Build for farming on MP0

  • #21
    @Schmii

    I believe that TR hits multiple targets with each swing, so that slightly offsets the low proc chance.

    What is more important I think is that the Cyclones stick around while you move to the next pack. With the low mob health at MP0-2 this is usually enough to kill off anything still on it's feet. If you compare it e.g. with blade storm, with the high movement speed of TR you probably only get one or two ticks of SW before you are back out of range, while the cyclones that you leave behind will do five or six hits each.
    My monk Vin
  • #22
    Quote from Schmii

    I'm very curious how crit chance is good for TR builds proccing cyclones.

    https://docs.google....d=0&output=html

    http://www.diablofan...-the-1001-gods/

    Fists of Thunder: "1.875x Proc Rate (1.5x AS & 375% Proc per 3 punch cycle)"

    Cyclone: "Dual fists give 1.61 attack speed, so you would only need 9% crit for cyclone > bladestorm."

    Tempest Rush: 0.25 proc rate (LoH value)

    Cyclone: 1.875 / 0.25 = 7.5x lower proc rate. Assuming one attack speed item 1.61 / 1.09 = 1.5x lower proc rate.

    9 x 1.5 x 7.5 seems to mean 100% crit chance is required to beat bladestorm...

    In another scenario with 50% (40) crit chance, 0.25 proc rate, 1.0 (1.2) attack speed means you crit once every 2 hits, 8 hits required to proc a cyclone. I don't think cyclone is worthwhile with TR farming. You crit more, but cyclone procs are not worthwhile in which case it's just character sheet dps. The suggestion of a high crit damage xeph assumes it would be cheap where the bread and butter specs desire crit chance.

    Mind you the hybrid spec would still likely use FoT to gain spirit between TRing between packs making math muddy.

    Consider that bladestorm is a 33% sweeping wind increase, firestorm a 40% aura increase, inner storm 3 spirit per second. One cyclone every few seconds doesn't seem worthwhile.


    Good points/questions. I will try and answer them the best I can though more testing is required.

    1. I 100% agree with your math regarding Bladestorm's relative efficiency in DPS compared to Cyclone. The difference mainly comes from Cyclones increasing the efficiency of damage allocation.

    I will try to explain that last statement:
    When a given monster has x life. You need to do only x damage to kill it.
    If you do 2x damage, a full 50% of your damage is worthless.

    When TRing around, you are WAY over-killing many monsters with SW damage (especially when SW crits).
    This means that gaining 33% more SW damage is often not increasing your TRUE killing speed because the monster would have died either way.

    Cyclones, on the other hand, have the ability to kill a total of 6 monsters each spawn. This can lead to MUCH more efficient spread of your overall DPS. You spawn 1 Cyclone behind you and let it clean up an entire room of monsters.

    2. Just to re-affirm this point, in your 50% crit example.

    Let's say you TR into 8 monsters at once. Your SW crits on 4 of them (going to assume no statistical deviation from the average for simplicity) which kills them, 4 are left standing.

    You now have a choice, you can deal 33% more damage with bladestorm which, if it is enough to up your non-crit SW to OHK status, then it is better (I do not believe it will).

    However, if you instead choose Cyclone, in 8 monsters hit you proc 1 cyclone, it will ALSO crit 3 of it's 6 hits which kill 3 monsters in 3 hits. That leaves 3 non crits to kill the last monster.

    This all happens while you are off the screen so you only needed to run through them and didn't need to stick around.

    In the end, even though you do more "dps" with Bladestorm, you kill all 8 monsters faster with Cyclone.

    This also conforms to my anecdotal evidence.

    3. I am strictly talking about the efficiency of a true TR build that doesn't stop to hit things. However, in either case, unless you have no sockets in your weapons and no CHD on weps, Crit% is so much better than CHD that even though you get CHD at a discount per stat point, I doubt it is a worthwhile savings.

    Plus, Xeph ammy is already a SUPER niche item so you aren't exactly breaking the bank for a Crit% Xeph.
  • #23
    Oh, I see what you're saying. I have been sticking around to collect gold while you're killing whatever you can running through them.

    Your method is more efficient XP wise.

