Help my DH to MP3 [Update]

  • #1
    Greetings!

    I'm still fairly new to these forums, so keep the acronymes to a bare minimum pls.

    I'm using a Strafe build, with Strafe with Demolition, and Multishot with Suppression Fire.
    I feel the Build is very fun and good up to MP2 or so. Going up a notch would be sweet for 1.0.8.
    However, that doesn't work out too well with what gear I'm currently using.
    You can see more details here.

    http://www.diablopro...Little/16181677

    As you can see, I'm quite reliant upon Night Stalker (and Suppression Fire) to mass generate my Dicipline, so I can reuse Preparation with Punishment as often as possible.
    With 66% Crittical Hit Chance (which is the hightest I can safely get), with additionally 8% to Multishot and Strafe, Nightstalker is very robust.
    I can tend to swap builds when farming, by switching the following skills:

    Impale to Vault with Tumble
    Archery to Tactical Advantage
    Multishot to Rain of Vengeance with Dark Cloud.

    Good and fast runs on MP2.

    Here is the issues:

    -What gear should I be looking for, that doesn't lower my Crit too much that Night Stalker becomes unstable, yet still increases DPS (and defensive stats if possible)?

    - I've only got 30 Dicipline. Quite often, I hit the max, which could have been used later.


    Budget: However long it's going to take me grinding it, but Mempo with 6% Crit Chance is out of the question. For 500 millions, I would have a plan for a good long time. =P

    Otherwise, any advice is welcome.

    Thanks for your time.
  • #2
    http://www.twitch.tv/kamisei/c/2102857 this build works on mp10 as well with your gear, in a group, but obviously with night stalker. Strafe is just so much lower dps and if you move while shooting you're gonna kill faster and move almost as fast so.. yeah.

    Anyways I just realized you only want to go mp3, for which a bola shot or spray of teeth + lightning ball build rocks.
    I have tried a strafe build in the past but noticed right away it's sooooooo slow.
    Just put your movement command on a button you can easily press, hold down your mousebutton and press the movekey in between shots.

    ^ Wotb + br up: live conditions.
  • #3
    You can try my build, I can go super fast in mp3-4.
    The only advice I would give you would be to get Inna's pants, they are best in slot for every class, especially DH and monk, and would give you a clean 20k dps increase, and would try to craft some sick bracers.
    Also, if you want to increse your dps, try to get you dex a bit higher, and not focus only on crit chance
  • #4
    Yeah Nite's build is well suited for mp4 :)

    ^ Wotb + br up: live conditions.
  • #5
    I did run some simulations on some nice Inna's Temperance (just for the lulz). b is base damage, alpha is increased attack speed, A is the primary attribute, c is crittical hit chance, d is bonus critical hit damage.

    b1:=(844+1339)/2+(0)/2:
    beta1:=1.1*1.11:
    alpha1:=46:
    A1:=2273:
    c1:=66:
    d1:=510:
    b2:=(844+1339)/2+(0)/2:
    beta2:=1.1*1.11:
    alpha2:=alpha1+8:
    A2:=A1+192+100-257:
    c2:=c1+1:
    d2:=d1:
    DPS1[crit](b1,A1,beta1,alpha1,c1,d1):=b1*(1+A1/100)*(beta1*(1+alpha1/100))*(1+(c1/100)*(d1/100));
    DPS2[crit](b2,A2,beta2,alpha2,c2,d2):=b2*(1+A2/100)*(beta2*(1+alpha2/100))*(1+(c2/100)*(d2/100));
    DPS2[crit](b2,A2,beta2,alpha2,c2,d2)-DPS1[crit](b1,A1,beta1,alpha1,c1,d1);


    201592.20
    218295.11
    16702.91

    A net sum of 16.7k increase in DPS (2 sockets with +50 Dex in each). :)


    However, when it comes to survivability (without taking dodge into consideration).

