Support pull monk - 116% increased damage taken for your entire party! Up to T6 - Blazyb

  • #1
    This is a build i'v e been experimenting and refining to become a very good group build for the popular pull monk build.
    This build works great for new monks with "bad" gear or low damage that wanna be in higher torments but still contribute a lot. It's really cheap to gear, you don't have to be picky with x% to element, or that every pieces NEEDS to have crit/dmg/as etc. It's so easy to gear that most of my gear I can reroll the secondary stat for lightning res (one with all stacked even better).
    It took me 2-3 days to get my monk T5-6 ready from scratch, how many builds/classes can do that?

    edit: new video, rifting T4 with a random pug. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-UcO6gc1vQ <- old vid, T6 rift vids coming soon.

    Up to 120% damagen taken for your entire party? HOW?!?!

    Everyone i've been partying with has been surprised with the amount of increased damage taken I have. To break it up for your
    Strongarm bracers 30%, mantra of conviction 26% (mantra of healing + guiding light 30%), inner sanctuary, 30%, crippling wave 10%, exploding palm 20%
    = 30+30+30+10+20 = 120% increased damage taken. Now this may not be 100% accurate, I havn't tested this throughly, some modifiers might not stack like that etc, but still it's still A LOT

    Character profile:http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/blazyb-2626/hero/38243223
    Rough stats selfbuffed: ~300k damage, ~30M-40M toughness, 18% phys dmg, 90% elite dmg. Runs up to T6

    Gearing
    Toughness > Spirit regen (cost reduction, attack speed, etc) > dmg
    Gearing this build is really easy and cheap, basically all you want is as high tougness as possible. Also you want to keep your spirit up to spam your abilities, so attack speed is a nice stat coupled with reduced cost. If you are having no trouble in surviving go for more damage.
    My monk is geared very quickly with a couple crafted set pieces. You could potentially grab a 3set blackthorne, 3 set aughild and 3 set asheras. All these set gives huge toughness against elite packs, making T6 a joke. if you don't have access to the fist that buffs your exploding palm i'd go with the crafted Hallowed protectors set. (Claw+axe)

    For this particular build crit/dmg is pretty much a wasted stat. All your dmg is coming from buffing your teammates and exploding mobs with exploding palm. If you wanna get more dmg stack phys %, elite dmg %.
    A pair of strongarm bracers is really nice in this build, because using cyclone strike makes every monster affected suffer the 20-30% increased damage taken.

    And now, talking about the skill setup:http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/monk#WdfRVk!bXUc!cYZcaY
    Now, there are some variety in this build, but the baseline is pretty much set. It all depends on your toughness and if you can handle the torment.

    Spirit regenerator:Crippling wave, this abilitiy is great since none of your gearing is gearing towards any elemental dmg or dmg at all. This reduce MS by 30% and AS by 20% on the monsters you're hitting (basically all around you). Which at this point is already great, reduce the death of your party members and easier time stacking the mobs since they're slowed. For the rune is situational, if you're too squishy for the current torment go withConcussion(enemies deal 20% less dmg) orBreaking Wave(enemies take 10% more dmg).

    Cyclone strike with implosion,your standard pull mechanic.

    Inner sanctuary with forbidden place,this is actually one of the most underestimated and forgotten ability and it'sREALLYgood! First of it reduces the damage taken by 55% for everyone in melee range, with the forbidden place rune everyone inside will take 30% increased damage too,PLUSa whopping 80% slow. With your 30% slow from crippling wave the mobs will basically not be able to escape the inner sanctuary = your ranged and melee party friends will love it!

    Mantra of conviction, your basic mantra. For fast clearing speed go with annihilation rune. If you're struggling with surviving, go with intimidation. (All mobs will deal 15% less damage, works as a debuff). Overawe can also be used for 6% increased damage taken, but IMO it's not worth it.

