Blizzard didn't test the Witch Doctor!... or did they?

  • #41
    For those who dont believe. Roll a barb or wizard. You can really notice that they've put far more effort in creating those two classes. I hate to go back to my WD now. He really cant live up to the fun I have playing those two classes. And thats not a matter of playstyle, because I love casters and summoner classes in most games. But the WD flat out sucks after 30 levels.
  • #42
    Worth mentioning completly dumb vampiric mechanics when mobs are healing from retarded pets/followers standing in AOE. No matter how they buff vitality scaling for pets if they won't somehow tweak interaction between vampiric affix, aoe and pets WD's with summoning heavy build won't be able to take them down. I saw lots of retarded things in D3, but vampiric leaching 30-60% hps from a single hit on summon or being virtually immune to dmg whille summons are standing in plague/desecration is the epithome of retardedness.

    And trust me playing monk and barb in A3 inferno i know lots about retarded mechanics.
  • #43
    Quote from GIVEMEANAME

    I got mine to 32 other day, and i hate it;

    It doesnt fit imo, and the mechanics of it are fun with the pets - but it doesnt seem to work at all

    my opinion though


    idk heres the vision quest build i used through nightmare worked wonders. Switched to bears when i got into hell

    http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/witch-doctor#agUdkT!UVW!abaZZZ

    gotta get to 37 to use phantasm but after that it worked wonders for me found it somwhere on these forums.

    Spirit Walk: I used jaunt rune for the extra second to get in and out to cast my SS, but my dps was high, if you're having mana
    troubles obviously switch jaunt for honored guest, but I didnt run into any problems

    Gargantuan: Feel free to switch this out for FA or BBV my giant stayed up enough in nightmare well enough, and since you'll be
    refreshing Garg on CD it refreshes Restless Giant obviously.
  • #44
    Quote from Afflicted.

    Quote from GIVEMEANAME

    I got mine to 32 other day, and i hate it;

    It doesnt fit imo, and the mechanics of it are fun with the pets - but it doesnt seem to work at all

    my opinion though


    idk heres the vision quest build i used through nightmare worked wonders. Switched to bears when i got into hell

    http://us.battle.net...UdkT!UVW!abaZZZ

    gotta get to 37 to use phantasm but after that it worked wonders for me found it somwhere on these forums.

    Spirit Walk: I used jaunt rune for the extra second to get in and out to cast my SS, but my dps was high, if you're having mana
    troubles obviously switch jaunt for honored guest, but I didnt run into any problems

    Gargantuan: Feel free to switch this out for FA or BBV my giant stayed up enough in nightmare well enough, and since you'll be
    refreshing Garg on CD it refreshes Restless Giant obviously.


    Edit: just so you know I read on the official d3 forums that blizzard is going to fix pets they're just deciding on how to go about it.

    Edit #2: woops made a second post :hehe:
  • #45
    Quote from Gallows

    For those who dont believe. Roll a barb or wizard. You can really notice that they've put far more effort in creating those two classes. I hate to go back to my WD now. He really cant live up to the fun I have playing those two classes. And thats not a matter of playstyle, because I love casters and summoner classes in most games. But the WD flat out sucks after 30 levels.


    Have to agree, it's not that WD is a bad concept - it's really cool and have lots of flashy effects, but... you aren't seeing this cool and flashy effects starting from inferno difficulty - summons going of the bars, half passives are outright bad (why introduce non-factor dmg reduction passives when you're oneshoted through them anyway), many skills are short ranged and are designed for use by tanky caster (exept WD isn't tanky at all), primary attacks are useless all but one (that you've been spaming from lvl 6 probably). Anyway after playing monk/barb (who've tought time in A3 inferno on their own), playing gf's WD was outright dull and most fun thing for me was getting few fetishes from passive proc.

    And worst part is that class balance patch wasn't announced yet, so WD's may've a fun time of chaining 2 min cds for another month or more.
  • #46
    Quote from Nyaldee

    Quote from Gallows

    For those who dont believe. Roll a barb or wizard. You can really notice that they've put far more effort in creating those two classes. I hate to go back to my WD now. He really cant live up to the fun I have playing those two classes. And thats not a matter of playstyle, because I love casters and summoner classes in most games. But the WD flat out sucks after 30 levels.


