The common novice question.

  • #1
    Hello to everyone out there!
    As a new monk player i came to the point where i have no clue how my next upgrades should look like.
    I'm currently farming mp3 pretty smoothly but would like to go up in the food pyramid. My current budget is ~15 Mil (would like to spend it on atleast 3 pieces) Here's a link for all you helpful people - http://eu.battle.net...8/hero/24324764

    Any help would mean a lot to me, thanks!
  • #2
    From a quick look around your gear you seem to lack EHP. What I'd reckon is that you try to get your AR and Armor values up and get your VIT around 800-1000. You seem to have Arcane Resistance pretty nicely so I would recommend investing on that instead of pure AR stat since you use OWE. Armor would give you nicely EHP also so try to get that better in your gear. And weapons would need some upgrade also, especially main hand.

    But this is just me saying from what I understand how Monks work, my main is Barbarian. But those are some general rules that should apply to all classes so hopefully you'll get some help from my advices.
  • #3
    Thanks for the response! Do you think crafting (shoulders/amu/gloves/bracers) would be a big step ahead in gearing ?
  • #4
    You may want to start shifting some stuff. Let's start. Of course you're limited by your budget but here's what you will need to work towards.

    1) Craft Dex Shoulders or get a Dual Resist Vile Ward

    Starting out more and more Paragon Levels, it is a good idea to get Double-Vite Inna's Pants
    2) Vitality Inna's Pants >>> 158-162+ vit / 96+ dex / 8 or 9% Attack Speed Bonus

    Your current Focus Resistance Nat's Boots is @ 90dex
    3) Dex Focus Res Nat's Boots (to maintain your resistance) >>> 188+ dex / 45+ Focus Resistance / 75+ AR / 6% Melee Dmg Reduction

    4) Fix that Bracers with something in the AH a rare with dual res and +vit as well, or craft Dex Bracers as well, hope for base +Vit, Focus resistance / +AR with Critical Hit Chance


    I would start with those. So that you can free up your Amulet in order to turn it into a more offensive piece because it is an offensive slot.

    Your amulet will need to have Critical Hit Chance on top of those stats, preferably 8% or more Critical Hit Chance.


    I hope this helped.


    Skills
    At your HP, I really like Serenity Peaceful Repose if you were to use/keep Serenity. Why Peaceful Repose? Ascension is usually pre-popped, unless you're guaranteed not to get a Shielding affix pack and you must be hitting them constantly, or else you'd still be at low HP at the 5th second.

    So far you also only have Fist of Thunder Thunderclap as your DPS output, you may want to consider gearing and slowly moving onwards to having a secondary power punch. Like even Way of 100Fists Blazing Fists, since you're using speed attacks.

    Of course, there is the Exploding Palm build, or the Wave of Light builds (usually with an Echoing Fury Offhand)
    Foundation (Start-to-Mid tier) Gearchecker; [US] unless stated
    1) CMWIZ PL91, [EU]PL62 Crit NatsHelm; 2) 0-CD Dogs since MID-FEB 2013 PL44;
    3) "Stunball Barrage" (Tball+F@W) Vengeance DH PL43 (1slot for H.Globe + PUR slot);
    4) Lazy-Dbl-LS Monk PL48
    5) Fundamental Barb (least played)
  • #5
    Of course, those Vitality Inna's Pants may become really expensive, so what you will want to think about is what I call Gem Tier method.

    Gem Tier method is assuming that you have more invisible sockets for you to add gemming stats.

    Let me give you an example.

    Why did I say 158 or 162 vit on Inna's Pants earlier in my first response?

    100 (first max roll) + 58 (Radiant Star Gem tier) or 62 (Marquise Gem tier), once you think in this way, you will find yourself more calculative and knowing how to make gear "last longer".


    For your budget, you may want to think about 142+ vit on the Inna's Pants ( I know this might make you blow all your gold but it will last longer ), Vitality Inna's Pants is the starting out way of leveling monks, until you reach higher Paragon when you have a better base +Vitality, then you can shift to the DPS versions of Inna's Pants which is the Double-Dex Vite Inna's Pants.