    Mantra of healing - Time of needThis mantra is worth picking up if your finding it difficult to survive the current torment or your teammates are dying all the time. If picking this mantra I suggest picking the passive "guiding light" too which gives your team up to 30% increased dmg when they are hurt and you activate the mantra.

    The 2 remaining skills is not that mandatory. I like dashing strike for mobility with the stunning rune. Stunning = surviveability, and i'm also using a http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/item/haunt-of-vaxo which benefits from stuns.
    The last spell i've picked isexploding palmwith the flesh is weak. This puts a debuff on a single mob and makes them take 20% increased damage.
    Really nice debuffer, it also does alot of aoe-dmg and if you are lucky to get your hands on a good http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/item/the-fist-of-azturrasq then your exploding palm will do even more damage.

    For passives I recommend Seize the initiative, one with everything, chant of resonance, exalted soul. This can all be swapped in and out for more/less toughness/spirit regen. Try to balance it yourself so you can survive the current torment with ease.



    Playstyle
    This build doesn't scale with damage that well. Your damage source is going to be mostly from exploding palm, and buffing your party members. So all you need to do is survive and regen enough spirit to spam your abilities.

    Your prio is to maintain mantras (made easier with chant of resonance passive), keep mobs close to you with cyclone strike, apply debuffs (mostly on elite packs). and STAY ALIVE!

    Have any questions? Just ask here and i'll try my best to answer them.
    Last edited by blazyb: 5/8/2014 4:56:13 PM
  • #2
    I would imagine deadly reach works with this build too as it procs the strong arm bracers. Also Im not sure if unity and conviction mantra work together unless it is fixed.
  • #3
    Interesting build, and I like seeing stuff like this around.

    Few things, there was previously a post confirmiing that the values from MoC aren't entirely correct, theyre about 18% with the mantra activated (and overawe). As Hooas already mentioned, Unity and MoC doesnt work together. If I were you, I'd use either Time of Need or Transgression, as just like other multipliers, past 100% the value falls 50%, so you lower that amount and increase the profile damage, which is a step back in the calculation, and will result in a total amount of more damage. Got any post confirming that strongarm bracers are triggered by cyclone strike? I'm personally very interested, but haven't seen/heard about it before.

    Any builds going about palm is highly spirit dependent, consiider IAS and spirit regen for it. The Spirit regen head (when youre inside inner sanctuary) is a very good option. Any CDR will help it a lot too.
    As mentioned above, what you wish to do is to buff the group's profile damage AND the monsters damage taken, pair this build with a BBV WD and Wolf DH and you got some sick damage with you.

    Keep it up.
  • #4
    Quote from Hooas

    Also Im not sure if unity and conviction mantra work together unless it is fixed.

    Its not working.
  • #5
    Quote from Hooas

    Also Im not sure if unity and conviction mantra work together unless it is fixed.

    Nothing to fix. Conviction adds a debuff to targets while Unity only works on mantras that affect your party members. Conviction should not and is not working with Unity.
  • #6
    There are major flaws in this build:

    1.too much spirit spenders, not enough spirit generation (50spirit for cyclone, 2 targets marked with Exploding Palm is 100 spirit, 1 mantra 25 spirit with passive that gives 175 spirit (-10% maybe if you got paragons) and you are pretty much empty... Without epiphany or some other spirit regen this wont work and ofcourse you wont be full on spirit everytime you pull a pack.

    2. Inner sanctuary is nice, but atm ground effect is too small and not worth it, especially if you drop Epiphany.

    3. In this build you deal no damage. If you have 3 imba dpsers it is ok, if not you will struggle on higher toments.

    4. I would rather get much more dps from gear, drop paper toughness and take Epiphany with Desert Cloud rune (50% damage reduce for 15sec). This rune is insane for T6.
  • #7
    Quote from Netherfrost

    Interesting build, and I like seeing stuff like this around.