    Have to agree, it's not that WD is a bad concept - it's really cool and have lots of flashy effects, but... you aren't seeing this cool and flashy effects starting from inferno difficulty - summons going of the bars, half passives are outright bad (why introduce non-factor dmg reduction passives when you're oneshoted through them anyway), many skills are short ranged and are designed for use by tanky caster (exept WD isn't tanky at all), primary attacks are useless all but one (that you've been spaming from lvl 6 probably). Anyway after playing monk/barb (who've tought time in A3 inferno on their own), playing gf's WD was outright dull and most fun thing for me was getting few fetishes from passive proc.

    And worst part is that class balance patch wasn't announced yet, so WD's may've a fun time of chaining 2 min cds for another month or more.


    I really could give two shits about waiitng on that I want PVP!! Diablo gets a little boring without PvP between farms to break up the motonousness of farming.

    OT: Have there been any updates on when well see a pvp patch, I know before launch they were saying 4-5 months
  • #47
    All of you are judging WDs from a personal point of view rather than from a game design pov.

    Monk: Spirit spenders (damage attacks) sucks, the only spirit spender you use is mantra and then you use serenity and a few others once every 1-5min

    Barb: All fury spenders suck, 95% of all barbs use no fury spender at all, the remaining 5% use Seismic Slam and/or Battle Rage.

    Wizard: Hydra + Blizzard is a must, most people also use force armor as it can save you from death. A lot of Wizards (myself included) dont even use a spamable attack as you can use Magic weapon instead and now your blizzard and hydra will do an additional 10k dps.

    Dont play DH so I cant comment on that.


    When it comes to passives, Wizard, WD and DH all has a lot of passives that are viable while Monk and Barb must pick 3 defensive ones (they both have about 5 defensive passives).
    In hardcore, WDs are the best class because they have a damage reduction passive, vessel and room for 1 of their personal choice. They can never get 1 shot unlike all the other classes (monk can pick a passive that does the same however there are 3 passives that are better).

    When it comes to gearing theres two classes that have more choice than the rest and those two are Wizards and Witch Docters who both get some sort of extra damage reduction from skills. Barbs and monks have to go defensive otherwise they die (yes the 2h barbs still have like 800 res). DH have to go offensive to kill their enemies before they get killed. Wizards have force armor which can bring a 1 shot down to 3 shot (this requires some armor and res) and they can go pure glass cannon like DH. WD have 20% dmg reduction and vessel which again lets them gear defensively or go the glass cannon route.

    I think you need to stop whining about your "broken class", monks and especially barbs are a lot more broken but to be completely honest its Inferno that is broken and not really the classes.
  • #48
    I'd personally like the possibility of doing a "niche" tanky caster build. The WD has so many amazing close range abilities, but I doubt I'll ever be able to play him as something alike ( in inferno)

    A sacrifice-centered build actually seems pretty awesome too, but currently doesn't really work since the pets get oneshot and you have a hard time positioning them properly. (Or maybe I just didn't test it good enough?)

    Splinters + Spirit walk + Spirit Vessel is basically a must for almost every WD at A3/4 and even the AoE slow and Wall are almost too good to give up.

    Overall there are so many awesome abilities, but they're either not worth it because of damage or mana cost.

    Why does the mana cost increase but our regen doesn't? Giving us another 40 mana reg once we reach level 60 would atleast allow mana-intense build without a vision quest build by stacking more item with mana reg.

    As far as I know you can get +30 mreg (dagger + mojo + mask) and another 10 by reaching 1k mana + Spiritual attunement.
    That's 60 overall mana reg if you actually stack it. (I bet I miss something though), most mana-demanding abilities require about 120 to 150, though. Means you could cast one Dire bat every 2 seconds... if you don't do anything inbetween.

    The fact that I go OOM on elite groups (not using spiritual attunement) by simply using wall + aoe slow + splinters is actually quite sad.

    Another fix could be to actually allow our primary abilities to return some mana, without using shitty glyphs.

