Returning Player

  • #21
    no thoughts? I was hoping for a "don't do it stick to archon and gear that way", "you lack loh to be running cmww" or "great idea buy a chantodos to get the atkspeed and apoc you need" :D
  • #22
    Okay, using this thread again: here is my CM Gear & Build: http://d3up.com/b/274298

    I just looted & sold a Echoing Fury for 600 mil so now I want to enhance my gear a little :D

    The two things I really wanted to do are a Chantodos Offhand with 200+ AvgDmg, 9%CD, 9% IAS, 9+ APoC and ~180 Int so I can remove Slow Time and put a Magic Weapon in and stay at 2,71 APS

    Next thing I wanted to do was to buy a new Tal Rashas with 180+ Int, 150+ Vit, 9% IAS and 180+ Armor do get some more EHP.

    Having that done, I really have no clue what do buy next - my amulet and my rings are crappy I guess but I really dont know what I should look for.

    I wish to get 200k+ buffed dps with the 2,71 breakpoint and a decent amount of EHP - am I aiming to high or to low with 600 mil budget?
  • #23
    1) The breakpoint is 2.73 (2.7273 to be exact), see the guide.

    2) So you have 600 mil now - do you want to spend it all or just a small amount of it? I'm a bit confused because in the beginning many of the hints given were tied to your Archon build, now you're asking for advice about CMWW. Obviously that's something completely different; how much of your money do you want to spend on your CMWW gear?

    3) Some hints, but note that these are just valid for CMWW as that's your current spec on D3up!

    -Chanto OH is a good idea, since you have the money you should definitely go for it
    -I think your Zuni items are a weak spot. The Zuni boot's lack EHP (no allres) and the poison damage bonus is wasted because it only applies to one third of your DPS since Chanto is not a black weapon. Zuni pox are missing IAS, you really want that on a ring as CMWW wizard. Check out Loroese's and my guide for some suggestions; if you're okay with spending quite some money on rings, look into a Natalya set of boots+ring which will boost your crit chance by a lot and also give a huge chunk of DPS; but Nat rings with crit chance are very expensive. Alternative is Firewalkers/Ice Climbers/rare boots and a rare ring (max IAS and CC, some int, allres, armor).
    -If you're fine with spending 100m+ on a helm, you can get a Mempo with crit chance
    -Your amulet has LoH, CC, and IAS - but I really think you should be able to get a good upgrade here that has similar stats plus some more EHP (allres, armor, vit, life%, ...) or more DPS (int). You should be able to find one with same stats plus at least one EHP affix for less than 10 million.
    -Think about some Blackthorne's pants.
    -Your rare ring is really weak. Get one with CMWW stats (always the same: 1. CC 2. IAS 3. some EHP stats 4. int)
    -Your chest, belt, and bracers have almost zero EHP and a huge ton of DPS. That might be nice for Archon and low MPs, but you can't do that on high MPs with CMWW. You can upgrade any (or all of these) to more expensive, EHP-heavy versions or you try to get the attack speed somewhere else (max it on rings, amulet, gloves, offhand, weapon) and replace them with EHP booster rares (or Zuni/Blackthorne for chest piece). Not all of them, of course.

    Hm. At the end I realized I recommended you to switch almost all your items. But I think with 600m you have the chance to upgrade almost every slot significantly. Aim for ~350k EHP and stable CMWW stats (~18 APoC, 2.73 APS, as much crit as possible) and then start caring about DPS (int/crit hit damage are not first priority).
  • #24
    Quote from Bagstone

    1) The breakpoint is 2.73 (2.7273 to be exact), see the guide.

    2) So you have 600 mil now - do you want to spend it all or just a small amount of it? I'm a bit confused because in the beginning many of the hints given were tied to your Archon build, now you're asking for advice about CMWW. Obviously that's something completely different; how much of your money do you want to spend on your CMWW gear?

    3) Some hints, but note that these are just valid for CMWW as that's your current spec on D3up!