    Few things, there was previously a post confirmiing that the values from MoC aren't entirely correct, theyre about 18% with the mantra activated (and overawe). As Hooas already mentioned, Unity and MoC doesnt work together. If I were you, I'd use either Time of Need or Transgression, as just like other multipliers, past 100% the value falls 50%, so you lower that amount and increase the profile damage, which is a step back in the calculation, and will result in a total amount of more damage. Got any post confirming that strongarm bracers are triggered by cyclone strike? I'm personally very interested, but haven't seen/heard about it before.

    Any builds going about palm is highly spirit dependent, consiider IAS and spirit regen for it. The Spirit regen head (when youre inside inner sanctuary) is a very good option. Any CDR will help it a lot too.
    As mentioned above, what you wish to do is to buff the group's profile damage AND the monsters damage taken, pair this build with a BBV WD and Wolf DH and you got some sick damage with you.

    Keep it up.

    Quote from sultangurde

    There are major flaws in this build:

    1.too much spirit spenders, not enough spirit generation (50spirit for cyclone, 2 targets marked with Exploding Palm is 100 spirit, 1 mantra 25 spirit with passive that gives 175 spirit (-10% maybe if you got paragons) and you are pretty much empty... Without epiphany or some other spirit regen this wont work and ofcourse you wont be full on spirit everytime you pull a pack.

    2. Inner sanctuary is nice, but atm ground effect is too small and not worth it, especially if you drop Epiphany.

    3. In this build you deal no damage. If you have 3 imba dpsers it is ok, if not you will struggle on higher toments.

    4. I would rather get much more dps from gear, drop paper toughness and take Epiphany with Desert Cloud rune (50% damage reduce for 15sec). This rune is insane for T6.


    Cyclone strike + strongarm bracers:http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/11913192267
    You both mention spirit regen problems, never had that problem with this build really. Running chant of resonance + exalted soul makes this easier. Also going for attack speed/cost reduction as paragon helps a lot. I'll upload a vid of me doing T5 rifts with a complete random group on 4-10mins.

    1. You don't use all your spirit spenders, on trash pack all you need to do is maintain mantra and keep them pulled. You usually dont have time for anything else since it'll die within 2 seconds. Watch the vid and you'll see. I manage more than fine, even without reapers wraps.

    2. The aoe on inner sanc is more than enough, if you are partying with a wiz they will help u pull it inside the sanc, if u play with WD they will use the ice pool and barbs can aoe stun.

    3. This build relies purely on your party members that's right. I run T5-T6 with my current gear, if I wanted to go down to T1-3 I can swap out some toughness gear for damage, NP! But that's not the purpose of this build.

    4. As long as you can tank the current torment level then I see no problem to stack too much toughness. You need to find a balance in toughness/damage in the current torment level. Altough damage is not that very important for this build, the 100+% damage buffer makes up for it. I did a play with a hammer barb and wizards, they were surprised with their 50m+ crits.
    Last edited by blazyb: 4/25/2014 5:59:09 AM
  • #8

    was reskilling my monk back to something similar,

    so I was curious to see what you had to say. Never considered running explosive palm because of the extra spender
    I might play around with it .

    Do you dual wield or take a shield with you?

    A little bit off-topic: I find the title of this thread a bit mileading, "116% extra dmg done by your party" or something might have been clearer

  • #9
    Right now im dual wielding, I've noticed my attack speed is faster while DW vs 1h+shield. I might pick up the crafted hallowed protectors set (claw+axe) with the 100 allres and 10% IAS bonus, which is really nice for this build.

    Im tanking T5 without any problem at all so a shield is not needed atm, maybe I'll need it for T6, doubt it though.

    About topic yeah, can't change that now :P
    Last edited by blazyb: 4/25/2014 6:25:47 AM
  • #10
    Quote from blazyb
    Quote from Netherfrost

    Interesting build, and I like seeing stuff like this around.