    I wonder how badly we can abuse the screenshot mechanic of sweeping wind. I imagine with a strong enough SW SS nothing would get left behind.

    Hmm... more testing indeed.
  • #24
    Quote from Schmii

    Oh, I see what you're saying. I have been sticking around to collect gold while you're killing whatever you can running through them.

    Your method is more efficient XP wise.

    I wonder how badly we can abuse the screenshot mechanic of sweeping wind. I imagine with a strong enough SW SS nothing would get left behind.

    Hmm... more testing indeed.


    Oh, I assumed you were SW locking and going for kill/hour efficiency! haha my bad!

    Let's talk in game!
  • #25
    Here's the rather feeble attempt with failed speech and a loaded bag while drinking for your picking apart

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSeic5yVRhQ
  • #26
    damn, Scmii. i need to get some dps. lol. and more MS and more spirit regen. I'm still messing around with the same experimental build i used for my thread a couple weeks ago. How the heck are you keeping SW up all the time? i mean, i can easily just pop it back on most of the time cause i got that inna's discount, but i dont ever get it for that long. maybe i'll start actually buying stuff for the build. lol.
    heavymetal#1322
    http://us.battle.net...22/hero/3153312 (wiz)
    http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/heavymetal-1322/hero/8654665 (monk)
    my twitch feed (just messing around, no super player or anything)
    http://www.justin.tv/heavymetalmak
  • #27
    Quote from Schmii

    Here's the rather feeble attempt with failed speech and a loaded bag while drinking for your picking apart


    And Druin spamming you :D
    My monk Vin
  • #28
    i may only have 96K dps, but i will figure out how to make my monk like that, without the dps if i have too. already bought an inna's helm with spirit regen to replace mine, got some bonus +50 arcane resist with it. :Thumbs Up: and i should have a stone of jordan made for a monk. we'll see what that puts my spirit regen at. was already at 6.33 with my current build. next i'll have to work on some movement speed and eventually more attack speed. that video is really nice to a fledgling TR monk like myself
    heavymetal#1322
    http://us.battle.net...22/hero/3153312 (wiz)
    http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/heavymetal-1322/hero/8654665 (monk)
    my twitch feed (just messing around, no super player or anything)
    http://www.justin.tv/heavymetalmak
  • #29
    Quote from thundersteele

    Quote from Schmii

    Here's the rather feeble attempt with failed speech and a loaded bag while drinking for your picking apart


    And Druin spamming you :D


    I still have those boots if you want to toss yours and some money at my for the upgrade. If I don't see a post by tomorrow morning i'll toss them up for a 1M starting bid and see what happens over the weekend.
  • #30
    Quote from Schmii

    I still have those boots if you want to toss yours and some money at my for the upgrade. If I don't see a post by tomorrow morning i'll toss them up for a 1M starting bid and see what happens over the weekend.


    ah, the boots :)

    I think I could do 25m + my boots. I don't want to throw too much gold out for a small upgrade, so if you think you can do better by putting them on the AH, please go for it.

    Thanks in any case.
    My monk Vin
  • #31
    gotta love when the shrine boosts spirit regen to 26 per second!

    heavymetal#1322
    http://us.battle.net...22/hero/3153312 (wiz)
    http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/heavymetal-1322/hero/8654665 (monk)
    my twitch feed (just messing around, no super player or anything)
    http://www.justin.tv/heavymetalmak
  • #32
    Quote from thundersteele

    Quote from Schmii

    I still have those boots if you want to toss yours and some money at my for the upgrade. If I don't see a post by tomorrow morning i'll toss them up for a 1M starting bid and see what happens over the weekend.


    ah, the boots :)

    I think I could do 25m + my boots. I don't want to throw too much gold out for a small upgrade, so if you think you can do better by putting them on the AH, please go for it.

    Thanks in any case.


