Upgrading, whats first?

  • #1
    Hello guys,

    I just dinged on my wiz and got some stuff from mates, now i'm kinda lost were to start upgrading.

    This is my profile:
    http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Tryana-2808/hero/8709106

    Should i look for a weapon with socket first? More LoH/HP/Resists?

    I can do MP5 with ease, and managed to kill packs in mp8-9 so far.

    Thanks alot in advance, dont want to blow money on things that aint upgrades!
  • #2
    I see that you're running CMWW spec, so my comments are just regarding this build:

    You want to hit the next break point in terms of attack speed, which is 2.51 (you're at 2.41 now). You would just need 6% more IAS for that, easy to get on one of your rings. Whatever you do, try to get above 2.51 APS and not lower than that, it'll greatly enhance your CMWW performance. You have three items with APoC, two are sufficient; you could look into a black weapon instead of the Chanto weapon and then get a new source (Triumvirate with APoc). Reason being that your Chanto set is really sub-par: the weapon offers no great affix, only it's DPS is fine, and the offhand is really poor, extremely low damage and 7 APoC is a bit too low, try to get 8-9 at the very least. And Chanto sets seem to be incredibly stupidly expensive ever since the new 50mil CMWW guide came out last week, every single Chanto item I looked at yesterday was insanely overpriced. But if you buy a black weapon, make sure that you hit the 2.51 APS (i.e., by getting an IAS dagger or just getting another ring with IAS).

    After taking care of that, you should get more EHP; aim for 4000-4500 armor and 600+ allres, both of these stats are fairly low. Diamond Skin greatly benefits from armor/allres EHP and not so much from life, therefore don't get any more life, but try to up allres/armor. You could, for instance, try to get some of these stats on your rings as well, or on your bracers (could even craft the new bracers) and get the 9 IAS on your rings instead.

    For more input on the CMWW basics and mechanics and breakpoints and everything read the CMWW guide, for some ideas on which items you could buy take a look at the wizard gear guide.
  • #3
    Awesome thanks, i saw that guide yesterday, will look through it :)

    If i get a new source, would that mean i need both rings with IAS if i get a black weapon?
  • #4
    It depends what source you get - if you buy a Triumvirate/Oculus you would need the additional IAS on your rings, yes. And I have to admit that a black weapon with ~1.6 APS or more might also not be that cheap. I'd just look for some possible combinations (full Chanto set, black weapon, other offhand) and play around (use a spreadsheet like Loroese's or a website like d3up.com or d3rawr.com). Play around and see what's the best you can get for your money.

    I was usually advising people to buy Chanto's, but it seems that ever since the 50m guide appeared a couple of days ago people have gone crazy. I tried to follow up on the prices and it seems that this 50m gear will now cost you about 100m, everyone just got crazy and bought the exact items from the guide and people are putting them up for more money because they realize a higher demand. You might be lucky by sniping a decent Chanto set, but I feel it's extremely overpriced by now.
  • #5
    Ok so i have a triumvirate and a 85x ish dps Echoing fury with socket and 85% crit dmg, would it be worth switching those those (think apoc is 8 ish on trvium) and then look for 2 rings with IAS?

    Or will it be better to look for a IAS dagger instead of the fury?
  • #6
    Also thanks for the swift replies, am enjoying the spec alot i gotta say, have about 4-500 mil to spend on upgrades so ill go ona spree when i get home!
  • #7
    85x DPS sounds a bit low. And... does the EF have IAS? Otherwise it'll be at around 1.42-1.45 APS and you would need way too much IAS on your gear, more than you can afford (e.g, with an 1.43 EF you need 73% IAS on gear to reach 2.51 APS).
  • #8
    Okay, scrapping the EF then. guess im hunting for a IAS dagger/wand with crit dmg and socket in the 1K dps range?

    Also, regarding the APOC, If i lost it from my weapon, i would need to use atleast a wizard hat right? (Together with apoc source ofcourse)
  • #9
    Yeah, look out for such weapons like you said. Take your time, check out the AH for some time, because the market is just behaving like crazy. I've been looking for a new CMWW weapon for quite some time now, in a similar range, and I don't feel like spending my money *right now*.

    If you go for IAS sword/dagger and not a wand (which is preferable because of the higher APS), you need to stick to Storm Crow, yes. Which is not a bad thing; Storm Crow has crit, APoC, and LoH, three things you won't see on a Mempo (well, crit can show up, but only if you spend a fortune).

    I'd say at this point wait for Loroese's feedback as well before making a decision, he's the master of CMWW around here ;-)
  • #10
    Okay thanks alot mate, really appriciate it!
    Gonna look for some AS on rings first then, and some more armor/resists

    Thanks again!
  • #11
    If you want to make a good CM which means a good freeze - you pretty much have to go Chanto's wand or 1.66 aps dagger. The dagger means you need a stormcrow helm for APOC, which doesn't have attack speed so you have make it up somewhere else.

    Personally I'd go with a Chantodo's set. Read Loroese's CMWW guide. Everything is there.
  • #12
    Bagstone said most of what I would have said. I only have a couple comments.

    First, swords and wands have the same base APS, so I'm not sure why you singled out swords over wands. Both are 1.4 base, daggers are 1.5 base.

    Second, I don't recommend a sword or wand for CMWW because even with IAS the max APS is 1.554 which means you need 61% IAS to reach 2.5 APS breakpoint. 7 IAS pieces means chest, belt, gloves, amulet, and 2x rings isn't enough, so you need either OH, helm, or bracers with IAS to reach 2.5. OH means you might as well be using a chanto MH for the set bonus, helm means you need APoC weapon which eliminates swords, and bracers just means lower EHP since rare bracers with high EHP are cheap compared to similar Prowlers. If i'm going to be stacking over 60% IAS on gear, I'd want to reach 2.73 APS, so I'd just go with a Chanto in that case.