    Few things, there was previously a post confirmiing that the values from MoC aren't entirely correct, theyre about 18% with the mantra activated (and overawe). As Hooas already mentioned, Unity and MoC doesnt work together. If I were you, I'd use either Time of Need or Transgression, as just like other multipliers, past 100% the value falls 50%, so you lower that amount and increase the profile damage, which is a step back in the calculation, and will result in a total amount of more damage. Got any post confirming that strongarm bracers are triggered by cyclone strike? I'm personally very interested, but haven't seen/heard about it before.

    Any builds going about palm is highly spirit dependent, consiider IAS and spirit regen for it. The Spirit regen head (when youre inside inner sanctuary) is a very good option. Any CDR will help it a lot too.
    As mentioned above, what you wish to do is to buff the group's profile damage AND the monsters damage taken, pair this build with a BBV WD and Wolf DH and you got some sick damage with you.

    Keep it up.
    Quote from sultangurde

    There are major flaws in this build:

    1.too much spirit spenders, not enough spirit generation (50spirit for cyclone, 2 targets marked with Exploding Palm is 100 spirit, 1 mantra 25 spirit with passive that gives 175 spirit (-10% maybe if you got paragons) and you are pretty much empty... Without epiphany or some other spirit regen this wont work and ofcourse you wont be full on spirit everytime you pull a pack.

    2. Inner sanctuary is nice, but atm ground effect is too small and not worth it, especially if you drop Epiphany.

    3. In this build you deal no damage. If you have 3 imba dpsers it is ok, if not you will struggle on higher toments.

    4. I would rather get much more dps from gear, drop paper toughness and take Epiphany with Desert Cloud rune (50% damage reduce for 15sec). This rune is insane for T6.

    Cyclone strike + strongarm bracers:http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/11913192267
    You both mention spirit regen problems, never had that problem with this build really. Running chant of resonance + exalted soul makes this easier. Also going for attack speed/cost reduction as paragon helps a lot. I'll upload a vid of me doing T5 rifts with a complete random group on 4-10mins.

    1. You don't use all your spirit spenders, on trash pack all you need to do is maintain mantra and keep them pulled. You usually dont have time for anything else since it'll die within 2 seconds. Watch the vid and you'll see. I manage more than fine, even without reapers wraps.

    2. The aoe on inner sanc is more than enough, if you are partying with a wiz they will help u pull it inside the sanc, if u play with WD they will use the ice pool and barbs can aoe stun.

    3. This build relies purely on your party members that's right. I run T5-T6 with my current gear, if I wanted to go down to T1-3 I can swap out some toughness gear for damage, NP! But that's not the purpose of this build.

    4. As long as you can tank the current torment level then I see no problem to stack too much toughness. You need to find a balance in toughness/damage in the current torment level. Altough damage is not that very important for this build, the 100+% damage buffer makes up for it. I did a play with a hammer barb and wizards, they were surprised with their 50m+ crits.

    Mate you changed Resolve to Exalted soul in your build within last few hours.

    With Exalted Soul and Chant of Resonanse you can have enough spirit. True. But my personal opinion is: 2 spirit regen passives is a waste of slots.

    I use full dps build for T5/T6 (http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/sultangurde-2142/hero/488021).

    If You like "tanking things only and doing no damage" it is fine. While you tank them and w8 for others, i mark them with Exploding Palm and zerg one to explode. If other people assist marked ones, they boom very fast. Of course some packs are nasty for EP (health link, Shields, Fast Runners etc).

    I prefer full dps build with:

    1. solid hp and res

    2. based on LTK as main CC/Damage ability (40-60kk crits in group stun with buffs/debuffs)

    3. A bit of tank/buffer role (Epiphany with 50% damage reduce, strongarms with Deadly Reach rune, Conviction, Exploding Palm.

    What are your highest crits in this build (5kk?)

    Also if you have WD and Wizzard in group with (Piranhado, Blackhole), cyclone loses its importance.