    Talk to you in-game.
  • #33
    That's a lot of spirit regen hah
  • #34
    Quote from Windir8

    That's a lot of spirit regen hah


    its awesome. i already run at 11.21 spirit/sec and with SW - Inner Storm its at 14.21 and it basically doesnt drop, i've noticed about 12.5-13/sec seems to be the magic number. then you hit the Empowered shrines and.....damn!!
    heavymetal#1322
    http://us.battle.net...22/hero/3153312 (wiz)
    http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/heavymetal-1322/hero/8654665 (monk)
    my twitch feed (just messing around, no super player or anything)
    http://www.justin.tv/heavymetalmak
  • #35
    Tried TR out for the first time yesterday after much deliberation (it just didn't seem like it was gona be fun to me, for some reason, plus my gear isn't/wasn't adequate):

    I don't have a Skorn. From what I understand the faster your attack speed is, the less efficient your TR becomes, this is what kept me from trying it before - I have two standard cyclone 1handers (as can be seen here) and with my regular gear setup I have about 2.3 APS average. This is clearly not sustainable, even with really high spirit regen, let alone for me. As can be seen, I have gotten my hands on a super cheap Inna's Radiance with like 2 spirit/sec and am using my templar and the Chant of Resonance passive; this is very low still so I'm trying to see if I can fish up a SoJ soon, but then again I can't replace my hellfire ring and to replace my Nat's 2 piece I'd have to buy pretty solid boots and a really good SoJ to make up for the DPS loss. I mean not that I need it for farming mp2 which is what I always do but I hate having low damage output.

    So the thing here is I'm not sure whether or not I can really optimize this much, I did a bunch of test runs yesterday after getting the inna's spirit stone (my "old" one has 200 dex, 100~ vit, way more resists, 6 crit and 60 life/spirit spent) which was a pretty big downgrade but still obviously worth it for the TR uptime and replacing some of my AS items for counter-parts with higher dex (trifecta gloves and my other offhand, a dagger with just about the same stats as the sword I'm currently using but around 5k~ more DPS) - the results were quite pleasant, my modified Alkaizer runs which basically consist of clearing up his zones + some of keep depths 1 and all of keep depths 3 at mp2 were done in about 15 minutes which is really nice considering the amount of rares/legendaries/XP they net me.

    I wasn't spirit starved as I thought I'd be because meleeing a big trash pack or elites for about 3 seconds gets me from 0 to 150 but I want more speed. I have like 800 million to blow and still be left with some for other affairs, I'm not really willing to play 2hander rather than dual wield unless it's visibly better and makes me way faster but I am curious about whether or not I should spend on say, slower 1handers, a good SoJ/Xephirian, whether or not I should use MoH with the spirit regen rune, etc. I consider myself to be a good player so I'm sure I can make this work until I get paragon 100 and then be on my way but I'd like my journey to be fun and smooth, and right now I'm very keen on Tempest Rush and want to get the most out of it - if someone who has been playing the spec for longer than I have has some ideas and opinions I'd appreciate it a lot.
  • #36
    i think the two hander is worth it. i dont even have lifesteal on my skorn cause i'm a poor gold type of player. but i got 1600 LOH, which is plenty for the lower MP levels. I say, if you got 800 mil to blow, then you might as well buy a nice set of gear for farming. you can always sell it off later when you dont need it.

    I think i went from 115K all the way down to 84K dps with the gear i have on now. The Xephirian ammy is ok for spirit regen purposes, but you lose all that crit chance and other nice attributes. I lose about 15K alone for wearing that. lol. I can do this with my old ammy and and a different ring or something and get 176K dps buffed. but for now, my buffed dps is only at 114K, which is what it used to be unbuffed. I dont have a good set of DW weps, but i'm sure it might drain the spirit faster.

    I say, defiinitely pick up a nice SoJ. There are a bunch and they arent that much. I snagged some ice climbers. I'm still saving so i can one day afford a Nat's reflection to get that 7% crit chance bonus
    heavymetal#1322
    http://us.battle.net...22/hero/3153312 (wiz)
    http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/heavymetal-1322/hero/8654665 (monk)
    my twitch feed (just messing around, no super player or anything)
    http://www.justin.tv/heavymetalmak
  • #37
    Spent around 17 million and bought myself a SoJ that I think is decent with undeniably good FoT damage and regen just lacking a bit on the elite damage department (equivalents with more were like 30+ mil) and a pair of Zuni boots for fun - I saw several okay rare ones but the damage I got to keep by using these, 8k direct upgrade from my nats not including the 2 piece obv., even though they lack a bit of defensive stats it was really nice. Ice Climbers would've been way better but the run speed ones with double resists and decent main stats made me cringe a little (for a farming set anyway, for an actual sick set for PvP or runs post 100 paragon or what have you they were actually affordable), I'm already longing to the time I get to use my 2 piece nat's again, the crit bonus is gigantic and even the DPS you can get from just the ring alone if it has high dex/avg. damage and/or crit chance is off the rails.