    m:=63:
    r1:=585:
    a1:=4101:
    v1:=1059:
    L1:=39:
    r2:=r1-71:
    a2:=a1+42:
    v2:=v1-206:
    L2:=L1:
    s1(r1,a1):=evalf(solve(35*v1*(1+L1/100)-(1-r1/(5*m+r1))*(1-a1/(50*m+a1))*x=0,x));
    s2(r2,a2):=evalf(solve(35*v2*(1+L2/100)-(1-r2/(5*m+r2))*(1-a2/(50*m+a2))*x=0,x));
    s2(r2,a2)-s1(r1,a1);
    35*v1*(1+L1/100);
    35*v2*(1+L2/100);

    338842.68
    252854.98
    -85987.70
    51520.35
    41498.45

    That's a decrease of 26%, with life going from 41.5k to 41.5k.

    Is 16.7k dmg worth a loss of 26%?

    I noticed Kamisei used alot less resistance than I did. Maybe I'm just a Paranoid Parot.
  • #6
    As long as you can pretty much chain goom when you need to, there's no reason to stack so much EHP.
    Just to give you an example, I do the ubers with this exact build, on MP10, and I can survive just fine.
  • #7
    Thanks for the feedback.
  • #8
    "his build works on mp10 as well with your gear, in a group, but obviously with night stalker. Strafe is just so much lower dps and if you move while shooting you're gonna kill faster and move almost as fast so.. yeah."
    The build is finde but i prefer grenades since they procc more nightstalker, do about the same dps (more dps on ghom!)and most important, you can have elearrwot on quiver and grenades on the chest instead just having ele or bola on the quiver.
  • #9
    A quick update:

    I'm a dumbass.
    Inbetween Shadow Power with Gloom, and Strafing, one needs stop for a moment, or else the Life Steal will not be in effect.
    Now that I can actually use it right -- hopefully -- It's much much easier to let go of some EHP.

    How to do that...
    Well, the forums are a reliable source of information - I've pretty much crept into all of you.

    So first of all, alot of you guys are using craftable items. Shouldedrs, Amulet, Gloves and Bracers.

    Shoulders:
    ~300 dex, ~60 Resistance To All Elements, ~100 Vitality.

    Amulet:
    ~200 dex, ~8 Critical Hit Chance, ~80 Critical Hit Damage.
    This gives me 200 (or more) dex, in addition for the Crit Chance and Crit damage approaching the square.

    Gloves:
    ~200 dex, ~7 Increased Attack Speed, ~8 Crit Chance, ~30 Crit Damgage.
    A slight gain in dex, and more attack speed.

    Bracers:
    Either Strongarms with ~250 Dex, ~40 Vitality, 8% To Life, 4.5 Crit Chance or a similiar craft, ~5 Crit Chance.
    A trade-off of 250 dex for 8 attack speed.

    Like wise, I'll have to make adjustments in other slots.

    Helmet:
    New Mempo of Twilight with Socket, 250+ Dex, ~40 Vitality, ~8 Increased Attack Speed, ~75 Resistance to All Elements, ~11% To Life.


    Ring:
    New Natalya's Reflection, with 4+ Crit Chance, ~8 Increased Attack Speed, 150+ Dex
    A trade-off Critcal Hit Damge for attack speed.

    Pants:
    Inna's Temperance, 2 Sockets, 160+ Dex, ~45 Vitality, ~8 Increased Attack Speed, 1 Critical Hit Chance.

    Conclusion:

    Note, the changes are given in rounded numbers - thus accuracy is impossible.


    For DPS:

    b1:=(844+1339)/2+(0)/2:
    beta1:=1.1*1.11:
    alpha1:=46:
    A1:=2284:
    c1:=66:
    d1:=510:
    b2:=(844+1339)/2+(0)/2:
    beta2:=1.1*1.11:
    alpha2:=alpha1+22:
    A2:=A1+850:
    c2:=c1-12:
    d2:=d1+5:
    DPS1[crit](b1,A1,beta1,alpha1,c1,d1):=b1*(1+A1/100)*(beta1*(1+alpha1/100))*(1+(c1/100)*(d1/100)):
    DPS2[crit](b2,A2,beta2,alpha2,c2,d2):=b2*(1+A2/100)*(beta2*(1+alpha2/100))*(1+(c2/100)*(d2/100)):
    DPS2[crit](b2,A2,beta2,alpha2,c2,d2)-DPS1[crit](b1,A1,beta1,alpha1,c1,d1);


    71249.32

    Looks good eh? A net gain in DPS by 71k.