    The only thing I don't understand is, that mana is supposed to be a slow-regenerating, large pool - but it depletes faster than a Wizard's Arcane power and regenerates half as slow... if you stack MReg.

    Edit: Talking as someone who has beaten Inferno mode on the WD. (Yet still farming items)
  • #49
    Quote from Draesh

    WD have 20% dmg reduction and vessel which again lets them gear defensively or go the glass cannon route.


    I think you need to stop talking like you know about the WD because you don't.

    You really think a 20% DR passive will allow us to gear defensively? We still get 1-2 shot which is already worse than a wizard who gears defensively and uses force armor. Stop acting like WDs are so much better than your wizard.

    DH and WD are the classes that have the least reason to gear defensively currently. The only reason for me to get more HP on my WD currently is to help with reflects damage mobs.
  • #50
    Quote from Draesh

    I think you need to stop whining about your "broken class", monks and especially barbs are a lot more broken but to be completely honest its Inferno that is broken and not really the classes.


    Witch Doctor is a broken class.

    Skills leave almost no choice? Yes.
    Mana doesn't work at all unless VQ? Yes.
    Underpowered while using the best abilities? No.

    Broken /= Underpowered.
  • #51
    Quote from Draesh
    All of you are judging WDs from a personal point of view rather than from a game design pov.

    <rant>

    This is the perfect example for apples and oranges. I just can't simply say "Yeah so spirit walk has a cooldown thus it's a worse smoke screen and grasp has a cooldown as well thus it's a worse caltrops. Conclusion? WD are the worse demonhunters..." without looking at ALL options. DH have no wall no garg no hex (!!!). Hex alone is helping me keeping 1 out of 3-5 elites busy for 75% of a fight.

    On monks:
    You can also use cyclone strike instead of spamming mantra, giving you nice burst, an anti ranged spell and the same bonus as spamming your mantra (=more dodge). Using the other abilites every 1-5 minutes sounds highly exaggerated, i basically use all of them on cooldown on challenging packs.

    On barbs:
    Sadly you got a point there, without the crit gear you can't play eg a spear throwing barb. For the later acts you're more or less forced to join the tanking train with a small skill set variations (either endurance or burst).

    On wizards:
    There's always a FOTM alias cookie cutter build but Wizard have a lot of viable options and aren't limited to blizzard + hydra even on the later acts.

    Passives:
    DH: you can basically choose between damage A, damage B, damage C and damage D. Can't see how this is interesting.
    Of course melee tend to use defensive passives, they lack on this side. An offensive passive won't help them that much if they just keep dying. When their gear improves (or the need to reach enrage timers) they'll start swapping around.

    In hardcore melees (with gear) are the best class because they're stable and got some leech/hitpoints recovery. Except for nightmarish's randomness there's no situation you can't handle with the right skillset. A 20% reduction won't make or break anything for the WD, it's a question of kiting. All three ranged classes have viable kite builds but DH lack on the resource side (once disc is empty x2 they're lost) while wizard and wd can keep up with their normal skillset almost forever if properly geared.

    Honestly using vessel (or monk equivalent) in hardcore is just wrong imho, you're wasting a passive slot for a rather small chance to survive instead of having another passive active 100% of the time and helping you don't even reach that point.
  • #52
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTjeg9UNYB8
    If the games in beta then WDs are in pre-alpha.
  • #53
    Quote from Ruppgu

    You really think a 20% DR passive will allow us to gear defensively? We still get 1-2 shot which is already worse than a wizard who gears defensively and uses force armor. Stop acting like WDs are so much better than your wizard.


    20% allows you to die from 3 instead of 2 spears from spearman. And not to die with one-shot from moloks/shamans. We don't care about melee.

    wizard has to take passive+diamond skin+armor to be better

    Quote from Ruppgu
    DH and WD are the classes that have the least reason to gear defensively currently. The only reason for me to get more HP on my WD currently is to help with reflects damage mobs.