    -Chanto OH is a good idea, since you have the money you should definitely go for it
    -I think your Zuni items are a weak spot. The Zuni boot's lack EHP (no allres) and the poison damage bonus is wasted because it only applies to one third of your DPS since Chanto is not a black weapon. Zuni pox are missing IAS, you really want that on a ring as CMWW wizard. Check out Loroese's and my guide for some suggestions; if you're okay with spending quite some money on rings, look into a Natalya set of boots+ring which will boost your crit chance by a lot and also give a huge chunk of DPS; but Nat rings with crit chance are very expensive. Alternative is Firewalkers/Ice Climbers/rare boots and a rare ring (max IAS and CC, some int, allres, armor).
    -If you're fine with spending 100m+ on a helm, you can get a Mempo with crit chance
    -Your amulet has LoH, CC, and IAS - but I really think you should be able to get a good upgrade here that has similar stats plus some more EHP (allres, armor, vit, life%, ...) or more DPS (int). You should be able to find one with same stats plus at least one EHP affix for less than 10 million.
    -Think about some Blackthorne's pants.
    -Your rare ring is really weak. Get one with CMWW stats (always the same: 1. CC 2. IAS 3. some EHP stats 4. int)
    -Your chest, belt, and bracers have almost zero EHP and a huge ton of DPS. That might be nice for Archon and low MPs, but you can't do that on high MPs with CMWW. You can upgrade any (or all of these) to more expensive, EHP-heavy versions or you try to get the attack speed somewhere else (max it on rings, amulet, gloves, offhand, weapon) and replace them with EHP booster rares (or Zuni/Blackthorne for chest piece). Not all of them, of course.

    Hm. At the end I realized I recommended you to switch almost all your items. But I think with 600m you have the chance to upgrade almost every slot significantly. Aim for ~350k EHP and stable CMWW stats (~18 APoC, 2.73 APS, as much crit as possible) and then start caring about DPS (int/crit hit damage are not first priority).


    Thanks a lot, probably going to reread that post a lot :D
    The thing is, I'm satisfied with my Archon Gear, ending up at around 220-230k buffed DPS with enough Lifesteal & EHP to run through MP2-4 giving me around 70mil xp / h.

    Therefor I'd declare the CM Build or lets say gear, more as Endgame - I want to be able to run high MP and run around with friends. Spending the cash on better Archon gear will maybe get me to MP6 or max MP7 (but only solo playable) - I don't see the value in that.

    And yes I want to spend at least 500mil on my CM Gear :)

    Thanks again, really appreciate it!
  • #25
    Quote from Ilyustar

    And yes I want to spend at least 500mil on my CM Gear :)


    Then, before making any purchase, wait for more responses. I'm not that active in this price range, to be honest. You should wait for a second opinion before spending that much money; I take a lot of time before buying anything above a certain threshold.

    P.S.: My Archon gear is at the same stage, but I managed to get a huge DPS buff by getting rid of life steal and switching to "life after each kill" - though it's tricky on higher MPs when you're not 1-shotting everything.
  • #26
    You'll need 56% IAS with your 10% IAS Chanto to reach the 2.73 APS breakpoint. You're at 48% now so you should reach the next breakpoint with a chanto OH.

    Reaching 200k dps is not easy to do as CMWW, especially if you try to keep the 2.73 breakpoint with high mitigation. I'm really not sure you can do that with 600 mil.

    My main suggestion would be to not worry about char sheet dps too much and lower your goal to 130-150k dps. Instead, I'd work on making sure you raise your armor and resists. I think 4500 armor and 700 resists is mostly sufficient for MP10 now that RD has been nerfed. Higher is better but with lower you can still survive with good avoiding skills on MP10. Those stats unbuffed would let you change from Energy Armor to Storm Armor - Shocking Aspect which will greatly raise your effective dps. With 150k dps and SA you would out dps your current build with 200k. You'd probably do the same effective dps as someone using your EA build who has 250-300k dps.