    EHP:

    m:=63:
    r1:=585:
    a1:=3982:
    v1:=1052:
    L1:=39:
    r2:=r1-125:
    a2:=a1-420-775:
    v2:=v1+30:
    L2:=L1+6:
    s1(r1,a1):=evalf(solve(35*v1*(1+L1/100)-(1-r1/(5*m+r1))*(1-a1/(50*m+a1))*x=0,x)):
    s2(r2,a2):=evalf(solve(35*v2*(1+L2/100)-(1-r2/(5*m+r2))*(1-a2/(50*m+a2))*x=0,x)):
    s2(r2,a2)-s1(r1,a1);


    -76447.95

    A loss of 76k in EHP, with disregard for Dodge. Note though, that since I've increased my Dexterity by ~850, the Dodge chance is increased.

    Now I have a long thermed plan: Crafting... Alot. However, I think the trade-off is worth it. It's almost a 1 to 1 trade-off.
    I'll try highter MPs now.
  • #10
    Your amulet is weak. Other than that your gear is better than mine. I too did not play alot in the current patch so i didnt get to crafting shoulders / bracers for my DH which is really bad -.-

  • #11
    Ill help ure dh doing mp3,4,5.. up to 10 by telling u to reroll asap! ;)
    ✯ ✯ ✯ ✯ ✯ YAVYRED ✯ ✯ ✯ ✯ ✯
  • #12
    Quote from Penduliar

    Ill help ure dh doing mp3,4,5.. up to 10 by telling u to reroll asap! ;)


    Worst advice ever...

    DH might be a bit underpowered in terms of MP10 farming at the moment since you need a gear that is like ten times more expensive than that of a barb, but clearly the guy wants to play a DH. Besides what makes you think this will be the situation for a long time? They just said they are going to possibly nerf barbs and wizards. DH is a very fun class to play but it's not for everyone. And not everybody rerolls characters just because they happen to be the flavor of the week. I remember that some of the people in my f list quit or rerolled when they nerfed the Wiz armor thing back when the game got released, had they stuck along with their Wiz they would have had an awesome character today that is capable of farming (quite easily) the whole game on mp 10 provided the right gear (which is relatively cheap).

  • #13
    They wont nerf Monks and u can use most of your gear on a Monk.
    Iv got like the same time played on monk and dh and the monk has +15paragon levels, they are clearly better and its easier to do any mp with it more efficiently.

    Gear aint ten times more expensive (50m for a barb to farm mp10, maybe 5b for a dh thats 100times more money) but 100times :)

    What makes me think that the situation will stay? I tried the ptr and i saw the changes, blizard totally suxx at balancing atm further buffing barb life regen (imagine it at pvp...) like mostly double the values on anything compared to a dh.

    If there wont be any nice changes DH will still suck jay wilsons butt since rapid fire is totally not what people like and enjoy about DH gameplay, even if it can do some okay dps now.

    @Chicken: I dont see your problems, that dh should be able to farm mp3 without any problems if you just went to one of the good builds for that.
    Strafe only works on lower mp, the same as a comparable tempest rush monk.

    If you want a change use innas pants (its without question the top pants for any dex class) and get rid of your crapunis and use crafts instead.
  • #14
    Quote from halfzware



    @Chicken: I dont see your problems, that dh should be able to farm mp3 without any problems if you just went to one of the good builds for that.
    Strafe only works on lower mp, the same as a comparable tempest rush monk.

    If you want a change use innas pants (its without question the top pants for any dex class) and get rid of your crapunis and use crafts instead.