    So I hope I helped you out in explaining why my assistance was "rather expensive" or "beyond your budget".
    Foundation (Start-to-Mid tier) Gearchecker; [US] unless stated
    1) CMWIZ PL91, [EU]PL62 Crit NatsHelm; 2) 0-CD Dogs since MID-FEB 2013 PL44;
    3) "Stunball Barrage" (Tball+F@W) Vengeance DH PL43 (1slot for H.Globe + PUR slot);
    4) Lazy-Dbl-LS Monk PL48
    5) Fundamental Barb (least played)
  • #6
    Quote from ay0d

    Thanks for the response! Do you think crafting (shoulders/amu/gloves/bracers) would be a big step ahead in gearing ?


    As far as answering your question, crafting can make a mess out of your resistances, right now like the "creazur" said, you're using Arcane Resistance and One with Everything (OWE) passive, so you need to work on getting the right Focus Resistance.

    The only problem that comes with crafting is that, more than likely, it will change your Focus Resistance, so you could do this first if you choose to do so. However, you will have to work on your HP or else the loss of resistance will only make you fall even faster.
    Foundation (Start-to-Mid tier) Gearchecker; [US] unless stated
    1) CMWIZ PL91, [EU]PL62 Crit NatsHelm; 2) 0-CD Dogs since MID-FEB 2013 PL44;
    3) "Stunball Barrage" (Tball+F@W) Vengeance DH PL43 (1slot for H.Globe + PUR slot);
    4) Lazy-Dbl-LS Monk PL48
    5) Fundamental Barb (least played)
  • #7
    Wow you sure helped me a lot, I will be looking forward to getting those double vit inna's and changing the bracers at first. Then i'll focus on the boots and other stuff. I will try to get my resistances up to ~600 most likely and buff the hp a bit. Then i'll focus on offensive items (amu / new weps etc.)
    Greatly appreciate your time spent writing and helping me out guys!
  • #8
    Quote from Lotware

    Your current Focus Resistance Nat's Boots is @ 90dex
    3) Dex Focus Res Nat's Boots (to maintain your resistance) >>> 188+ dex / 45+ Focus Resistance / 75+ AR / 6% Melee Dmg Reduction

    If you get a 6% for "free" then pick it otherwise NEVER EVER pay extra money/gold for that +1%. Melee Dmg reduction doesnt help at all vs. reflect and in 99,9% you wont die from a melee hit were those 1% would safe you from dying. Same applies for inna´s chest.
    Words of wisdom: Don't follow the advice of people who won't have to deal with the consequences.
  • #9
    Quote from Shinna1989

    Quote from Lotware

    Your current Focus Resistance Nat's Boots is @ 90dex
    3) Dex Focus Res Nat's Boots (to maintain your resistance) >>> 188+ dex / 45+ Focus Resistance / 75+ AR / 6% Melee Dmg Reduction

    If you get a 6% for "free" then pick it otherwise NEVER EVER pay extra money/gold for that +1%. Melee Dmg reduction doesnt help at all vs. reflect and in 99,9% you wont die from a melee hit were those 1% would safe you from dying. Same applies for inna´s chest.


    well, of course, this is true, but at the end of the day (when you're all done and stat-wise for endgame), there's only so much more to pick on, and those 5% can really bum you out. I just don't wanna encourage 5% all the time, of course I know it's a "way marked up price".

    Also, i only believe that 5% comes when you're doing entire-set (building sets) altogether :) when upgrading, of course you gotta check both 5 and 6% when searching, it's a step that comes into question, once you search both, then you know what's right, if the cost is beyond your budget, then you can't buy it anyways.

    And also, I didn't ask him to go buy some "2bil" item. Focus Nat's Boots are actually quite cheap, the only difference is when which Focus Resist is "more handy than others", that's what also hurt the price.


    EDIT: Also, on the topic of those Inna's chest, i actually see the 5%, the really high vit ones, people only want to sell them faster, so the price actually is way lower, because "some people" (in your case like me for instance, likes to be perfect, so i like the 6%), i wouldn't fall prey to those cheaper 5%, whether or not because they probably found them and per-item profit perspective, it is useless to them thus they get sold faster thus i dont benefit, the one who i bought it from does. The adage of selling: "Every little bit adds up" (kind of like every day if you put 50 cents into your piggy bank, just like when farming, since one doesn't loot gold, but a rare ring without really being AH-nerdy to look up each price, let's say you just want to rid of it and not vendor but use the AH, then you put up for 300k, when the next is a mil (the actual worth in terms of stats), in the per-item profit selling perspective, 300k is pure profit versus waiting to sell in the stats-gearing point of view. Thus i am only benefiting the seller.
    Foundation (Start-to-Mid tier) Gearchecker; [US] unless stated
    1) CMWIZ PL91, [EU]PL62 Crit NatsHelm; 2) 0-CD Dogs since MID-FEB 2013 PL44;
    3) "Stunball Barrage" (Tball+F@W) Vengeance DH PL43 (1slot for H.Globe + PUR slot);
    4) Lazy-Dbl-LS Monk PL48
    5) Fundamental Barb (least played)
  • #10
    Its pretty damn easy why 5% vs. 6% melee dmg reduction doesnt matter at all. 99% of the time you will die from:

    - Groundeffects(stacked poison pools and/or stacked molten)
    - Arcane Sentry
    - Molten explosion and getting maybe vortex´d in :P
    - Reflect
    - Fast+Electrified plus one of the above
    - Being frozen and one of the above

    when your ehp and life sustain is not good enough. Melee dmg. reduction dont help you at all in this cases. Lets say you have two nats boots both with same dex, all res, stacking res. One comes with 6% reduction the other with slightly higher armor but only 5%. The one with 5% is mostly cheaper and offers more value in terms of ehp where you need it. Melee dmg reduction was very strong in the early days of inferno where even white mobs hitting like a truck but these days are gone for good.

    Sure in terms of endgame gearing you want (close to) perfect stats and thus paying extra for that 1% but when gearing for mid tier its totaly wasted money which adds up too. Paying lets say 5mil extra for 2 items could result in getting less dps on a ring or what ever. ;)
    Words of wisdom: Don't follow the advice of people who won't have to deal with the consequences.
  • #11
    It does not make sense to talk about endgame gear for a low budget, as any one piece for a MP10 monk is worth more than the whole gear set of a MP5 monk. Make the best use of the gold and do the crafting first for OWE passive, and get the other pieces from AH to match the chosen resist,
  • #12
    Do whatever you want, I am just saying that I search both 6% first, then go back to the 5%.

    I will look more closely to the 5% ones only if I am building sets for people as they come with a budget of sorts. When you upgrade, you try to get whatever that doesn't give you a sore eye.

    5 mil * 2 = 10mil or whatever your number was, rings, sigh, you're not really going anywhere with that, if you would like a better ring, you would just simply go for the ring first, if 5% don't matter, then everything else doesn't except for that focus resist, therefore, you should go for the ring first if 10M mattered so much.

    Anyhow, as far as why I talked about end-game gear, making it all more worthwhile, I just list the usual 6% so that you don't have look into that in the future if the stats even look correct, like say:

    186 dex / 230 vit / 10 or 11% Life / 5% Inna's Chest / 412 default armor

    180 dex / 41 focus resist / 73 all res / 5% melee reduction / 572 total armor

    Alright, so I guess we'll never have to bother with those ever again? Nope, those are my example numbers and one would talk about the 5% and armor, and focus res, and the all res, and then possibly when in the future, you can shift that focus res somewhere else, and turn it into a dex + vit where you open up the dex to further way past 200 for more offense. So if 10% versus 12% Life? Would you look into that? 2% Life? just like the Vitality Gem in Helm? If you are never going to change the helm again, would you grab a Marquise Gem for it since you have already fixed your head piece? People who will be changing their headpiece stays with a Radiant Star tier, but if you were to never change again because you obtained a really decent Crit Mempo, would you get the Marquise? Oh no, it's 1%, it's not like I am going to unsocket for 5M, the headpiece is clearly done, unless your Crit % you are praying for is 6% and yours is a 4.5%, so you want 1.5% more, oh wait, didn't we talk about 1% and 2%, it doesn't really matter what property it is, Life% Critical Hit Chance, Attack Speed Bonus, 1% can mean different in prices, does it mean we should keep lowering %'s so that we save millions then we never look at our gear again because 1 or 2% shouldnt be a problem, I mean you've already achieved 45% base Critical Hit Chance, why bother 4.5 to a 6% crit on the mempo right? Yes, sheet dps but why? it "looks" a problem to be upgraded, same with 5% melee and 6%, sooner or later it'll be the change. You can ignore it but you don't need to write something like that to disagree with me just because you dont like the 6%.

    So obviously you would look into every property on your upgrades, If not, it'd be like saying why are they touching Life Regen the previous recent patch, and then now upcoming for Health Globes? If like you say, no one cares about 1%, why is it varied? And then why the changes of 300 Life Regen (300 life compared to 5k+ damage taken, that's also a very small %), or what about another property (Health Globes) when you already died. I'm just giving the picture, I'm not going to argue further because I love Health Globes and I have been using them since mid February. So, all those properties in this respective paragraph has no pertinence to helping because it is also a very small percentage, correct? But in fact it can be game-changing, that's why they are being patched.