    I still have like 120k DPS and even though my EHP visibly dropped it's still very hard to die when doing my runs on mp2 asides from nasty reflect damage packs which are the reason I'm really craving to get my serenity back (fun times killing all 3-6 mobs in 1 blind during the immune).

    I'm still trying to figure out whether I should use Sixth Sense over Chant of Resonance - with my regen still low the chant looked better but in reality I think the fact I dual wield and even having dropped like every bit of IAS I could (down to 1.8-2.05 APS), I will benefit more from having a higher spirit pool that I can just fill up while meleeing bigger trash packs or champions. Think it gives me more TR up time overall than the other does.

    Having fun, though, even though I'm kind of tempted to get ahold of a good Skorn to try and make it even more enjoyable. Shame the need for LS (I have 0 LoH) makes it super pricy when compared to the other parts I've bought for the set thus far.
  • #38
    i hope to one day be able to afford a skorn with life steal and sell my LOH skorn off.
    heavymetal#1322
    http://us.battle.net...22/hero/3153312 (wiz)
    http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/heavymetal-1322/hero/8654665 (monk)
    my twitch feed (just messing around, no super player or anything)
    http://www.justin.tv/heavymetalmak
  • #39
    I thought I would mention a SoJ is not required for this build, I had more luck without it.

    youtube.com/watch?v=bxRKVM_LyTs

    Most of my spirit now comes from talents: OWE, 2 spirit, 35% 2H. Circular breathing, inner storm, templar. The only spirit item is Inna's helm.

    Making these changes allow running a leoric and hellfire for maximum experience and it clocks noticably higher. The other benefit is if you use a nat's ring for 2pc you can keep it.

    You may notice I dropped fleet footed. When you hit trash with tempest rush it appears it pushes mobs based on attack speed vs run speed. If you have similar attack to run speed it seems to keep trash ahead of you. I had 34% MS and 34% as in the video.

    Another benefit is some survivabiltiy can come from your ring replacing SoJ and you have some more control against horde reflect damage. If you have less attack speed or run all resist I'm sure the 2 spirit or OWE can be dropped though.

    Blind is still used on all elites and melee's to ensure the 18% from foresight stays on.
  • #40
    Quote from Schmii

    I thought I would mention a SoJ is not required for this build, I had more luck without it.

    youtube.com/watch?v=bxRKVM_LyTs

    Most of my spirit now comes from talents: OWE, 2 spirit, 35% 2H. Circular breathing, inner storm, templar. The only spirit item is Inna's helm.

    Making these changes allow running a leoric and hellfire for maximum experience and it clocks noticably higher. The other benefit is if you use a nat's ring for 2pc you can keep it.

    You may notice I dropped fleet footed. When you hit trash with tempest rush it appears it pushes mobs based on attack speed vs run speed. If you have similar attack to run speed it seems to keep trash ahead of you. I had 34% MS and 34% as in the video.

    Another benefit is some survivabiltiy can come from your ring replacing SoJ and you have some more control against horde reflect damage. If you have less attack speed or run all resist I'm sure the 2 spirit or OWE can be dropped though.

    Blind is still used on all elites and melee's to ensure the 18% from foresight stays on.


    You are dead right about the run-speed vs attack-speed issue.

    If you have too little attack speed and too much run speed you will actually fly through mobs before they have a chance to die!

    I couldn't force myself to spend the gold a Leoric's takes, but I assume it is strictly better xp/hour than a SoJ. You can always simply drop attack speed if you need to drop spirit / sec.

    Note: I still fundamentally disagree with the use of Inner Storm over Cyclone. :D
  • To post a comment, please or register a new account.
Posts Quoted:
Reply
Clear All Quotes