    I did an update somewhere explaining quite the reason for that. I've been a drooling fool in regards to using Shadow Power with Gloom. I imediately went to craft several pieces of equipment, buffing about 42k in DPS (Shoulders, Bracers, Mempo, and Inna's Temperance). Took a damn long time to craft it though, so I've only had a few Demonic Essence runs. I was actually palnning to try out Nitewatcher's build after the crafts, but I can see that he is still 80k DPS ahead of me. Trying it out on MP4 through 6 would be interesting (320 is just sick bro).

    I'm currently following this route for Demonic Essence runs:

    Arreat Core
    Tower of the Damned level 1
    Skycrown Battlements
    Stoneford

    If you got any suggestions for routes, feel free to tell me. :)

    PS: Thanks for all the good feedback. I actually recently had a Monk to 60. He's indeed very good, and I like him alot. The thing is I find using Strafe hillarious. It was the reason I came back to this game, and I intend to use it (with variations ofc). I actually made quite the Green Text about it, but it was overlooked on the forum.

    Quote from "TheDamnChicken" »



    Long story short, after about 6 months, my friend send me a build, and said: "Hey, try this out. It looks amazing".
    Sure thing; Why the H*ll not? It was at this point I realized, I'd never been to Whimsyshire; might aswell try that.
    Here's the deal:

    >I sometimes play my own music instead of in-game music.
    >So I went to Whimsyshire.
    >Build is a Strafe Build; I think of it as dancing.
    >Whimsyshire being what it is, very ... Strange indeed. And ofc gory.
    >MFW dancing through Whimsyshire, splicing ponies with blood everywhere, with William Tell Overture End plays in the background.


    Meh, I hope you get my point. While the Monk is good, I don't see him compete with that memory any time soon. =P
    I'll use Monk for hight MP key farming.

    Sorry for length.
  • #15
    To farm essences the best route is vault of the assassins all over and over or some of the higher mp places like warriors rest (its shit as dh though...u may do that as well with your monk:D)

    "thing is I find using Strafe hillarious. It "
    Tornado barb is as hillarious but three times as efficient:D

    " Thanks for all the good feedback."
    ur welcome
  • #16
    Quote from halfzware

    "his build works on mp10 as well with your gear, in a group, but obviously with night stalker. Strafe is just so much lower dps and if you move while shooting you're gonna kill faster and move almost as fast so.. yeah."
    The build is finde but i prefer grenades since they procc more nightstalker, do about the same dps (more dps on ghom!)and most important, you can have elearrwot on quiver and grenades on the chest instead just having ele or bola on the quiver.


    Yes but that's assuming you would use the torso, instead of Inna's. And I made a choice to use Inna's and inna's pants for the 2 part set bonus and that it's way cheaper than a torso with the same amount of dex. And as an added bonus you have the Reduces damage from melee attacks by 5–6%.with the dps simple dps calculation I figured that, with the current quickest ways to paragon level a DH, I would be best off using ball lightning predominantly and apart from the hatred regen, Inna´s was just a way cheaper way to reach one of a few requirements I thought going faster had. Which is having a high enough dps to 1shot mobs. Getting more would be better since you would be spending less shots, so less hatred. So for me the hatred regen loss from not using Natalya's Embrace would be offset by the dps gain I'd gain using Inna's Vast Expense.

    But I agree that it's a better choice for a build using grenades + nightstalker. But for me that was slower in leveling.

    ^ Wotb + br up: live conditions.
  • #17
    Quote from TheDamnChicken

    A quick update:

    I'm a dumbass.
    Inbetween Shadow Power with Gloom, and Strafing, one needs stop for a moment, or else the Life Steal will not be in effect.
    Now that I can actually use it right -- hopefully -- It's much much easier to let go of some EHP.

    How to do that...
    Well, the forums are a reliable source of information - I've pretty much crept into all of you.

    So first of all, alot of you guys are using craftable items. Shouldedrs, Amulet, Gloves and Bracers.

    Shoulders:
    ~300 dex, ~60 Resistance To All Elements, ~100 Vitality.