    Also you didn't get my picture of the per-item profit perspective, you benefit the seller not the buyer (the one who is upgrading or getting it done). Most 5% do sell cheap because they are self-found and unused so they post them up, the 6% are more useful in their eyes and since it's so-called "more perfect" of course people rather overprice them as well. I didn't say to jump into it, I gave the standard foundation stats checking and as a person who never gave me gold, you can use the Auction House at your own will, I always do not take gold from others because I want them to be the ones to play and to see the Auction House together for themselves, when I help out in upgrades, I discuss it over voice chat systems, and provide them with several different choices, the item is in front of them on their screen and they buy what they want. I don't take the gold, I only talk about it, if they want 5% like you said, then they can take 5%.

    For what I know if I want to help out someone while talking about getting only the 5% ones, I will then want them to obtain 200dex/60 focus res/70-80 ar/5% melee, and 600+ total armor, Because the goal here is to get them dex, of course concentrate hard on their focus resistance, and the AR doesnt matter again my 76 or 77 wouldn't matter right? So then they can just grab whatever i suppose, and then when it starts all adding up they end up below slightly, then for each item they go below slightly it all adds up. "Every little bit adds up" per slot.
    Foundation (Start-to-Mid tier) Gearchecker; [US] unless stated
    1) CMWIZ PL91, [EU]PL62 Crit NatsHelm; 2) 0-CD Dogs since MID-FEB 2013 PL44;
    3) "Stunball Barrage" (Tball+F@W) Vengeance DH PL43 (1slot for H.Globe + PUR slot);
    4) Lazy-Dbl-LS Monk PL48
    5) Fundamental Barb (least played)
  • #13
    "Melee dmg reduction was very strong in the early days of inferno where even white mobs hitting like a truck but these days are gone for good."

    1) Mob Density already killed what you just said.

    2) Snakes or vipers in Act 2 Dalgur Oasis,

    3) Hammer dudes in both Act 1 and Act 2,

    4) and if you want to play Act 4 those Mallet Lords, and regular guys, um what were they called Oppressors? the regular non-elite Oppressors hit like a truck more than the actual elite ones, I don't know why.


    You are a melee class, this is a melee class in discussion, there will be melee hits coming in as well. OF course there are effects, how would resistance help if you listed all of them up above? That's why some players went for Glass Cannon builds because being Offensive might just be the best defense, so why not we suggest someone to go all out offensive if every single case is "effects" and not-melee dmg. The following shows almost how many situations you listed that in the end, resistance also sounds quite silly to begin with:

    [start quote] Its pretty damn easy why 5% vs. 6% melee dmg reduction doesnt matter at all. 99% of the time you will die from:

    - Groundeffects(stacked poison pools and/or stacked molten)
    - Arcane Sentry
    - Molten explosion and getting maybe vortex´d in :P
    - Reflect
    - Fast+Electrified plus one of the above
    - Being frozen and one of the above

    [end quote]
    Foundation (Start-to-Mid tier) Gearchecker; [US] unless stated
    1) CMWIZ PL91, [EU]PL62 Crit NatsHelm; 2) 0-CD Dogs since MID-FEB 2013 PL44;
    3) "Stunball Barrage" (Tball+F@W) Vengeance DH PL43 (1slot for H.Globe + PUR slot);
    4) Lazy-Dbl-LS Monk PL48
    5) Fundamental Barb (least played)
  • #14
    Quote from MONK_101

    It does not make sense to talk about endgame gear for a low budget, as any one piece for a MP10 monk is worth more than the whole gear set of a MP5 monk. Make the best use of the gold and do the crafting first for OWE passive, and get the other pieces from AH to match the chosen resist,


    And this is only true for the Shoulders, and for some people RNG is RNG, bracers can be really easy or really hard. Also, for low budget people, their resistance may not be up to par, one cannot say rely on crafting to suit OWE passive because it usually properly changes their Focus Resistance, coz crafting is "RNG" as people call it.
    Foundation (Start-to-Mid tier) Gearchecker; [US] unless stated
    1) CMWIZ PL91, [EU]PL62 Crit NatsHelm; 2) 0-CD Dogs since MID-FEB 2013 PL44;
    3) "Stunball Barrage" (Tball+F@W) Vengeance DH PL43 (1slot for H.Globe + PUR slot);
    4) Lazy-Dbl-LS Monk PL48
    5) Fundamental Barb (least played)
  • #15
    Of course I know what's meant by crafting. I crafted more than 200 braces yesterday without picking any one as I'd like to improve on my 6CC, AR and vit brace, and I'll keep on doing it occasionally. For OWE, I'll aim for a double resist on bracers first, then shoulder, and as for gloves and amulet, I'd rather get them from AH before it is closed. I am not ruling out crafting them, but at a later stage to be realistic.