    Alternatively, you can gain a lot of dps by keeping at the 2.5 APS breakpoint and using a black weapon with triumvirate, as shown in my profile. I'm very sure my gear is less than 600 mil worth (probably more like 400 mil total) and I'm at 150k dps with 760 resists and 4400 armor using SA. If you went that route you could pick up more dps with trifecta gloves, ring, and/or amulet in some combination. The downside is the lower breakpoint requires a bit extra LoH (like 10-15% more) than the 2.73 breakpoint.

    I'm actually in about the same spot as you in terms of gearing. I have a 227k buffed Archon build (using my LS weapon) and don't really feel a lot of desire to build that for higher MP. Instead I set up my CMWW and have mostly been looking to funnel funds to that set with the purpose of farming higher MP effectively (meaning SNS build for max effective dps). Where I'm at now I can farm any MP with CMWW, though survival might be a problem on MP10 with SNS. I can use EA for MP10 Ubers if I needed, but otherwise I mostly stick with MP7 or so for efficiency. However, I don't run Ubers much so I decided to go with the high DPS, lower APS route to gearing my CMWW. I previously has a 110k DPS 2.73 APS set with 5k armor and 800 resists but I'm pretty sure I do more effective dps with my current gear set, and the overall costs of the sets are about the same.
    My EHP and DPS Spreadsheet, mostly useful for wizards.
    My wizard, mostly useful for killing demons and collecting loot.
    Wizard CM DPS Simulator, written in Matlab, release version 1.01
    Comprehensive CMWW Guide, including gear and build suggestions, plus Uber strats
    Arcane Mines Guide, detailed guide for the highest dps wizard build, including vids
  • #27
    For approximately 100M, you can pick up a Blackthorne's Duncraig Cross with high int (120ish), 8+ IAS and 8+ CC. It always come with about 400 LOH, and great life%. At the same time, you can pick up Blackthorne's Jousting Mail with 150 int, 150 vit, high armor for a mere 10-20M, and that also comes with around 400 LOH and great life% (and on top of that, you get the BT 2-set 100 vitality bonus).

    So let's say you overpay a little and spend 150M on those two pieces. That will leave you with 450M, which is more than enough to pick up a decent APoC Chant's Force (I'd say 200-250M should net you a decent one already). So with 200M left over, you can sell off your current Zuni Pox and grab one with IAS+CC instead. Then you can pick up a different rare ring since you no longer need the LOH from there (you should have around 700-800 LOH from the BT set alone).

    Your EHP will shoot through the roof with those upgrades, which is far more important for CM/WW.
    Blizzard Entertainment - Diablo III Community MVP
  • #28
    Thanks you all, loving the input!

    @Jaetch What stats should I aim for with the Chant's Force? 250 mil seems a bit high for the ones I have been looking for.
  • #29
    Quote from Ilyustar

    Thanks you all, loving the input!

    @Jaetch What stats should I aim for with the Chant's Force? 250 mil seems a bit high for the ones I have been looking for.


    I personally recently sold one with about 230 average damage, 8 ias, 10 cc, about 180 int, with 8 APoC for 250M. I originally priced it around 300M, but settled for 250M after it went a couple of days without movement. You should be able to get a similar one for that pricetag. You can settle with less crit chance, but according to d3up, you only run 42% and you'll want to maximize it.

    Edit: Actually, another way you can go about upgrading is pick up a IAS+CC Natalya's Reflection and combine it with a pair of int Natalya's Footprints for the 2-piece set 7% CC. Unfortunately, I don't know the prices for Nat's since I've almost never looked at them other than to sell ones I loot.
    Blizzard Entertainment - Diablo III Community MVP
  • #30
    I just looked into prices for Nat's. It's below a million for no CC on the ring, starts at ~50m for 3 CC, and then goes up to 100m for 5 CC. Everything beyond is insane (high CC + average damage or even high int is not available for less than half a billion). I guess if you can grab one with reasonable stats and low CC that pushes your DPS, it's not a bad choice, considering that this gives you an incredible amount of CC - as stated above. As soon as I have some money I might do the same ;-)
  • #31
    - get some ice climbers for lots of int and EHP (quite cheap nowadays)
    - get blackthorns pants with 70+ all res (i got mine for 60m)
    - get chant off hand (pricey to have apoc AND gigh avg dmg though)
    - high vit and all res/armor tal rasha chest
    - when looking for rings, try find some with ias, cc and loh
    - gloves: as much int, ias and cc as possible. You could get cdmg, but I went for all res