    Aside from that, replacing the weapon with a non-chanto would also mean you should replace the OH, which means even more IAS would be needed to reach the next breakpoint. Either way I'd replace the OH. If you keep the Chanto 2pc, you can drop the APoC on the OH and get a far higher damage one to raise dps. You can even get higher Int and some vit for extra EHP, or to replace the vit on your weapon that you'll lose if you change that. If you keep with the Chanto, you can try upgrading to a socketed version, or just one with CD if the cost is an issue. Alternatively you can try finding one with IAS, which should bump you up to 2.5 APS, and would make it easy to reach 2.73 APS. The only issue with that is the lack of CD hurts your dps a bit, but it does free up some options on other pieces.

    Otherwise, if you want to dump your chanto combo, the black dagger+Triumvirate combo is pretty good for dps. Your issue with that would be that you need 51% IAS from gear with a max IAS dagger to reach 2.5 APS which means you'd have to replace both rings with max IAS versions and replace one of your chest, belt, amulet, or bracers with a similar version but with 9% IAS. If you want to go this route look for the dagger first. Don't go below 9% IAS though since you'd need 55% IAS to reach 2.5 which means an extra IAS piece. For each IAS below 11% you get on the dagger you'll have to upgrade one extra piece from your chest, belt, amulet, and bracers to reach 2.5 APS. I'm guessing you'll want to keep your current amulet and upgrade the others if needed.

    As far as your other stats, your LoH is fine, though if you have to replace your rings you'll end up losing that Loh so you either want to get LoH on one of the rings or switch your pants to blackthorns. Otherwise, 600-1000 LoH is about all you need. With lower LoH you can still get by, especially at lower MP, but you might have to move out of aoe things more often. Also, don't neglect Crit when you're swapping pieces around and/or picking up new rings. The higher the crit you have the better, while 45-50% unbuffed is sufficient for solo farming at a reasonable efficiency.

    Finally, drop energy armor for farming runs and swap to Shocking Aspect. If you have survivability issues lower the MP until you don't, but if you have to lower it too much then go back to EA until you get a bit more armor and resists. You can also swap diamond shards for crystal shell if you're having survival issues with SA, but SA is insane for effective dps as a CMWW wizard.

    So in short, you have a few options to decide on, depending on your budget and personal preference. Either way I recommend replacing the OH and weapon, but what you replace them with will impact what and how many other pieces you have to swap out.
    Wizard DPS and EHP Spreadsheet, mostly useful for wizards.
    Crusader DPS and EHP Spreadsheet, meant for Crusaders
    My Wizard
  • #13
    So i made a few purchases, hit the 2.73 breakpoint

    http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Tryana-2808/hero/8709106

    DPS went up quite a bit, i got a bit more crit on gear, more AS on rings, got my resists up, bought blackthorne's pants.

    Feel alot stronger now i gotta say
  • #14
    Quote from Tryana

    So i made a few purchases, hit the 2.73 breakpoint

    http://eu.battle.net...08/hero/8709106

    DPS went up quite a bit, i got a bit more crit on gear, more AS on rings, got my resists up, bought blackthorne's pants.

    Feel alot stronger now i gotta say


    Looks pretty good. I'd drop unleashed for Chain Reaction (or Time Bomb for Ubers). You shouldn't need the AP reduction with that APS and APoC. Also, it looks like you're only at 2.73 with chantress, which is fine, but keep in mind if she dies you lose the APS buff until she gets back up. Also for groups that means you're below 2.73. You'd need 66% IAS on gear with your 1.65 wand to be at the 2.73 breakpoint. Your profile says 64%.
    Wizard DPS and EHP Spreadsheet, mostly useful for wizards.
    Crusader DPS and EHP Spreadsheet, meant for Crusaders
    My Wizard
  • #15
    Yeah i saw that, got another ring with 9 IAS so im at breakpoint without follower too,
    Thanks for the great tips, im enjoying my wiz alot :D

    Thanks again and cya arround!
  • #16
    Last question btw, would it be worth getting an IAS Chanto so i could (maybe) hit the 3.001 breakpoint?
    Or is that just for mp10?
  • #17
    3.001 leads to insane super safe stunlock. The question is less about MP, but more about what you're doing. For MP10 uber fights I think it's worth it - your mates can go full DPS then and you have a super tight stunlock. Ghom won't even fart once, no clouds. For key runs it might be worthwhile, because I feel all three keywardens are kind of ugly to keep stunlocked if they're on their own. For farming (e.g., running around through hordes of monsters) it's not worth it, because on the way to 3.001 you'll certainly lose some DPS elsewhere that you have to sacrifice. Loroese had a nice chart about this a while ago.
  • #18
    Ah ill look for a wand for ubers then, im mostly running ubers with a DH mate, and he has a tendency to get himself killed, so supersafe stunlock does sound good.

    Any idea where i could find this chart?
  • #19
    I think it was the one in this post.
  • #20
    You can also try using Steve's CMWW DPS simulator to check out the differences in APS. It's a little different from my simulator but has the advantage of being a web based simulator instead of MATLAB based, so it's a bit easier to use. It just doesn't work with IE.
    Wizard DPS and EHP Spreadsheet, mostly useful for wizards.
    Crusader DPS and EHP Spreadsheet, meant for Crusaders
    My Wizard
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