    What hurts me most about cyclone is it doesnt work well with Epiphany (Inner fire)

    Last words. If you want to play "Sword and Board" aka with shield you picked wrong class :) Think about it.
    Last edited by sultangurde: 4/25/2014 7:30:12 AM
  • #11
    Video is from T4 not T5...
  • #12
    Sure your build is probably better in solo play, but this is not a solo build. I think my 100% increased dmg done to the entire party makes up for the small dps loss by far. Cyclone is still nice with blackhole and pirhanas to pull incoming mobs into them, also cyclone puts the 20-30% debuff on the mobs.

    Also compare your gear with my monks gear, I geared my monk in a few days with most coming from crafted set pieces. So this build is good for all the new monks that wanna do higher torments without the sick ele dmg requirements.

    It's not about tanking things and doing no damage. There is a reason that this build is called "support pull monk", and the reason is a 100% increased dmg buffer. Everyone i've played with so far has loved doing rifts with me and most of them add me.

    I have a 1.6M ele dps DH and with everyone i've asked they rather play with my monk than my DH.
    Last edited by blazyb: 4/25/2014 7:44:35 AM
  • #13
    Quote from blazyb

    Sure your build is probably better in solo play, but this is not a solo build. I think my 100% increased dmg done to the entire party makes up for the small dps loss by far. Cyclone is still nice with blackhole and pirhanas to pull incoming mobs into them, also cyclone puts the 20-30% debuff on the mobs.

    Also compare your gear with my monks gear, I geared my monk in a few days with most coming from crafted set pieces. So this build is good for all the new monks that wanna do higher torments without the sick ele dmg requirements.

    It's not about tanking things and doing no damage. There is a reason that this build is called "support pull monk", and the reason is a 100% increased dmg buffer. Everyone i've played with so far has loved doing rifts with me and most of them add me.

    I have a 1.6M ele dps DH and with everyone i've asked they rather play with my monk than my DH.

    No offence mate, but you are barely doing damage in terms of T5/T6. I agree you cant expect much from your gear after few days, but imo You sacrafice way too much for party...

    Yes. My build comes from 300h+ gameplay, but it is build for FULL PARTY ONLY!! I buff my friend constantly with:

    - aura of Conviction.

    - EP marks on targets

    -strongarms knockup

    And still do hell loads of dps!!! So what i am trying to say, new players should build their characters not only to Support, but to DPS, soak damage and Support!

    FYI I also buff:

    -with Thunderfury Procs - DH with Cull the Weak passive (+20% damage on slowed enemies). You do it also, but you are not even realising it :) Forbidden Palace is also slowing mobs, so DHs do much more damage on them.

    -buff their sustain because 3 of 4 people atm have Unity ring and I soak their damage quite often.

    Also you have to bear in mind that Strongarm effect is reduced on elites and rift Bosses and is often negated by WD and Wizzard pull abilities (unless all use strongarms).

    Ultimate monk T5/T6 buff ability is comming from Guiding Light passive in conjunction with Mantra of Healing (and hopefully 4P Inna if ever Fixed), but... all people in group have to have Unity ring, so You can use buff +30% damage buff to whole party during heavy damage encounters.

    Think about it :)
  • #14
    Im with OP. Its a matter of PERSONAL preference and playstyle. If some1 likes the support role its fine and we shouldnt jump on him for doing it. ;) A lot of people running mediocre/half decent gear and a damage soaking "tank" is mostly more then welcome. Sure a party of well geared players spend like 200-300hrs so far in the xpac wont need such a "tank" but thats the minority of the player base imo.
  • #15
    Quote from Shinna1989

    Im with OP. Its a matter of PERSONAL preference and playstyle. If some1 likes the support role its fine and we shouldnt jump on him for doing it. ;) A lot of people running mediocre/half decent gear and a damage soaking "tank" is mostly more then welcome. Sure a party of well geared players spend like 200-300hrs so far in the xpac wont need such a "tank" but thats the minority of the player base imo.