    take a look at my profile for some inspiration
  • #32
    So here's my plan (not going to rush it / still WIP):

    Natalyas Boots - 85+ Vit, 85+ Int - 25-50mil
    Natalyas Ring - 3% Crit or more, Int + AvgDmg - 100mil

    Blackthorns Legs - 400+ loh, 160 int, 160 vit, 280+ armor - 20mil
    Blackthorns Amulet - 500+ loh, 130 int, 8% IAS, 8.5% Crit - 80mil

    Chant's Force - 200-250mil

    Those are the current prices with the avg-stats (checked EU-ah).

    If I manage to buy this, I'll hopefully will end up with 100mil left.
    I'll then think about getting a rare ring with CM Stats + Tal Chest with more EHP or a Mempo with Crit.

    Tell me what you think about it.
  • #33
    Quote from Ilyustar
    Natalyas Boots - 85+ Vit, 85+ Int - 25-50mil
    Natalyas Ring - 3% Crit or more, Int + AvgDmg - 100mil

    Blackthorns Legs - 400+ loh, 160 int, 160 vit, 280+ armor - 20mil
    Blackthorns Amulet - 500+ loh, 130 int, 8% IAS, 8.5% Crit - 80mil

    Chant's Force - 200-250mil


    With your 1.71 APS Chantodo's Will, you'll need more than +8% IAS from your Chantodo's Force to hit the 2.73 APS breakpoint. In fact, you'll need at least 60% IAS to hit 2.73 and 76% IAS to hit 3.001. In order to do this, you'll need IAS on your Nat's Reflection to bring your total from 56% (with Chant's Force) to, let's say, 62% with a 6% IAS Nat's Reflection. At 62%, if you can grab BT ammy for 9%, you'll be at 63%, then find a rare ring with 8% to hit 71%, then perhaps upgrade your gloves from its measly 5% to something in lines of 8-9%. With any spare gold, you can get a little greedier and any 8% IAS items you have can be replaced with 9%.

    But put all that in the bottom of your to-do list. For now, make sure you get a Nat's Reflection with IAS and CC. You can forgo the average damage on the ring, or else even with a 8-9% Chant's Force, you won't reach the 2.73 breakpoint.

    If you want to hit the 3.01 APS breakpoint at some point in the future, you will have to try and get a Chant's Will with more than 1.71 APS. When I played with CM, I made sure the wand I got had +0.25 APS just to make reaching breakpoints so much easier.
    Blizzard Entertainment - Diablo III Community MVP
  • #34
    Sounds good to me. You can look at my set for some ideas if you'd like. I switch to Chantodo's set ( 1.65 socket in weapon, apoc in off hand) and blackthrone's ammy with intel/crit for my CMWW set up. I hit 3 aps with stretch time with my set up.

    Agree with the above, make sure you get 9ias on that nat's ring. You may need the 9 later depending on what breakpoint you decide to shoot for.