    What is the logic of paying much higher for the extra one percent when the other stats are not perfect? Of course, I'll take a 6% if the price is within 10%. For endgame items, prices are calculated with entirely different concept, and +1% to perfect, if available, may mean more than 100% difference in price.
  • #16
    Quote from MONK_101

    What is the logic of paying much higher for the extra one percent when the other stats are not perfect? Of course, I'll take a 6% if the price is within 10%. For endgame items, prices are calculated with entirely different concept, and +1% to perfect, if available, may mean more than 100% difference in price.


    ^ This is a fine explanation but the other one I saw way earlier from someone else is just off the charts. It was like it held absolutely two different things, more to say why don't we just kill first before anything ever happens.

    That last response is upvoted, definitely more well-explained and well-phrased than mine obviously, and I certainly don't mind this explanation, taught me well too. The other one by someone else has many flaws unlike this one.
    Foundation (Start-to-Mid tier) Gearchecker; [US] unless stated
    1) CMWIZ PL91, [EU]PL62 Crit NatsHelm; 2) 0-CD Dogs since MID-FEB 2013 PL44;
    3) "Stunball Barrage" (Tball+F@W) Vengeance DH PL43 (1slot for H.Globe + PUR slot);
    4) Lazy-Dbl-LS Monk PL48
    5) Fundamental Barb (least played)
  • #17
    It has been a nice chat with you on the strategy in getting items.

    To the OP, need a shoulder by crafting or from AH to add HP by something like 10k.

    For DPS, I'll upgrade in the order: amulet, ring, gloves and bracers. Get a 6CC INNA helm, fairly cheap now, and upgrade the gems if possible. As for weapon, CD has to be added, but only deal with them with a higher budget.
  • #18
    Melee Dmg Reduction kicks in after armor and resistens. Lets assume the following stats:

    40k HP
    60% Reduce from Armor
    60% Reduce from Resistens

    Results in 84% reduction. Now a mob would melee swing you for 200k. He hits you for 32k dmg

    With two 5% items the dmg will further reduced by 9,75% = ~28880
    With one 5% and one 6% the dmg will further reduced by 10,70% = ~28576
    With two 6% items the dmg will further reduced by 11,64% = 28275

    As you can see the difference between two 5% items and two 6% items is not even worth thinking about it. You can easily and for sure cheaper get enough ehp to avoid a killing blow from a mob by getting slightly more armor, resist or hp.

    P.S. the difference would be even smaller if you factor in the inbuild 30% dmg reduction.
    Words of wisdom: Don't follow the advice of people who won't have to deal with the consequences.
  • #19
    Quote from Shinna1989

    Melee Dmg Reduction kicks in after armor and resistens. Lets assume the following stats:

    40k HP
    60% Reduce from Armor
    60% Reduce from Resistens

    Results in 84% reduction. Now a mob would melee swing you for 200k. He hits you for 32k dmg

    With two 5% items the dmg will further reduced by 9,75% = ~28880
    With one 5% and one 6% the dmg will further reduced by 10,70% = ~28576
    With two 6% items the dmg will further reduced by 11,64% = 28275

    As you can see the difference between two 5% items and two 6% items is not even worth thinking about it. You can easily and for sure cheaper get enough ehp to avoid a killing blow from a mob by getting slightly more armor, resist or hp.

    P.S. the difference would be even smaller if you factor in the inbuild 30% dmg reduction.


    Actually any form of damage reduction is applied multiplicatively. So melee reduction would be applied as so:

    Damage reduced= 1-[(1-resists reduction)(1-armor reduction)(1-melee reduction)]

    So total damage reduced with 60% resists/armor reduction and 5% melee would be: 84.8% total so you'd take 30400 from a 200k hit, with 6% it would be 84.96% total so you'd take 30080 damage from a 200k hit.

    But yes the difference between 5 and 6% isn't much.
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