    Well it is not about picking a side: who is wrong, who is right. I am sharing general thoughts about T5/T6 monk role, because i tested a lot of builds (similar to OP one too) while our farming group climbed from T1 to T6. Totally agree with you when you say everyone got individual playstyle and preference. I am only pointing out that builds focused 90% on support and 10% on personal dps arent optimal. If you pick a long term target for yourself for next month or so pick dps with support role. Good luck:)
    Last edited by sultangurde: 4/25/2014 9:19:15 AM
  • #16
    Quote from sultangurde

    Thx for that suggestion, I'm using healing of mantra with the aoe resistance buff. Great defensively and great offensively with guiding light! Much appreciated.
    Last edited by blazyb: 4/25/2014 2:56:19 PM
  • #17
    I'm playing similar build on T6 with a small change that allows a lot more skill spam: I'm running EP with Strong Spirit rune. At first it seems silly, but running with WDs or well geared barbs/crusaders that 20% more dmg taken won't do that much and the spirit gains from EP fill the pool with every explosion. What comes to using damage oriented build as a monk on T6: I wouldn't bother unless running without real dpsers. Barbs, crusaders, dhs and wizards all out dps us by a large margin and WDs out dps all with even wider margin. What we have unique to us is the added clearing speed from debuffs/buffs and Exploding Palm (even other runes than Flesh is Weak).
  • #18
    How do you spend your paragon points? =)
  • #19
    All you wanna go for is high toughness and spirit regen. So MS (up to 25%) > dex > vit. Attack speed > CD reduction. All res > life/armour > life reg. Cost reduction > LoH
  • #20
    I'm here to say that you don't need unity to do T6 efficiently. You don't need any sheet dps on your monk either (for those that may think that you do). Honestly monk is a very flexible class. I think probably the most flexible class right now. I would have to say that optimal builds depend on your party. The "best of the best" build for t6 rifts will depend on the "best of the best" party.

    I've done 2 groups now T6. Each time it was the first time for most of the people in the party to play together. Our first attempt, one party was 7.5 minutes average. The other party was about 8-8.5 minutes average. Each party had one person who was being carried/semi carried, who totally would not be t6 or even t5 viable otherwise. And each party had me doing almost 0 sheet DPS, with all of the damage dumped into EP.

    Here's the build I'm roughly using now: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Shamaya-1780/hero/40421242

    As of writing this that profile is not up-to-date. I'm playing with blinding flash on a 4.5 second cooldown as my spirit generator with that one helm "The Laws of Seph." This helm/skill can be swapped out (only used 1 party). I have permanent epiphany with 50% dmg taken (combined with forbidden palace pretty amazing), but rune is swappable. You don't need "The Flesh is Weak"; strong spirit is also interchangeable. Exalted Soul / OWE / "Bacon of the Year" seem pretty set. Transcendence seems most flexible right now.

    I haven't tested yet / seen sufficient testing/experimentation/reason to run guiding light. Running with the shield, I'm assuming it won't do enough to be worth. 45k or so heal +15k if you had 100k globes. That's only about 10% of someone running 500k health (which is higher than normal i suppose). That would translate to (I imagine) 10% more dps. Not worth it for taking the passive/skill slot. Heal too unreliable You could try the reduced breath of heaven helm for spam. But it has a really low radius, and it might be too dangerous to /want/ your allies to be in close enough range to actually be at 70% hp for a full 30% dps increase. Just doesn't seem as good as alternatives.

    Halycon's Ascent is one of the most underestimated items in the game. With permanent epiphany you can have mobs CC'ed literally 50% of the time with this amulet alone.

    Taking away the need for sheet DPS leaves a shit ton of room to boost your survivability, utility, and EP DPS. For my build you'll want to stress stats like: -cooldown%, -resource%, area damage, elite damage, physical damage, globes, and defensive stats. And get as much utility on your items as you can. Ammys, weapons, belts (harrington's mostly), strongarms (preferably) or reapers, and anything else that boosts your utility/buffs.

    Have fun and enjoy T6.
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