    Alternatively, a good boot (iceclimbers or zuni's boots)+ good trifecta ring will give you more damage than the nat's set up if you dont mind losing a little crit. I had that nat set up before but switched. And yes, even without a black weapon in my CMWW set up, my current set up still gives more dps than my previous nat's set up which is similar to what you have planned.
  • #35
    Quote from Jaetch

    Quote from Ilyustar
    Natalyas Boots - 85+ Vit, 85+ Int - 25-50mil
    Natalyas Ring - 3% Crit or more, Int + AvgDmg - 100mil

    Blackthorns Legs - 400+ loh, 160 int, 160 vit, 280+ armor - 20mil
    Blackthorns Amulet - 500+ loh, 130 int, 8% IAS, 8.5% Crit - 80mil

    Chant's Force - 200-250mil


    With your 1.71 APS Chantodo's Will, you'll need more than +8% IAS from your Chantodo's Force to hit the 2.73 APS breakpoint. In fact, you'll need at least 60% IAS to hit 2.73 and 76% IAS to hit 3.001. In order to do this, you'll need IAS on your Nat's Reflection to bring your total from 56% (with Chant's Force) to, let's say, 62% with a 6% IAS Nat's Reflection. At 62%, if you can grab BT ammy for 9%, you'll be at 63%, then find a rare ring with 8% to hit 71%, then perhaps upgrade your gloves from its measly 5% to something in lines of 8-9%. With any spare gold, you can get a little greedier and any 8% IAS items you have can be replaced with 9%.

    But put all that in the bottom of your to-do list. For now, make sure you get a Nat's Reflection with IAS and CC. You can forgo the average damage on the ring, or else even with a 8-9% Chant's Force, you won't reach the 2.73 breakpoint.

    If you want to hit the 3.01 APS breakpoint at some point in the future, you will have to try and get a Chant's Will with more than 1.71 APS. When I played with CM, I made sure the wand I got had +0.25 APS just to make reaching breakpoints so much easier.


    Nat's Reflection comes with 8-9% IAS standard doenst it? (thats why I didnt mention it)

    I'm really scared to spend the money lol, I'll buy the Chantodos first and see what price I can snipe then Ill report back!

    Thanks again :)
  • #36
    Looks good. If you decide to stick with a 3% Nat ring I wouldn't spend more than 60, 70m on it and rather save some more money in the end to get a Tal chest with allres (if you want EHP) or a Mempo with CC (which is just an awesome high-end item that won't be replaced too soon by anything else).

    @Jaetch and RasAlgethi24: I think the Nat ring always comes with IAS ;-) So he'll be fine.
  • #37
    ^Yeah what I meant was to shoot for the 9 if possible instead of 8. Like in my case, I need 9s in all pieces to hit a break point with stretch time so I dont have to use another piece with IAS
  • #38
    Gosh I feel silly. This is why I quit playing my DH.
    Blizzard Entertainment - Diablo III Community MVP
  • #39
    Quote from Jaetch


    With your 1.71 APS Chantodo's Will, you'll need more than +8% IAS from your Chantodo's Force to hit the 2.73 APS breakpoint.


    According to the d3up link posted, the wand is 1.75 APS which means only 56% IAS is needed for 2.73 APS, so the chanto should work if current IAS is 48%. Needs 72% for 3.0 breakpoint.
    My EHP and DPS Spreadsheet, mostly useful for wizards.
    My wizard, mostly useful for killing demons and collecting loot.
    Wizard CM DPS Simulator, written in Matlab, release version 1.01
    Comprehensive CMWW Guide, including gear and build suggestions, plus Uber strats
    Arcane Mines Guide, detailed guide for the highest dps wizard build, including vids
  • #40
    Quote from Loroese

    Quote from Jaetch

    With your 1.71 APS Chantodo's Will, you'll need more than +8% IAS from your Chantodo's Force to hit the 2.73 APS breakpoint.


    According to the d3up link posted, the wand is 1.75 APS which means only 56% IAS is needed for 2.73 APS, so the chanto should work if current IAS is 48%. Needs 72% for 3.0 breakpoint.


    Well, I am obviously blind today.

    But feel free to get overkill IAS so you can prepare to get within striking distance of the the elusive 3+ APS breakpoint!
    Blizzard Entertainment - Diablo III Community MVP
  • To post a comment, please or register a new account.
Posts Quoted:
Reply
Clear All Quotes