPS and EHP Spreadsheet, meant for Crusaders
    My Wizard
  • #12
    Ok, I did a little testing myself and while I didn't have any problem keeping Archon up on MP2 with 44k dps, there was a huge issue with survivability against elites. The reason is while I scaled EHP based on mob damage, I didn't account for lower life gain from lower dps. I think I'll factor that into DPS instead since doubling dps gives you twice the life gain. I'll update the table in a bit, after I eat dinner.
    Wizard DPS and EHP Spreadsheet, mostly useful for wizards.
    Crusader DPS and EHP Spreadsheet, meant for Crusaders
    My Wizard
  • #13
    Awaiting your findings before I plug all the info into my video guide :P

    With credit of course.
    Blizzard Entertainment - Diablo III Community MVP
  • #14
    edit: ahh damn, this is about Archon... ignore my post.
  • #15
    Well I updated my dps recommendations a bit. I should test them some, which I'll try to do while watching the basketball game tonight.

    What I did is scaled the dps backwards from MP9 in 2 ways. First I decreased it by the decrease in mob hp. Then I increased it based on the mobs damage. It doesn't really sound like a good scaling method so I'm going to try to work out a better one.
    Wizard DPS and EHP Spreadsheet, mostly useful for wizards.
    Crusader DPS and EHP Spreadsheet, meant for Crusaders
    My Wizard
  • #16
    Cool, looks way more reasonable now.

    I think it would be enough if you'd do a test run with any low DPS/EHP equip and check at which MP level it matches your "feeling" of the equivalent MP9 playstyle. With these two pivot points you could then scale everything in between accordingly, kind of a linear regression.

    Another thing to consider is that no one will pass the 250k EHP mark before the 100k DPS mark. Unless you're playing hardcore, of course. Especially if you're playing in a group there's no point in stacking EHP like crazy if you can make it with less. But that's a different story... you'd have to make thousand tables to meet all of that ;-)

    Great work again, Loroese! I hope others add there $ .02, this could be really helpful as future reference and the more people verify certain values, the more accurate it would be.
  • #17
    Ok, I just tested on MP3 with 108k dps and I removed my helm+shoulders to drop my EHP down to 290k. I thought it was lower but forgot to account for the vit on the lame weapon I bought. That's just under 87% mitigation, which is kind of terrible for me, and 38k hp.

    It worked pretty well, and definitely a lot better than the previous test. Some issues might arise with RD at those levels, particularly if you only have 87% mit, but it's doable. Personally I'd prefer like 30k hp in favor of more mitigation at that MP. Then again 100k dps is very low for Archon now.

    I'll leave the table as is for now. It's not a linear relationship between MP and DPS but a quadratic relationship. At high MP it should be more linear though since high dps means lots of life gain, as long as you have decent mitigation to prevent getting ganked.
    Wizard DPS and EHP Spreadsheet, mostly useful for wizards.
    Crusader DPS and EHP Spreadsheet, meant for Crusaders
    My Wizard
  • #18
    i have been using teleport rune as of late for my archon at mp10 (trash only, skip elites) at 594k buffed with scoundrel's anatomy (hysteria disappears when he's down and with all the teleporting/trash herding, he will die asap)

    even at 594k, mp10 trash (certain ones like phasebeasts and the gang) takes way longer but then again, it should take even longer when you go improved rune since you will have to mow everything down (elites/champs/big trash) as oppose to teleport.

    preference i guess
  • #19
    Quote from pichapie
    preference i guess


    Yep, mostly preference. Guidelines are good to have (because if you're going to run Archon on MP10 with 100K DPS, you might have some trouble).

    And off-topic a bit: sorry pich! I didn't see your post before (just PM me here if you need to find me). I haven't been doing the farm challenge since early this afternoon (~1-2 p.m. EST) and ended up working on more video stuff. I'm 23/40 though!
    Blizzard Entertainment - Diablo III Community MVP
  • #20
    honestly, even with such high dps on my build, i still prefer doing mp5 and mp6 and i'm not even kidding. people been asking me how i amassed such numbers of legs (no frosties and the gang), well this is how i do it

    off topic: also, i don't think people ever bother asking about the arcane smash symbol that's left on the group for a split second. seriously what is that symbol @_@
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