    Amulet:
    ~200 dex, ~8 Critical Hit Chance, ~80 Critical Hit Damage.
    This gives me 200 (or more) dex, in addition for the Crit Chance and Crit damage approaching the square.

    Gloves:
    ~200 dex, ~7 Increased Attack Speed, ~8 Crit Chance, ~30 Crit Damgage.
    A slight gain in dex, and more attack speed.

    Bracers:
    Either Strongarms with ~250 Dex, ~40 Vitality, 8% To Life, 4.5 Crit Chance or a similiar craft, ~5 Crit Chance.
    A trade-off of 250 dex for 8 attack speed.

    Like wise, I'll have to make adjustments in other slots.

    Helmet:
    New Mempo of Twilight with Socket, 250+ Dex, ~40 Vitality, ~8 Increased Attack Speed, ~75 Resistance to All Elements, ~11% To Life.


    Ring:
    New Natalya's Reflection, with 4+ Crit Chance, ~8 Increased Attack Speed, 150+ Dex
    A trade-off Critcal Hit Damge for attack speed.

    Pants:
    Inna's Temperance, 2 Sockets, 160+ Dex, ~45 Vitality, ~8 Increased Attack Speed, 1 Critical Hit Chance.

    Conclusion:

    Note, the changes are given in rounded numbers - thus accuracy is impossible.


    For DPS:

    b1:=(844+1339)/2+(0)/2:
    beta1:=1.1*1.11:
    alpha1:=46:
    A1:=2284:
    c1:=66:
    d1:=510:
    b2:=(844+1339)/2+(0)/2:
    beta2:=1.1*1.11:
    alpha2:=alpha1+22:
    A2:=A1+850:
    c2:=c1-12:
    d2:=d1+5:
    DPS1[crit](b1,A1,beta1,alpha1,c1,d1):=b1*(1+A1/100)*(beta1*(1+alpha1/100))*(1+(c1/100)*(d1/100)):
    DPS2[crit](b2,A2,beta2,alpha2,c2,d2):=b2*(1+A2/100)*(beta2*(1+alpha2/100))*(1+(c2/100)*(d2/100)):
    DPS2[crit](b2,A2,beta2,alpha2,c2,d2)-DPS1[crit](b1,A1,beta1,alpha1,c1,d1);


    71249.32

    Looks good eh? A net gain in DPS by 71k.

    EHP:

    m:=63:
    r1:=585:
    a1:=3982:
    v1:=1052:
    L1:=39:
    r2:=r1-125:
    a2:=a1-420-775:
    v2:=v1+30:
    L2:=L1+6:
    s1(r1,a1):=evalf(solve(35*v1*(1+L1/100)-(1-r1/(5*m+r1))*(1-a1/(50*m+a1))*x=0,x)):
    s2(r2,a2):=evalf(solve(35*v2*(1+L2/100)-(1-r2/(5*m+r2))*(1-a2/(50*m+a2))*x=0,x)):
    s2(r2,a2)-s1(r1,a1);


    -76447.95

    A loss of 76k in EHP, with disregard for Dodge. Note though, that since I've increased my Dexterity by ~850, the Dodge chance is increased.

    Now I have a long thermed plan: Crafting... Alot. However, I think the trade-off is worth it. It's almost a 1 to 1 trade-off.
    I'll try highter MPs now.


    Also, think how much the change is relative to your total. The trade-off may be 1-1 but if you start out with a lot of EHP and it's now still enough, then don't even consider the loss.

    ^ Wotb + br up: live conditions.
  • #18
    Oh, I really feel this thread is good for dh.
  • #19
    So my threat resurfaced! I didn't quite expect that. The only currently shown are the new Mempo and the Natalya's Reflection. Before getting those, I did as was adviced, for my Strafe build. Hight attack speed killed it ofc. So I decided to give Rapidfire a go. It looks like this:

    Active Skills Passive Skills
    ​One can ofc argue whether or not this is a good build, but I found it fun and nice to use.
    That, and the new two pieces of gear maintains ~900k unbuffed EHP and ~280k buffed DPS. Swapping the Gem in the helm with a 31% Ruby, and my rare ring with my new sucky Hellfire Ring, I was able solo MP6 at a good speed.