    HP with no mitigation? pffff...
    1) it's very hard to recover it
    2) it's not effective
    I aim for resists+armor+jungle fort. and ~25k hp. And I feel fine. Main goal is that i can recover my hp fast. 13k from pot, 1800 from hex, sometimes i take harvest (10k+ from 5 targets).

    Reflect problems? Buy gear with at least +500 hp from hit. Or just buy an alternative weapon +hp and socket for such situation. It is not a problem at all.
  • #54
    Yes pets don't do anything in inferno. However, saying that the witch doctor went untested is just stupid. Inferno is supposed to be really freaking hard. They said it hundreds of time before the game was released. Now that a handful of people have finished inferno, everybody thinks they should be able to also. Grow up and accept the fact that you're just going to have to get better at the game.

    I'm currently in Act 2 inferno with 25k health and 39k dps unbuffed. I don't use dogs or gargantuan anymore, although I did leading up to inferno. And I realize that I still need to gear up more and I'm fine with that. Granted, I can't wait for the act 2 balance, but that's for the whole game, not just hte WD. Blizzard admitted the dmg gets out of control and they're fixing it because everyone is whining about how difficult the game is. EVEN THOUGH THEY SAID IT WOULD BE HARD.
  • #55
    I'm at the end of Act 3 Inferno with my WD and I can say it feels very awkward with the skills we have.
  • #56
    Quote from Halfdead14

    I'm at the end of Act 3 Inferno with my WD and I can say it feels very awkward with the skills we have.


    What do you mean by awkward? I'm not trying to troll or be a dick, I am genuinely interested.
  • #57
    Our mana pool scales up as we level. However, our mana costs scale up FASTER, meaning that our mana pool REALLY scales DOWN as we level.


    This is made worse because our mana regeneration doesn't scale up at all. So you deplete your mana just as fast, if not faster, but it takes longer to regenerate the higher level you are.


    WDs are the only class that get measurably WORSE every time they level up. WTF Blizzard?


    And of course our heals don't scale with our vitality. And our mana recovery skills don't scale up with our mana pool. And the further we get into the game, the more neutered our CCs become, as they barely slow elites. And our pets die to stiff breezes.


    And every non-primary can be cast only four to six times before completely draining our mana. It takes forty seconds of nothing to regenerate our mana. If we need to use a primary or crowd control during this time, it will not regenerate till we stop.


    We get FIVE casts and then FORTY SECONDS of nothing. How is that fun?


    Horrible horrible horrible design.
  • #58
    Quote from Potato0fD00m

    Quote from Halfdead14

    I'm at the end of Act 3 Inferno with my WD and I can say it feels very awkward with the skills we have.


    What do you mean by awkward? I'm not trying to troll or be a dick, I am genuinely interested.

    We were supposed to be melee/mid-range summoner caster, yet we are a kite for your life/5 CC spells/dart spaming glass cannon.
    Like the video above.
  • #59
    I don't understand what are you complaining about. I found my WD not boring at all. And tbh, i got softcore Barbarian in A3 inferno and hardcore WD in a1 inferno - both class are entertaining, but WD is simply less boring than Shield Sword and Board tank (don't tell me about anything else than S&B barbarian @ inferno a2-3 - there is no other option, well ok, there is but you have to buy gold and spend over 100mil to get those other options).

    And someone said that WD got worse damage than DW.. I got 10k dps and with right set of skills i can kill those tiny little elites (not the big one who are devastated by zombie bears) in blink of eye. Realy, like 3-5seconds of dpsing and they are done.

    Perhaps you should try to find out new ways of playing WD instead of copying other people builds? I found Poison Darts, Bats, Fetish Army one of the most useless skills.
  • #60
    I'm a4 solo inferno WD and it's pretty much kite kite kite. I don't see any viable options other than poison darts + tons of cc. Bears? Good luck in a3/a4 mobs. I picked WD because I thought it would resemble the play style of necro, but I was wrong. This is a wannabe DH with just single target attacks. So unless you actually made it this far solo without using darts, you probably shouldn't put it down lol

    Blizzard screwed this one up. Playing either DH or Monk until they patch this.
  • To post a comment, please or register a new account.
Posts Quoted:
Reply
Clear All Quotes