    On a side note. I did some crafting. I got some Shoulders, Gauntlets and an Bracers, each piece giving additionally 10k~15k with abovementioned set-up. Not to mention those Inna's Temperance that boosts almost 19k. I also got a Witching Hour that has some dex, but no all res.

    Running the numbers - because that's what I do:
    --DPS: before

    b1:=(844+1339)/2+(0)/2: --base
    beta1:=1.1*1.11: --weapon speed
    alpha1:=46: --Increase attack speed
    A1:=2839: -- Dex
    c1:=53.5: -- Crit Chance
    d1:=499: -- Crit Damage
    --after
    b2:=(844+1339)/2+(0)/2:
    beta2:=1.1*1.11:
    alpha2:=63:
    A2:=3205:
    c2:=56.5:
    d2:=506:
    DPS1[crit](b1,A1,beta1,alpha1,c1,d1):=b1*(1+A1/100)*(beta1*(1+alpha1/100))*(1+(c1/100)*(d1/100));
    DPS2[crit](b2,A2,beta2,alpha2,c2,d2):=b2*(1+A2/100)*(beta2*(1+alpha2/100))*(1+(c2/100)*(d2/100));
    DPS2[crit](b2,A2,beta2,alpha2,c2,d2)-DPS1[crit](b1,A1,beta1,alpha1,c1,d1);


    209853.63 --before
    277052.45 --after
    67198.82 --difference

    I good 31.2% increase. Now for the EHP.



    --before
    m:=63: --monster lvl
    d1:=0.484: --dodge
    r1:=694: --resist all
    a1:=4016: --armor
    v1:=1118: --vitality
    L1:=63: -- life bonus (%)
    --after
    d2:=0.521:
    r2:=383:
    a2:=4412:
    v2:=979:
    L2:=L1:
    s1:=evalf(solve(35*v1*(1+L1/100)-(1-d1)*(1-r1/(5*m+r1))*(1-a1/(50*m+a1))*x=0,x));
    s2:=evalf(solve(35*v2*(1+L2/100)-(1-d2)*(1-r2/(5*m+r2))*(1-a2/(50*m+a2))*x=0,x));
    s2-s1;
    35*v1*(1+L1/100);
    35*v2*(1+L2/100);



    900729.97 --before
    620260.06 --after
    -280469.91 --difference
    63781 -- life before
    55851 -- life after

    A loss of roughly 31.2%

    Kamisei2400:
    Also, think how much the change is relative to your total. The trade-off may be 1-1 but if you start out with a lot of EHP and it's now still enough, then don't even consider the loss.


    I'd say the trade-off is justified, considering Gloom, not to mention the help of Guardian Torret.
    Trying out the gear changes for this set-up boosts my buffed DPS to whooping 356k. That should hopefully be plenty for MP6 right?



    EDIT: Color fail
  • #20
    Yeah definately that is enough. Can even go mp10 easily. You only really need 200k ehp if all you need is to not get 1shot by regular attacks (non-charge/wind-up animations) imo. After that your survivability is going to come from lifesteal and the diminishing returns are a lot less than just buffing your ehp :) So in the end you will compensate for some ehp loss making the tradeoff really worth it. Quite sick ehp tbh. I never passed 220k for mp10. Though I met another Dh that didn't even have 200k ehp and he was doing great on mp10 too ^^ which is the charm of the class imo, offtopic.

    Edit: Also, the difference between Mp6 and MP10 can just be using lingering fog instead of one of your skills. Together with night stalker instead of perfectionist, you would be able to spam lingering fog on those moments you do get targeted (like when you see the arcane balls from maghda flying at you or zulton kulle's fireball flying your way, savage beast swiping his foots in preparation for a dash, etc) and never die. You'd lose some EHP but if you react on time and use lingering fog you'll find it's overkill to have that much EHP for mp10 :)

    Also you will really never die anymore.

    ^ Wotb + br up: live conditions.
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